Could I earn a living? [Archive] - SV650.org

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 03:52 PM

Considering how things are going for me personally at the moment I am considering self employment.

Unsurprisingly this involves bikes, grease and spanners etc.

I am considering getting my car test passed and obtaining myself a 3 1/2 tonner, and setting myself up to do mobile motorcycle repairs and servicing, and bike transport. I don't mind any hours, or travelling, so long as it's paying.

Obviously I will need some manner of liability cover for this as well as business use cover on the van. Which at 21 and not yet holding a car license, will probably make my eyes water a bit.

I would need to cover overheads as well as £50 a week for me ma.

Throw your ideas in. Would anyone here pay someone to work outside their door? It would be a sight cheaper rate than dealers, perhaps a little less than the back-street small garage but not much.

plowsie

15-07-09, 03:53 PM

Yes I would pay, end of.

To ellaborate, what happens when I have fecked with my bike so much it won't start and I cannot get it to the garage. Whoooodya call, Yor-kie Chris! (Ghostbusters)

custard

15-07-09, 03:54 PM

thought about doing this myself. didnt get very far as i am slightly ham fisted with spanners.

if it was cheaper than a stealer why the hell not. you dont have to worry about getting back without a bike, or worry about getting a loaner.

people already do it with tyre fitting.

Graciepants

15-07-09, 03:56 PM

you might have to stop fixing bikes with beer bottle caps you find on the floor and duct tape, but i recon a lot of people would pay, and you;d have a brilliant rep off this site

(its still on my bike though!)

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 03:58 PM

I would also appreciate words from any number cruncher, legal eagle or self employed person as to what sort of overheads would be involved, do you have to be insured, to what extent etc.

I have "ride other bikes" cover on my own insurance for the SV, but to use this for test riding a job bike would be sailing rather close to the wind I think.

A few friends are self employed and have taken me through some of the vagaries and robberies of dealing with HMRC.

shifter

15-07-09, 03:59 PM

Being self employed is cool as long as the work is there and your bean counter is up to scratch.
You just have to pay your national insurance by derect debit. You can claim loads of stuff off your tax bill as well. Clothes, tools, mileage, %age of your phone bill and because you use a room at home as your office even a %of the rent!
Get it spot on you'll probably get a tax rebait!

SoulKiss

15-07-09, 03:59 PM

I think anything is possible.

If you can specialise in doing services in the car-park at peoples work for example, that would be a good market - people dont have to worry about getting to work from garages or whatever :)

Call H&R Insurance Brokers - I use them for my Bike insurance, but they dont specialise in just that - they do all kinds of insurance including business and liability - they should be able to give you an idea on total costs for insuring your business.

What is there to lose really, as long as you dont get into too much debt setting it up it cant really go badly wrong.

Spiderman

15-07-09, 04:00 PM

The Cavalry are a mobile tyre fitting service which i have had to use more than once sadly. But the fact he came to me, brough all his own tools and did the work outside where i could ply him with cups of tea and also learn a bit about what he was doing was well worth paying for in my mind.
So i guess if you could add mobile tyre fitting to the service too then you'd be covering all the bases.

Liability insurance is only a couple of hundred quid a year i think. Wll that what out fitters (bathroom/kitchens) used to pay for their public liability and it covered them up to £5m which if you're working outdoors might even be too much. Whats the worst that you can do but torch a bike and a couple of surrounding cars, maybe a house too before the big red engine arrives. Still less than £5m worth of damage i'd say ;)

Seriously tho, the main hurdle when considering setting up on your own is the competition. Who else is doing what you would do. What makes you more desirable than them to the biking public. How will you advertise your services without costing the earth. A lot to consider tbh.

El Saxo

15-07-09, 04:02 PM

Knowing you from the .Org and trusting your know-how etc, I would be more than happy to have you work on my bike. It'd probably be the 'bigger' and more complicated jobs as I'm happy doing most of the servicing myself & fixing the odd thing that goes wrong, but when it comes to stuff like valve clearances and any major jobs, I am happier getting someone who knows their stuff to do it, or at least show me how...

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 04:05 PM

So i guess if you could add mobile tyre fitting to the service too then you'd be covering all the bases.

I've been thinking about this, there is the added expense of getting rid of the old tyres. But I could certainly do it.

I'm not entirely sure I could compete on price with the local guy though when factoring in a gallon or 2 of diesel to get there...

SoulKiss

15-07-09, 04:10 PM

I've been thinking about this, there is the added expense of getting rid of the old tyres. But I could certainly do it.

I'm not entirely sure I could compete on price with the local guy though when factoring in a gallon or 2 of diesel to get there...

Dont rule out doing tyres, but dont make it a main part of the business then.

PM Spannerman btw - hes far enough away to not be competition, so I dare say he will give you the low-down on running a bike garage type business.

fizzwheel

15-07-09, 04:10 PM

Its something I'd consider using if it was priced appropriately.

If I take my GSXR to the dealer I have to get a loaner to get back to work or take a day off.

If I take it the local bike shop I can walk back to work, but on a hot day its not nice walking a mile or so in leathers.

For exampe, If I rode to work on my GSXR and then you came to my workplace and did the service in the work carpark you'd be onto a winner and its definately a service I'd use.

But It'd be a bit of a trek for you to do that ;) but you get the idea

Alpinestarhero

15-07-09, 04:11 PM

I think this would work. If a technician is very competant and charges fairly, then word of mouth will get that eprson lots of work.

From what everyone says on here, and from what I know about you, your knowledge is not easily rivalled - therefore, I think that you can make a good business out of it. For your present "customers", the peace of mind knowing that not only will you be able to fix their bikes, but also either repair at the roadside OR recover the bike, means they are more likley to keep coming back.

Try it, see how it goes. I think you stand a good chance of being sucessfull.

Spiderman

15-07-09, 04:12 PM

I'm not entirely sure I could compete on price with the local guy though when factoring in a gallon or 2 of diesel to get there...

The Cavalry guy, Jim his name is, told me he gets his tyres from FWR and will just add £20 to the price of the tyre and that will cover him coming out to me and fitting it too.
I;m sure he has a deal with FWR where he pays trade prices for his tyres and hence the £20 is not all he earns.

Also dont forget you litterlay have a captive market there. If i'm stranded at home with a flat what options do i have? Pump it up and hope it holds till i get to a tyre shop. Recovery wont come out to get me as its at home. So do i take the wheel off and take a cab or public transport to the tyre shop and back, costing way more than the extra £20 Jim is quoting?
Simple economics and laziness say stay at home and ring the bloke who comes to me. I dont mind gettin my hands dirty and understand most thing on my bike but i'd never be able to do what Jim could do for me as efficiently as he does.

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 04:15 PM

Does he use a tyre changing machine, or manual levers?

Spiderman

15-07-09, 04:20 PM

Jim? levers and little bottles of diluted washing up liquid...which he asked me to top up cos he'd run out.
And he does all this on a bike mate!!! i'll dig out the pic i have of it and post it up later. He even manages to get a ful sized bottle of compressed air on their too :shock:

15-07-09, 04:39 PM

Chris - your overheads would be fairly low but with one or two high items - being insurance. You don't need public liability insurance but you would be well advised to have it - for example, if you did something wrong and a wheel fell off. Typically you'd need around £2m - £5m per claim. Sounds a lot but if someone is seriously injured you would need it. And get the excess as low as possible! And put aside some £££ to cover the excess just in case you have a claim. I don't think that this would be tax deductible as there would be no actual liability, it's just a contingent liability, but do it for peace of mind.

You would also be well advised to have product liability cover - maybe insurers do a joint cover, I don't know - which would cover you against claims of defective workmanship. Get a digi camera and take pics of peoples bikes before you start work so if they say you scratched it you can prove that you didn't. You could do with some T&Cs also - you could probably find some on the net - just make sure they're B2C ones, as if you're dealing with a consumer you can't exclude certain things.

Obviously you would need van insurance for class A business use. That won't be cheap and will likely be one of the biggest overheads. Much as my professional indemnity is one of my largest overheads.

You won't need employer liability cover unless you have employees. Gentle hint - don't have any...

You must register with HMRC as self employed within 3 months of setting up else you get whacked with penalties. They will bombard you with meaningless forms - P35s mainly - which is a return of employees - don't ignore them, do a nil return if nec as else there is a £100 fine. HMRC are very good at dishing out totally unjustified fines.

Don't think you'd need to register with anyone else. If you are carrying waste oil or tyres etc you might need a waste carrier licence and a waste disposal licence - it's an offence to use the local tip for commercial purposes. Yes someone would have to find out but if the staff see you there regular as clockwork then they will report you, and besides there are so many people out there who would delight in seeing you prosecuted - eg your copmpetitors. You wouldn't ideally want to leave waste oil with a customer for them to get rid of. Worth investigating whether trade bodies can give you any help. Ask your accountant about whether you can claim capital allowances against the cost of your van, tools etc.

Do a business plan. Think about how much money you will need to earn. Think too about how people usually want to pay - card - which means having a card reader. Barclays will try to fob you off with paying you 3 weeks after you take the money, apparently this is 'security', you obviously need to tell them to go forth.

And then think about where the work - and the money - is coming from. Doing this sort of work means living in or near a large centre of population with a lot of bikes.

It sounds exciting to set up but do remember that being self employed is damn hard work. In the winter time there might be little work around, so can you subbie for someone else? How can you keep the ship afloat? And above all, have a contingency plan.

Ed

dirtydog

15-07-09, 04:39 PM

Liability insurance is only a couple of hundred quid a year i think. Wll that what out fitters (bathroom/kitchens) used to pay for their public liability and it covered them up to £5m which if you're working outdoors might even be too much.

Costs me a tad under £250 for liability insurance.

If there was a service like that around here for bikes I would probably use it for the bigger jobs.
Have done the same sort of thing on my car before, called out a mobile mechanic to do all the brakes on my car, I could've done done it myself but cost wise it was cheaper than the garage and I stayed at home sorting out paperwork etc

SoulKiss

15-07-09, 04:41 PM

Does he use a tyre changing machine, or manual levers?

Something that I saw that was pretty cool was the van the revocery guy came to pick my SV up with after its off.

I was all ready to offer him a hand to get the bike up into it, but no-need, it had been modified so that the whole of the rear bed/floor of the van could be lowered to the ground, it didnt have a rear axle.

He just pressed the button, let it down, wheeled the bike on the level, then raised it again.

now if you could combine that with straps to the roof of the van you could wheel bikes in, raise the floor, sling the bike on straps then drop the floor again - no need for paddock stands :)

punyXpress

15-07-09, 04:46 PM

timwilky

15-07-09, 04:46 PM

There is a local guy who does mobile bike repairs, has done for some years and got a good rep. So obviously makes a living out of it.

He has quite a large van on which he has a floor mounted bike bench, a tail lift, and a diesel engined compressor, generator to give him power for tools, but mostly air tools.

There are mega padlocks on his van and kept in a locked up garage when not in use as he has been broken into a couple of times

wyrdness

15-07-09, 04:50 PM

Spidey's got a really good point here. For flat tyres, you've got a captive market and fitting tyres for stranded bikers could be a very good way to build up a customer base for larger jobs such as servicing.

Also dont forget you litterlay have a captive market there. If i'm stranded at home with a flat what options do i have? Pump it up and hope it holds till i get to a tyre shop. Recovery wont come out to get me as its at home. So do i take the wheel off and take a cab or public transport to the tyre shop and back, costing way more than the extra £20 Jim is quoting?
Simple economics and laziness say stay at home and ring the bloke who comes to me. I dont mind gettin my hands dirty and understand most thing on my bike but i'd never be able to do what Jim could do for me as efficiently as he does.

Daimo

15-07-09, 04:51 PM

Spanner monkey is a great idea to start....

But when it comes to program faults etc, you'll need the specific manufacture Tech units, which a few grand, each..... For each manufacture....

Not so easy then.

But if you've got some tools, put an ad up for emergency motorcycle re[air and see how it goes...

Can't only go bankrupt, and have to start again... Sometimes, this aint sucha bad idea :lol:

cF^

15-07-09, 04:54 PM

From as far back as I can remember, my Uncle has been self employed and has been financially stable.
Previously he's run fairly large computer businesses but currently runs a motorbike servicing and repair business out of his massive shed/office/workshop in his back garden.
He offers free pickup of motorcycles in the local area instead of working on someones driveway, which also enables him to do bigger jobs I guess.
Any spare time is spent buying cheap bikes or parts, doing em up and selling on e-bay as far as I can tell!
So i'm sure it can be done, good luck if you decide to go ahead :)

Alpinestarhero

15-07-09, 04:58 PM

Spidey's got a really good point here. For flat tyres, you've got a captive market and fitting tyres for stranded bikers could be a very good way to build up a customer base for larger jobs such as servicing.

and for some other things, like replacing broken cables at the roadside. Lots of people have needed recovery because their clutch cable snaps, which is only a 10 minute job to replace (if that)

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 05:00 PM

If you happen to have one.

Sally

15-07-09, 05:06 PM

Recovery, Spannering and Tyre Fitting.

See, thats a plan :)

Spiderman

15-07-09, 05:08 PM

which no-one ever has, so they'd call a man who can fix it rather than get their bikes recovered home and still have the same issue with a bike sitting outside their house.
My bike is my only form of transport so i'd still be buggered, however others who have other bikes/cars may just take the recovery option if they enjoy waiting at the side of the road for a couple of hours that is.

gruntygiggles

15-07-09, 05:10 PM

Go for it if yo can answer yes to these questions:-

Can you commit to writing a simple business plan?

Can you invest £3-5k to cover start up costs and have cash available for ins. excess/unforseen costs?

Would you be willing to work 7 days a week?

Can you keep on top of paperwork/reciept/invoice/purchase forms etc?

Can you offer something that no-one else in your area can....your USP (unique selling point)?

The reason I ask these questions is that you need to be totally committed if you want to make, even a modest living from being self employed and you need to be organised and able to keep on top of your paperwork to avoid fines and nasty tax bills.

If you can offer something extra to your customers, above and beyond anyone nearby, you'll give yourself an edge. Here in Bristol there is a guy that does mobile motorcycle servicing and he used to work for one of the MotoGP teams. He's got a great reputation and has a waiting list for servicing as he's so busy. He makes a great living, charges a set price for a service and charges 50p per mile outside of a 10 mile radius. He quotes on the final cost, including travel before the booking is made so that there are no nasty suprises for the customers.

He also offers, as his USP, personal set up consultations. So......for either £40 + travel or £20 if you've also had a service, he'll watch you ride up and down a road a few times, weigh you and measure you, discuss your riding style and what you do on the bike (track days/aggressive riding/commuting/regular pillion) and he'll set the bike up for you. Not just the suspension, he'll set everything to ensure you get the best fro your bike for the way you ride.

So.....have a really good think about it and I'll say the same to you that I've said to others starting out on their own........keep working at least part time until you can support yourself through the business month in, month out. That way, you can mitigate the risk of going it alone and have extra funds to support yourself.

Good luck with it and go and see what courses are around. Also......go into your local tax advisors like Norton tax shops. Don't agree to use them or sign anything, but ask their advice!

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 05:11 PM

very useful stuff

That is exactly the sort of info I need.

So, now I have some ideas as to why it is a good idea, and could work. Now put your thinking caps on and tell me why it is a bad idea and won't work.

Spiderman

15-07-09, 05:16 PM

Already established comptetitors

Advertising in the right places to get noticed

Winter work, will you really wanna be outside in the cold & rain spannering or will you turn work away cos of it?

dizzyblonde

15-07-09, 05:20 PM

A: go and ask Pat
B: get yo a$$ up ere, you only needed to rev the rat
C: errrr work..you..serious...yeah, then you can buy me lots of biscuits to fill my cupboards with:smt110

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 05:48 PM

dizzyblonde

15-07-09, 05:55 PM

you have to have an exceptionally detailed plan, not one thats off the back of a fag packet. Different I know, but for my bro to run the pub he has, he'd never even written a business plan before, Matt helped him out a fair bit, and there were some pointers to be found on the net.
It turned out to be very detailed with projections of all sorts of areas within the pub (he did have a head start as the old manager had given him the books to look at)

fizzwheel

15-07-09, 05:59 PM

IBusiness plan, nothing is certain as this is an idea at the moment. How detailed a plan?

Dunno, but I am reasonably sure that most banks have a small business advisor that may be able to help you out with what you'll need in order to get started so that might be worth a try.

One tip I'd give you, My dad used to run his own business, dont feck about when it comes to book keeping / vat / tax etc etc, My dad used to pay somebody so much a month and she looked after his books and did his tax returns etc etc, IMHO its worth spending out on that, leaves you free to concentrate on doing the spannering etc etc.

sarah

15-07-09, 06:01 PM

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk

dizzyblonde

15-07-09, 06:09 PM

One tip I'd give you, My dad used to run his own business, dont feck about when it comes to book keeping / vat / tax etc etc, My dad used to pay somebody so much a month and she looked after his books and did his tax returns etc etc, IMHO its worth spending out on that, leaves you free to concentrate on doing the spannering etc etc.

my dad had cheap labour....my mum:p

behind Einstein was his wife doing the maths:study:

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 06:14 PM

Helpfully my stepmother is an accountant.

My question is, why would I "have" to have a plan, I do not intend to borrow money.

dizzyblonde

15-07-09, 06:23 PM

My question is, why would I "have" to have a plan, I do not intend to borrow money.

Its shows you want to go the distance, and you are serious about wanting to set up business. Surely though you need to borrow money, initially for a van, for proper tools, to actually look like a mobile mech rather than dodgy joe shmo, with a rusty transit etc etc. Its not as if your rolling in brass now is it?

Spiderman

15-07-09, 06:24 PM

if you dont need to borrow then i dont thing you have to tho having one is a usefull thing as it helps you focus on the individual issues you may otherwise overlook.

many years ago when i ventured into having my own busines my bank had a Business Plan that was basically lots of blank sheets with headings that were apropriate and some helpfull calculations you should make mothly etc.
made me realise there was a lot i could ignore and also a lot i was completely unaware of.

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 06:33 PM

I'm not happy with the risks of borrowing quite simply.

I'd rather knock about in a rustbucket, so if it all goes totally tits up, no work, van gets nicked etc etc. I'm not left with an insurance excess to pay, a load of debt outstanding and no recompense.

OTOH doing it from saved money, normally bought, I don't have some tossuer of a bank manager to answer to, neither do I have to worry about covering any cost of capital. The only worry I need have is to cover my own overheads and £200 a month board at home...

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 06:34 PM

Specialone

15-07-09, 06:36 PM

Helpfully my stepmother is an accountant.

My question is, why would I "have" to have a plan, I do not intend to borrow money.

You dont.
When i went self employed i didnt borrow any money, didnt do a plan as such, just kinda decided in my head where i wanted to take the business and its evolved over time, ie i have dropped some services, added others.

Main things running any business in order IMO.
1, Be damn good at what you do.
2, Stand by any work you carry out, if theres a problem after you finished the work, sort it, no question, even if it costs you.
3, Turn up when you say your gonna turn up or call them and let them know your gonna be late, dont just not turn up.
4, Remember, any business expense generally will come off your tax bill so dont be afraid to buy good kit, re-invest any profit when required because in the long run, good kit will probably get the job done quicker and/or better.
5, Take time to talk to customers, idle chit chat helps the customer get to know you and then they are more inclined to come back to you for repeat business as long as you have stuck to items 1,2,3.

Hope this helps, has me !

ArtyLady

15-07-09, 07:09 PM

... Would anyone here pay someone to work outside their door? ....

Definately - my OH is a mobile car mechanic....may take you a while to build up a client base though, but worth a try :cool:

flymo

15-07-09, 07:50 PM

Have a word with Mototech also, he runs his own family car servicing business from mobile/home I think specialising in Alfas.

The business plan thing is a good idea simply because it guides you through all the necessary things that need thinking about if you are to increase your chances of succeeding. Sometimes skill and determination alone are not enough to run a good business and so a well thought through business plan will allow you to understand where you are weak and perhaps need outside help.

Many startup businesses fail but mostly because thay have no real plan, as you work through creating one you need to be realistic about its chances of succeeding, about the amount of work you can bring in and about the income it will provide after expenses. Well worth the effort in the long run.

Dave20046

15-07-09, 08:47 PM

I think you could do well If I was you I'd cover as many aspects as possible and use the 'on your doorstep' factor as our USP/niché - don't narrow down your business too much. If you get the van/flat bed you could do owt; mobile repairs,servicing, roadside assistance/recovering, tyre swaps, bike delivery, oversseing people fixing their own bikes, fork rebuilds etc. etc. - in the economic climate I think this'd be your best bet. Jobs for graduates are far between at the mo so I'd say with such low overheads and your degree secure/done with it's a safe bet.
You're going to have to work ****ing hard in the first couple of years/getting yourself established. Also set aside some money for a cheap website/favour from a geek And for yellow pages/phone book & other advertising + a good stock of gaffa & W-D. I think legal sorts would be able to advise you whether to go under a ltd.company or down the self employed route

Dave20046

15-07-09, 08:54 PM

Main things running any business in order IMO.
1, Be damn good at what you do.
2, Stand by any work you carry out, if theres a problem after you finished the work, sort it, no question, even if it costs you.
3, Turn up when you say your gonna turn up or call them and let them know your gonna be late, dont just not turn up.
4, Remember, any business expense generally will come off your tax bill so dont be afraid to buy good kit, re-invest any profit when required because in the long run, good kit will probably get the job done quicker and/or better.
5, Take time to talk to customers, idle chit chat helps the customer get to know you and then they are more inclined to come back to you for repeat business as long as you have stuck to items 1,2,3.

Hope this helps, has me !

+1 , number 5 is worth redrilling in there. Customers aren't used to gettng the time of day from anyone these days, if you get the knack of being friendly, appearing knowledgeible and being helpful but not tooo helpful and not wasting your time this'll be a massive benefit to you.

arcdef

15-07-09, 09:01 PM

Before i post this i will admit that i have only skimmed the other posts, however i looked into starting one of those fancy car cleaning companies (the kind that charge £££££s to polish your cars etc) and found that public liability insurance to protect against damage of customers cars was actually really cheap, to the tune of less that £20 a month for nearly £1 million. Not sure if that was accurate as was just a internet quote but shouldnt be too much.

One thing that may catch you out will be insurance for the van as not only will you be pretty young but with no previous experience in a car etc and being for business use may cost the earth.

Again im sorry if those points have been covered.

markmoto

15-07-09, 09:02 PM

my mate does just this, he has a kitted out iveco van, but he has been a bike mechanic for many years, aint cheap to set up and you have to know your stuff or you will get yourself in trouble bikes are becoming more and more sophisticated. its a good idea and there is good money to be made, the main cost is initial set up costs i,e van, compressor tyre machine if you want it all doable under £10k once thats sorted its realy just insurance on your van and if you want to get liability insurance that aswell but this isnt essencial. being 21 and not having a car license is by far your biggest hurdle, i work for myself but i do mostly cars if you want a chat feel free to pm me.

I never did a business plan, as its very simple 1/get the work 2/do it well 3/turn up on time and be firm but nice with the customers it, will take about three years to get enough customers and repeat business to earn good money, when i started i had all my main tools and just added to them as i grew compressors, diagnostic tools etc. my mate struggled at first as we all do but he now has a good business going.

If you want a chat about anything then just pm me and im sure i can offer you some advice, nothing like being yor own boss i wouldnt change it for the world :-)

arcdef

15-07-09, 09:04 PM

If you happen to have one.
could keep supplies similar to that in this (http://www.hein-gericke.co.uk/shop/product_info.php/products_id/6422)would get them on their way and should last long enough to get it replaced properly.

markmoto

15-07-09, 09:12 PM

reading through the posts there, some good advice here chris, as already said its the insurance thats going to hit you hard.

JamesMio

15-07-09, 09:26 PM

My tuppence worth - Do it!! You're 21 years old, if it doesn't work out, you can do something else!

I'm not exactly an old codger (at 28) but if you think you can do it (and there are certainly enough people on here that think you can btw), do it - what have you got to lose?

Have a word with a decent local accountant, and try to speak to people at your local business gateway (if you've got such a thing down there?) you might even qualify for start up grants etc to help you get kitted out with tools etc.

Do it!

lukemillar

15-07-09, 09:37 PM

You know, this would mean you would have to clean your own bike. Company image and all :wink:

punyXpress

15-07-09, 11:16 PM

If you happen to have one.

You can get cable on reels - inner & outer so with a selection of nipples make to measure ( or use nipples from foobarred ones ) Job jobbed.
Just a couple of points:
1 ) Don't eat all their biscuits
2 ) Bite the bullet & work on pointies.

yorkie_chris

15-07-09, 11:22 PM

I do work on pointies, and even on h*ndas.
I just take the p*ss out of them on here a lot!

Regarding bikes being more and more complicated. Sadly this is true, but I am not too proud to turn down work if I am not confident doing it. I'd rather miss £20 of wages than knacker a £200 part!
Obviously this is not good for image, but I would rather be known as honest and not liking electronics than "that clumsy muppet".

Regarding modern EFI and "stuff", this is a big hole in my knowledge at the moment, but I'm working on it. (Lots of forum lurking and service manual bedtime reading...). And tearing down any of my mates modern bikes that they will let me near hehe.

timwilky

16-07-09, 12:00 AM

stewie

16-07-09, 05:22 AM

Seeing as I know you, have met you and trust you Id say a big yes mate, go for it, one thing I picked up on though ids do you really need a 3.5 tonner ? why not a smaller van and poss a 2/3 bike trailer ? anyway thats all I have to say good luck Chris.
p.s. I know someone selling a van at work for £400, r reg escort, but meant to be reliable and cheap to run.

600+

16-07-09, 06:56 AM

My local dealer charges £35 an hour if I remember correctly. Would you be able to come to me (in M'cr) do 1hrs work on my bike with no parts required and then make a profit?

Reason I'm asking is because I belong to the category of customers that are not rich but value their time. With running a business and a FT job at the same time the day doesn't have enough hours for me!! So when my grip was getting stack because the linkage needed lubricating I couldn't afford spending 2hrs to take the bike apart and do this myself. So I paid £35 and had the dealer do it.

So what area would you cover and what would be your minimum pay for a job in order to make yourself some money? This is just another question to ask yourself, no need to provide me with an answer.

Would I have a mobile mechanic do work on my bike? Depends on the feedback as you have to also bare in mind that you are mobile, i.e. if something goes wrong where do I find you? A location is very important to customers as well.

markmoto

16-07-09, 12:30 PM

Chris

Would I commission work from you? Of course not. I am far too tight to pay a tyke to do a job I can do myself.

Hear lies the rub. Exactly what is your target customer as a mobile mechanic? Either the mechanically incompetent or the loads of money I cannot be bothered type. Other than that you have those with a champagne taste and a shandy budget and think because you are mobile they should pay lemonade prices.

I would suggest that you would be better off with a well equipped industrial unit where you can do repairs and offer a free collection/delivery service. That way you have the best of both worlds.

There are quite a few pitfalls of running a garage operation from premises as oposed to mobile, one of them is that you legaly require another employee this is incase you have an accident and need help obvioiusly if your on your own there is noone to help or call an ambulance makes sense realy, another is the cost of rent and bills to pay not cheap.
Also there is extra insurance to cover premises. Mobile and from home is by far the cheapest option, its all about going that extra mile for people, doing a good job for a fair price dont need to be the cheapest but do the best job.
word of mouth and referals is worth many times more an advert in a paper, btw yellow pages is rubbish.

yorkie_chris

16-07-09, 12:33 PM

A friend of mine has been working on his own for nearly 20 years! It would bankrupt him tomorrow if he was legally required to employ some other nugget in case he cuts his finger or something!

dizzyblonde

16-07-09, 12:59 PM

You know, this would mean you would have to clean your own bike. Company image and all :wink:

now this is probably one of Chris's stubborn pitfalls, much as he loves to declare that his bike is completely mechanically fit for the road, people see face value and would turn and run if they saw the state of it. I certainly wouldn't want him working on my bike, if I didn't already know him.

Chris

Would I commission work from you? Of course not. I am far too tight to pay a tyke to do a job I can do myself.

Hear lies the rub. Exactly what is your target customer as a mobile mechanic? Either the mechanically incompetent or the loads of money I cannot be bothered type. Other than that you have those with a champagne taste and a shandy budget and think because you are mobile they should pay lemonade prices.

I would suggest that you would be better off with a well equipped industrial unit where you can do repairs and offer a free collection/delivery service. That way you have the best of both worlds.

I do think Tim has a point here, very blunt, but very honest. As I said last night, I seriously think you should knock the idea on the head for a while, and get a job,save up a wedge then think some more.....then buy me some nice biscuits, and some crisps, and some tea bags, and some nice dinners, there wouldn't be an excuse for being a poor student anymore:smt042

carty

16-07-09, 01:00 PM

If you offer a recovery service or any sort of collection / delivery service do you have anywhere you can store bikes? Would you just do 9-5 recovery or 24hr? Could have people ringing you at 3am saying they're stranded on the M1 hard shoulder?!

ophic

16-07-09, 01:19 PM

I don't quite agree here. I think that many bikers are semi-competent mechanically - they can do the basic spanner jobs, but wouldn't be able to do the more complicated ones - eg engine internals - or anything that requires special tools. Being as they do most of their own servicing, they won't have a relationship with a garage, therefore won't be offered a courtesy bike - this then leads to all kinds of logistics issues in order to get their bike to the garage - having to arrange someone to collect you, time off work etc.

Having someone that could pop round either at home in the evening/weekend or during the day in the office car park would be a godsend, especially if he also beats the dealers on price/service/friendliness etc. The last bit is, sometimes semi-competent bike owners will want to watch what you do to either make sure its done properly and/or learn a bit about what you're doing. I'd pay to have someone come round and advise, and possibly loan me a tool. Also a sideline of someone reliable who I can just phone up and say "can you get me this part" and have the confidence that he won't charge the earth, and will bring it round the next day.

YC you'd have an occasional customer here. My valve clearances will need doing in another 7000 miles... :p

Whether there's enough business in this niche to make a living from, i can't say. Also rain can be an issue when working outside - but could you stash a large tent of some sort in your van?

I would suggest, get a day job, get a cheap van, and do it evening/weekends and see where it goes from there. You'll be able to gauge the levels of business from this.

Chris

Would I commission work from you? Of course not. I am far too tight to pay a tyke to do a job I can do myself.

Hear lies the rub. Exactly what is your target customer as a mobile mechanic? Either the mechanically incompetent or the loads of money I cannot be bothered type. Other than that you have those with a champagne taste and a shandy budget and think because you are mobile they should pay lemonade prices.

I would suggest that you would be better off with a well equipped industrial unit where you can do repairs and offer a free collection/delivery service. That way you have the best of both worlds.

yorkie_chris

16-07-09, 01:33 PM

Tim, a local guy here has a unit down the road, he pays £350 a month plus business rates on top of that.

I don't think I could handle overheads that high, at least doing it mobile with a van, if I fall off my bike (I am due a big one soon I think...) I would only have to break a minor bone, and I'd be bust.
At least mobile, with the lower overheads it would be easy to let the insurance etc. lapse and have no expenses.

flymo

16-07-09, 01:36 PM

I think there are plenty of people out there who 'think' they can properly service their own bikes, the problem is getting them to part with some cash to let you do it.

Providing good technical advice on a forum like this is one thing but then when it becomes your own commercial business you very quickly become interested in how long things take. Hanging around showing somebody how to check their valve clearances is going to cost you more to do than to simply get on and do it, at the same time potentially doing yourself out of future business by training your customers not to need you.

I think the key to winning business in this category is to be very clear about services you offer, not just a 'per hour' cost but by listing example services you give people an easy list to select from with a fixed cost plus parts.

Perhaps services such as a major or minor service, a chain and sprocket swap, a tyre change, brake caliper rebuild/service etc.

The first list item attracts the cost of the call out and then additional services simply add to the list. If the job takes you longer than expected then you absorb the cost not the customer. If you did that I think you would gain business from the local garage sceptics who think that the per hour rate is an unknown cost that can spiral.

If I were a person who had a bike but didnt really have the tools or the knowledge to do some of the above I would certainly consider buying a number of service options from a mobile mechanic.

yorkie_chris

16-07-09, 01:44 PM

Flymo I like that idea.

Hear lies the rub. Exactly what is your target customer as a mobile mechanic? Either the mechanically incompetent or the loads of money I cannot be bothered type. Other than that you have those with a champagne taste and a shandy budget and think because you are mobile they should pay lemonade prices.
[QUOTE]

I'm familiar with the shandy budget lot from working on students cars :smt075

If given a quote on the phone for work needing to be done I don't think this will be a particular problem.

My target market would be people who want a fair job doing at a fair price rather than paying dealer rates. Whether that be through incompetence or laziness I'm not too fussed!

[QUOTE=stewie;1973829]Seeing as I know you, have met you and trust you Id say a big yes mate, go for it, one thing I picked up on though ids do you really need a 3.5 tonner ? why not a smaller van and poss a 2/3 bike trailer ? anyway thats all I have to say good luck Chris.
p.s. I know someone selling a van at work for £400, r reg escort, but meant to be reliable and cheap to run.

I could cope with a smaller one, but a big one would be more versatile as could carry 2 bikes inside plus tools and parts. I dunno if a smaller one would be that much cheaper to insure as lets face it transits and astramax's and stuff get crashed a lot!

My local dealer charges £35 an hour if I remember correctly. Would you be able to come to me (in M'cr) do 1hrs work on my bike with no parts required and then make a profit?

Would I have a mobile mechanic do work on my bike? Depends on the feedback as you have to also bare in mind that you are mobile, i.e. if something goes wrong where do I find you? A location is very important to customers as well.

It is about 30 miles for me to the center of manchester. At least 45 minutes to 1 hour. So if I charged £30 I would be cheaper than dealer, working at your door/works car park and earning £7/hour (if van does 30mpg at £4.50/gallon.).
I could live with that, just about, but Manchester is about as far as I would go without adding something onto the price for travelling also.

mcsmarts

16-07-09, 01:50 PM

ha this si what i started doing with smart cars, started doing it at me house, then other peoples houses and now my garage has been running for just over two years

go for it and dont look back

stewie

16-07-09, 02:34 PM

If you are going for a van that size you might want to consider one with a tail lift, a 1 tonne rated tail lift will sort most bikes out I would imagine, something like this maybe http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-transit-190-Luton-high-top-van-with-tail-lift_W0QQitemZ220450918781QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mmercial_Trucks?hash=item3353e6117d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2122|293%3A1| 294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-transit-190-Luton-high-top-van-with-tail-lift_W0QQitemZ220450918781QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co mmercial_Trucks?hash=item3353e6117d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2122%7C 293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

Edit: sorry for huge link, but you get the picture

stewie

16-07-09, 02:40 PM

Other thing to consider as well is have you someplace safe and secure to park it ? some residential areas have restrictions on commercial vehicles being used or parked up, I know we have, it may not seem important ut it could be in the event of an insurance claim, I could be completely wrong there, probably am but it may be worth checking out, btw thought you were still at uni doing engineering ?

stewie

16-07-09, 02:45 PM

One other thing that might earn you a few bob without getting your hands dirty, vehicle inspections for potential buyers, you know someone wants to a bike but not sure if its sound or not, you go round with him tell him its Ok or not, give him an idea if its worth it or not, you get paid whether he buys the bike or not.

timwilky

16-07-09, 02:54 PM

My brother spent two years trying to make it as a mobile mechanic, (cars and trucks). When time were difficult, he would drive up the m6/m61 etc looking for people obviously in distress on the hard shoulder, pull over and offer assistance.

If they were not with a recovery service most would accept as it saved them £100 to get pulled off the motorway. But back to bikes.

The issue with being a mobile mech is trust. You need to have a decent van well preped and equipped, properly sign written with more than a mobile contact number. Would you trust somebody you did not know to put your bike in their van and assume they will give it back etc.

Like I said earlier the guy round here has a tail lift van, fitted out with a bike bench, compressor etc. Whilst he is doing a job, it is not unknown for him to have to sod off for parts. Would you want to see your bike in bits disappearing down the road in the back of a van on the promise that I will be back in an hour.

A small industrial unit is a liability, but it does also give you a presence where people know they can find you. Where you can securely keep your stuff etc. I know you are looking at a couple of hundred a month upkeep. But a decent van alone is going to cost more than the first years rent and will only deprieciate.

orose

16-07-09, 05:03 PM

One thing I was shown from my latest trip home on the back of a wagon was the amount of stuff that you'd need for EFI. Obviously the AA setup was cars mostly, but the diagnostics laptop on its own was probably 4 grand (one of those toughbooks, plus the various plugs to hook it to the car)

I think you'd need exclusive use of a garage so you had somewhere to park the van with all the stuff you need to carry in, rather than having to unload a toolchest and a hardley-sized bike lift every night.

Dave20046

16-07-09, 05:14 PM

deejay77

16-07-09, 06:36 PM

Chris, have you looked at the Princes Trust, when I set up my transport business up I got some really good, practical advice from them and a £1000 set up grant which really helped me when I first started

http://www.princes-trust.org.uk/need_help/business_start-up.aspx

punyXpress

16-07-09, 09:30 PM

You want one of these to keep the pikeys at bay:

punyXpress

16-07-09, 09:33 PM

You want one of these to keep the pikeys at bay:

Try again!

Bibio

16-07-09, 10:04 PM

go for it Chris. your a good mechanic, young and friendly/approachable chappy, if you don't you will always have the 'what if'

one thing i was told a long time ago.. start a business when your skint and use other peoples money e.g. banks etc.etc.. that way you have nothing to loose, if you fold the business you loose nothing..

if you can make it threw a recession then when good times come it's kerching..

ooohhh one other thing. Advertising, if people dont know about you then how do you expect to get work. word of mouth is fine but advertising is much better. as an example my mate has a joiners business and was doing really well, so he started to advertise locally. within a few months of advertising he has gone from him and an apprentice to 2 other vans with 4 more times served employees with overflowing books with enough work till December this year with more coming in (his phone never stops). his secret,, turn up when you say you will, do the work and keep the customer informed.

yorkie_chris

01-02-12, 11:58 AM

Zombie thread :)

Looks like I'm going to be making a go of this.

Very little success finding graduate work, and I was laid off from a reasonable job I had just before christmas. Luckily in that time I'd managed to save up enough to sort me out with a van and insurance.

Onward and upward :rolleyes:

In the intervening time between first looking at this I've managed to greatly increase my knowledge and ability with machining, fabricating and especially the suspension side of things, so hopefully a few more strings to my bow.

The Guru

01-02-12, 12:03 PM

Excellent! Best of luck. :)

timwilky

01-02-12, 12:08 PM

Go for Chris

I wish you the best of luck

Now change your attitude and start charging Preston cash instead of beer. It is now how you earn your living.

At least he alone should be capable of keeping you in beer.

littleoldman2

01-02-12, 12:18 PM

:Good luck mate, being self employed can be very hard. In my case the holiday pay was bad, the sick pay worse and the boss terrible :).

Red Herring

01-02-12, 12:31 PM

Good luck YC.

Just my 2p worth having (hopefully) read most of this thread, and maybe looking at it from a slightly different angle......ie: what would be my concerns over having someone come and work on my bike remotely.

1. The risk of being stuck somewhere without a bike. I really do like the idea of having the bike serviced whilst I'm at work etc, however what happens if the job turns out to be more than expected. For example, you are asked to come round and change some brake pads which is a dead easy and quick job. However as is the way in life the reason the pads need changing is because the caliper is seized, but being the efficient bloke you are you just happen to have a spare set of seals for an MV 750, unfortunately whilst getting the caliper apart you shear a bolt..... you can see where I'm going with this. You may well need that 3.5T van just to carry enough equipment to cover likely eventualities. If the bike ends up un-ridable, even through no fault of your own, you will need a back-up plan.

2. There are laws, not to mention individual company policies, about carrying out mechanical work to vehicles on the highway, or in the firms car park! I do suspect the majority of likely work will be at the owners home (which will reduce the issues in point one above) but you will need to consider and cater for where you may be expected to work.

3. And finally (well not really, but enough for now) there's the question of trust. We all know you, but would you really pick up the phone to a complete stranger, tell him where you bike is going to be at a particular time, and then when he comes round in his van hand him the keys? At least when you leave it at a dealer there's a fairly good chance the shop will still be there the next day! I know you will eventually get a good reputation, but it won't happen overnight.

Enough negativity, just get on with it while you can. Cheers.

carelesschucca

01-02-12, 12:32 PM

Which at 21

Oh FFS your only 23 ish, god do I feel old...

I dunno if you could make the business work but I do wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Dave20046

01-02-12, 12:40 PM

I need sv work doing,
Suspension und valves

The Idle Biker

01-02-12, 12:48 PM

Good luck! I know a brilliant guy who has made a really good living, doing similar to what you said.

He focuses on Ducati's a) because they usually need a lot of work b) because Ducati owners usually don't have the time or the experience to DIY on them.

He races them too. If you want any guidance you can find him here.

http://www.yell.com/b/Rob+Jones+Mobile+Motorcycle+Mechanic-Motorcycle+Repairs+and+Services-Radstock-BA33JS-3490948/index.html

dizzyblonde

01-02-12, 12:52 PM

I need sv work doing,
Suspension und valves

You can wait in the queue, theres a ZZR thats at the front.....been waiting for YC to reply to PM from weekend, and decide when hes carrying on work we've planned and started, by arrangement.

AndyBrad

01-02-12, 12:56 PM

Good luck chap,

My comments would be.

Be proffesional at all times. Yes its ok to have a laugh with friends but being a smart ****, smug, talking down to people and not giving your customers 110% means they will go elsewhere. Ive had this from folks and i took my money elsewhere. Be smart and look the part! If somone if giving you 10k of bike to fix ensure you treat it with the repect he "thinks you will" clean covers while working just really going the extra mile will mean people will spend and extra tenner with you instead of somewhere else. Its all about faith in who you are dealing with. Things like "V twin specialist" and "ducati trained" etc all add value and confidence.

Dont do it as a hoby. Do it as a job. Be honest with yourself and have seperate acounts etc and cost everything! doing "mates rates" is good for customers but not good for your wallet. Its sounds great working for yourself and im sure it is but i couldnt do it as i dont have the disapline (of spelling skills :) )

AndyBrad

01-02-12, 12:59 PM

You can wait in the queue, theres a ZZR thats at the front.....been waiting for YC to reply to PM from weekend, and decide when hes carrying on work we've planned and started, by arrangement.

this is what im taking about. This is exactally what you dont want customers doing. what you want her to say (and im sure she means ;) ) is.

YC is currently working on our bike that we only entrust to the best mechanics in the world. We are awaiting a part comming in that only he can get for us in the time we need it in. Were so lucky that hes been able to put others on hold as he understands how critical our transport is to us and we thank him lots for working for us.

we wouldnt hesitate to recomend him and would gladly pay him double if only he would accept it.

See what i mean :)

dizzyblonde

01-02-12, 01:07 PM

Yes, a very good point Andy.....we don't trust the ZZR1400 to just anyone.
We have been around several dealers who have fallen short of our detailed questions, with regards to servicing a 30k plus bike of such a 'high end' nature. So far no dealer in this region has given us the right feeling of trust so far...... Peg only trusts Orwells down South, who carefully looked after his bike until his move here.....he had the pick of any courtesy bike when his was in their care, nobody so far has got the work.

Not only that but the cost of a dealer to do a 30k plus service ....needs a very large bank balance :(

Chris did Pegs brakes a few weeks back, and hes absolutely 100% satisfied with Chris's work done.......hes well chuffed now his brakes work on a pin again!

As you say...... a 10k bike needs a bit of respect, I don't think YC left any grubby handprints on it :lol:

timwilky

01-02-12, 01:37 PM

As you say...... a 10k bike needs a bit of respect, I don't think YC left any grubby handprints on it :lol:

So Peg was able to find a good local then;)

Some dealers stamp the service book, others apply a sticker to the bike.

YC normally signs with fingerprints!

That's a point though Chris. Get a good service stamp made up for their service log books.

hardhat_harry

01-02-12, 01:45 PM

Get a Hi-Level account you will save a fortune on parts I will PM you the number.

2 mates have motorcycle shops and what they do is buy up bargain bikes and either do up and sell on or brake and ebay the bits this gets money in for the quiet times

Brettus

01-02-12, 01:53 PM

Ooh, V interested to see this thread, wondered what was going on as I read it and then noticed it was from 09, was a little disappointed thinking it had been inadvertently resurrected. I'd be keen on this service (primarily because I'm selfish and lazy I freely admit), although I'm a little far away but it might be worth scheduling some visits into the area, I'm sure the Border Patrol could get some work bundled up to make it worthwhile. or the option of a mileage based call out charge if the work is emergency stuff perhaps?

my reply is of little actual help but another vote for "I'd use this!"

Balky001

01-02-12, 02:05 PM

Good luck Chris.

I'm sure people from this site who you have done jobs for will recommend your work if people ask for references. Don't be shy

Don't do any favours. I know self employeed that try to balance payments off with other jobs/favours. Better to pay and charge for everything. people will pay if you do a good job and they can trust you, they do not need to ask for favours/discounts. this is your living.

Make sure you get in with the local Ducati and Harley clubs!

You sorting out some flyers?

Red Herring

01-02-12, 02:07 PM

Zombie thread :)

In the intervening time between first looking at this I've managed to greatly increase my knowledge and ability with machining, fabricating and especially the suspension side of things, so hopefully a few more strings to my bow.

That's the other bit I meant to add. Just look at all the threads on here about suspension. It's one of those dark arts that if you are good at will always be in demand, and generally it's dead easy to work on, especially if you know your way around and have a decent collection of all those odd spacers, collars, drifts and gizmos needed to take forks apart.

dizzyblonde

01-02-12, 02:25 PM

now this is probably one of Chris's stubborn pitfalls, much as he loves to declare that his bike is completely mechanically fit for the road, people see face value and would turn and run if they saw the state of it. I certainly wouldn't want him working on my bike, if I didn't already know him.

I do think Tim has a point here, very blunt, but very honest. As I said last night, I seriously think you should knock the idea on the head for a while, and get a job,save up a wedge then think some more.....then buy me some nice biscuits, and some crisps, and some tea bags, and some nice dinners, there wouldn't be an excuse for being a poor student anymore:smt042

Tiz funny how the world turns......... Chris goes away for a while, thinks some more, gets a job, saves up a bit, never listens to a word I ever say, or write.

.............don't buy me any biscuits, crisps or tea bags either, and his bikes still a POS:mrgreen:

Patronising old birds, speak sense young jedi ;)

Berlin

01-02-12, 02:27 PM

Good luck mate, Any advise required, fire away! ;-)

yorkie_chris

01-02-12, 02:27 PM

3. And finally (well not really, but enough for now) there's the question of trust. We all know you, but would you really pick up the phone to a complete stranger, tell him where you bike is going to be at a particular time, and then when he comes round in his van hand him the keys? At least when you leave it at a dealer there's a fairly good chance the shop will still be there the next day! I know you will eventually get a good reputation, but it won't happen overnight.

Enough negativity, just get on with it while you can. Cheers.

Yeah I forsaw this.

I'm not expecting a great deal of work from advertising, I'm just going to get some business cards made up and hand them out to customers. The idea being word of mouth.

Phoning up and having me arrive in a "well aged" chip-fat scented van is not ideal!

Annoyingly I can't get secure parking for the van, so it's a case of yomping all kit in and out of it for each job. Bit of a pain but the only secure parking I could get was prohibitively expensive.

Berlin

01-02-12, 02:31 PM

Somewhere near you there'll be subsidised industrial units. Phone the Council. I recently checked into the ones in Newcastle and Edinburgh and there were some cracking deals (Like 6 months free rent, and subsidised sliding rates for the first 5 years, I'd be very surprised if you can find somewhere for 6 months free rent, free rates for the first year then rent of about £100 a week after that.

And don't see the van as a disadvantage. Showing up in a banger means you don't overcharge. If you showed up in a new Sprinter I'd know you were making a bundle so I'd try and haggle the price. ;)

and you could always paint he van GSXR colours :)

Oh, and let me know if you need a web site? I could knock you one up (in a morning) and it could piggy back on my server until you get your own. I've got a package that covers 500 sites.

C

missyburd

01-02-12, 02:39 PM

There's a lot of hard work in store but it's all falling into place a bit now :)

Tiz funny how the world turns......... Chris goes away for a while, thinks some more, gets a job, saves up a bit, never listens to a word I ever say, or write.

It's not all about acting on the here and now, before it wasn't a viable option without a driving licence in '09, the point is he's getting a shovel on and finding his feet and that's all there is to say. Things are not about you proving a point so can we quit with the "I'm right, you're wrong" same old same old, not needed here. You don't need to type what you repeatedly say in person now does thee :p