View Full Version : I need some hellp please!!!!
tj ready
13-06-09, 07:56 AM
Hi,
welll i got stoped by the police last night for doing 35mph round 2 rounderbouts in my 1993 rover mini cooper:smt022, aparently i was not in controll of my car and my tyer's where screching, but when i explaned that i had not herd the screching from my tyers and i was in complet controle of my car. they then acused me off haveing my music on so load i oversly did not hear it, but my music was not on loud other wise i would not of herd my gear box ratiling, they then proceded to give me a section 59 for not being in controle of my car they then impounded my car gave me a 7 day wonder. is there eny chance of me going to court to get points or a fine ?? the resion is i have allredy got 3 points for an ilegal u tern (another soft spot :() and if i get another 3 points i will lose my licence my job my mum and dad sead they wont let me live at home eny more and my girlfrend proberly wont talk to me for a long time and trust me i rearly dont need eny of it. eny sort of advice would be more than aprechiated. thanks agen tj.
Jamiebridges123
13-06-09, 08:05 AM
What was the speed limit of said roundabouts?
59 Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which-
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3) Those powers are-
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless-
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5) Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if-
(a) the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b) the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
(6) A person who fails to comply with an order under subsection (3)(a) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7) Subsection (3)(c) does not authorise entry into a private dwelling house.
(8) The powers conferred on a constable by this section shall be exercisable only at a time when regulations under section 60 are in force.
(9) In this section-
"driving" has the same meaning as in the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52);
"motor vehicle" means any mechanically propelled vehicle, whether or not it is intended or adapted for use on roads; and
"private dwelling house" does not include any garage or other structure occupied with the dwelling house, or any land appurtenant to the dwelling house.
Excuse the long info.
It seems like it's your word against theirs, unfortunately theirs tends to be stronger. Best you can do is stand your ground. They would need some sort of proof, such as video footage of the like. Surely them saying you couldn't hear your tyres from your stereo is a bit of a shot in the dark, as it were? Hope that when you collect your vehicle they'll let you off with a caution or the like.
tj ready
13-06-09, 08:15 AM
Hay, thanks for the reply the speed limit was a 50mph thanks tj
Jamiebridges123
13-06-09, 08:18 AM
Then you weren't speeding and you should stick to your guns, I'd say! Seems like they had a bad day and were making it a pain in what you sit on for ya!
Tbh it's a bit far fetched.. They can hear your tyres squeal from inside their patrol car, what should be a safe distance away (so call it 15m), above any conversation they may have and above their radio chatter, all crap IMO.
tj ready
13-06-09, 08:24 AM
I no its stupid, but hay what can i do :confused: if i do lose my licance im not going to find another job eny time soon. thanks tj
CoolGirl
13-06-09, 09:28 AM
sorry, but if you were misbehaving and drawing yourself to the attention of the police, then what on earth makes you think it's OK to try and get out of it?:confused:
From the nature of your post, I'm going to make a huge assumption here and say that you lack maturity. If you've got a job that required a clean license, then you might want to take better care of it. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but take whatever punishment you're given on the chin, learn the lesson, and take a bit more responsiblity for yourself in future.
I'd be inclined to request a meeting with their inspector and demand they appear too so you can discuss the situation and explain the reasons why you think the section 59 ticket is unreasonable on this occasion. It seems like you may be known to them for dicking about in your car, and eating a little humble pie might possibly get you let off if you're prepared to aplogise and keep your nose clean in future. Also, how did you act while the coppers were booking you, because politeness will get you a long way. Act the ar*e with coppers at the side of the road and they will throw the book at you - give a polite response and they may listen to any explanation you might have.
But... I'm guessing you don't do politeness to coppers much in Essex.
On another point, why is the standard of written English is so damned poor amongst the younger generation? Do you kids not get taught how to spell simple words like 'again' 'heard' 'tyres' and 'explain'? Is it down to bad teaching or just a general CGAF attitude from the kids?
When I was employing people I'd read their CVs very carefully to look for bad grammar and spelling; if it was anywhere near as bad as the OP's then the CV would go straight in the bin. The wholesale destruction of the English language really annoys me.
tj ready
13-06-09, 09:51 AM
hi,
thanks for both of your replys i must say that you both make a lot of sence to me. when i spoke to the coopers i was polite and constntly saying sorry. i have now been up the police station and im now going to get my car but i have to pay £150 to get it out of the impound i did ask the cooper in the police station wether i was going to court he did not anser in a strate yes or no but what he did say is "you are yong and you need to be more cearfull in futcher" so i might be ok i supose ill wait and find out thanks agen tj
i did ask the cooper in the police station wether i was going to court
How would he know? It's not up to him, he just makes the barrels.
tj ready
13-06-09, 09:55 AM
On another point, why is the standard of written English is so damned poor amongst the younger generation? Do you kids not get taught how to spell simple words like 'again' 'heard' 'tyres' and 'explain'? Is it down to bad teaching or just a general CGAF attitude from the kids?
When I was employing people I'd read their CVs very carefully to look for bad grammar and spelling; if it was anywhere near as bad as the OP's then the CV would go straight in the bin. The wholesale destruction of the English language really annoys me.
:offtopic:thanks, but i am dislexick and iam starting to reed more books now so my spelling should get better i hope
:offtopic:thanks, but i am dislexick and iam starting to reed more books now so my spelling should get better i hope
My apologies in your case, I didn't know about your dyslexia - but the general standard of English amongst youngsters is extremely poor mo.
fizzwheel
13-06-09, 10:05 AM
"you are yong and you need to be more cearfull in futcher"
Sounds like he's probably right. I've lost count of the number of times a police officer said that to me when I was 17 - 18...
Wait and see what comes through your door and keep your nose clean for a while. If you're that worried go to Citizens advice and see if they can point you in the right direction as to what might happen or get some proper legal advice from a solicitor... but I'd just keep my fingers crossed for now TBH.
Cops were a bit harsh IMO. Probably just trying to warn you off because you're a young driver.
It'll probably all blow over.
Try not to worry petal
Dx
shonadoll
13-06-09, 10:10 AM
:offtopic:thanks, but i am dislexick and iam starting to reed more books now so my spelling should get better i hope
I wondered if you were dyslexic, you write like my 15 year old daughter, she's getting better too, so hang in there.;)
Be polite to the police, but tbh I wonder if they have picked on you because you are young maybe, so would maybe be worth following up. I hope it works out for you, take care.
shonadoll
13-06-09, 10:11 AM
sorry, but if you were misbehaving and drawing yourself to the attention of the police, then what on earth makes you think it's OK to try and get out of it?:confused:
From the nature of your post, I'm going to make a huge assumption here and say that you lack maturity. If you've got a job that required a clean license, then you might want to take better care of it. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but take whatever punishment you're given on the chin, learn the lesson, and take a bit more responsiblity for yourself in future.
That's pretty harsh.
MR UKI (1)
13-06-09, 10:39 AM
Sounds pretty harsh to me, given the limit was/is 50mph. Fingers crossed nothing further materialises mate.
cowelly
13-06-09, 10:51 AM
WHOA THERE LOZZO. i'm consistantley emailing people and correcting they're gramma and spelling, also punctuation and i've been told to 'get a life' which i guess is fair enough, ebay is a blinder, but you gotta get over it, move on and let it be. There are a fair few people out there wot is dyslexic so you kinda think 'oh well'. INITT!:confused:
TJ - read this very carefully as, IMHO, it looks like they shouldn't have seized your vehicle. I'm assuming that you hadn't been warned previously, of course.
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless-
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
Needs to be read in conjunction with with s5 underneath.
Remember this if you get summonsed ;-)
On another point, why is the standard of written English is so damned poor amongst the younger generation? Do you kids not get taught how to spell simple words like 'again' 'heard' 'tyres' and 'explain'? Is it down to bad teaching or just a general CGAF attitude from the kids?
When I was employing people I'd read their CVs very carefully to look for bad grammar and spelling; if it was anywhere near as bad as the OP's then the CV would go straight in the bin. The wholesale destruction of the English language really annoys me.
Please don't stereotype, we all aren't like that.
*Scans over sentence for typos*
:)
I have to agree with Lozzo on the spelling and grammar issue. It appears that "text speak" seems to spilling over into everyday things at the moment.
Apologies for the derail TJ. Hope you get it sorted.
the white rabbit
13-06-09, 11:03 AM
How would he know? It's not up to him, he just makes the barrels.
Just to let you know someone appreciated that :smt042
the white rabbit
13-06-09, 11:04 AM
WHOA THERE LOZZO. i'm consistantley emailing people and correcting they're gramma and spelling, also punctuation
:scratch:
CoolGirl
13-06-09, 11:08 AM
That's pretty harsh.
Maybe, but that's my opinion, which I'm entitled to give. I did couch my post with caveats given that I don't know the young man in question (including having picked up the dyslexia but not felt the need to highlight it for him), and he has replied saying I'd made sense. I therefore find your post unnecessarily critical, but I'll leave it up to the mods to decide if anything on this thread is out of order.
Red Herring
13-06-09, 02:05 PM
There is a fair bit of abuse of the sect 59 system within the police at the moment, unfortunately it's a case of relatively new legislation being used a little more zealously than intended. Normally a copper needs a reasonable level of evidence to get a job to court, and Sect 3 offences (careless driving/riding) are not that easy to prove. Unfortunately the sect 59 legislation doesn't require them to have the standard of evidence necessary to go to court before taking action, it's all down to the coppers belief at the time, and as a result there are a fair few Sect 59's dished out where there is clearly insufficient evidence to secure a conviction, and this seems to be one of them. As as has been said they couldn't have seized the car unless you were warned and continued, or you had received a warning on a previous occasion.
Most forces have a policy that if the officers are seizing a vehicle there is a presumption on prosecution for the original offence (driving off road/careless driving) so you should have been reported. Expect a summons in due course.
timwilky
13-06-09, 03:42 PM
Just to let you know someone appreciated that :smt042
I too appreciated it, initially thought WTF as I had speed read the post that prompted Dan into an odd moment of wit.
madness
13-06-09, 03:52 PM
:scratch:
Indeed!
shonadoll
13-06-09, 04:14 PM
Maybe, but that's my opinion, which I'm entitled to give. I did couch my post with caveats given that I don't know the young man in question (including having picked up the dyslexia but not felt the need to highlight it for him), and he has replied saying I'd made sense. I therefore find your post unnecessarily critical, but I'll leave it up to the mods to decide if anything on this thread is out of order.
Wow, and again:smt101:D
Jamiebridges123
13-06-09, 04:28 PM
All this talk of dyslexia, I'm dyslexic too but you'd be hard pressed to tell. :p
Sorry for off topic. :D
All this talk of dyslexia, I'm dyslexic too but you'd be hard pressed to tell. :p
Sorry for off topic. :D
It effects people in different ways.
Speech, writing, reading or typing.
Jamiebridges123
13-06-09, 04:37 PM
Mine's writing/typing.. normally when I'm tired it gets even worse when I'm tired, but I just try to re-check my posts before posting.. but anyway sorry for derailing LMAO.
Uhm when you said the copper said "you're young be careful in the future" and that you have to pay £150 to get your car back.. just be like "yup sorry" and drive away slooooowly.. and don't get done again..maybe you're just going to get let off with a caution..
yorkie_chris
13-06-09, 06:02 PM
I think this section 59 thing damned unjust, an easy way to give you a hefty fine with no evidence required.
However, I thought it was necessary for you to be warned BEFORE they could sieze your vehicle, since I presume there was no other reason for them to sieze it.
Regarding further action, did they give you any reason to expect further punishment? As if you were under the speed limit then that isn't a worry, and "your tyres were making a noise" is shaky ground for any other charge.
What were you doing? Repeatedly lapping the roundabouts or what?
I think I would be contacting a brief. Would this sort of thing be within the remit of legal cover given with the car insurance if there is any?
joshmac
14-06-09, 12:44 AM
WHOA THERE LOZZO. I'm consistently emailing people and correcting their grammar and spelling, also punctuation and I've been told to 'get a life' which i guess is fair enough, eBay is a blinder, but you gotta get over it, move on and let it be. There are a fair few people out there who are dyslexic so you kinda' think 'oh well'. INITT!:confused:
To be honest, I'd probably tell you to get a life (probably wouldn't be as mild as that) if you tried to correct me from up on your pedestal, considering your grammar is as bad as that. I don't have a problem with people who find it hard to spell or use correct grammar, but when someone like yourself, who quite frankly doesn't have a clue themselves, has the cheek/arrogance to pick holes, it really f*cks me off. Also your second sentence was pretty poorly constructed :roll:
Lozzo that was an unfair generalisation to make mate :lol:
Anyway, enough derailing this thread with :offtopic: rubbish about spelling and grammar!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In response to the OP:
Sorry to hear about this. Sounds like the coppers were abusing their power. As Lozzo said, go and sit down with the supervisor if possible and have a chat about it. +1 on getting legal advice as well.
Hope it all gets sorted. Keep us posted :thumbsup:
yorkie_chris
14-06-09, 12:46 AM
In response to the OP:
Sorry to hear about this. Sounds like the coppers were abusing their power. As Lozzo said, go and sit down with the supervisor if possible and have a chat about it. +1 on getting legal advice as well.
Hope it all gets sorted. Keep us posted :thumbsup:
Legal advice, THEN further chats with the coppers.
joshmac
14-06-09, 12:47 AM
Legal advice, THEN further chats with the coppers.
What he said :lol: It's what I meant, just didn't express myself clearly
yorkie_chris
14-06-09, 12:48 AM
Does anybody know the procedure if a brief is required?
I've got legal cover on my insurance, would this be covered? Legal aid? Or out of your own pocket?
Red Herring
14-06-09, 08:32 AM
Try citizens advice first, they're free. Has the OP come back yet and said anything about getting a warning, I did try and read through but got confused with all the arguments about spelling!
I have to agree with Lozzo on the spelling and grammar issue. It appears that "text speak" seems to spilling over into everyday things at the moment.
Apologies for the derail TJ. Hope you get it sorted.
wot u chatin bout? my splellin is well good innit.
Just to let you know someone appreciated that :smt042
Thank you... I was ever so disappointed until I read that.
I too appreciated it, initially thought WTF as I had speed read the post that prompted Dan into an odd moment of wit.
I do have the odd one, Tim.
some coppers just love to throw their weight around don't they. Would be better off without some of them. Hope it all gets dropped and they leave you alone. As for how you should talk to them, considering how some coppers talk to the general public (fing and blinding) just being polite to them is bloody hard work.
Dave20046
15-06-09, 08:05 AM
I think this section 59 thing damned unjust, an easy way to give you a hefty fine with no evidence required.
However, I thought it was necessary for you to be warned BEFORE they could sieze your vehicle, since I presume there was no other reason for them to sieze it.
Regarding further action, did they give you any reason to expect further punishment? As if you were under the speed limit then that isn't a worry, and "your tyres were making a noise" is shaky ground for any other charge.
What were you doing? Repeatedly lapping the roundabouts or what?
I think I would be contacting a brief. Would this sort of thing be within the remit of legal cover given with the car insurance if there is any?
I thought they do my mate got one for doing some long ass burnout next to a copper but it stated that with the 59 on his record next time the vehicle would be confiscated. Dunno, anyway I'd definitely contend it 50mph limit - no one about and in a mini of all cars one of the best handling go carty cars I'd guess you were very probably in control (unless you're telling us porkies i.e they were infact mini roundabouts or something)
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