View Full Version : TPFT and Smokey Bike
Mr Speirs
09-06-09, 03:43 PM
Does anybody know how insurance works in the event of an uninsured total loss?
Basically I crashed my bike and it was only insured TPFT. I paid for the year when I took out the quote. Obviously now I don't have an SV but does my insurance still run on or do I need to insure another bike for the remainder of the policy to get my NCD at the end of it?
Cheers. Chris.
Jamiebridges123
09-06-09, 03:51 PM
If you wrote it off you can just not tell them. They don't NEED to know, I guess. Just register it written off with the DVLA. If you cancel your insurance you will lose your NCB, you can just leave it and let it run and you'll recieve the NCB at the end of the year.
Luckypants
09-06-09, 04:04 PM
Can you not claim for the fire that destroyed your bike?
just change it to your new bike, you don't *really* need to tell them.
Mr Speirs
09-06-09, 04:44 PM
Can you not claim for the fire that destroyed your bike?
Tried and failed.
The bike only caught on fire because I crashed it.
So if I have already told the insurance company the bike set on fire and isn't salvageable they should still be an insurance policy anyway which I can leave to run until July for my no claims??
Jamiebridges123
09-06-09, 04:45 PM
Yes you can leave it running, you haven't claimed so they cannot hike your premium.
madness
09-06-09, 04:52 PM
Obviously the bike is a right off.
Can you insure a right off?
Doesn't the small print say something about roadworthy?
I hope I'm wrong, but I think your insurance policy will now be void.
kwak zzr
09-06-09, 05:08 PM
Yes you can leave it running, you haven't claimed so they cannot hike your premium.
its your driving/riding history you have to tell them.
kwak zzr
09-06-09, 05:08 PM
you pay for 12 months and thats what you get, your policy still runs.
Jamiebridges123
09-06-09, 05:13 PM
its your driving/riding history you have to tell them.
oops?
madness
09-06-09, 05:14 PM
If you don't declare it as a write off, then you should be okay. After all you can still insure a bike that is off the road being repaired. Just wait until your insurance is due for renewal and the decide to write it off
kwak zzr
09-06-09, 05:15 PM
when i wrote mine off and claimed my policy still run i just swaped it to the new bike.
Bluepete
09-06-09, 05:34 PM
I would just tell the insurance company about the crash and ask them about covering the next bike on the same policy. They are the only ones who know for sure.
Plus, if you don't disclose everthing, they can invalidate any policy you have with them, and then you could have trouble getting insurance in the future.
JW
I say go pick up whats left of it and leave it in your garage......... if your not claiming they cant dertermine it as a write off....therefore the lump of (molten) metal which is effectively still a bike (Kind of) you may feel inclined to spend some time repairing (yeah right ;)) so you still want insured....so let it run until the end.
Its still a bike, its still yours, its not been claimed against so is not a write off, and is still in your possession so the insurance is still valid.
Wait for the insurance to lapse after 12 months, get your NCD, scrap ithe metal, inform the DVLA....job done.
454697819
09-06-09, 07:34 PM
Tried and failed.
The bike only caught on fire because I crashed it.
So if I have already told the insurance company the bike set on fire and isn't salvageable they should still be an insurance policy anyway which I can leave to run until July for my no claims??
you can claim, doesnt matter how the fire started your covered...
I know I checked with mine several times, try again as I belive very strongly you can claim....
thefallenangel
09-06-09, 08:24 PM
dont scrap it leave it in the garage til july, then scrap.
petevtwin650
09-06-09, 10:08 PM
you can claim, doesnt matter how the fire started your covered...
I know I checked with mine several times, try again as I belive very strongly you can claim....
Wouldn't that be tempting people who have only insured their bikes TPFT to "let" the bike catch fire after a spill? I would have thought the insurance companies would be wise to that.
Normally I would say let the insurance run, as I did after we broke the Sv, but as you've informed them of the total loss I don't know. Why not ask the insurers? Best to know now, than find out your new policy is void if, god forbid, you need to claim again.
Wouldn't that be tempting people who have only insured their bikes TPFT to "let" the bike catch fire after a spill? I would have thought the insurance companies would be wise to that.
.
No that's completely different that's arson! FFS!
Why not say your bike was stolen if you crash it?
I also feel very strongly that you should receive a full payout Britney.
But it depends what your policy says exactly - what does it say? & don't ask your insurance co. :rolleyes: find out for yourself & tell them!
petevtwin650
10-06-09, 07:02 AM
No that's completely different that's arson! FFS!
Why not say your bike was stolen if you crash it?
How can they prove it's Arson after the fuel has leaked out and the bikes slid along the road, but getting a bike away from a crash scene and disposing of it would be too difficult.
I'm not for one moment advocating either of those courses of action Stu, just saying that if fire after a crash meant it was covered I would expect there to be many more claims on TPFT, and insurance companies ain't that naive.
Copy of my Insurance book. They will argue that the fire damage was to a worthless bike that had been crashed.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/petevtwin650/Insurancebook.jpg
Dave20046
10-06-09, 07:42 AM
If you wrote it off you can just not tell them. They don't NEED to know, I guess. Just register it written off with the DVLA. If you cancel your insurance you will lose your NCB, you can just leave it and let it run and you'll recieve the NCB at the end of the year.
I'd assume you might need to notify your insurers at some point ms speirs just incase you get a massive bill from the guardians of the snake pass' armcos? :scratch:
Any idea where you stand with that yet? I'm pretty sure if you just leave it but don't need to claim you should still get your NCD. It's actually claiming from the policy that fecks your NCD not losing your wheels
Dave20046
10-06-09, 07:47 AM
its your driving/riding history you have to tell them.
They ask you if you've had an accident in the past 5 years surely that's open to interpretation. I interpret it to mean claims (or surely it wouldn't be any of their business). Any way speirsy if they ask you specifically about this accident and why you hadn't reported it just tell them it wasn't an accident it was a cleverly devised plan to warm your hands, no other road users were involved and you didn't need to claim...
454697819
10-06-09, 08:38 AM
Wouldn't that be tempting people who have only insured their bikes TPFT to "let" the bike catch fire after a spill? I would have thought the insurance companies would be wise to that.
Normally I would say let the insurance run, as I did after we broke the Sv, but as you've informed them of the total loss I don't know. Why not ask the insurers? Best to know now, than find out your new policy is void if, god forbid, you need to claim again.
correct,
but then whats the point of having the fire part of the policy, they could claim it was arson everytime by you...?
petevtwin650
10-06-09, 09:00 AM
correct,
but then whats the point of having the fire part of the policy, they could claim it was arson everytime by you...?
Well bikes can catch fire without having crashed. Ducatis have a bit of a reputation for it because of the open airbox and quick release fuel lines, plus irrefutable arson by a 3rd party.
SoulKiss
10-06-09, 09:02 AM
The thing too look at with respects to the fire claim is what would the damage have been if it HAD NOT caught Fire ?
Seems to me that the entire rear end, so the swing arm, tyres, etc would have been fine.
Chances are the engine would have been fine.
I dont know what the mechanical rather than fire damage to the front was, but if it was a lowside then to rest under armco then damage could have been minimal.
Having lowsided AND high-sided my SV in the past, the damage was not that bad, Jambo did similar to his ZX6 in Spain and was able to ride it home.
It seems to me that most of the damage was through fire, so I would at least attempt to make a claim - they can only say no, you are not covered.
petevtwin650
10-06-09, 09:07 AM
It seems to me that most of the damage was through fire, so I would at least attempt to make a claim - they can only say no, you are not covered.
Wouldn't they value the bike after the crash but before the fire. So front end damage, some plastics and obviously tank as that split before the fire. So what would that value be? £500 quid generously. Take off Mr speirs excess plus increased premiums for a few years. Wouldn't be any profit and most probably a loss.:(
SoulKiss
10-06-09, 09:12 AM
Wouldn't they value the bike after the crash but before the fire. So front end damage, some plastics and obviously tank as that split before the fire. So what would that value be? £500 quid generously. Take off Mr speirs excess plus increased premiums for a few years. Wouldn't be any profit and most probably a loss.:(
True, there is that :)
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 09:37 AM
It seems to me that most of the damage was through fire, so I would at least attempt to make a claim - they can only say no, you are not covered.
And 'No you are not covered' was the reply.
I called them on the monday to report the accident and asked them a few questions about claiming etc and they said that I wouldn't be covered under the fire part of the policy.
Right so I think I need to phone bennetts to make sure my insurance is still running.
Basically at the minute the bike has been scrapped. I couldn't leave it any longer as after just 5 days it cost me £218.50 for recovery, storage and scrappage. Had to give them my logbook. So it doesn't exsist anymore.
They ask you if you've had an accident in the past 5 years surely that's open to interpretation. I interpret it to mean claims (or surely it wouldn't be any of their business).
It is open to interpretation, just be aware that if they catch you lying your policy is invalidated, you get no refund, and they may press fraud charges (although not very likely).
There is a difference between I fell off, no damage so didn't bother reporting it (no record of accident exists) and bike was written off when I crashed into a plod car at 120 (there will probably be a record for that!).
How can they prove it's Arson after the fuel has leaked out and the bikes slid along the road, but getting a bike away from a crash scene and disposing of it would be too difficult.
I'm not for one moment advocating either of those courses of action Stu, just saying that if fire after a crash meant it was covered I would expect there to be many more claims on TPFT, and insurance companies ain't that naive.
Copy of my Insurance book. They will argue that the fire damage was to a worthless bike that had been crashed.
Yup I also dug out a couple of my old policy booklets too & they have very similar wording - i.e. they cover Fire without any exclusion as to how it started.
You raise a very good point & helps me explain better what Iwas going to say anyway.
Britney you need to make sure you only claim for fire damage not accident damage.
So accident damage would be a dent & rupture to the tank and scratches down the side.
All te other fire damage you should claim for.
Just because I bike has been crashed, does very much not mean that it is worthless!
I think you will find that fire after an accident is pretty rare that is why ins. co.s are willing to cover te risk for not much more than TPO cover which is a completely different class of cover.
Disposing of a bike after a crash and reporting it stolen would not always be very difficult. Just as opening the petrol tank & dropping a match. The reason people don't do either is they could go to prison!
yorkie_chris
10-06-09, 11:57 AM
I also feel very strongly that you should receive a full payout Britney.
I'd say not. If you want cover for an accident that's your own fault, pay for FC cover!
Wouldn't they value the bike after the crash but before the fire. So front end damage, some plastics and obviously tank as that split before the fire. So what would that value be? £500 quid generously. Take off Mr speirs excess plus increased premiums for a few years. Wouldn't be any profit and most probably a loss.:(
Yup, the bike before the fire was worth nothing. I would imagine they would consider the value to include all the bent bits at suzuki prices.
muffles
10-06-09, 12:07 PM
I think it's technically illegal to have insurance on a bike that no longer exists (i.e. stolen, or scrapped). I am pretty sure I asked this at one point, probably when my bike got stolen. Maybe I was given incorrect information and they just didn't like it or something - not beyond the realms of possibility.
If it were perfectly OK, you could insure loads of imaginary vehicles and potentially claim for all sorts of things, I imagine...?
Anyway what you could do, if you a) don't have the original bike/frame any more, and b) can't put the Duke on the current policy, is find a cheap frame/non-runner/etc off Ebay and insure that (in your garage/garden/whatever). Obviously pick something that doesn't cost any more than an SV!
Re: insurance companies & your record, again technically they want to know any incident at all (often they refer to them as incidents to cover everything I guess!). But some 'incidents' clearly can never be traced/found out about, so no need to worry about those.
find a cheap frame/non-runner/etc off Ebay and insure that (in your garage/garden/whatever). Obviously pick something that doesn't cost any more than an SV!
Any old curvy should fit in that category :mrgreen:
I'm of the opinion that the insurance can't be valid anymore, there is no bike to hold the policy against. Can't you just cancel the insurance for the rest of the year, get a percentage of the money back, accept that you won't have another year's no claims but put any refund against the difference to the new policy for the Duke? Were you relying on the extra year's no claims on the SV to be able to insure the Duke?
Good luck with it mate :)
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 01:33 PM
Any old curvy should fit in that category :mrgreen:
I'm of the opinion that the insurance can't be valid anymore, there is no bike to hold the policy against. Can't you just cancel the insurance for the rest of the year, get a percentage of the money back, accept that you won't have another year's no claims but put any refund against the difference to the new policy for the Duke? Were you relying on the extra year's no claims on the SV to be able to insure the Duke?
Good luck with it mate :)
Yeah pretty much relying on the years NCD.
Maybe I can borrow a bike for just over a month to insure until the policy runs out. I won't ride it or probably even keep it with me just summat to keep the policy going. Or I might see how much they'll charge to put the ducati on the remainder. But I don't even think they'll touch me with the duke to be honest.
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 01:41 PM
Please excuse me while I do a little dance!!! :)
Just called Bennetts. The guy advised me that I should keep the policy running until July and then I will have a years no claims! I double checked that I didn't need to have a bike on the policy for it to carry on, he said there is a two month period where the insurance still runs, if I don't register a bike to the policy it then automatically cancels after 2 months but because my policy runs out on July the 25th it falls within the 2 month window so it won't affect me.
I am a happy man.
Please excuse me while I do a little dance!!! :)
Just called Bennetts. The guy advised me that I should keep the policy running until July and then I will have a years no claims! I double checked that I didn't need to have a bike on the policy for it to carry on, he said there is a two month period where the insurance still runs, if I don't register a bike to the policy it then automatically cancels after 2 months but because my policy runs out on July the 25th it falls within the 2 month window so it won't affect me.
I am a happy man.
Result! Good job the crash wasn't the weekend before then cos that would have been outside the two month window wouldn't it?!
Good stuff \\:D/
SoulKiss
10-06-09, 02:09 PM
Please excuse me while I do a little dance!!! :)
Just called Bennetts. The guy advised me that I should keep the policy running until July and then I will have a years no claims! I double checked that I didn't need to have a bike on the policy for it to carry on, he said there is a two month period where the insurance still runs, if I don't register a bike to the policy it then automatically cancels after 2 months but because my policy runs out on July the 25th it falls within the 2 month window so it won't affect me.
I am a happy man.
Cool, but did you ask him to confirm that to you in writing?
I know I would be ringing them back to ask for just that.
But good news, was thinking of offering you a loan of my SV for insurance purposes, but I think that with a SW9 (Brixton/Stockwell/Kennington) postcode they would want a chunk of premium for that one.......
yorkie_chris
10-06-09, 02:09 PM
Where is SV now then?
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 02:42 PM
Gone to SV heaven.
yorkie_chris
10-06-09, 02:54 PM
OK then where is the molten pile of slag with a VIN plate somewhere in it?
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 02:56 PM
Dunno. Just told the recovery people to scrap it. It was a Glossop Motors in Glossop.
Jamiebridges123
10-06-09, 04:08 PM
Please excuse me while I do a little dance!!! :)
Just called Bennetts. The guy advised me that I should keep the policy running until July and then I will have a years no claims! I double checked that I didn't need to have a bike on the policy for it to carry on, he said there is a two month period where the insurance still runs, if I don't register a bike to the policy it then automatically cancels after 2 months but because my policy runs out on July the 25th it falls within the 2 month window so it won't affect me.
I am a happy man.
Nice nice. :D just don't go ruining it next policy year. :smt120
I am a happy man.
A £2Grand payout would be worth more than a years NCB.
I can't believe you're giving in so easily. Have you contacted a solicitor?
Dave20046
10-06-09, 05:27 PM
A £2Grand payout would be worth more than a years NCB.
I can't believe you're giving in so easily. Have you contacted a solicitor?
I don't see how this could be blamed on anyone else for a tpft policy I'm afraid. Anyway depending on speirsys circumstances that is incorrect. I had a claim and it cost me almost 2k for the first year so bearing in mind claims hike premiums for atleast 3 years it wouldn't have been better for me to claim.
Why do you need to blame it on someone else? :smt102
Dave20046
10-06-09, 05:30 PM
Why do you need to blame it on someone else? :smt102
Unless you're referring to the fire damage business, due to the nature of third party insurance you won't receive a penny for your own vehicle unless someone else is at fault.
It is open to interpretation, just be aware that if they catch you lying your policy is invalidated, you get no refund, and they may press fraud charges (although not very likely).
There is a difference between I fell off, no damage so didn't bother reporting it (no record of accident exists) and bike was written off when I crashed into a plod car at 120 (there will probably be a record for that!).
Exactly. But like I said, no other parties involved.
Mr Speirs
10-06-09, 09:26 PM
A £2Grand payout would be worth more than a years NCB.
I can't believe you're giving in so easily. Have you contacted a solicitor?
Even if they paid out it would only be valued against a crashed bike so a £2k payout isn't going to be likely.
Oh well if you'd rather have a year's NCB than claim for a total loss. :smt102
Can't see the point of paying for more than TPO ins. then.
muffles
11-06-09, 07:31 AM
Oh well if you'd rather have a year's NCB than claim for a total loss. :smt102
Can't see the point of paying for more than TPO ins. then.
It would only be against the crashed bike though, I think that's the prob - so they would value the bike generously at £500, less his excess - so he gets maybe a couple of hundred? (don't know his excess)
I gotta say I wouldn't bother for that...if it was a question of getting pre-accident value back, then maybe, but pre-fire only doesn't seem worth it.
due to the nature of third party insurance you won't receive a penny for your own vehicle unless someone else is at fault.
I thought that the nature of third party insurance was that you didn't receive a penny from your own insurance for your vehicle even if someone else was at fault. If you are TPO or TPFT and involved in a collision with a third party (that's their fault) you will claim off their insurance. Your insurance will only cover the damage to their vehicle / them if it is your fault.
Your TPO or TPFT covers you for nothing to do with accidents, only the fire or theft part. And I would assume (same as Mr Speirs has) that it has obviously not been stolen and the fire element is surely to do with if it spontaneously combusts outside your house / in your garage or if someone sets it on fire. It can't be covered for a fire resulting from a crash that is your own fault (sorry Britney :p).
Mr Speirs
11-06-09, 09:12 AM
It can't be covered for a fire resulting from a crash that is your own fault (sorry Britney :p).
Yup totally agree with you. It isn't the insurers responsibilty.
Dave20046
11-06-09, 09:34 AM
its your driving/riding history you have to tell them.
I thought that the nature of third party insurance was that you didn't receive a penny from your own insurance for your vehicle even if someone else was at fault. If you are TPO or TPFT and involved in a collision with a third party (that's their fault) you will claim off their insurance. Your insurance will only cover the damage to their vehicle / them if it is your fault.
Your TPO or TPFT covers you for nothing to do with accidents, only the fire or theft part. And I would assume (same as Mr Speirs has) that it has obviously not been stolen and the fire element is surely to do with if it spontaneously combusts outside your house / in your garage or if someone sets it on fire. It can't be covered for a fire resulting from a crash that is your own fault (sorry Britney :p).
Sorry yeah your right I meant you wouldn't see any money unless it's someone elses fault and in which case if they're insured you'd claim from their policy not your own anyway. Maybe I should have elaborated.
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