the guillibility of the young, and taking advantage

[timwilky]

Well my lad has been unemployed for 6 months and answered an advert from a company offering plumbing training.

He has just come back from his interview, enthusiastic. He has to pay them £4,000 for a 1 year training course and at the end the guarantee him a job.

So David, where are you going to get this £4,000 from. Can you not lend it me.

What are you going to live on for the year whilst you are training? dunno.

How can they guarantee a job, Wayne (family friend) is a plumber and had no work for the past 2 months? They are also an agency and work with loads of firms.

He thinks we are stupid and spoiling his chances of getting a job.

I could happily thump the parasites who pray on innnocent kids like this

[Specialone]

Couldn't he just go to college anyway and live on the 4 grand he would have paid for the other course.
Too many plumbers around now anyway, might want to consider something else ?

[svdemon]

What sort of qualification does that give him? Find out then call some prospective employers as if you've already done it and see what they make of it.

[timwilky]

It is worse than I thought. Just a 3 month course. Apparently you get appropriate C&G, gas cert etc. But how the heck after 3 months training can you compete against a time served etc.

Daft sod is kicking, talking about getting a credit card and paying on that. Even though he has just had a threatening letter from his mortgage co

[Specialone]

It is worse than I thought. Just a 3 month course. Apparently you get appropriate C&G, gas cert etc. But how the heck after 3 months training can you compete against a time served etc.

Daft sod is kicking, talking about getting a credit card and paying on that. Even though he has just had a threatening letter from his mortgage co

I find it hard to imagine getting a gas safe cert after 3 months, if you do thats pretty good but experience counts as well.
I'm not a qualified plumber, (builder) i do **** loads of plumbing, 25+ bathrooms a year and some of the work i have seen by qualified plumbers is poor, so qualifications are only part of it.

[timwilky]

I could scream. He is downstairs arguing with everyone that we are not being fair. He is wearing rose tinted specs. They have told him he will be on 40k so will be able to repay the costs etc. If we give him the chance to do it.

My bro is/was a builder (contract manger) until he was laid off in Jan. the industry is on its knees and these clowns are offering unemployed retraining in construction skills with guaranteed work placements at 40k. I cannot understand how.

[600+]

why don't you give them a call yourself tim and play you're interested

you can ask all the questions and find out first hand

[svdemon]

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, i've just done a 1 year intense course to get my Gas Safe qualification so to do that and plumbing and get hands on experience (which you need for NVQ3 Gas) is impossible.

Training will be geared towards passing him rather than training him and employers know that.

[Spiderman]

Deep breaths Tim old boy. there will always be sharks around to prey on the vulnerable with promises of a better future...just to take their money.

Tell him this short story and see if he sees the similarity... about 7-8yrs ago i was looking for a new direction. Saw an ad for IT training wiht a guranteed job at the end of it. Defered payments till you started earning and even access to the Govts loan scheme for training. Max Govt would give for any course was £8k. Guess what, the 6 month course cost exactly £8k. Hmmmm.
I passed on the idea as a better offer came up but always kept an eye on the firm. The course was to gain an MCSE qualification. Halfway thru the course Microsoft said the MCSE basically wan't worth anything anymore cos too many people held the qualification. The course went on regardless and from what i heard the firm offering the training and guaranteed jobs just decided to shut up and declare bust.
So no jobs and noone to sue but a big old loan to pay back to the Govt.

Its really not his fault Tim, they make it sound so appealing and easy he REALLY does think he'd be a fool not to go for it. I feel for him cos i know where he is right now in his mind, i've been there and those rose timted glasses cn be a bitch to take off...especially when times are hard and everyone is struggling.

HTH

[GeneticBubble]

why don't you give them a call yourself tim and play you're interested

you can ask all the questions and find out first hand


+1 seems like the most sensible idea :smt023

[svdemon]

+1 seems like the most sensible idea :smt023

It really isn't the most sensible idea!

[Samurai Penguin]

Phone trading standards and report them.

It sounds like a complete con, and working in the building trade myself I know how hard it is to find work right now.

[Spiderman]

I agree. Chances are they will know you're trying to suss them out and will either lie or just say "well come along and find out, thats why we are here. Wedont give info ut over the fone" etc etc.

[Bluefish]

40k a year, i could do with a payrise, might tell my boss, no i will tell my boss newbys are on 40k see what he says, i'm sure he could do with a laugh. as for guarenteed job there is no such thing, especially as for years there have been ads all over the place saying become a plumber earn £600,000 per hour so now people are being laid off, that's why i'm not looking to move at the mo it's too risky.
The course/advert he has seen is them trying to stay in business same as anybody else, good luck to him but he would be better applying to firms as an apprentice but that means crap money and if he has bills to pay mortgage etc then is usually a non starter.

[ethariel]

The problem is that some of the 'Mainstream' IT Training companies were doing the same,

You pay US for the training and we guarentee you a job. IT professionals with our training can eark £3964596363 a year HONEST!

So you pay them, do the training whilst in your current job (duh! got to be able to pay them!) and at the end they offer you the same £6k a year job they have offered the last 2000 idiots taking up your offer.

[Specialone]

I could scream. He is downstairs arguing with everyone that we are not being fair. He is wearing rose tinted specs. They have told him he will be on 40k so will be able to repay the costs etc. If we give him the chance to do it.

My bro is/was a builder (contract manger) until he was laid off in Jan. the industry is on its knees and these clowns are offering unemployed retraining in construction skills with guaranteed work placements at 40k. I cannot understand how.

Im self employed and i dont earn 40k and i know plumbers and gas fitters who work for firms who dont earn no where near that amount so it sounds fabricated just to get his money.

[fizzwheel]

Tim why dont you get your plumber mate to talk to him and explain what the industry is like at the mo. Mabye he is struggling with listening to his dad, and he might lsiten to somebody else.

I was just the same when I was young, I never listened to my dad as I thought I knew better all the time.

[davepreston]

Tim why dont you get your plumber mate to talk to him and explain what the industry is like at the mo. Mabye he is struggling with listening to his dad, and he might lsiten to somebody else.

I was just the same when I was young, I never listened to my dad as I thought I knew better all the time.
+1 get him in the pub with someone in the job

[timwilky]

I will try and get him to talk to some in the job and maybe he can get a better perspective.

He is the most practically inept person I know. He blew an engine because the red oil light came on so he reved harder to make it go out etc.

What gets me is he had to do an aptitude test. Pass mark is 40%. He got 85%. something stinks, I have had to replace his leaky radiator valves and replace his shower. He hasn't a clue. yet he gets the "your a natural".

He has told them he cannot raise the money and now they are looking for alternative funding. Wouldn't be surprised to see a credit agreement secured against his house etc in the offing.

I have seen the IT type ones advertised and wonder where these miracle jobs are when I know what I pay my junior staff. I just put it down to a North South divide. or finance industry vs the rest of the IT community

[metalangel]

I had a similar call once, they offered some kind of IT training with job placements at the end of it all, all it took was a small (large) fee and I could be away! The guy was incredible, he even got so far as asking me to read him 'the large number across the middle of my debit card', at which point I shouted I was doing no such f'ing thing and hung up on him.

Even my housemates were enraged by it when I told them.

[Bluewolf]

But how the heck after 3 months training can you compete against a time served etc.

When I was doing my apprenticeship we used to hear stories of companies falling over each other to offer placements to trainees and laying them off once they were time-served because they didn't qualify for 'Skillseeker' funding anymore. Then they would simply get another first year trainee and begin the cycle again because they didn't have to fork out from their own pockets :rolleyes:

[SoulKiss]

Just make sure you also keep him away from www.carcraft.co.uk .............

[metalangel]

What are you talking about? Carcraft are a reputable business that provide affordable motoring!

http://www.thevervoid.com/media/onlyfoolsgfx/screen/4203.jpg

[fizzwheel]

What gets me is he had to do an aptitude test. Pass mark is 40%. He got 85%. something stinks, I have had to replace his leaky radiator valves and replace his shower. He hasn't a clue. yet he gets the "your a natural".

Of course he does, they want his £4K don't they...

[metalangel]

Mono means one. And rail means rail. And that concludes our intensive three week course.

[gruntygiggles]

Timwilky, if you really want to get the message across to him, pm me, i'll give you my number and you can get him to call me. I used to work on the Exec Search side of a firm that was contracted to the UK's largest "trainer" for Plumbers........they've been doing it for years and I'd be suprised if it is not the same one your son is dealing with as it sounds exactly the same. I never sold any of those courses as not my thing, but I can tell you now....if your sone had done this 4-5 years ago, he'd have got a decent paying job at the end of it and would also have some sort of protection now as he would be employed, so even if he lost his job he would get redundancy. However, for the last 12-18 months, the plumbing courses are most definately the worst your son can do. They have dropped that standards so that they reach out to a larger demographic and furnish promises of £40k+ to appease the family members that they know will be paying the course fees.

It's ridiculous. If he was interested in a Sparky course, I'd say it was worth maybe looking into as it's not as saturated, BUT....he'd be better off getting a job and doing NVQ's at the same time, C&G's etc and they are all open to all ages.

It's a good job you've got the knowledge and sense to know a scam when you see one. Tell him from someone that knows from the inside.......the major companies offering these courses are laughing and I've heard it said by one of the salesmen that he "feels like he's legally stealing money everytime he sells a course"!

Good luck and give him a kick up the backside. Also the only CC he'll get with Mortgage arrears will have a stupid interest on it so his £4k course will end up costing £6-7k+

[flymo]

Put him in touch with somebody that is a qualified plumber or gas c/h fitter and let them talk it through. He might get the message then.

[gruntygiggles]

Put him in touch with somebody that is a qualified plumber or gas c/h fitter and let them talk it through. He might get the message then.

+1

[keithd]

and i thought this thread was a follow up to jamiebridges revelations regarding his g/f's age....

[metalangel]

and i thought this thread was a follow up to jamiebridges revelations regarding his g/f's age....

:winner:

[Gazza77]

I could scream. He is downstairs arguing with everyone that we are not being fair. He is wearing rose tinted specs. They have told him he will be on 40k so will be able to repay the costs etc. If we give him the chance to do it.

My bro is/was a builder (contract manger) until he was laid off in Jan. the industry is on its knees and these clowns are offering unemployed retraining in construction skills with guaranteed work placements at 40k. I cannot understand how.

If the course is capable of guaranteeing a £40k job after 3 months of training, then why aren't the majority of the staff at the training company actually on the courses?!

I'd put money on the fact that the majority of the admin staff etc won't be on anywhere near £40k....

[metalangel]

That's the old Matt Groening joke, "If you know so much about making intelligent career decisions, why are you still a careers advisor?"

[timwilky]

Strange that this should appear in todays local paper


605 builders chase just two jobs

Published Date:
18 June 2009
By Matthew Squires (matthew.squires@lep.co.uk)
More than 600 out-of-work tradesmen in Lancashire are chasing just TWO vacancies, latest figures reveal.
As it was announced that unemployment was increasing in Lancashire, a new study revealed the true scale of the economic downturn's impact on the county's construction workers.

According to the statistics, 605 jobseekers are looking for building work – chasing a pair of vacancies advertised in the county's job centres.

Meanwhile, figures for the construction trade, which includes bricklayers, plumbers, joiners and masons, shows 1,200 people in the county are chasing just 35 jobs.

The figures, a snapshot of the job market as it stood in April, will raise fears that Lancashire is suffering a "blue-collar recession", leading to the loss of crucial skills and trades.

Conservative work and pensions secretary Theresa May, who published the figures, today called for an "apprenticeship clearing house" to help find apprentices whose firms have gone bankrupt new work or training.

She said: "It is essential that jobseekers in the North West get as much information as possible on what jobs are available in their area and support if they need to retrain in a different industry or sector."

Adrienne Yarwood, lecturer on quantity surveying at the University of Central Lancashire, said: "We have seen an increase in applications for our courses and we have found that trying to get sandwich placements for our students has been difficult this year.

"We need to make sure we don't end up with a skills shortage like after the last recession."

The figures come as separate findings reveal a thousand people are month are now joining the dole queue in Lancashire.

Unemployment is at a 13-year high in the county. The number of people
claiming benefits has increased to 25,903.

Today the county's builders told how the recession has hit them.
Graham Nolan, 28, from Chorley, started working as a bricklayer with his dad, aged just 13.

Earlier this year, the married dad-of-one, who had worked his way up to foreman and then site manager, found himself back on the bottom rung.

He said: "I have gone back down to doing things on my own, little three-day jobs, things like that.

"It is a nightmare. You are putting prices in and doing them for next to nothing.

"When I was site manager I was on a good wage and I got a mortgage off the strength of that – I'm still paying that.

"I have phoned the banks to see if they can give me some help, but they don't want to know.They say it is getting better, but it's not. I'm just trying to survive."

Rick Turner, of R Turner Construction in Wheelton, near Chorley, said: "I used to have a dozen lads on here and there's only myself now.

I spend the majority of my time pricing for people and little is coming back."

Brian Mengella, of Mengella Builders, in Penwortham, said: "I think it is the worst I have ever known it."

Builder Damien Lee, from Higher Bartle, Preston, said: "It has been like this for 12 to 18 months, Basically people are not spending. Work is drying up and enquiries are getting a lot less."

The Tory analysis claimed that, across the North West, there were 1,975 bricklayers and masons chasing three job centre-advertised vacancies and 3,405 carpenters and joiners competing for nine positions.

Work and Pensions Secretary Yvette Cooper said the Tories should back Labour plans to spend an extra £5bn to expand Job Centre plus, provide extra training and guarantee jobs for young people.


do you think that will convince him that there is no work. He is a tiler, he knows construction is on its knees, yet he wants to chase pipe dreams. God I cannot believe I write that

[Jabba]

.......he wants to chase pipe dreams....

Class :thumbsup:

[the_runt69]

get him down to Stratford to help with the building of the Olympic stadium, at least it would be another British worker on site

[davepreston]

simples me ,your lad, 24 cans of larger, and a large hammer i'll make him see sense and im only round the corner

[FooFighterDen]

The title reminds me of when my BF told me of a time when he had an apprentice at his works.

The lad of 16 was sweeping the workshop, swarf, fillings and chunks of metal on the floor. He was sweeping around a worker who was milling some brass and the boy said. "is that gold?" The worker said "yes, if you pick up the fillings you could cash them in, be my guest but don't tell the boss"

*******!:D The poor apprentice started picking up the brass.


Right of passage. he, he.

[metalangel]

Did they send him out for a lefthanded sponge, some striped paint and some headlight fluid?

[Dappa D]

Hi Tim...pipe dreams indeed lol!!

looks like that paper article may get the message across....but if it doesnt...

ask him to do a google search for a plumbers forum.......

not so long ago i was looking to go in a different direction..looked at plumbing..sparky and energy effeciency inspector...all ran by these companies claiming gar.job at end of course...saying there is still a shortage etc....

so i done some research...found some forums.....in all of them...it was people who had done these courses offering to work for free because they needed some experience to go towards getting their grade..or something along those lines.....and most of these people...even though offering to work for free...still couldnt get work.

it might just persuade him that its not the best idea if he can communicate with people via some kind of nerdy forum (couldnt do it myself!!!) that are already doing the course / done the course and cant get work!

HTH