Clueless bike owners

[captainsmelly]

I've been speaking to lots of people selling their bikes recently, its amazing how many get their ride serviced once a year at a garage, and thats all the attention it gets. 'Yes mate its got full service history' they say. But does it use any oil I ask. 'Yeah they change it every year' Chain lube? You'd think it was a dirty word. I recently found out how bad brake calipers can go if you dont touch them, it actually scares me what some people may be riding out there.
Do people on here spned time tinkering? Or is things just left until they fall apart before problems are found?
Rant over.
Either way, I love bike shopping!

[noob-saibot]

i think you've discovered the mythical line in where bike rider and biker lover meet

[Wideboy]

my bikes never go to garages simply because i don't trust them, i do everything myself so i know that its done, i don't have to go down the road worrying about if they did this or they did that.......

if someone has a garage and the room to keep their bike i don't know why they dont DIY, its not hard, everything i know i learnt by doing it myself and when i don't know things i read through haynes or flick through the interwebs, sure you have to pay for tools but buy decent ones and you most likely wont have to pay for them again

[fastdruid]

I'd never take a bike to a garage, I don't know any I'd really trust, my VFR has been serviced by me for the entire 44k, my SV for about 30k and my wifes bike spends way more time being fettled than it ever gets ridden.

Hardly ever clean them mind and they're not pretty but they're mechanically sorted.

Druid

[Stu]

It scares me that I now know what work is not being done to my bike 8-[

[Thingus]

Garage i go to does the work in front of me so all's good. I don't have the first idea about biking (which is pretty evident in most of my posts), but if someone recommends something i'll go with it. Just had my calipers cleaned, pins replaced and seals put in (someone took them out), gettin' new chain and sprockets.

To be fair though it's the same with cars, to some people it's their pride and joy, some people it's just a way of getting to work or havin' a laugh every now and again.

[rictus01]

it took me recently 2 hour 20 minutes to fully explain and get the mechanical novice owner to change her chain and sprockets, and I can say she done as good a job as I could, I' be more than happy for her to do that job on any of my bikes, I've shown litteraly hundreds how to do basic service tasks and not one has failed to do a decent job, proving anyone can do it if they want to learn, I guess it's the difference between a bike "owner" and a biker.

Cheers Mark.

[ranathari]

Also bear in mind some of us don't have a garage or a driveway. When I'm in London I only have a public road (and it's not a cul-de-sac either) for my bike so I'll often just take it to a garage I trust. Nowhere in my flat to store spare bits if I don't finish the job in time, plus the kids around here will nick anything.

[Bluefish]

Also bear in mind some of us don't have a garage or a driveway. When I'm in London I only have a public road (and it's not a cul-de-sac either) for my bike so I'll often just take it to a garage I trust. Nowhere in my flat to store spare bits if I don't finish the job in time, plus the kids around here will nick anything.


+1 allthough just recently changed the oil on my pointy with ophics help/tools cheers mate, first time i have done that on any vehicle i have owned, of course changing the oil is about the easiest job there is, but got to start somewhere, next house i have will have a garage.

[jamesterror]

As a newbie to bikes I'm still picking stuff up as I go along, the bike is due a service which will be done by a garage as I don't know how to do valve clearances.

I try to keep on top of keeping it clean, regards chain, all the **** that collects round the front sprocket. Back pads need changing soon, to play it safe is being done next week or week after.

[captainsmelly]

I was knew to bikes when I got mine, I've always played with cars mind, but I soon realised that an annual garage visit was not enough.. maybe some ex riders saying how unreliable bikes were, they've had loads of chains snapping etc gave me a clue but how the hell can people ride all year without lubing a chain?

[fastdruid]

how the hell can people ride all year without lubing a chain?

:smt039

Oh you mean apart from when owning a scotoiler? :-D

Druid

[Sid Squid]

Clueless bike owners
Sadly there are many, and plenty on here giving mechanical advice.

[Durbs]

Do people on here spned time tinkering? Or is things just left until they fall apart before problems are found?



I just ride cos i love riding, dont give a **** about the flange inverter, warp coil or flux capacitor. I keep the engine pixies happy by occasionally shoving a sandwich into the airbox but beyond that i leave it in the lap of the gods and to old Ted's 6 monthly services. So i'll vote for option B.

[captainsmelly]

:smt039

Oh you mean apart from when owning a scotoiler? :-D

Druid


Haha didn't think of that!

[dawn07]

I only know the 'basics'.......petrol,oil,tyre pressure, and chain lube.
Anything else my garage does tbh.
Hoping to do a basic bike maintenance course this year and do more to my bike myself:riding:

[Shellywoozle]

Whats a chain ??

Only joking, I own a very well behaved Scottoiler which I always check is getting my bits lubed :)

[Durbs]

Whats a chain ??


Its to stop people nicking your bike, don't know why people say you should lube them every week, been doing mine for a year and there's a fair old puddle around the ground anchor now.

[Shellywoozle]

Its to stop people nicking your bike, don't know why people say you should lube them every week, been doing mine for a year and there's a fair old puddle around the ground anchor now.

ROFL ha ha ha !! In that fact I am chainless, lost mine ages ago. Still have the key so does that count ?

[Durbs]

Still have the key so does that count ?

Indeed it does, the lock and chain parts are not actually necessary and just included in the bundle due to a manufacturers conspiracy to make you spend more money.

[Alpinestarhero]

Once, me and my dad were at boxhill, talking to a guy with a GSXR750, my dad was asking him about his hugger. The guy didnt know mujch of anything, he left all maintinence to his local mechanic. After, when the bloke had gone, my dad commented that its kinda odd to try an understand people who own something of such high performance and high technology, that they wish not to understand it and elarn how to maintain it.

I retain very little, if any, receipts for parts that I have on my bike. But I keep my bike well maintained; for example, the oil is changed every 4500 miles, with a new filter. This works out about every 6 months, but if it was every 2 months, the work would be done every 2 months. The chain is cleaned once a week with fresh lube applied, and more lube every time I fill up with fuel.

Stamps in a book dont prove a bike is well looked after. The owners attitude towards maintaining a bike are more indicative. I was very humbled when spannerman told me my engine was really nice, despite is "high" miles. My dad always says my oil looks good and clean, a result of frequent changes with good oil.

There are many things that are not within my capabilities to do. But I know when they need doing (e.g. valve clearances) and I make sure they are done. I am of the school of "there is a niggle, fix it before it gets worse". Rather than letting it get worse and being left stranded.

I've seen some bikes that, from afar, looks nice and shiny. But get close, inspect the chain and discover its rusty, with bad sprockets, then the engine runs and it sounds like a bag of nails. I've seen other bikes that are right crappers to look at, but they have oil in all the right places, grease in the other places, and the engines run exceptionally sweetly.

Most people who own bikes are, thankfully, aware that their machine needs servicing at some point. Some cars I see, I wonder when was the last time they had fresh oil...

[TazDaz]

Did someone call ?!? ;)

Not done my own servicing yet, but been checking the oil level, coolant level etc every 500-1000 miles (monthly) and manually lube the chain at least once a week, dependent on how many miles I've done. Forked out enough dollar for the bike so I wouldn't let it rot!

As soon as the bike is out of warranty I will be doing my own work. My mum's partner can show me what needs done if I need to do anything above a standard service. He tends to have his VTR in pieces every other month, and showed me how to switch my car's engine...pretty good having someone around who knows what their doing as I always find when reading manuals I'm still left a little unsure!

I do laugh to myself when I see a chain which is rusty and DRY...madness...and I've noticed it tends to be mature Aprilla riders!

[JediGoat]

I think there's a certain assumption amongst folks on bike forums that everyone is the same as them.

I do not call myself a biker, just someone who rides a motorbike. I don't go to bike shows (except when I'm working at them), I don't follow MotoGP, I don't go on group rideouts (and I mean *never*, nor can I say it appeals to me much), and I very rarely 'leisure ride' in any way that many on here would count as 'going out for a ride'. My bike is one of my methods of transport, and I have little interest in tinkering/spannering/modding it. I am just totally uninterested in 'fiddling with the bike'. I feel the same about my car, however, I will do all work on my bicycle myself (and quite enjoy doing that).

However, none of what I've written changes the main thing about my bike - I love riding it. I love riding it as much as the next person who goes on a bike forum, but that doesn't mean I am emotionally attached to the bike, nor that I must do any work on it myself. People are different, that is all.

Jo
Disclaimer - I did once change a sparkplug on the bike myself. It only took me 9 weeks to get round to doing it, and in the end I couldn't be bothered to do both, as it started working after changing the one ;)

[Alpinestarhero]

The way i see things are that if you have a motorcycle, car, helicopter, whatever, you should at least be aware of the sorts of things that need regular inspection, and be aware of service intervals. Ok, maybe not do it yourself, but at least be aware. Maria dosn't know how to change the oil in her car, but she does know when it should be done. Many people ignore problems aswell...like that little rattly noise from the engine area, which then in a month becomes a loud ticking noise. It seems just silly to be ignorant when using a machine which, if it has a problem, could end up a) costing you more money than it needed to, b) leaving you stranded or, god forbid, c) killing you

[Speedy]

I'm a car mechanic and I hate it. However, when it comes to 'bikes.....I love it.

At the moment, my bike is under warranty. BUT I will still be changing the oil, probably tomorrow myself.

Then I'll have it serviced next year at the dealers to keep it's warranty up.

I look after a few bikes for my friends, I have to say, they were SHOCKING.

One of them is a lady, she has an '04 R6, (rubbish bike), and being honest it's really not been looked after. Not even tyre pressures correct. Don't even mention the chain.

Two of the others I do are owned by fellow car mechanics. It seems that both are not confident to work on their own machines, as they get me to maintain them. I find this worrying.

Everyone of my bikes, I have worked on myself, one I rebuilt from a box of bits. One I'm restoring at the moment will be a show bike.

I can understand people who have no mechanical knowledge being worried about maintaining their cars or bikes, as lets be honest, if they did something wrong, or just didnt do something the results can either be terminal for their machine, or worse FATAL.

This risk still exists when you take to a dealer or garage....all the time there is a human element involved with working on a vehicle.

MOST technicians are well trained, like myself and take great pride in my work, on a car or bike. But sadly, there are those that just see the ££££ signs.

If you know what you're doing GREAT. If not, find someone that does.

At the end of the day, you're potentially putting your life (and other peoples') in their hands.

A little bit of knowledge is a DANGEROUS thing.

[Alpinestarhero]

Speedy, I think your right. Its important to know ones limitations. I know what the valve clearence check is for, but I would never do it myself. I'll let my dad heavily supervise me, or pay spannerman to do it.

Also, my dad is a car mechanic. He dosn't really like working on cars (specialy french ones, no room to get a spanner in there!!) but he does like working on bikes. Odd that, i guess bikes are easier to work on and in many cases a bit simpler (although valve checks on a VFR800 vtec might be a job and a half...)

[Speedy]

Also, my dad is a car mechanic. He dosn't really like working on cars (specialy french ones, no room to get a spanner in there!!) but he does like working on bikes. Odd that, i guess bikes are easier to work on and in many cases a bit simpler

French cars suck.

Ha ha!! With me, its the fact that I find doing the same thing, well mostly the same brand, everyday becomes very mundane.

Plus I do SO MUCH work for friends after my day job is finished.

I used to be car mad, had all the fast RS stuff, Cosworths, RS turbos..... but I find that although they're nice, fun and quick etc, you can't leave them anywhere and always having to fiddle to keep them good.

Now I drive a nice BMW that I can get in and drive. I keep it nice, I've done a few simple mods to it. But thats it. It's a car. It has a job. It does it well.

Bikes, well I love them. I like working on them because they are so different from my day-job. Plus I find it easy.
I get great satisfaction after working on a bike, because the work done generally reveals an improvement that the owner CAN feel.

Personally, like I said, unless people really know what they are doing, then they need to find a trust-worthy technician/mechanic to do what needs doing for them.

It's the SAFER option.

[yorkie_chris]

I'd never take a bike to a garage, I don't know any I'd really trust, my VFR has been serviced by me for the entire 44k, my SV for about 30k and my wifes bike spends way more time being fettled than it ever gets ridden.

Hardly ever clean them mind and they're not pretty but they're mechanically sorted.

Druid

Same here. There is one I would trust with some stuff, but not all, and I won't pay his prices either lol.

I was knew to bikes when I got mine, I've always played with cars mind, but I soon realised that an annual garage visit was not enough.. maybe some ex riders saying how unreliable bikes were, they've had loads of chains snapping etc gave me a clue but how the hell can people ride all year without lubing a chain?

Because chains are pretty good and nuggets like this do 1000 miles a year only in sun.


Two of the others I do are owned by fellow car mechanics. It seems that both are not confident to work on their own machines, as they get me to maintain them. I find this worrying.

MOST technicians are well trained, like myself and take great pride in my work, on a car or bike. But sadly, there are those that just see the ££££ signs.

Technicians/mechanics/fitters. The best guys around here are the old boys who can actually FIX things rather than just throwing money at problems in new parts.

[fastdruid]

Technicians/mechanics/fitters. The best guys around here are the old boys who can actually FIX things rather than just throwing money at problems in new parts.

Is it just me that sees 'no user servicable parts' as a challenge? ;-)

Druid

[G]

I check everything fairly often because of the abuse I give my bike :(. I worry about things going wrong... you know, with the consequence of the chain snapping/brakes failing being quite serious and all that :D

[yorkie_chris]

Is it just me that sees 'no user servicable parts' as a challenge? ;-)

Druid

Has that phrase ever actually come true?

[Speedy]

Technicians/mechanics/fitters. The best guys around here are the old boys who can actually FIX things rather than just throwing money at problems in new parts.

Er yeah......(Dave bites his tongue!). I've been working on Cars, Bikes, Vans, Karts since I was 5, OK, with my Dad at that age, But rebuilt my first bike, a TS Suzuki, when I was 10! I'm 30 now, so have a fair amount of experience in "fixing" things.

Firstly, thats NOT what I do. With parts that ARE fixable, I fix them.

Unfortunately, as vehicles get newer, most parts are not repairable, but are of a modular construction, whereby when they go wrong, they are replaced.

The difference between a Technician and a "fitter" is that, certainly in my case, a Tech DOES NOT throw parts at a problem, spending peoples' money hoping to cure a problem with luck, they DIAGNOSE the problem accurately, THEN fix the problem.

And while I agree that some of the Old ways are the best ways, unfortunately they sometimes cannot be used with MODERN vehicles.

As for the "old boys" fixing things, yeah maybe on something they're used to, but to stay good at fixing things, you need to keep up with todays technology, which moves on quickly.

Thats why I go on training courses to keep learning, to keep getting better at my profession and to stay ahead of the "old boys"! :smt077

[yorkie_chris]

That wasn't a dig at you, it was a dig at the generic "kwik fit" type.

[Speedy]

No,no. Didn't think it was aimed at me personally. But there are some excellent mechanics/technicians out there and I'm speaking on behalf of those people.;)

Unfortunately though there are some EXTREMELY bad, I wouldn't call them Techs or mechanics, "Fitters" out there, in those "Quick";) repair places. They, given something Technical, would be way out of their depth.

What doesn't encourage good working practice is the way in which the employers pay their staff, ie commission or bonus incentives.

I know this, because I have had to rectify many wrongly diagnosed vehicles that have been to these places or even rescued by certain top-name recovery companies.

Where I work, a main dealer in Westerham, Kent, my employers push us to "up-sell" on every car that comes into the workshop or MOT bay.

I absolutely dissagree with this attitude, so much so, that I have had many a clash with my so-called manager and the directors of the SEAT dealership!

My personal work ethics are simple. Be honest, do whats required, but do it better than anyone else. That way, I rarely get any "comeback" jobs, even though I no longer enjoy repairing cars.

There is a massive push at the moment for "finding" work. This is fundamentally wrong. I cannot and will not work to this idea. However, in all instances, the pressure is upon all in the motortrade, be it bikes or cars.

My advice is, if you need something done that you can't do yourself, speak to the Tech or mechanic that will be or is working on your vehicle......You won't get any BS. (unless they don't know what they're doing!)

No, YC, no probs, wasn't attacking you!!!:D

[PsychoCannon]

Heh I guess it's your comfort zone.
I love working with and fixing stuff and learning how it works.
I will happily rip a several grand PC or bit of technology apart if something goes wrong to see if I can fix it as I'm confident I know enough that in the worst case scenario, I'll put it back as it was, but my bike!! I know I don't know enough that I could make a small issue a major issue :)

I do the basics every weekend, Tyres, Oil, Fluid, Cleaning, Lubing, waxing etc but adjusting the chain (when I'm riding a chain drive anyway..), and adjusting suspension is about as far as I'll go.

I'll happily use the manual to try and check sparks and fuses, maybe even change a bulb but anything goes wrong and I'll quickly get over my head and take it to a service.
Heck I'll even adjust my brake and clutch tension to sit where I want it :) but at the end of the day if I mess up and a wheel falls off or a fuel line leaks or a bit of wiring gets caught round the headstock....I don't want to risk it :).

That said if I had someone local who does their own service I'd love to come by and watch, learn and provide the post service beer :)

[philbut]

I do all the work on my bikes (and for mates) myself, I wouldn't feel happy riding a machine I didn't fully understand. I also agree with what others have said about garages and not knowing what they have actually done. i dropped my ZZR and ZX7 off for their MOTs this morning and a chap on a Ducati 600SS had just turned up to complain about his new fork seals that had already leaked - turns out the young lad working there had used the wrong tool to fit the new ones. I shalln't name and shame here but they are a well respected garage.

Equally when I bought my ZX7 it came with a recipt for a front fork rebuild. being a perfectionist when it comes to mechanics I took them apart to check - the idiot who reassembled them had put the rebound damping rods back completely incorrectly.

SO - it aint just bike OWNERS who are clueless, plenty of mechanics are too! The only way to know if a bike is sounds is to understand it really.

[DanAbnormal]

I do oil/filter changes, sparkplugs, airbox and that's it. Everything else gets done by trusted garage. Mechanics know more than I do and I don't have the time or inclination to learn.

[fastdruid]

Then again I wouldn't even trust every dealer to get a PDI right, the place I bought my SV from managed to put on the wrong registration number and I've heard plenty of tales of other woes from idiots putting bikes together wrong.

Hell I don't even trust the *manufacturer* to get it right, if I was to get another new bike I'd take it home, strip it and put it back right with silly things like grease in the linkage / swingarm / wheel bearings, copperslip on the brake pins and bolts, grease the electrical connectors etc all those things that would cost them an extra 50p per bike but mean the difference between a bike lasting without issues for 10k and 50k.

Druid

[Alpinestarhero]

Druid,after the faff I had with my rear brake, when i get my new bike...the first thing will be to treat it with greases and lubricants. Itrs easier to do at 5 miles than at 25,000 miles!

[fizzwheel]

I do oil/filter changes, sparkplugs, airbox and that's it. Everything else gets done by trusted garage. Mechanics know more than I do and I don't have the time or inclination to learn.

I dont even do that. Tyres pressues, chain tension, general inspection for anything obvious, before each ride or when cleaning.

The rest of it gets done by a little local garage that I found a while ago. Their prices are cheap and the quality of work is high. My time is precious and I would rather pay somebody to do stuff for me.

I could / can do work on the bike if I so feel like it, I changed the fork seals on the SV, and fitted new throttle cables, new choke cable and took the carbs off to get the plunger screws out. I just choose not to.

Does it make me less of a "biker" because I choose not to do this stuff, IMHO does it feck...

[vardypeeps]

I love working on my bike but call it quits when it comes to removing heads and doing valves etc.

Is it just me or do the people who love tinkering just carn't be bothered cleaning there bike after :P

[Bluewolf]

.

[fastdruid]

Druid,after the faff I had with my rear brake, when i get my new bike...the first thing will be to treat it with greases and lubricants. Itrs easier to do at 5 miles than at 25,000 miles!

Exactly! I'm not a big user of the back brake and when I decided to swap the pads (mostly because they'd got a bit grotty and I had got a set of new ones for a pound at the Carnell stock sell off) at about 25k I found the pins were one with the caliper. Ended up needing a new caliper (easier than drilling the pins). Now OK part of that is crap design of caliper (IMO Honda calipers are *far* superier for lots of milage) but a touch of copperslip would have made all the difference.

Druid

[fastdruid]

Is it just me or do the people who love tinkering just carn't be bothered cleaning there bike after :P

I'd rather ride it than clean it.

Druid

[DanAbnormal]

Does it make me less of a "biker" because I choose not to do this stuff, IMHO does it feck...

+1 to that sir.

Being a biker for me is riding my bike.

[Owenski]

It scares me that I now know what work is not being done to my bike 8-[

+1

Having previously had no where to do any work to the bike (plus no clue) I built the garage and first thing was to get to a all round service. Did that and found a world of things which I had been told were carried out but clearly had not been :( depressing and scary.

[PsychoCannon]

:rolleyes:
Does it make me less of a "biker" because I choose not to do this stuff, IMHO does it feck...

But you have the knowledge which is what counts.
I think it's more those that are willfully ignorant of even the basics about their machines that are worrying.

My GF is just starting to bike and she's already asking lots of questions and learning...true this is mainly on account of it being an ancient 125 that is constantly breaking down...but that's beside the point :rolleyes:

[appollo1]

i am in no way mechincally minded and with my car I always thought that if i attempted to do any work on it myself and messed it up then it would cost me a lot more money to get it fixed. mechanics at garages are supposed to be the professionals and if in doubt they are the people to carry out any repairs.

Then I got married and my father in law who worked for the RAC for over 30 years used to have a go at me for wasting money. He has shown me basic maintenance that i can do myself oil, filters, etc. He has also shown me how to change the brake pads but if i am honest i doubt i will as it is such an important feature that if it went wrong could have disastrous consequences.

With my bike i think the same. I know how to change the oil and check the tyre pressures, lube the chain etc.

I wouldn't attempt anything else myself just incase.

Thankfully i have a few friends that live nearby that are far more mechanically trained than me and their hourly rates are far better than a garage. Also they let me look over their shoulder to see what they are doing.

I know i should learn more but there will always be that niggling doubt in the back of my mind.

I look at a Haynes manual and can honestly say that it doesn't make sense to me.

[Sid Squid]

Is it just me that sees 'no user servicable parts' as a challenge? ;-)

Druid
No, it's most emphatically not just you :D.