AR09 Fire: I'm contemplating my wood...

[Bear]

So, Messie has done a fabulous job not only organising a campsite, but has provided us with the possibility of a fire to gather round as well, which is something missing from many campsites in my opinion.

However, we will need to source some wood for this to work. (Alpinestarhero's top-box will only burn for so long, after all...) I've looked into getting wood (fnarr fnarr) delivered, and I reckon our best bet is here: http://www.coals2u.co.uk/logs2u/logs or here: http://www.mjgiddings.co.uk/main.asp?sitepages=ContactPage as they will deliver within a couple of days. I'm sure we can sort something out with the pub for storage if we get the wood to turn up at the start of the week. I reckon a couple of 1m cubed bags will do us, and based on numbers for last year (about 80) we could get 2 bags for the cost of around £2 each.

The other alternative is trying to source stuff locally and get it back to the site, but I reckon to guarantee a decent fire £2 is a small price to pay.

What do we reckon folks?

[Viney]

Pallets!

[SoulKiss]

1st link has a £50 minimum order for delivery (Coals2U/Logs2U)

Oops I misread - not to bad a deal tho

[Messie]

Oh dear ... Bear ... wood ...


I think I'm having a hot flush (and I shouldn't be yet, should I?)

[Messie]

Sorry, sorry got distracted there.

Someone knows someones who's a tree surgeon who may be able to help. I'll chase that one up but a plan B is a good idea.

I'm sure it won't be a problem storing stuff there for a week or two.

[hovis]

based on numbers for last year (about 80) we could get 2 bags for the cost of around £2 each.



What do we reckon folks?

£160 for a fire.

thats alot of beer money;)

[SoulKiss]

Right, I done a bit laterral finking and called the local Scout Campsite @ Hockley to see where they get their firewood from.

Turns out they get pallets donated from a bunch of DIY companies, I got the names of Buildbase and St Annes.

The nearest Buildbase is

Purdeys Way, Purdeys Industrial Estate GB - Essex SS4 1ND which is Rochford 20 miles away.

I cant find anything for St Annes, but may be worth getting in touch with any other DIY stores in the area.

[plowsie]

I'll sack a bag from a local source. I'll be there early on the Friday, if it's needed, it's needed, if not, it's not.

[Messie]

Right, I done a bit laterral finking and called the local Scout Campsite @ Hockley to see where they get their firewood from.

Turns out they get pallets donated from a bunch of DIY companies, I got the names of Buildbase and St Annes.

The nearest Buildbase is

Purdeys Way, Purdeys Industrial Estate GB - Essex SS4 1ND which is Rochford 20 miles away.

I cant find anything for St Annes, but may be worth getting in touch with any other DIY stores in the area.

Woah Dave hold your horses there. Those places are way too far away and there are many more irons in the fire (haha)

Please hang on and don't phone places just yet. I'm even talking to my places right now. My school is having building works done as well. So please SK wait a bit before you phone up Scout camps (ooor err lol)

[Viney]

He just wants to get his Woggle out! Anyyyyyywayyyyyyyyyy

back to the thread

[custard]

in an attempt to fit in with the locals, cant you just nick an xr3i and torch it in a field?

[SoulKiss]

Woah Dave hold your horses there. Those places are way too far away and there are many more irons in the fire (haha)

Please hang on and don't phone places just yet. I'm even talking to my places right now. My school is having building works done as well. So please SK wait a bit before you phone up Scout camps (ooor err lol)


Lol - was just getting a list of their suppliers not committing to anything for ideas :)

Hence why I just passed the info on, and didn't chase Buildbase :)

[Spiderman]

£160 for a fire.

thats alot of beer money;)

No its about the cost of a pint per person ;)

I really want a fire but as was said before "too many cooks n all that" so i'm staying well out of this and leaving it to you capable boys n girls.

if you fail in your mission just know this much... your bikes will be the first in the fire, then we'll go looking for XR3is like custard said :lol:

[Bear]

£160 for a fire.

thats alot of beer money;)

In a shock move I agree with you! We could probably get away with a minimum order (1 pallet, around £100) but we'll probably run out of wood on Saturday night. I'd rather miss out on a pint and have a fire than have one more pint and be cold though! Just wanted to open up some discussion of what we're gonna do for fuel. Problem as I see it is transporting it to the site, and the bonus for getting stuff delivered is... it's delivered. Pallets are all well and good, but I don't reckon I can get more than 27 on my bike at once...

[Alpinestarhero]

(Alpinestarhero's top-box will only burn for so long, after all...)

Its ok, your bike will burn first...probably self combust :p;)

loooovvveee yyyyoooouuuuuu :smt008

[ArtyLady]

Sorry, sorry got distracted there.

Someone knows someones who's a tree surgeon who may be able to help. I'll chase that one up but a plan B is a good idea.

I'm sure it won't be a problem storing stuff there for a week or two.

Someone is working on it right now........will get back to you :cool:

[ophic]

if it helps, some of us are coming in cars. If there's a local-ish source, i'm sure we can convoy over and stuff as much in as possible.

[pookie]

also more than willing to load up on the fire building weekend too if they can keep the wood dry and safe for a week

[Spiderman]

Pallets are all well and good, but I don't reckon I can get more than 27 on my bike at once...

pfft, amateur.

[hovis]

No its about the cost of a pint per person ;)
:lol: i was thinking along the lines of crates of 24, £160 would buy hell of a lot, you could probably get it for a tenner a crate, thats nearly 400 cans:p

In a shock move I agree with you! We could probably get away with a minimum order (1 pallet, around £100) but we'll probably run out of wood on Saturday night.
just seems a bit weird spending so much money just to burn, can you just go chop some trees down;)

[Messie]

in an attempt to fit in with the locals, cant you just nick an xr3i and torch it in a field?

Lol - but they're tricked up Corsas now!

Someone is working on it right now........will get back to you :cool:

Thank you xx

if it helps, some of us are coming in cars. If there's a local-ish source, i'm sure we can convoy over and stuff as much in as possible.

Thank you

also more than willing to load up on the fire building weekend too if they can keep the wood dry and safe for a week

Thank you - I'm sure they can store it
i was thinking along the lines of crates of 24, £160 would buy hell of a lot, you could probably get it for a tenner a crate, thats nearly 400 cans:p


just seems a bit weird spending so much money just to burn, can you just go chop some trees down;)


Hovis - you know how you wanted to help so much you even volunteerede to be a marker? Well you could do this for us instead hun. Mwah xx

[chris8886]

i'm sure we'll be able to find enough around and about the place! i made it a talent of mine in the scouts ;) tis all in the name.

[Alpinestarhero]

i'm sure we'll be able to find enough around and about the place! i made it a talent of mine in the scouts ;) tis all in the name.

you made it a talent of yours to source out wood huh


*giggles*


:smt046

[chris8886]

you made it a talent of yours to source out wood huh


*giggles*


:smt046

:smt067:smt075 you just think you're sooooooooooooooo funny! :rolleyes: lol

[Alpinestarhero]

:smt067:smt075 you just think you're sooooooooooooooo funny! :rolleyes: lol

fangyoo, fangyoo :rambo:

My sv is nearly ready to get back on the road, woohoo

well, hopefully it'll pass the MoT...

[Bear]

i'm sure we'll be able to find enough around and about the place! .

No, we won't. That's why I'm asking! Seems like it may be under control anyway!

[hovis]

Hovis - you know how you wanted to help so much you even volunteerede to be a marker? Well you could do this for us instead hun. Mwah xx

give me an axe, 6 cans of lager and point me in the direction of the trees:mrgreen:

[Messie]

give me an axe, 6 cans of lager and point me in the direction of the trees:mrgreen:

Cool x

[phil24_7]

If people wanna help me saw/snap/break up some wood. I will be able to get a load from my work, and I'll bring it in my van/trailer. Should be able to get a fair amount.

How big is he fire allowed to be?

Regards

[Messie]

Hoooooge!!!

Many thanks, that will be great!

[chris8886]

If people wanna help me saw/snap/break up some wood. I will be able to get a load from my work, and I'll bring it in my van/trailer. Should be able to get a fair amount.

How big is he fire allowed to be?

Regards

:smt045:thumleft: sounds like fun to me :D

[Warthog]

I'd just like to say that I love campfires and think they are essential so well done to all those who are trying to organise one! As a guide, the campsite the TVSF visited a month ago sold three bags of wood for a tenner, and that was enough for a medium fire for one night. I usually just raid nearby woods etc, but I don't know if there are any around. Thanks to anyone organsising this properly in that case!

[phil24_7]

I HAVE WOOD!













Should be able to get some more in the near future, so I will hopefully have plenty by August.

[SoulKiss]

Bear, that wasn't a trial run in Soho yesterday afternoon was it ?

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Jul/Week2/15335785.jpg

[Warthog]

It's looking good, how are you planning on getting it to the campsite? :lol:

[phil24_7]

Pixies! (or in van/trailer with the bike!)

[Alpinestarhero]

im

just a little

excited

[northwind]

10 points to the first person to fall in the fire :drunken:

(no, joking apart, this is really cool... Always wanted a fire at an AR. Top work!)

[phil24_7]

I happen to be a pyromaniac by the way!

[Spiderman]

So Phil, just to clairify here - The Bear like one doesn't need to but any wood or is the amont you can get hold of just a top up to what he's getting?

i dont think he's been online for a while so i can text him and tell him once i know how much you are getting hold of :)

[phil24_7]

There will be no need to buy any wood. If those who are coming by car/van/truck/bus or other caged vehicle wish to bring some wood sourced locally from wooded areas and suchlike, then that's fine.

I have a decent amount and will be getting some more on the weekend so should be fine. Nobody has told me how big the fire will be or is allowed to be though (remember, as a pyromaniac, I'm thinking it'll be huge and capable of burning several 100 year old oak trees!) so I am not 100% sure of how much wood we'll require!

[Messie]

I did say, I said HUUUUUGE!

By that I mean around 1.5 metres by 1.5 metres

[Spiderman]

Phil, if you have a look here you can see the firepit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEcslqSE8Dg at about 1.20, its the metal thing with all the rubbish in it as the camera pans left.

i'm all in favour of a fire so big it can been seen in 3 counties but i know we have to keep it to a sensible size.

[phil24_7]

Mmmm...

I shall now shrink the size of the fire in my mind and try to calculate the fuel needs, assuming an average wind speed, dry conditions and a warm evening...

Wood is made of predominantly cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin. all three are predominantly composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen in various combinations. So if we say wood is

CxHyOz

then burning of wood is

CxHyOz + O2 ------> CO2 + H20

if you know x, y, and z, you can balance the equation.....

So, who can help me with x,y and z?



Anyway... I reckon I should have enough wood by the end of next weekend!

I'll post pics of how much I have and you can all make an educated guess as I don't wanna get it wrong!

[keith_d]

Cellulose is a polysaccharide, lots of glucose (C6H10O5) rings assembled in chains.

But the breakdown doesn't occur in a single step unless you divide it very finely and go for a powder explosion.

Usually you'll get some dehydration, then production of methanol and a whole assortment of aldehydes and ketones from partial ring breakdown. Sometimes there's a bit of methane in there too. These products burn to produce the pretty yellow flames.

Finally we get oxidation of the remaining carbon to carbon monoxide and/or carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is responsible for the translucent blue flames above a bed of charcoal when it takes the last step to carbon dioxide.

Keith (and you thought you were a pyromaniac)

[Spiderman]

Erm, yeh ok lads. I get you both. So what we are saying is we need about 2 large trees worth right?


:lol:

[chris8886]

I happen to be a pyromaniac by the way!

i happen to be a bigger one! :smt074 :p

[ophic]

But the breakdown doesn't occur in a single step unless you divide it very finely and go for a powder explosion.
ok so how do we do this again? :twisted: :D

[chris8886]

ok so how do we do this again? :twisted: :D

lighters, matches and aerosol cans are enough to satisfy me (with the odd firework or similar here and there :twisted:)!

[Alpinestarhero]

Cellulose is a polysaccharide, lots of glucose (C6H10O5) rings assembled in chains.

But the breakdown doesn't occur in a single step unless you divide it very finely and go for a powder explosion.

Usually you'll get some dehydration, then production of methanol and a whole assortment of aldehydes and ketones from partial ring breakdown. Sometimes there's a bit of methane in there too. These products burn to produce the pretty yellow flames.

Finally we get oxidation of the remaining carbon to carbon monoxide and/or carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is responsible for the translucent blue flames above a bed of charcoal when it takes the last step to carbon dioxide.

Keith (and you thought you were a pyromaniac)

i love you

[phil24_7]

You need a tissue the hero boy?

[Alpinestarhero]

You need a tissue the hero boy?

too late

but that was some serious chemistry geekage tehre Mr keith_d. i'd love to find out more about the mechanism of the degredation to give e.g. methanol and methane

[keith_d]

ok so how do we do this again? :twisted: :D

First start with a grain silo, add a couple of tonnes of dusty grain then a spark. One of the biggest was the DeBruce Grain Elevator which was ripped apart by a powder explosion in 1998.

For the pyro geeks among you, it's not really an explosion just rapid deflagration (burning). Still pretty darn destructive though because of the large volumes involved.

[keith_d]

too late

but that was some serious chemistry geekage tehre Mr keith_d. i'd love to find out more about the mechanism of the degredation to give e.g. methanol and methane

Burning a chunk of wood on a fire is actually quite complex. On the outside there is an oxygen rich environment where just about anything will be converted to water and carbon dioxide, so that's where most of the energy is. On the inside it's much more interesting because there's almost no oxygen and gradual pyrolysis occurs in several steps as the temperature rises.

Here's an example paper which discussed one of the mechanisms of cellulose pyrolysis...

http://www.jai.co.jp/english/data/tech_img/16/158-PY010E.pdf

Enjoy,

Keith.

[Alpinestarhero]

we're sharing scientific papers, this is bringing a tear to my eye :D

[phil24_7]

So when are you kicking Maria into touch and marrying kieth_d? LOL

[Messie]

I've just delivered a load of wood there to get things started and there's some already. The Landlord asked a local joiner if he had any off cuts and he certainly did. There's loads of the stuff! Should be a huge fire.

But I di seriously think we should only have a fire on the saturday evening. Kepp friday evening clearish because we have quite an early start on the rideout

[pookie]

any digging required this weekend?

[Bear]

Don't think so mate, but thanks for the offer. I'll be there early on Friday to help those who need it setting up tents, and to sort the fire. getting proper excited now!

[phil24_7]

I have plenty of wood for the Saturday evening, so whatever is there, we can burn on Friday!

[Messie]

And I've just found out the guy is coming to fell my tree tomorrow and do I know of anywhere he can get rid of the wood? Mmmm now let me think.

But I still think a fire should be on the saturday only. The children will get over-excited otherwise, never get to bed and then either miss the rideout or be grumpy tired-heads

[SoulKiss]

And I've just found out the guy is coming to fell my tree tomorrow and do I know of anywhere he can get rid of the wood? Mmmm now let me think.

But I still think a fire should be on the saturday only. The children will get over-excited otherwise, never get to bed and then either miss the rideout or be grumpy tired-heads

They will do that whether there is a fire or not - they will either huddle round a fire, or in someones tent for warmth.

Besides I didnt get to bed till about 4am at AR07 and I made the ride :)

[Spiderman]

Yeh SK is right of course, fire or not those who wanna stay up late will do so regardless. I want a fire everynight tbh. :)

[chris8886]

Yeh SK is right of course, fire or not those who wanna stay up late will do so regardless. I want a fire everynight tbh. :)

meeeee toooooooo!

[Messie]

Well if you do have a fire Friday you'll have to clear out the fire pit again ready for saturday.
Up to you. I'm not setting any rules, as I've said before. It was only an opinion ;)

[chris8886]

Well if you do have a fire Friday you'll have to clear out the fire pit again ready for saturday.
Up to you. I'm not setting any rules, as I've said before. It was only an opinion ;)

*whining voice the morning before going out* muuuuum... i neeeeeeed something cleaned and washed for tonight!! pleeeeeease :p

















*runs quickly to the woods and hides well*

[Messie]

DO IT YOURSELF!!!





xxx

[phil24_7]

The pyro in me votes for "big" fires on "all" days and nights!!

[Spiderman]

Well i think it'd be rude if we didnt burn all the wood we have, right? :lol:

[Bear]

Well if you do have a fire Friday you'll have to clear out the fire pit again ready for saturday.


Not really, we'll just build another fire on the remains of the last one. It's Sunday when we'll probably need to clean it out.

[Cazza]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already in another post...

Just wondering if anyone's got something to cover the wood pile with?

It would be a shame for there to be a massive downpour earlier in the day (or week) and then find that we can't burn any of the soggy wood.

And I know that Bear won't want soggy wood.

[phil24_7]

Well i think it'd be rude if we didnt burn all the wood we have, right? :lol:

+1

[phil24_7]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already in another post...

Just wondering if anyone's got something to cover the wood pile with?

It would be a shame for there to be a massive downpour earlier in the day (or week) and then find that we can't burn any of the soggy wood.

And I know that Bear won't want soggy wood.

Soggy wood still burns but it may take a little diesel to get the party started. I do have some diesel out by my bonfire drum!!

[Messie]

Noooooo!!!!!


To get this straight - I'm NOTHING to do with the fire OK?

I've decided that my work will be done by 6 O'clock Friday evening. Whatever happens after that is not my concern. Just line up the drinks so I don't notice the danger lol

[phil24_7]

Trust me, there'll be no danger... By no danger, I mean, little, or not a lot, or maybe a bit, or some... He'll, if ya don't wanna be burned, stay away from the fire pit!! :D

[chris8886]

Trust me, there'll be no danger... By no danger, I mean, little, or not a lot, or maybe a bit, or some... He'll, if ya don't wanna be burned, stay away from the fire pit!! :D


:drink::smt074 :D

[keith_d]

Trust me, there'll be no danger... By no danger, I mean, little, or not a lot, or maybe a bit, or some... He'll, if ya don't wanna be burned, stay away from the fire pit!! :D

And remember to keep moving. Anything stationary around the fire pit is likely to be mistaken for firewood by the Bear!!

[Kate Moss]

whose providing marshmellows?

[SoulKiss]

whose providing marshmellows?

Well volunteered that woman :)

[RichT]

Seconded :D

[phil24_7]

Hey, we're bringing the wood!

[Kate Moss]

there wont be any left if I am incharge of the marshmellows!

[phil24_7]

I have a lot of wood, so if someone would be kind enough to start the fire first thing in the morning, it'd be much appreciated!

On a serious note. I have no idea how I'm gonna fit everything in the van!

[phil24_7]

I may have underestimated how much room I need! I may have to leave Kate behind! lol

[Messie]

Leave a space in the middle of the wood and she can nestle in there like a little nest!

[phil24_7]

Will it fit???

[phil24_7]

I have a plan!

[phil24_7]

IT FITS!!! Whoo hoo!

[Spiderman]

OK, is it a plan that you're gonna love when it comes together or is it a cunning plan, more cunning that Lord Cunny Cunnnington, Chief of Cunningtonia?

[Bear]

OK, is it a plan that you're gonna love when it comes together or is it a cunning plan, more cunning that Lord Cunny Cunnnington, Chief of Cunningtonia?

Probably not, but can I please change my forum name to this?

[phil24_7]

Definitely cunning!!

[Spiderman]

Probably not, but can I please change my forum name to this?

Why did i have a feeling you'd like that mate? :lol:

Phil...good work so far, so when do you hitch the railer with half a redwood in it onto the back of that van too? ;)

[phil24_7]

I do have a trailer, a big box one, and I know where I can get some more wood. Sadly, however, I can't afford to take the week off work to watch it all burn! :)

[Liam9188]

No more wood!

[phil24_7]

I only brought enough for the Saturday night, and there was enough there for the Friday. You'll have to forage for your own wood now!!