View Full Version : Datatool alarm removal
thedonal
12-07-09, 08:08 AM
Good morning!
Easy question- does anyone in or near the Surbiton area have the skills to remove a Datatool alarm?
Mine is well dicey- it decided to stop working after I filled up with petrol last night. I thought that maybe water had got in somewhere, as I'd done a nasty ride from Christchurch to Portsmouth on the M27.
After an hour or so of fiddling with the breakdown mechanic (he was quite impressed on how 'hands on' I am- he says no-one's ever like that!), it seemed that something is loose in the box.
The case for the alarm is fairly battered- partly due to the efforts in getting it apart to remove the battery when I had to sync a new disclock to it and also it seems to have taken a bash from the disclock that sits loose under the back seat.
Frankly, the alarm's more trouble than it's worth, so it's got to go...!
Sid Squid
12-07-09, 09:12 AM
Yes, you have.
The alarm is fitted very simply,the connections simply need to be traced and removed from where they have been spliced into the bike's wiring. Most modern alarms also incorporate an immobiliser, the wiring for that is simple too, there will likely be two immobilising circuits, one that inhibits the starter system so it won't turn over and one that inhibits the ignition system so it won't run. In each case you will find a pair of wires from the alarm unit that have been inserted into a cut wire - the alarm has switches internally that now control whether these wires are continuous or not.
Alarm removal:
1) Find the alarm wires connected to the wiring loom, remove those which are simply spliced in.
2) Immobiliser wiring; you do not need to concern yourself with a wiring diagram or think about colours, simply find where the wires from the alarm unit enter the bike's loom, you will see that a given wire in the loom has been cut and each end connected to a black wire from the alarm, reconnect the original wires.
3) Make sure everything is suitably insulated and correctly reassembled.
4) Be pleased at how clever you are.
thedonal
12-07-09, 09:48 AM
Cheers Squid- I may take the back end apart tomorrow and have a gander.
The ignition immobiliser circuit- is it going to be down as far as the ignition key, or somewhere nearer the alarm itself?
The only obvious wiring I can see for the immobiliser is under the battery cover/fusebox connectors- there's a section of stripped wire and a loose wire (clearly a badly bodged 'pro' fitting job) that I just leave wrapped around it- never got round to resoldering it.
stewart-250
12-07-09, 10:21 AM
As Sid says it's easy to remove yourself. I removed the immobiliser from our SV and the ignition connections were close to the fuse box, alarm installers are lazy like the rest of us and unlikely to strip a bike down any more than they have to to fit a unit.
It really is very easy once you remove all the tape from the alarm wiring harness and see where all the wires are going. After all all you are doing is returning your wiring harness to the way it is shown in the manual.
cheers
Stewart
speedplay
12-07-09, 11:37 AM
I've just removed the system 3 from my daytona.
Its simple enough.
If you have any problems pm me and I'll email you some pictures of what was done.
I dont think we should give too many pointers on an open forum though as all it will do is help muppets nick bikes..
thedonal
12-07-09, 04:26 PM
Cheers guys- and fair point about posting too much info!
Sid Squid
13-07-09, 07:38 AM
Don't be paranoid, no-one is going to use this info to steal a bike as it would take far, far too long at the crime scene to do this. A thief certainly might rip the alarm out to stop it squealing - but he's going to do that with a hammer and without worrying about the wiring details, and similarly isn't going to fuss over the niceties of what we're scribbling here.
Stewart is right, you'll almost certainly find all of the wiring connected into the loom at the rear of the bike, I'm not sure this is fairly described as 'lazy', simply all of the circuits required are in that area - a supply, connections to the indicators, for the immobiliser both the starter solenoid itself and the supply to the ignition system, they're all under the rear bodywork.
speedplay
13-07-09, 06:34 PM
Don't be paranoid, no-one is going to use this info to steal a bike as it would take far, far too long at the crime scene to do this. A thief certainly might rip the alarm out to stop it squealing - but he's going to do that with a hammer and without worrying about the wiring details, and similarly isn't going to fuss over the niceties of what we're scribbling here.
I didnt mean so much as steal it, more of a case of after they have unloaded someone elses bike from their van and at their leisure in a garage somewhere.
My datatool system 3 took less than 15 minutes to take out once I had the relevant information.
Take my advice... fit a used wiring loom instead of farting around trying to work out where the Datatool wiring goes in and out of the original loom. If you think you're up to removing a Datatool, then replacing the complete loom will be a doddle and take a fraction of the time.
I replaced the one on my K3 naked in an hour and a half at a cost of 35 quid for a loom from a breaker on ebay, where I reckon it would have taken me many many hours trying to suss how the alarm had been connected and rectifying it to a satisfactory standard. The best 35 quid I ever spent that was
Alarm installers are lazy like the rest of us and unlikely to strip a bike down any more than they have to to fit a unit.
I think you'd better tell the guy who fitted the Datatool to my old K3 naked this, he may reward you with a clack round the chops. Never have I seen an alarm so inconspicuously and professionally fitted - every single connnection was made quite a way from where the original cable had been cut, and sometimes nowhere near where you'd expect it to be. When he reloomed all the old and new cables together you couldn't tell where Suzuki's efforts stopped and his started. It was a nightmare, and I'm certainly not one to shy away from electrical work - I spent 4 years of my working life managing a busy car alarm fitting workshop.
I worked out that nearly 2 metres of original wiring loom had been removed and replaced with alarm cables that were plain black. To remove the alarm and remake all the connections was just too much bother, so I simply got a replacement loom and fitted it from front to back, bit by bit removing the old one then fitting the new one as I worked my way up the frame from the headlight to the tail light
speedplay
14-07-09, 05:39 AM
Heres my old datatool s3:-
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt282/speedplay/03072009115.jpg
Its satisfying to see it lying on the ground dying!!
Although it did take a few hours wrapped up in a blanket to deaden the noise it was stil making!
Sid Squid
14-07-09, 06:56 AM
I take your point Lozzo, but I think you will agree that your experience is unusual, very few alarms are fitted in the obsessive manner that you describe.
thedonal
14-07-09, 09:20 AM
I take your point Lozzo, but I think you will agree that your experience is unusual, very few alarms are fitted in the obsessive manner that you describe.
I hope so! Gonna have to delay the job until I've got plenty of time on my hands (every job on the bike is like this- work out how long it takes to do the job. Double it, you might be getting close!)
I have the fitting instructions for the system 3 still. They came with the GSXR I bought, and I used it it to both remove and then refit the system to the SV. It really is straightforward, but if you need any help just ask.
thedonal
21-08-09, 06:15 PM
Well- the alarm finally packed up today. So I missed a meeting at work (had to travel to our warehouse down the road)- no major biggie. Just used my final free recovery with Carole Nash (until November- let's hope the bike's fine until then!!).
Looks like it was the negative lead for the battery terminal- it's come off the pcb now- I reckon it was probably just loose but has come right away. A result of the alarm being a bit knocked about.
So- finally, I will be removing it from the bike tomorrow, jumping up and down on it, setting fire to it, jumping up and down on the smouldering pieces and laughing like a maniac. Possibly I will just remove it- but there may be a youtube movie in the making!!
If I foul it up- Spannerman- do you do callout?!! lol :D
thedonal
22-08-09, 12:51 PM
Wahey- I no longer have an alarm in my bike.
It was surprisingly easy to do- quite chuffed, as it's one of the few bike jobs I've done that have taken as long or less time than expected.
And in time for F1 qualifying too.
Right- I'm off to watch Q3!
Sid Squid
24-08-09, 05:19 PM
It was surprisingly easy to do- quite chuffed, as it's one of the few bike jobs I've done that have taken as long or less time than expected.
I said that I did - wahay - I was right about something! :D
thedonal
24-08-09, 05:25 PM
Indeed- cheers Squiddy!
Now I've just got to get out of the habit of expecting to plip it before starting.
It'll make life at petrol stations easier and I can now switch bike off at level crossings with no faffing around!
Nice...
Does anyone know how to fit a Datatool S4 Cat1 alarm? I got the wiring manual and diagram but need some advice as it's a used alarm with no colours on the tags so bit tricky to figure unless you know the pinouts of the connectors. Thanks for any advice...
21QUEST
13-10-09, 09:50 AM
Yes, you have.
The alarm is fitted very simply,the connections simply need to be traced and removed from where they have been spliced into the bike's wiring. Most modern alarms also incorporate an immobiliser, the wiring for that is simple too, there will likely be two immobilising circuits, one that inhibits the starter system so it won't turn over and one that inhibits the ignition system so it won't run. In each case you will find a pair of wires from the alarm unit that have been inserted into a cut wire - the alarm has switches internally that now control whether these wires are continuous or not.
Alarm removal:
1) Find the alarm wires connected to the wiring loom, remove those which are simply spliced in.
2) Immobiliser wiring; you do not need to concern yourself with a wiring diagram or think about colours, simply find where the wires from the alarm unit enter the bike's loom, you will see that a given wire in the loom has been cut and each end connected to a black wire from the alarm, reconnect the original wires.
3) Make sure everything is suitably insulated and correctly reassembled.
4) Be pleased at how clever you are.
Thanks for this post. Moi, being someone that doesn't like messing about with electrics, gave me the confidence to tackle it :thumleft: Alarm is now out now and just a bid of soldering and taping back up left :D
One thing I'm not sure about is the resistor that is in line with a green wire(LHS subframe). Is that original or do I have to take that off?
Cheers
Ben
D Two Nine
22-10-09, 06:13 PM
:smt039Hello the name is Danie and sorry for the long story.
I have a problem with my datatool S4 cat 1.
Me and a mechanic mate was fitting a tail tidy and motrax indicators to Cilla, my SV650Sk5, When it came to testing that all was working I proceeded to disarm the alarm in order to turn the ignition on, i noticed that the hazards did not flash, I then could not start the bike so the immobilizer had obviously kicked in :smt089
When i turned the ignition off the bike proceeded to arm the alarm as normal within 45secs, but then the alarm went straight to distress mode and kept doing so even when trying to arm it through the key fob. In order for myself to not upset the neighbors I had to leve the ignition on over night disconnecting all lights as to reserve as much battery as possible. On return to the bike next day and connecting an external power supply to the battery did I notice that the Speedo clock lights were on but all digital info like time and millage was not displayed.
I have checked all fuses, none have blown.
I am now worried that the wire looming is finished.
I would prefer if poss to get all fixed and would rather not have to get rid of the alarm but what ever i decide to do its gonna cost money
What to do iam confused.com ](*,)
Gene genie
22-10-09, 06:30 PM
if not already done so check all the alarm original connections where they're spliced into the loom. had a similar problem with mine.
failing that rip the lot out and buy a big lock, chain and dog. i've found alarms to be a real pain.
failing that rip the lot out and buy a big lock, chain and dog. i've found alarms to be a real pain.
laaa laaa laaa
speedplay
22-10-09, 09:08 PM
failing that rip the lot out and buy a big lock, chain and dog. i've found alarms to be a real pain.
laaa laaa laaa
Have to agree with Gene Genie on this one TSM.
The best thing I did was remove the ones I've had.
(personal opinion of course)
Have to agree with Gene Genie on this one TSM.
The best thing I did was remove the ones I've had.
(personal opinion of course)
laa laa laa
if anyone looks to see what he wrote, clearly it seems he has been the cause of his own problem
ps. you live in the middle of nowhere, if i lived out in the stix then i bet i would not have an alarm on my bike, but unfortunatly not all of us are so lucky :)
speedplay
22-10-09, 09:12 PM
you live in the middle of nowhere, if i lived out in the stix then i bet i would not have an alarm on my bike, but unfortunatly not all of us are so lucky :)
Do I?!
Ask VT what the crime rate is for where I live...
Do I?!
Ask VT what the crime rate is for where I live...
yes but the insurance co's dont always look at it that way and its proly better than where i live, peckham
anywhere outside of london is the middle of nowhere :)
speedplay
22-10-09, 09:15 PM
yes but the insurance co's dont always look at it that way and its proly better than where i live, peckham
Its your choice to live there...
just as other people chocse to remove alarms ;)
Its your choice to live there...
just as other people chocse to remove alarms ;)
this is true, i never said dont remove it, but the general 'take it out as its not worth the money' or 'they all give problems' that is touted here for every question about peoples alarm is silly especialy as it seems to be said before anyone even tries to diagose problems. im sure if people did not need/want them, that they would take them out in the most part.
extreme view
oh, i have an engine problem....
'my engine gave me a problem, sling it out and get a new one, i did that and it was the best thing since sliced bread'
:)
speedplay
22-10-09, 09:23 PM
extreme view
oh, i have an engine problem....
'my engine gave me a problem, sling it out and get a new one, i did that and it was the best thing since sliced bread'
:)
Erm the bike will work without an alarm...not an engine ;)
Erm the bike will work without an alarm...not an engine ;)
yes it may be, so it was called an extreme view
its better that people can try and work out the problem first before being told to ripping it out from the outset, also when people say 'remove it' they dont go on to say 'you have to tell insurance company that you no longer have alarm' etc... and it may cost you more insurance
im sure that in the most part where people have issues with their alarm it can be worked out to be a bad connection that can be sorted with a bit of diagnosis
anyway, you get my point on this matter and i know yours
Dave20046
18-02-12, 01:30 PM
Yes, you have.
The alarm is fitted very simply,the connections simply need to be traced and removed from where they have been spliced into the bike's wiring. Most modern alarms also incorporate an immobiliser, the wiring for that is simple too, there will likely be two immobilising circuits, one that inhibits the starter system so it won't turn over and one that inhibits the ignition system so it won't run. In each case you will find a pair of wires from the alarm unit that have been inserted into a cut wire - the alarm has switches internally that now control whether these wires are continuous or not.
Alarm removal:
1) Find the alarm wires connected to the wiring loom, remove those which are simply spliced in.
2) Immobiliser wiring; you do not need to concern yourself with a wiring diagram or think about colours, simply find where the wires from the alarm unit enter the bike's loom, you will see that a given wire in the loom has been cut and each end connected to a black wire from the alarm, reconnect the original wires.
3) Make sure everything is suitably insulated and correctly reassembled.
4) Be pleased at how clever you are.
Quick thread resurrection, is it likely to be going off for the duration?
Sid Squid
19-02-12, 01:50 PM
Not if set to 'service mode', or whatever it's called on any given alarm.
Must say this:
Despite having given instruction on here as to how an alarm may be removed, I still wouldn't remove it unless the alarm unit itself had actually failed - which is very, very rare - the overwhelming majority of failures are wiring faults and are easily rectified.
Dave20046
19-02-12, 05:10 PM
I have no remote :(
Sid Squid
19-02-12, 06:26 PM
Well it'll squeal when you're working on it then - after a while the internal battery will die, or you can remove the front cover and disconnect the sounder - a two pin plug that you'll easily see.
Wrap the alarm in a towel or similar to avoid getting a headache.
Dave20046
19-02-12, 06:37 PM
Cheers sid, job for next weekend then
Dave20046
25-02-12, 05:57 PM
Yes, you have.
The alarm is fitted very simply,the connections simply need to be traced and removed from where they have been spliced into the bike's wiring. Most modern alarms also incorporate an immobiliser, the wiring for that is simple too, there will likely be two immobilising circuits, one that inhibits the starter system so it won't turn over and one that inhibits the ignition system so it won't run. In each case you will find a pair of wires from the alarm unit that have been inserted into a cut wire - the alarm has switches internally that now control whether these wires are continuous or not.
Alarm removal:
1) Find the alarm wires connected to the wiring loom, remove those which are simply spliced in.
2) Immobiliser wiring; you do not need to concern yourself with a wiring diagram or think about colours, simply find where the wires from the alarm unit enter the bike's loom, you will see that a given wire in the loom has been cut and each end connected to a black wire from the alarm, reconnect the original wires.
3) Make sure everything is suitably insulated and correctly reassembled.
4) Be pleased at how clever you are.
Somehow I'm struggling with this, I hurriedly tore out the alarm (it was going off and I was on my way back from the gym so complete with pikey wear)
I've now got about 4 datatool cables going into the loom. I was expecting wires to be cut and then the datatool to be spliced in to one end so it'd just be a case of rejoining wires but it doesn't really look like that's gone on.
I'll post a pic, if anyone's lucky enough to sus out what's going on in the picture - let me know if I'm being thick or not.
1 (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/dave20046/bike%20work/1be48c37.jpg)
2http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/dave20046/bike%20work/2aefabdd.jpg
3 (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/dave20046/bike%20work/9d82e3fb.jpg)
Dave20046
25-02-12, 06:01 PM
the two red end, consolidate into one then go into the loom near the rear light connections
The yellow tagged ones go down towards the main fuse
the white tagged ones go to an orange wire in the fusebox (ignition?) and there's a brown one I can't make out in the photo or remember where it goes to.
Bloody hate electrics, doubt anyone will able to sus it from photos, will hopefully have more luck tomorrow
deezzle
26-02-12, 01:42 AM
Which datatool system is this as i just bypassed a datatool vito evo (i believe that what its called) alarm/immobiliser unit. (I believe it was fitted from new onto my K1 SV)
If this is the system you have its very easy to bypass and will take 2 mins from when you reach the alarm.
regards and good luck
Dan
Dave20046
26-02-12, 11:05 AM
Mine,s a system 3,if that was directed at me
Dave20046
26-02-12, 08:13 PM
I dislike electrics.
Quick question, even though I have several unaccounted for wires the bike powers up etc. there's just nothing at the ignition switch - does this mean it's just a case of sorting out the ignition wire and potentially disregarding the rest.
Just trying to think of it simply to motivate myself..
Sid Squid
26-02-12, 09:07 PM
We need better pictures and you need to identify, (from a diagram), which wires the alarm has been spliced to, and what wires you have disconnected. When we have such info a reasonable stab at what is amiss can be made.
Specialone
26-02-12, 09:08 PM
I got you fb message dude.
As mr squid said, the alarm is basically a relay, a switch, so if the ignition or starter circuit are immobilised by the alarm then the 'switch' won't be made if disconnected.
What you need to is methodically work through every wire where it joins the loom or any electrical part of the bike.
Any you can't figure out, just post a pic up of how they are connected.
Dave20046
26-02-12, 09:16 PM
cheers guys, sure I've got a wiring diagram somewhere will try pull it up to identify the wires.
One's a solid orange coming from the fusebox (k3 sv650s) if it means anything to anyone
Specialone
26-02-12, 09:25 PM
The actual alarm unit will probably have a only have 1 perm live and one switched live, so I'm guessing the orange is the permanent live from the fuse box.
Dave20046
27-02-12, 02:40 PM
Well that was a bit more positive, a fresh,sober look at it taking onboard what you guys said about viewing the datatool as a simple switch helped. I found the two spliced wires that looked like they actually did anything and ignored the multiple others and inline fuses - hooked them up and now I get something on the ignition button*
I'm assuming the rest were just for drawing power to the alarm so once I've got it running will just neaten them up.
*it's making the sound of electricity arcing rapidly (or that's what it sounded like to me), but it did attempt to turn over once so I'm pretty sure it's just a case of dead battery now.
Sid Squid
27-02-12, 09:00 PM
Yay!
Specialone
27-02-12, 11:43 PM
Nice one Dave :)
thread resurrection time.
My wifes `05 plate sv was fitted with a datatool s3 alarm, and on and off for the past couple of years its been difficult to disarm, and has almost had to be left at work a few times recently.
I removed the alarm this evening, seemingly an easy job, but have 5 black wires with brown tracers.
one comes from a small connector block, the rest is populated by black wires with white tracer, another wire comes from the ignition fuse. 2 of my wires come out the main loom, fuel pump and ignition maybe? theres a 5 black wire with brown tracer crimped onto an orange wire with brown tracer, you can just about see mid left on the picture.
So far Ive blown 5 fuses, managed to get the fuel pump to prime but the bike wont fire up, connector block is just to make sure it runs before I solder and heatshrink.
Help would be really appreciated as im getting nowhere, and I thought it would be a simple reconnection job. Ive read loads of these threads but no one else mentions the issue with these wires.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l210/leebex/20150722_210948_zps0jkeccbg.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/leebex/media/20150722_210948_zps0jkeccbg.jpg.html)
Thanks, Lee
orange and brown is engine stop switch and should not be connected to a black wire, it should run all the way back to the main fuse box as orange/brown.
alarm fitters will use all sorts of colour coding or wire at hand so you need to trace every wire that comes from the alarm back to where the fitter has taped into the loom, some fitters will cut large sections out and replace with another colour and depending on the fitter will use only 1 colour for the whole job. then you need to find the other end of the colour that has been cut. its very very rare that you will find a colour change of wire and usually only after a multi plug connector.
i dont like the look of that black/brown wire.
the connector block is a ground point and should only have black/white going into it. black/white is the bikes main ground.
Thankyou for your reply bibio, I'll take off the tank and see where theres black brown wires go, I did wonder why my haynes wiring diagram didnt match to the bike loom. Would make life much easier if I had my sv still to compare to lol.
Theres a couple of badly crimped and taped connections to colours that dont look standard either near the rear come to think of it.
shiftin_gear98
23-07-15, 09:26 AM
Leebex, Have a look at page 4 of this - http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=210768&page=5
Trace all the wires back, and make sure you have bridged the two wires circled.
shiftin_gear98
23-07-15, 09:34 AM
I may be wrong as it was awhile ago, but the Black-Brown wires are the wires that lead up to the factory Alarm Connector block (top left of diagram - mine were this colour too). Yours looks like its been cut out and replaced. The only wires that are important once the alarm is off are the Orange-White going to the Ignition HT Coil and the Orange-Green going to the Mode Selector. When an alarm is not fitted the connector block must have a mating part that bridges these two. When the alarm is fitted it bridges these internally. You now need to re connect them. All the other Black-Brown wires do sweet FA. Good Luck
Oh and the dodgy connections with a crimp and tape are Suzuki factory spec....
one of those so called dodgy connections was my problem in the end. I had no fuel pump, connected one of those black with brown tracer wires to the orange with ? tracer and it fired up and ran as it should.
Soooo pleased. just got to tidy it all up tomorrow and refit the rear bodywork.
Thankyou for the replies for my cries of help lol .
shiftin_gear98
24-07-15, 06:34 AM
Glad you got if fixed, I remember stressing quite a lot at the time that my bike would never run again what with me hacking away at it.
Sodding alarms. Enjoy the freedom of it not bleeping at you when you look at it.
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