Moral Dilemma [Archive] - SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

Lissa

12-06-09, 04:44 PM

Work has been a bit quiet just lately, and today the owner came in and held a meeting to point out that costs will have to be reduced. Normally, this would just mean redundancies, but instead he is suggesting we all go on to a 4 day week for July, and possibly August.

For the 4 day week thing to go ahead, everyone in the factory would have to agree.................and this is my dilemma!

I am 99.9% certain my job would be safe, and going on to a 4 day week and losing £250+ a month would be a serious finacial problem for me. However, I would hate for anyone to lose their job too, especially as the job market is so bad around here at the moment.

We have been given the weekend to think things over and have to vote on Monday about the 4 day week. I really am in a quandry about this. If you were in this situation, how would you vote?

Jamiebridges123

12-06-09, 04:51 PM

Tbh, if you are sure your job would be safe, you should firstly look out for your family and you, and everyone else second... £250 a month at a minimum LOSS is a F#CK load of money.

I know it sounds....REALLY harsh but needs must, and in the workplace other people shaft you all the time, so you have to look out for yourself.

I'd vote to keep the 5 day week.. but that's just me.. I'm not selfish but if I had a house (I assume you have a partner, house, kids maybe?) to run and bills to pay, f#ck'em

Seggons

12-06-09, 05:23 PM

The way I'd look at it is:

Could you carry on day to day without that money? If so then vote for the 4 day week.
If you think the effects of loosing that money are too great (ie life would turn into a bit of a struggle) then you have no option but to vote for the 5 day week.

Another thing to consider could you not barter with your boss about getting a pay rise? I know that sounds strange but let me explain. If you was to go with a 4 day week can he/they not pay you a little bit more so your not loosing so much money?

Whatever happens I hope things work out for you. :)

Jabba

12-06-09, 05:44 PM

You have identified the issues as far as I can tell.

Unfortunately, I think that only you and Pete can answer this as only you know your own personal cirumstances.

So no opinion from me I'm afraid. Good luck, I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you.

DavieSV

12-06-09, 05:49 PM

My grandad once said to me "If you are paid to do a job, do it to the best of your ability, even if you think you arn't paid enough"
That is what I do. I see people swinging the lead, and trying to do as little as possible.

I was faced with the same dilemma,
I voted NO to the 4 day week as I would not be able to be civil to these people trying there hardest not to work, while I would still do my best.

madness

12-06-09, 05:52 PM

I'm pretty much with Seggons on this. If you can still cover living cost on 4 days, then vote for 4 days, otherwise vote for 5. My boss was recently made redundant to cut costs. I and others would have happily took a wage cut save his job, but that was not an option. I don't agree with the 'F*ck everyone else' attitude, that's why our society stinks. I find that you get what you give in this life.

DavieSV

12-06-09, 06:06 PM

If all the members of our team had pulled their weight, I would have voted for the four day week, but I am not having my daughter and sons go without to "carry" some one who is basically taking the Pi$$.

The person in question once said to me "it's a clever man who goes to work and gets paid for doing nothing" I don't agree with that.

Every work place is different and it is not an easy decision to make. I'm just letting you into some of the many reasons I came to the decision that I did.

shonadoll

12-06-09, 06:18 PM

God that's a hard one, Lissa. I can sort of see both sides, tbh. In our work there are those who don't work hard, take frequent sickies, arrive late, let others down, and it would seriously chap my hide to take a hit for them, especially when they won't do holiday cover, etc.

If I depended on the money, to be honest, I'd vote no.

zsv650

12-06-09, 06:31 PM

we are on a 4 day week at work now - short hour's aswell the majority of us felt this was the way to go as we didnt wan't people out of job's especially when the prospect of getting another is slim to none we have managed to get by and have adjusted our spending to compensate.

kwak zzr

12-06-09, 06:35 PM

everywheres cutting back :( we have 10 VR's on our early shift and anyone who wants a "buy down" of hours can.

ridelikeaturtle

12-06-09, 07:09 PM

I just got a performance bonus at work, after I was made redundant (job ends at the end of this month) after 9 years.

If you work in a good company with a nice working environment in a solid team where success is measured on the success of the team and the company, then consider that in your decision. (Probably go w/the 4-day week.)

But if you work in a place where there is an unhealthy competition between team members (which is often fostered by the company...), or you aren't appreciated for the work you do (you are "carrying" your coworkers), then definitely go for the 5-day week.

Good luck.

seedy100

12-06-09, 07:22 PM

I think the first question I would ask myself is; are there any people in the organisation who, to coin a phrase, are wasters.

If there are is there a chance that they could be "removed" by redundency. If there is I would vote no and hope thay they are targeted. This way the orgainsation is stronger and the option of a 4 day week is still avaliable in the future if things get worse.

Otherwise the best option is probably to try to retain the most skills in the organisation, by keeping all of the people.

For me it would depend on how confident I was that the management could arrange their redundency selection criteria to target the right people.

I have been in the position managing a couple of redundency excersies in both cases one of the option of a 4 day week was requested by the unions, but turned down, mainly so that some dead wook could be removed.

Speedy Claire

12-06-09, 07:59 PM

What an awful situation for you to be in! I think you have to go with your gut feelings on this one. Gut feelings for me would be "can I afford to lose that much money and if I do am I still going to comfortably be able to meet my monthly outgoings".

If you decide to vote against the 4 day week don`t feel guilty, you are only being asked your preference. Best of luck hun x

Ruffy

12-06-09, 08:22 PM

Call me a cynic if you like, but:
1. It seems that the boss has abdicated from making a mangement decision and placed all the stress and angst onto the employees. He's not gathering information about the impact of each option, he's asking you to make the decision. Coward!
2. Does a 4 day week mean the company doesn't have to pay redundancy settlements?
3. What are the real longer term prospects for the company?

Fair point made earlier about being clear about redundancy criteria - you don't want to put your job at any more risk. However, you are an employee, not the employer. You do not have responsibility for keeping your co-workers in employment. So, feel guilt free about believing in the value of yourself and your services to the company. If you cannot afford (with ease) to take the pay cut, and the company is still viable on lower numbers, then I say you should vote for continued 5 day working.

ref. 3, my worry would be what happens in a couple of months: Is it just hope that business will pick up following a short term balance sheet problem or is this the beginning of the end and further cuts might follow?

12-06-09, 09:06 PM

I have been in a similar situation and trust me dont believe any of it.

We went into a 90 day consultation period for a 12.5% pay cut at my work, this was to avoid redundancies.

The majority agreed to the paycut............however within 1 week of the end of the consultation period the first round of redundancies has already come and 25 people have gone......their payout was based on the 12.5% less salary they agreed to 1 week earlier.

Those who did not agree to the paycut had their contracts terminated, they were offered new contracts at a 15% paycut and told to except it or leave.

For me.....I firmly believe you have to look after number one....yourself, like you I knew I was 110% safe and could play the game.

I did not agree to the paycut because I make the company 500% profit on my costs whilst other people sit around doing absolutely nothing, I also simply could not afford it. I looked for another job and got one with a 30% pay increase and a better car.

Amusingly as soon as I resigned the company were willing to give me a payrise and whatever else they had to do to retain me...yet weeks earlier the paycut was across the board no exceptions.

So for me there is no dilemma, Lissa you have to look after yourself...... everybody is in a different situation and will view it differently though I guess.

GeneticBubble

12-06-09, 09:34 PM

Tbh, if you are sure your job would be safe, you should firstly look out for your family and you, and everyone else second

+1

sarah

12-06-09, 10:44 PM

What does the union say?

steveg

13-06-09, 06:59 AM

Hi Lissa,
I work in a small team , who all work really hard and we all get on well, therefore I would take the 4 day week , however depends if you work with a bunch of wasters.
I would also take this as a sign to dust off my cv and look at the job market in case this is the first sign your company is in troube.
These are difficult times , hope things work out well for you.

Cheers Steveg

Tara

13-06-09, 07:35 AM

what a horrid situation Lissa, i agree with Claire go with your gut feeling - with the vote be anonymous?

plowsie

13-06-09, 08:12 AM

Difficult situation Lissa. Look after ones-self and significant others. £250 is a lot of miles on the bike especially in July and August, I'm not saying the 250 will affect that, but that's one way of looking at it.

Sorry to see its come to that. I wish you all the best with whatever decision you make. Dad had to make a decision whether he could take £9k as a voluntary redundancy offer from Aston Martin or stick out not getting made redundant, if he got made redundant it would have been significantly less. Luckily he chose right and didn't get the chop but lost his managerial job and has had to take a £250 paycut.

Times is tough and like I say, I wish you all the best Lissa.

V-twin

13-06-09, 08:51 AM

I would go with the 4 day week, it's a better option than being laid off. I got laid off in March this year as well as the company going onto a 4-day week. As others have said in this thread if there are people who don't work in the company then they'll be let go when the time comes. It's quite a process reduncancy, but it has to be done fairly. At my place they used 'behaviour at work' amongst other factors for redundancy selection and some guys left before they were told as they knew they'd be on minus points after round one.

I'll agree it's not a nice place to be when there is talk of redunancy but there are worse things in life that can happen. Having been through the mill that's what I now think. On the plus side it has given me time to volunteer in the community and I have to say....I wish I'd started sooner!

Get your CV to recruiters, it is better to take pro-active action at a time like this. A friend from my last place of work started at the same time as me and after he saw me laid off he sent his CV off as he didnt want the same fate and a week later he got a new job that was a bit more secure.

Lissa

15-06-09, 05:39 AM

Thanks for your replies everyone. I've spent the weekend trying not to worry or think about it, and succeeded pretty well!

If I could be sure that the ones made redundant would be the lazy, lead-swinging, mickey-takers, I would definitely vote against the 4 day week. Sadly, it's more likely to be the newer guys who will go, and they are the ones who work hard. The idle bunch have all been there for a long time, and think they are un-touchable. :rolleyes:

Having discussed it with Pete we've decided that we could cope with me doing a 4 day week for a month or two, it would just mean cutting back on doing stuff on the bike. A horrible thought, but something we could live with.

It probably won't happen though, as I'm almost sure that at least one person will vote against the 4 day week (the same long-time wasters mentioned above) so I guess I'll just have to wait and see how the vote goes this week. I know which way I'll vote, and my conscience at least will be clear.

sarah

15-06-09, 06:55 AM

Good for you Lissa.

Lissa

01-07-09, 05:23 PM

Just an update.

The four day week was voted against, so we knew that meant redundancies. I went off to Scotland on friday and returned today to find that 3 people had gone. I'm delighted to report that the three who went WERE the time-wasters, and the company used common sense and didn't get rid of new people who worked hard.

Mr Speirs

01-07-09, 05:25 PM

That's good news. I hate when the wrong people get shafted.

gruntygiggles

01-07-09, 05:29 PM

That's good news Lissa. I too hate when good people go, leaving wasters behind just because of the "last to come, first to leave" mentality that some bosses have.

Sounds like it's all worked out as you wanted!

gruntygiggles

01-07-09, 05:30 PM

And if you're not going to be doing as much on the bike, make sure Larry still feels the love xxx

Jamiebridges123

01-07-09, 05:32 PM