View Full Version : Nephew Down.
Just got back from The hospital.
Went out for a quick ride with my nephews. Approaching a gentle bend at about 50-60, slowing to about 35-40. A car was coming the other way and I can only summise but think my nephew grabbed a bit too much front brake.
When I got to him he was unconscious with blood coming from his nose mouth and cheek :(
he was probably out for about 5-10 minutes, but was horrible as he was just lying limp groaning in pain.
Fortunately quite a few people stopped as my other nephew, who was pillion with me was hysterical.
I managed to keep calm and working in a trauma operating theatre new what to do although at the time it didn't feel like it.
The thing that got me was when the air ambulance landed in the field next to us!
His visor came straight off the helmet and I thing this is how he got most of his facial injuries.
Fortunately he is fine apart from a broken wrist, cuts to his face, a lacerated tongue where he bit it, one eye is closed over and his lips are bigger than Leslie Ashes!
My biggest worry is his bike.
Its a Derbi GPR 125R and I can only describe it as having a catastrophic failure.
The frame has snapped completely where the front forks go through.
The petrol tank was about 20 yards behind the bike and the front whhel has come off as the bottom of the forks has sheared.
The problem I have is that I have since found out that these bikes had a recall as the frames were prone to weakness which the manufacturers
state " may compromise safety"
I will post photos up tommorow. The thing that I cant understand is that the fairing is ok, both brake levers are ok, gear lever is ok, lights are ok but the front end has snapped clean off!!!
was wondering from a legal point of view if we had any hope of this being investigated and how we would go about it?
Sorry if this is a really long post, but seeing that state of him and the bike has got me thinking that there was something seriously wrong with the bike?
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 12:29 AM
F##kinell. Sorry to hear this but glad that nothing appears to be permanent.
Were you following at the time then? Did the bike hit anything that you can tell? A catastrophic frame failure could be found as a cause by getting someone to inspect the fracture face, fatigue cracking in alloy leaves a distinctive pattern as the crack propagates through stress cycles before rapid failure begins.
If there was a recall, and you didn't take it in for work doing, I would suspect you have no recourse for it. If the frame failed for no particular reason (i.e not a recall model) then you could have a chance.
davepreston
26-05-09, 12:29 AM
hope the lad makes a full recovery it could have been alot worse
1/ what lid was he wearing as on my offs ( and ive had a few) my shoei's have never lost the visor even when liding down the road face first at 70
2/ lot of photos and email of bike to derbi with comment is your bike supposed to look like this after a 35 mph crash ( give plenty of details) and askfor / no demand a full explenation and offer their engineers to inspect it if they wish, hinting at the fact you intend to get it properly inspected by vosa as you fear a manifacturing fault and appropriate action may be needed by you and the vehicle inspecterite
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 12:33 AM
If you say about 35mph crash then they will say it depends what you rode into!
If the frame failed under braking then that is 100% certain their fault! Like I say, find out what the bike hit, figure out where it went after slide started if any.
Normally, forks will bend before the frame does.
Bluefish
26-05-09, 12:37 AM
sorry to hear this, glad your nephew is not too bad, i would wait to hear his side of the story first to see if faulty bike made him crash or it broke upon crashing.
Jamiebridges123
26-05-09, 12:40 AM
Another one down.. not a good start to the summer... Glad the damage wasn't permanent to him...
Did the frame break, causing the crash, or was the frame broken as a result of the crash. ... from the description, sounds like it's the former....
To be honest the bike doesn't matter, all that matters is your Nephew's OK.
If it was the bike that caused the injury.... well... *cough* SUE *cough*..
Hope it all goes well and all that.
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 12:42 AM
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/images/rapex/2009-w15/0536-09attachedList.pdf
The products pose a risk of injuries because in some cases fatigue cracks have been detected in one of the tubes of the chassis. These cracks become bigger the more the bike is used, and this could result in a complete break leading to an accident.
http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/expand.asp?uniqueID=61D1456A954443848025755C00410B AE&freeText=Blank
Fatigue cracking would explain it if the frame failed suddenly especially given a harder than normal use such as very hard braking.
All depends whether broken frame was cause or effect. It's possible that the frame would show fatigue cracking but that it didn't fail until after the bike was on the deck and hit something heavy.
ThEGr33k
26-05-09, 05:13 AM
Glad the nephew is reletively well... all things considered. :cool:
Sounds to me that the frame dmg is more than likely from hitting something, with the forks sheering off with the front wheel as well, not something that is likely to happen in the case of the frame letting go I dont think. I got a feeling your nephew may not have slowed down at all and the bike hit something hard at quite a reasonable speed. Like's been said, you'll have to see what his side of the story is before you plough in at full steam.
husky03
26-05-09, 05:55 AM
hope he heals quick and well
rictus01
26-05-09, 06:04 AM
likewise I hope your nephew has a speedy recovery.
the visor thing, was probably down to not having it fully closed I'd guess, what lid was it ?
As to the "frame" issue, your discription is a little confusing as the forks don't go threw it.
"The frame has snapped completely where the front forks go through"
was this the yokes; or did it in fact snap the headstock clean off?
On the GPR I believe it's a beam frame which are normally very strong, how ever they do have USD forks so an impact above the wheel would have hit the strongest part of the forks and could well have broken the yoke in some way ?
I appriciate it's not the biggest thing on your mind at present, but when you have a chance, some photos could well help.
Cheers Mark.
Speedy Claire
26-05-09, 06:33 AM
Sorry to hear such awful news.... best wishes to your nephew for a speedy recovery, glad the injuries aren`t worse.
Dave20046
26-05-09, 07:33 AM
glad he's ok must have been distressing seeing the blood. Did his lid not fit right or something? Hope he gets well soon anyway.
Bluewolf
26-05-09, 08:22 AM
Jeez, sorry to hear about the off man, how are you holding up in the aftermath? :(
Owenski
26-05-09, 08:30 AM
Firstly mate, glad your nephews going to be ok.
And you as well it must have been horrible seeing that when in your profession you'll have seen what could have been going wrong suprised the fear didnt scare you stiff, well done that man!
Bike stuff YC has touched on what I'd have pondered. If the forks are bent severly then he obviously impacted something pretty hard anyway but if the forks dont look too bad but the frame has sheared from the headstock then provided the bike hasnt missed the re-call then id be thinking £££££ id be thinking even more £££££ if it has been for the re-call but then still failed anyway.
Did he hit the on coming car? Im not sure if I read it correctly but if he did and the car was coming at 35 as well then dont forget it is an equivilent impact of 70mph and in which case a 125 frame prob would snap in that kind of impact.
joshmac
26-05-09, 09:42 AM
:( Sorry to hear about this mate, glad your nephew's not too bad considering what happened to the bike! :shock:
Definitely worth hearing his description of events if he can remember any of it. You said he passed out.. chances are he won't be able to recall much, though in theory he should be able to remember what happened leading up to it.
I'll let Mark (Rictus) and YC give the technical advice as they know what they're talking about a lot more than myself.
Keep us posted
Sorry to hear about this... hopefully a speedy recovery.
As to bike - gotta be worth pursuing IMO.
Brettus
26-05-09, 10:43 AM
Glad to hear your nephew is OK, hope for the best for the bike but least he is on the road to recovery! best wishes.
Spiderman
26-05-09, 11:57 AM
Speedy recovery to your nephew and thank god you do what you do to know how to keep calm in what must have been a very stressfull situation.
mike_avfc
26-05-09, 12:06 PM
wow, thats a scary one - glad he's ok though.
The first thing Derbi would say is "has the bike been serviced" as that would activate the recall, they may not have written to all registered owners.
secondly, i wouldn't have thought you may have thought about it at the time considering, but if you had pictures from the scene that would help as well.
It's very unlikely they will offer something immediately so be prepared for a long legal situation but you should be covered if he was fully comp for this. and you had taken "all reasonable steps" in the care and maintenance of the bike.
Thanks for all the good wishes from evryone :)
He's just been sent hom from hospital which is a good thing.
He definately didn't hit the car. As Joshmac said cant recall coming off.
The forks look perfectly straight.
The only thing that he hit was a very small mound of soft earth which I thing thrown him from the bike.
I got my words muddled up last night as rictus pointed out. the headstock has broken clean off.
As for the recall we only found out about it after the accident last night.
He's only had the bike about 3 weeks and the chap who he bought it off didn't mention wether it has gone back or not :roll:
Found this on the european consumer affairs webite
"The products pose a risk of injuries because in some cases fatigue cracks have been detected in one of the tubes of the chassis. These cracks become bigger the more the bike is used, and this could result in a complete break leading to an accident."
Not my nephews bike but the frame damage is identical although the plastics and levers etc all are ok!
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7655/dsci0123sv5.jpg
My other nephew has got the photos of the scene. The bike's in my lockup at the moment so am gonna pop down and check it out later
glad he's ok must have been distressing seeing the blood. Did his lid not fit right or something? Hope he gets well soon anyway.
It was a KBC not sure on the exact model. It definately fitted well as I checked it when he first got the bike.
As for the visor, he had it down when I last saw him in my mirrors, and he's certain that it was down when he came off. He can't actually remember coming off but can recall just before.
Dave20046
26-05-09, 02:04 PM
Ahh I see, I'm just wondering how he sustained the facial injuries. visors do crack off in crashes, mine did - I remember hearing it ping off (infact I used it again the other day lol).
the damage to that pictured bike is ridiculous, that really really shouldn't happen.
Owenski
26-05-09, 02:48 PM
Ahh I see, I'm just wondering how he sustained the facial injuries. visors do crack off in crashes, mine did - I remember hearing it ping off (infact I used it again the other day lol).
the damage to that pictured bike is ridiculous, that really really shouldn't happen.
+1
Sickening
If that bloke didnt know and you weren't told then I'd say your Nephew just started on a long road to a big payout.
Lets hope it doesnt put him off riding, and a speedy recovery to the lad.
Dave20046
26-05-09, 02:51 PM
I don't know I'm not sure how big the payout would be as I can't see the chassis weakness being a factor in causing the crash just a stupid result of a crash. Unless it caused further injury than would have been or snapped before he hit the deck then I'm guessing it would be moneys toward a replacement bike ...eventually.
main thing is he's alright though
I don't know I'm not sure how big the payout would be as I can't see the chassis weakness being a factor in causing the crash just a stupid result of a crash. Unless it caused further injury than would have been or snapped before he hit the deck then I'm guessing it would be moneys toward a replacement bike ...eventually.
main thing is he's alright though
Unforunately, exactly what I was thinking. There probably won't be any way of proving wether the damage to the frame happened before or after he hit the deck.
Poor lad's only TPF&T aswell!
Owenski
26-05-09, 03:55 PM
Ah rite do I have the wrong end of the stick?
I thought that nephew had crashed because of the break. in this order:
approaches corner,
brakes hard,
Head stock snapped,
nephew goes down.
and then Ideally it continues in this order:
Nephew gets better,
Nephew gets lawyer (or Ed ;))
Nephew says yes your honour
Nephew gets LOAAADDDSSS A MONEY. (someone post harry enfield image here)
Owenski
26-05-09, 03:57 PM
Unforunately, exactly what I was thinking. There probably won't be any way of proving wether the damage to the frame happened before or after he hit the deck.
Poor lad's only TPF&T aswell!
They will be able to tell what kind of break it was for sure.
The stress fracture would have a differrnt kind of impact on the metal the fatigue would show up.
tbh I should think it would be irrelivent if the re-call was ignored.
plowsie
26-05-09, 04:05 PM
Nephew gets LOAAADDDSSS A MONEY. (someone post harry enfield image here)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00842/money-graphics-2002_842187a.jpg
joshmac
26-05-09, 04:06 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00842/money-graphics-2002_842187a.jpg
Poifect :-D
yorkie_chris
26-05-09, 06:20 PM
They will be able to tell what kind of break it was for sure.
The stress fracture would have a differrnt kind of impact on the metal the fatigue would show up.
tbh I should think it would be irrelivent if the re-call was ignored.
+1 to both
Alpinestarhero
26-05-09, 06:23 PM
Firstly, i wish your nephew a speedy recovery.
Secondly, that frame needs to be inspected. I'm sure a very keen eye can distinguish between faliure due to fatigue and faliure due to impact (i assume a fatigued fracture will exhibit more "stretching" as the material approaches the elastic limit more slowly).
Yikes! I hope your nephew's are both ok - cant have been nice for the lad pillion with you!
I hope you get some recourse with the bike... sounds a bit dodgy!
Thanks again for all the kind comments. Both are ok, and I'm a lot happier knowing that!
Just got to try and figure out where to start in sorting out the bike issue :rolleyes:
Owenski
27-05-09, 08:44 AM
Thanks again for all the kind comments. Both are ok, and I'm a lot happier knowing that!
Just got to try and figure out where to start in sorting out the bike issue :rolleyes:
If its any help;
I'd first call the guy who sold it. Just been casual say you've googled the bike dont mention the accident and you've found out about a re-call. Ask if he was aware of it, ask if he sent it back.
Then I'd report back here and maybe speak to Ed about legals.
plowsie
27-05-09, 09:07 AM
If its any help;
I'd first call the guy who sold it. Just been casual say you've googled the bike (dont mention the accident) and you've found out about a re-call. Ask if he was aware of it, ask if he sent it back.
Then I'd report back here and maybe speak to Ed about legals.
I had to bracket that off because I got sooooo confused then.
Totally agree with Matt here, just be casual, see if he ever heard of it or if he did anything about it...
Question for those who would know a good answer, would checking with Derbi from the reg/frame no if the bike has been recalled?
Poor fella. Hope the Nephew's are ok.
Try contacting Derbi HERE (http://www.derbi.com/uk/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=63) to see if there was a recall and for which frame numbers etc.
Again I'd be very discreet about it and not mention anything about the crash.
A couple of photos at the scene of the accident.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/paiste75/random/Crash10.jpg
The red line shows the tyre marks where he went off the road. You probably cant see, but I've followed the tracks and the only thing that he hit is the slight bump in the mud that is circled.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/paiste75/random/Crash2.jpg
This picture shows just how strong the Derbi is!! forks look straight but frame snapped. All from a 35-40 MPH off on soft earth :confused:
Spoke to the local Derbi dealer today who said they would inspect the frame as long as it was still under warranty. 2 year warranty and it's two years old today :smt009
Close up up frame damage.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/paiste75/random/crash3.jpg
Don't think it is clear on here but the weld on the bottom of the headstock (which is at the top on this photo!) was darker than all the other welds. Would this mean that it had already cracked?
maclovin
27-05-09, 10:21 PM
Close up up frame damage.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj163/paiste75/random/crash3.jpg
Don't think it is clear on here but the weld on the bottom of the headstock (which is at the top on this photo!) was darker than all the other welds. Would this mean that it had already cracked?
would say so any cracks i have encounted at work . a die break caused by one off impact is all the same , but if its a weak fault point that is a long term thing it tends to oxidise causing a darker grey
As long as it's in warranty?! That's ever so nice of them.
Mr Farley
28-05-09, 06:40 AM
I reckon they're just bluffing with regards to it being under warranty. I'm NO expert but I thought everyone was covered by the sale of goods act (or something like that), which says any product bought has to last a reasonable amount of time.
Two years is not a reasonable amount of time for a brand new motorcycle! My brother has claimed loads of refunds/replacementsusing this argument in the last couple of years..............especially with laptops, don't see why a motorcycle should be any different. He did have free legal cover for anything included in his house insurance.......he's had them working like his own personal full time lawyers :smile:.
Like I said I'm no expert but I wouldn't give up yet.
yorkie_chris
28-05-09, 07:58 AM
2 years old today? So it was in warranty at the time of the crash...
Dave20046
28-05-09, 08:00 AM
2 years old today? So it was in warranty at the time of the crash...
that was my thinking, plus you notified the dealers before the warranty expired too so I'd just keep it recorded and push it.
Owenski
28-05-09, 08:57 AM
If the product failed before the end of the warrernty then the damage is still covered by that warrenty. Provided you can prove that you'd be fine I'd have thought and with it been an accident visited by police you can easily prove the date of it.
By the sounds of it the weld has reacted to air contact and become a darker shade of grey. Having now seen what's actually happened in the off I can honestly say, the headstock should NOT have come off. Think MotoCross, the abuse those frames take constantly I know this was a Derbi not a KTM but still its wrong its just plain wrong. that earth bump is no worse than some of the pot holes I've hit and I'd be banging on the Manufacturer CEO's door if that happened to a bike I was riding.
tbh Im horrified to think that other bikes out there could be at risk of the same thing, something needs to be done to make sure the manufacturer get all these bikes back ASAP before someones less lucky than your nephew.
ArtyLady
28-05-09, 09:16 AM
I think it sounds like a case of not being fit for purpose? contact Trading Standards they'll help you. Hope both your nephews are ok :)
littleperson
28-05-09, 10:06 AM
I hope your nephew is recovering well from his accident and you and our other nephew from the trauma of it all.
I've read and looked at the pictures and its horrify the stae the bike is in
My daughter came off her suzuki 125 at abt 40 on a bend sand all that happehed were scratches and a few bent levers - panicked at corner and the speed she was doing and road surface was loose stoen from resurfacing. She was ok shaken and bruised only
My point is her bike was in tact and your nephews definately wasn't! I know other factors of landing and surface etc can affect but speed was roughly the same.
Good luck with pursuing the legal side even if you dont get money it gets to the pinciple of the build quality that could be in dispute and that is important to us all.
Dave20046
28-05-09, 10:39 AM
I hope your nephew is recovering well from his accident and you and our other nephew from the trauma of it all.
I've read and looked at the pictures and its horrify the stae the bike is in
My daughter came off her suzuki 125 at abt 40 on a bend sand all that happehed were scratches and a few bent levers - panicked at corner and the speed she was doing and road surface was loose stoen from resurfacing. She was ok shaken and bruised only
My point is her bike was in tact and your nephews definately wasn't! I know other factors of landing and surface etc can affect but speed was roughly the same.
Good luck with pursuing the legal side even if you dont get money it gets to the pinciple of the build quality that could be in dispute and that is important to us all.
Indeed I've his an audi square on at circa 40mph and I'm still using the bike ;) . 100% undeniability a bad on derbi's part.
Well you could use the Sale of Goods Act I suppose.
But I think you have a better remedy.
I think you'd do better if you complained under the little known Consumer Protection Act 1987, a Brussels-inspired and brilliant piece of legislation.
Linky:
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38253.html
On the right hand side is a link to the UK Government's guide on the Act, which is actually very readable.
Owenski
28-05-09, 01:27 PM
in summary does it mean if you spend money on something that meant to be decent and it turns out to be pants you can spank the monkey who made it?
Well you could use the Sale of Goods Act I suppose.
But I think you have a better remedy.
I think you'd do better if you complained under the little known Consumer Protection Act 1987, a Brussels-inspired and brilliant piece of legislation.
Linky:
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38253.html
On the right hand side is a link to the UK Government's guide on the Act, which is actually very readable.
Thanks Ed. We really didn't know where to start looking!
It really means a lot to me the sense of community on this forum. :)
Thanks again everybody.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's only a small off, but it's been a bit of a wake up call for those involved!!
Spiderman
28-05-09, 02:11 PM
An off is an off and with it comes many things, one of which is realising what a wonderfull caring and sharing place this forum really is :)
Please do keep us updated on nephew and bike, i'm very interested to know if the bike was structuraly faulty.
fastdruid
11-01-10, 05:38 PM
Are there any updates?
Druid
Are there any updates?
Druid
Yes.
My Nephew is a lazy b@st*rd and didn't do a thing about it.
I went to the dealers for him to see about getting the bike checked.
Ed pointed me in the right direction regarding the legal aspect of the bike being fit for pupose etc.
He was a bit knocked about I suppose, but my brother said he would sort it, which he didn't.
It was then decided after they had waited too long that they would strip it and sell the good bits. They didn't!
I stripped the whole bike down for him, sorted out the salvagable parts and labelled them all up. All he had to do was put them on ebay.
guess what, they are still sat in my brothers garage :rolleyes:
Oh well, not my money!!
maviczap
11-01-10, 05:55 PM
Yes.
My Nephew is a lazy b@st*rd and didn't do a thing about it.
I went to the dealers for him to see about getting the bike checked.
Ed pointed me in the right direction regarding the legal aspect of the bike being fit for pupose etc.
He was a bit knocked about I suppose, but my brother said he would sort it, which he didn't.
It was then decided after they had waited too long that they would strip it and sell the good bits. They didn't!
I stripped the whole bike down for him, sorted out the salvagable parts and labelled them all up. All he had to do was put them on ebay.
guess what, they are still sat in my brothers garage :rolleyes:
Oh well, not my money!!
Well you can't say you haven't tried. Still glad he's ok, after reading the first post :thumleft:
Horse water drink not:rolleyes:
Oucch, sorry to hear about this. I hope your nephew makes a speedy recovery.
Oucch, sorry to hear about this. I hope your nephew makes a speedy recovery.
He's fine thanks.
Just a small scar under his eye, a nice imprint of his teeth in his tongue where he bit through it!
The accident was last May. The thread was brought up beacause Squirrel Hunter was possibly after a Derbi gpr. Just wasted to warn him of their recall!
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