buying a used car rant

[kwak zzr]

ive been looking to changing the cage now for sometime and have been looking for a 3 series BMW i know i know:rolleyes: well a friend of mine spotted the ideal car which seemed to be the ideal price so today i went to see it,
when i got to the garage i had a poke around and found it to be a nice clean example of a 318i new shape on a 55 plate with nice 18" alloys and new rubber for 9k the garage owner went and got me a part x value for my cage which came out at 7k okie dokie so its 2k to change fair enuf seems like agood deal altho id like abit more for mine but part x its booking at £7300, later that day i got home and was mulling over the deal and in my mind set i was gonna buy it!

well well well

someone off this site posted a car valuation website so i run a check on both cars (mine and the one i was buying) just to see how big the money gap was.

my cage came out at £7300 px value

the 55 plate beemer came out at £7140!!!!!!!!!!

and its costing me 2k to change? i hate garages and dealers!

rant over :(

[Jdubya]

...someone off this site posted a car valuation website...

What was the site kwak? (sorry to derail, I'm looking at a 2nd hand car at the moment as well and need to check to see if she wants a fair price)

Thats a bit if a ****ter! Did you mention to him about the difference in price then? I'd also be inclined to have a look at other dealers as well TBH. Is selling your cage privately first an option?

[Bluefish]

you can't win, ever, it's the rules. :cool:

[the_lone_wolf]

Make sure you check the indicators, it's a common BMW fault that they don't work...

;)

[Bluefish]

Make sure you check the indicators, it's a common BMW fault that they don't work...

;)


No thats all german cars.

[kwak zzr]

this is the site i used - http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/

i find parkers prices abit optimistic but this one seems more realistic

[kwak zzr]

you can't win, ever, it's the rules. :cool:

i think your right! 9k for the bmw in question aint a bad price for what garages charge but bl@@dy hell it should be more like 8k, even then id still be paying 1k to change when mines worth more anyhow :(

[Graciepants]

this is the site i used - http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/

oooh i like that site - says i can sell/trade/px my bike for more than i paid :D :D


are you not gonna buy the car anymore?

[kwak zzr]

i know you always loose, ive been buying and selling cars for 20 years now and my current one has lost 4k in 18 months :( but ruddy hell! their is a credit crunch on ya know :(

[mike_avfc]

I'm not looking at that site - it'll depress me too much !!! I have a habit of losing thousands each year and still swap them and pay over the odds !!! Just never learn.

[Holdup]

Dont talk about it! im a bit fed up atm with buying another used car :(

[-Ralph-]

Never mind the price, don't buy a 3 series BMW, or any BMW for that matter. A 3 series is the only car I've ever had that needed something looked at under warranty at EVERY service, plus at least one trip to the dealer between each service to sort something that was more than just an annoyance, leaks, broken mechanisms, electrical gremlins, you name it.

Then at 80k miles and 1 week out of warranty the turbo collapsed whilst ticking over at the side of the road, it revved it's nuts off uncontrollably the oil from the intercooler and blew holes in 3 of the pistons.

or any BMW for that matter

I say this because though other models may not be as crap (I don't know), the dealers are awful. When you have a 9 month list of people waiting for a new car because it has a blue propeller on the nose, then you have no incentive to keep the customers you already have, if you loose a customer or two, who cares.

[kwak zzr]

hummm i may just stick with what i have lol

[Spiderman]

only real way to get a good deal for yourself from my experience is to sell privately and buy privately.

Once you involve dealerships and showrroms you got someone else thinking about their profit margin and you'll be the one loosing out....never them.

[Red Herring]

Never mind the price, don't buy a 3 series BMW, or any BMW for that matter. A 3 series is the only car I've ever had that needed something looked at under warranty at EVERY service etc etc...

I must be doing something wrong then, my 330 has 112,000 on it now and apart from regular consumables (oil, filters, pads, tyres etc) it's had one new brake caliper, and never been near a dealer. Guess I'm just lucky.

[dirtydog]

BMWs are rubbish

My BMW is great


Ralph obviously got the friday afternoon special ;)

[Gazza77]

ive been looking to changing the cage now for sometime and have been looking for a 3 series BMW i know i know:rolleyes: well a friend of mine spotted the ideal car which seemed to be the ideal price so today i went to see it,
when i got to the garage i had a poke around and found it to be a nice clean example of a 318i new shape on a 55 plate with nice 18" alloys and new rubber for 9k the garage owner went and got me a part x value for my cage which came out at 7k okie dokie so its 2k to change fair enuf seems like agood deal altho id like abit more for mine but part x its booking at £7300, later that day i got home and was mulling over the deal and in my mind set i was gonna buy it!

well well well

someone off this site posted a car valuation website so i run a check on both cars (mine and the one i was buying) just to see how big the money gap was.

my cage came out at £7300 px value

the 55 plate beemer came out at £7140!!!!!!!!!!

and its costing me 2k to change? i hate garages and dealers!

rant over :(

You'd never expect someone to offer less than book for a px whilst trying to sell you a different car for more than book would you? Overheads to pay, wages, might even want a profit, whats that all about? I image that if the BMW has new rubber on, that is £500 worth of the cost. :rolleyes:

[kwak zzr]

its parx x value is about 7.1k but he has it up for 9k, i do expect the stealer to make a profit but the bit i couldnt get my head around is the fact he offered me 7 for mine and its px value is 7.3k so i'm paying 2k for something thats worth less than i already own?

[speedplay]

Make sure you check the indicators, it's a common BMW fault that they don't work...

;)

No thats all german cars.



I always thought they were an optional extra:rolleyes:

[svdemon]

Why on earth anyone buys cars from dealers baffles me, sell private and buy private. I don't see any point in lining some sleazeball's pocket.

You can buy your own warranty if thats a worry.

[Shellywoozle]

hummm i may just stick with what i have lol
Finally !!!

Your motor is nice and I will never look at car garages on nights again :( makes you rant and rave.

Twas a nice car tho Kwak and alot cheaper than the ones at Arnold Sharks with less dents too.

I would call the garage and say £8k cash, sell yours to ya mate at work and give him paper. Bet he wont say no as I saw that car a couple of weeks ago so it aint budged.

[Gazza77]

its parx x value is about 7.1k but he has it up for 9k, i do expect the stealer to make a profit but the bit i couldnt get my head around is the fact he offered me 7 for mine and its px value is 7.3k so i'm paying 2k for something thats worth less than i already own?

Don't buy it then!

It will always be the case when you are looking at two similarly priced cars that you may end up paying to buy one that is worth less than what you already own. Book value might be a guide anyway, but yours is only worth what someone will pay for it. If you're confident it's worth considerably more, sell it yourself. Don't forget, the dealer in question will have paid around book for the px, then probably prepped it, serviced it, put new tyres on it, paid staff, rent, rates utilities... I'd say £2k is perfectly reasonable as a mark up for that sort of age/mileage car.

[Shellywoozle]

Gazza, they garage went out and put brand new 18" alloys on with new tyres, come on Kwak go haggle with him. The car was lovely.

If I get chance to while I am at work I will go in and see if the guys will budge on price ;) no promises tho if anything like last night I wont know where my elbow and ar$e is.

[Sir Trev]

A lot of dealers make top whack charging company car/fleet drivers for servicing, especially BMW/Audi/Merc/VW as they are so popular in this market segment. They then try it on with personal buyers as they know they make more on the servicing and care less about you as a buyer.

Had a Honda dealer do this to me once - refused to accept the value from several publications insisting that his Glass' Guide was more accurate. Surprise surprise he would not even show me the book, never mind the page or relevant entry! I walked away.

Except for my Astra, every single time I've bought a car from a dealer it's had to go straight back to have a problem fixed...

[Daimo]

One of my best friends has a 330i with 19" AC Snitcher alloys if your interested.
Think hes after £7k-£8k odd.

PM me if your interested.

[blueto]

i own a 55 320se for 12 months now and its th most reliable solid car id ever brought. I paid 10k for mine from snows.

i think you should just go ahead and get one! Mine is great!

[markmoto]

Garages have overheads if they didnt make money they wouldnt be there for you to go look at the cars simples,

All cars go wrong period, modern cars are made with weak components that are almost certainly designed to go wrong for the car makers to make money..

[-Ralph-]

Ralph obviously got the friday afternoon special ;)

Not sure about that one.

When mine blew up I worked for a company with 52 employees. 8 people had various flavours of BMW, all private cars bought at different times, but all within 3-4 years of each other in age (this was in 2006, mine was a 53 plate).

From the 8 cars there were 6 turbo failures in the three years that I worked there, two from the same 330d, all of them on the 2.0 and 3.0 litre diesel engines in 3 series, 5 series, X3 and X5. One of the petrol cars (02 plate 318i) had been completely reliable, the other petrol car and all of the diesels had some other form of warranty issue in addition to the turbo failure.

BMW engines were second only to the Renault 1.9 DCi for this problem, you just need to look at this google search "BMW 320d turbo failure" (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=bmw+320d+turbo+failure&meta=&rlz=1I7GZAZ_en-GB) to see just how common this problem was. BMW knew all about it, it was a clear safety issue, but tends to happen at a mileage where the car would normally be out of warranty, so they chose not to issue recall in the UK, cheaper just to leave customers with a dodgy car and fix those that break within the warranty period. They were forced by governments in other countries to recall, but our government is only a nanny state when it suits them.

At least Renault recognised and admitted that the fault existed and promised to fix any car under 5 years old, but such an admission would be too damaging to the reputation and brand of the blue propeller, which is not the only reason, they are desirable and good looking cars that appear well built on the surface, but the primary reason BMW sell so many cars. The BMW garage tried to pretend they had never heard of the issue or seen the fault before, until I quoted the name of one of my colleagues (the 330d) whose first turbo failure had been before mine and he used the same dealer. The response was that his was a 330d so it was a different fault, which turns out to be ********.

If you want a nice german car with a popular badge, buy an Audi.

[markmoto]

people have alot to do with turbo failures as they dont understand how to drive or look after them, i,e driving them to hard form cold and then just turning them off when you should let them idle for a little while before turning them off to let the turbo slow down before the oil pressure drops when you switch off, also i wouldnt let any car of mine do more than 10,000mls between oil changes manufacturers use extended invervals as a selling point but they dont do engine life any good especialy turbo ones...

[Gazza77]

people have alot to do with turbo failures as they dont understand how to drive or look after them, i,e driving them to hard form cold and then just turning them off when you should let them idle for a little while before turning them off to let the turbo slow down before the oil pressure drops when you switch off, also i wouldnt let any car of mine do more than 10,000mls between oil changes manufacturers use extended invervals as a selling point but they dont do engine life any good especialy turbo ones...

Fair point, but unless the manufacturer states they have to be left to idle (not a BMW owner so can't say either way), then it's not really reasonable to expect all owners to do this. Same with servicing, you or I might not go over 10k without an oil change, but if BMW says it is ok, then there cars ought to be able to cope with it!

[-Ralph-]

people have alot to do with turbo failures as they dont understand how to drive or look after them, i,e driving them to hard form cold and then just turning them off when you should let them idle for a little while before turning them off to let the turbo slow down before the oil pressure drops when you switch off, also i wouldnt let any car of mine do more than 10,000mls between oil changes manufacturers use extended invervals as a selling point but they dont do engine life any good especialy turbo ones...

Fair point, but unless the manufacturer states they have to be left to idle (not a BMW owner so can't say either way), then it's not really reasonable to expect all owners to do this. Same with servicing, you or I might not go over 10k without an oil change, but if BMW says it is ok, then there cars ought to be able to cope with it!

No the manufacturers don't tell you this, maybe they do now, but not at the time. Obviously I know that know, but when speaking to a mechanic after a turbo failure is when 99.9% of turbo diesel drivers learn this....

In the case of the BMW rapid cooling may accelerate the problem, but it is caused by a harmonic resonance in the turbo causing metal fatigue, whilst I was still fighting with BMW over my warranty expired by one week I was pricing the repair myself, a BMW specialist put me in touch with a engine dealer at Heathrow who sells one of these engines per week! He said they all go eventually, whether at 60k miles or 160k, he said the failure is pretty much inevitable and the specialist agreed.

[kwak zzr]

i looked into this turbo faliure, its a known common problem.

[-Ralph-]

i looked into this turbo faliure, its a known common problem.

:smt045

Much more known and common now than it was then, certainly in the 320d and 520d it effected 150bhp models from 2001 onwards when they increased the power from 136 to 150, so come 2006 most cars were just coming up to the kind of mileage where it occurs and UK dealers were starting to see a lot of them. The same engine later went into the X3.

BMW in Germany knew all about it by that time though, even though my dealer denied it was a common fault.

As far as I can make out, the problem was accelerated in S Africa (I could only read articles in English) where the air is thinner at altitude and the fuel octane lower hence a different fuel/air mixture and turbo's were failing at 20-30K miles, and it was widely reported in the motoring press there. I can't remember the dates when they issued the recall in S Africa, but BMW certainly knew their mistake wasn't a one off problem by the time they built my car in 2003. Why did they keep producing cars that they knew the turbo's were going to fail on?

What happens next time they have a common problem? Will they just keep producing them, deny there's an issue, and only issue recalls when they are forced to by governments? It's the whole arrogant philosophy of (best German accent now!) - we are BMW, world leaders, untouchable, and we actually don't care if you peasant 3 series driver goes and buys a A4 or a C-class instead 'cos we've got lots of peasants queueing up to buy them.

Other problems on mine included a design fault on the window seals which meant they squeaked against the glass, they were replaced several times until I gave up and just sprayed silicone on them after each time I washed the car, like having a mouse with verbal diarrhoea sitting on your shoulder. A design fault which meant the rear glass door leaked, causing condensation, a damp boot, and corroding the heated rear windscreen and the hatch release mechanism so they stopped working, meaning the rear view mirror was useless in winter 'cos you couldn't see through the glass, that was fixed twice, but of course if it's a design fault you're replacing parts with more parts that suffer the same problem. Both common faults too which BMW just ignored and carried on producing. Front passenger seat mechanism broke and had to be replaced. There was other stuff too but I can't remember it all now.

[Sir Trev]

Remind me not to buy one... Oh hang on, I can't afford to anyway!