Reclaim North Wales - protest ride

[dazzerj]

Hi All

I don't know how many of you are aware of the protest ride taking place this weekend (Sunday 13th September) in North Wales? I have only just heard of this and as it is on my back doorstep intend to take part.

If you have never ridden the roads of North Wales, you should try them, for those of you who have and do, the purpose of the ride (being organised by the usual posse BMF, MAG and MCN) is to remind the Welsh Police who's roads they are, (here is a link to a Welsh Newspaper http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.uk...1352-24572974/ (http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.uk/flintshire-news/local-flintshire-news/2009/08/31/thousands-of-bikers-expected-to-take-part-in-a-protest-ride-against-north-wales-police-between-caerwys-and-snowdonia-51352-24572974/) and a Facebook Group http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=%27Reclaiming+North+Wales+for+Bikers%27+&init=quick#/group.php?gid=248667495133 and MCN page http://www.motorcyclenews.com/reclaimwales)

If anybody is interested in coming along, locate the Ponderosa Cafe, Llangollen and be there at 12:30 Sunday. Or, if you're nearby, I'm joining the Manchester Honda Owners Club (very few of whom actually have Hondas!) at the Poplar 2000 service station on the M56/M6 intersection at 10:00am.

I hope to see some of you on the ride. Please spread the word.

Thanks and keep the shiny side up.

[Red Herring]

I think this has been discussed once on here already, the balance of views was nobody seemed to have a problem with Welsh roads or the policing of them....

[Luckypants]

I think this has been discussed once on here already, the balance of views was nobody seemed to have a problem with Welsh roads or the policing of them....

I beg to differ... :D

the discussion was here http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=137681

[Red Herring]

I beg to differ... :D

the discussion was here http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=137681

Thought you might so just had a quick read of it. There were some 16 posts that could be interpreted as expressing a view one way or the other, 12 seemed to suggest no problem in Wales, 2 sort of sat on the fence and two (one of which was yours) said there was a problem there with the police....

Like I said the balance was there wasn't a problem, unless of course all those that have a problem with the Welsh Police were locked up that week and missed the thread.....

[Luckypants]

Thought you might so just had a quick read of it. There were some 16 posts that could be interpreted as expressing a view one way or the other, 12 seemed to suggest no problem in Wales, 2 sort of sat on the fence and two (one of which was yours) said there was a problem there with the police....

Like I said the balance was there wasn't a problem, unless of course all those that have a problem with the Welsh Police were locked up that week and missed the thread.....

Touche! Wouldn't be surprised if they were all locked up though :joker:

[Durbs]

I think this has been discussed once on here already, the balance of views was nobody seemed to have a problem with Welsh roads or the policing of them....

I dont have a problem with Welsh roads but reckon this'll be a good rideout and a bit of a giggle so i'm going.

Its just like a big p1ss up, you dont need a reason to have one.

[Ed]

Please stay away from Bala and Porthmadog, which is where I will be with the 675 mob. I don't want any hassle.

[orose]

The main problem I have with it is that it isn't really a protest ride - that would be more processional, to highlight the numbers who want to ride in the area. This is a bit more antagonistic, and will probably only generate headlines when 25% get points for riding offences

[Viney]

Hi All

I don't know how many of you are aware of the protest ride taking place this weekend (Sunday 13th September) in North Wales? I have only just heard of this and as it is on my back doorstep intend to take part.

If you have never ridden the roads of North Wales, you should try them, for those of you who have and do, the purpose of the ride (being organised by the usual posse BMF, MAG and MCN) is to remind the Welsh Police who's roads they are, (here is a link to a Welsh Newspaper http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.uk...1352-24572974/ (http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.uk/flintshire-news/local-flintshire-news/2009/08/31/thousands-of-bikers-expected-to-take-part-in-a-protest-ride-against-north-wales-police-between-caerwys-and-snowdonia-51352-24572974/) and a Facebook Group http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=%27Reclaiming+North+Wales+for+Bikers%27+&init=quick#/group.php?gid=248667495133 and MCN page http://www.motorcyclenews.com/reclaimwales)

If anybody is interested in coming along, locate the Ponderosa Cafe, Llangollen and be there at 12:30 Sunday. Or, if you're nearby, I'm joining the Manchester Honda Owners Club (very few of whom actually have Hondas!) at the Poplar 2000 service station on the M56/M6 intersection at 10:00am.

I hope to see some of you on the ride. Please spread the word.

Thanks and keep the shiny side up.

Erm, the roads belong to the government, therefore the police being the government division that uphold the law, then theya re right. If you are breaking the law in some way, if that be plates, 'zorts etc, then its the chance you take by having these things. You cant 'Reclaim' something that isnt yours! What a complete load of tosh.

[Red Herring]

I dont have a problem with Welsh roads but reckon this'll be a good rideout and a bit of a giggle so i'm going.

Its just like a big p1ss up, you dont need a reason to have one.

And I don't need a reason to ride around Wales, or to have a social with a bunch of mates, but it does seem that this is exactly what MCN are trying to provide. I just think you need to keep track of the priorities here. At the moment there is a small element of coppers who like to target bikers, either to tick a particular box on their policing plan or because a minority of bikers do deserve it. The public don't really get involved and bikers are generally very popular where ever you go in Wales. Organizing a big protest that will cause disruption, congestion and generally inconvenience to the public has the risk of alienating them, which ought to be considered. If the police react by organizing further road checks these to will involve the general public (it's normally locals that are the first to get zapped in any speed check) and the diversion of police resources could have further potential impact.
Knowing what I do about policing I know this planned activity won't deter the police in any way from their objective, if anything it will provide them with added incentive, and the necessary public support, to raise the profile further.

[STRAMASHER]

Sounds like fun.

"Apathy is a British disease"

[Luckypants]

Erm, the roads belong to the government, therefore the police being the government division that uphold the law, then theya re right. If you are breaking the law in some way, if that be plates, 'zorts etc, then its the chance you take by having these things. You cant 'Reclaim' something that isnt yours! What a complete load of tosh.

Who elects the government? Who pays the taxes to run the government and pay their salaries? Who pays the police? WE DO! Of course the roads belong to the citizens of the UK!

You make a dangerous assumption that every biker that is stopped has committed an offence, when in fact this is blatantly not the case. To quote the local press "The force admits officers stop around 400 riders every summer weekend, including 350 who have committed no crime." It is this indiscriminate stopping of law abiding bikers out for a pleasant ride that the protest is meant to be about. That kind of proportion of innocents being stopped is IMO harassment.

I have to agree that MCN's language is a bit sensationalist though.

[Luckypants]

At the moment there is a small element of coppers who like to target bikers, either to tick a particular box on their policing plan or because a minority of bikers do deserve it.

I think the problem is that it is not a small minority of coppers around here. They have the same attitude as the ex-Chief Constable because that is the message coming down from the top. I'm sure you are aware of the repercussions for not being 'on message' for rank and file officers in N. Wales.

Knowing what I do about policing I know this planned activity won't deter the police in any way from their objective, if anything it will provide them with added incentive, and the necessary public support, to raise the profile further. Exactly the reason I won't be out and about on the bike. :D But is also my point about the way police treat bikes around here - I should not have to modify my behaviour to avoid hassle from the police as an innocent biker - that is what criminals should have to do.

[Red Herring]

I think the problem is that it is not a small minority of coppers around here. They have the same attitude as the ex-Chief Constable because that is the message coming down from the top. I'm sure you are aware of the repercussions for not being 'on message' for rank and file officers in N. Wales.

Exactly the reason I won't be out and about on the bike. :D But is also my point about the way police treat bikes around here - I should not have to modify my behaviour to avoid hassle from the police as an innocent biker - that is what criminals should have to do.

The "small minority of coppers" are those at the top sending the message down. The ones on the street doing the job are doing exactly as you say, they are delivering the "message" as directed. What I am saying is that we need to recognize why that message is being sent and try and change it. If you know someone who rides like a plonker in North Wales ask them to stop, their behavior is spoiling it for the rest of us. Either we police ourselves or North Wales Constabulary will happily do it for us. Generally the police deal with problems, remove the problem and they find something else to do. Naive of me? Oh yes, but I a born optimist!

[maff]

i thought the idea of the protest (if thats what you want to call it) was to ride the roads of north wales "legally" and if you get stopped by the plod for no reason then you make a complaint.

every complaint to the police has to be investigated, each investigation costs money so if 300 riders get stopped for no reason thats 300 complaints and a shedload of money for the police to shell for investigating.. according to the mcn anyway

[Luckypants]

OK then I'll accept that the 'small minority' is the men at the top and the rest are 'just following orders'...

Riding like plonkers does happen and I'm all for those guys getting nicked where appropriate. I suppose that includes speeding :cry:. But you have to admit the figure of 400 bikes stopped and 350 have committed no crime EACH WEEKEND is discriminatory. If bikers were such a bad lot, then surely the numbers of innocents would be much lower? If those figures are repeated every weekend over the summer (say 20 weeks) that is 7000 innocent bikers left feeling aggrieved for being stopped 'for nothing'. This is what is wrong, it is this blunt instrument approach to policing bikes that is alienating bikers to the point where MCN feels there is some mileage in this 'protest'.

[Brettus]

A slight aside in this issue, but does any other force, anywhere in the UK get the same reputation as north wales? and do they use the same tactics, I suspect north wales are alone in their methods, but bikes manage to get along the roads quite happily over the rest of the UK it seems. I don't recall seeing post after post (not here alone, all over the internet of course) complaining about a police force of any other region.

[Red Herring]

OK then I'll accept that the 'small minority' is the men at the top and the rest are 'just following orders'...

Riding like plonkers does happen and I'm all for those guys getting nicked where appropriate. I suppose that includes speeding :cry:. But you have to admit the figure of 400 bikes stopped and 350 have committed no crime EACH WEEKEND is discriminatory. If bikers were such a bad lot, then surely the numbers of innocents would be much lower? If those figures are repeated every weekend over the summer (say 20 weeks) that is 7000 innocent bikers left feeling aggrieved for being stopped 'for nothing'. This is what is wrong, it is this blunt instrument approach to policing bikes that is alienating bikers to the point where MCN feels there is some mileage in this 'protest'.

Steady Luckypants, that's twice in one day I find myself agreeing with you. I hate this blunt instrument approach but the reality is that it's relatively effective and those that advocate it seem to be prepared to accept the cost in terms of credibility and reputation. Some forces have invested in unmarked sports bikes kitted out with all the necessary cameras etc, and these surgical instruments are extremely effective at taking out the real trouble makers, but they are relatively inefficient in terms of numbers, and extremely high risk to operate. The blunt instrument approach can be carried out by any copper or PCSO capable of wearing a high vis and writing out a ticket, is very high profile so the public "see something being done" and generally deters motorcyclists from coming to a particular area....job done then!

[Luckypants]

<snip> ..generally deters motorcyclists from coming to a particular area....job done then!

Unless they live there! :???: But yes, I'm sure motorbike casualty figures will be a lot better this year because less bikes have come here, so as you say, job done. :(

[Ed]

If it costs NWP a fortune to investigate a tide of complaints... then LP's council tax will go up;)

Anyway as stated please keep away from Bala. All you MCN crowd will be a nice distraction, so NWP will hopefully leave us well alone:D

[slark01]

The NWP do stop far too many bikes and not enough cars. They stop bikes for no reason at times. One particular strategy is to block the road and allow cars to go through but immediately stop bikes to do 'safety checks'. I'm all for the police stopping bikers who ride like nobs, but they are not.
There are far more percentage of cars on the road that are dangerous to drive ( and being driven ) than bikes and yet the police do not check like they do with bikes.
This so called protest is a waste of time as it will change nothing and will only cause more grief for us in the long term. Look at your history regarding these kind of protests.
Getting a politician in power who is simpathetic to bikers is far more productive than any protest.

Ste.

[dazzerj]

I think this has been discussed once on here already, the balance of views was nobody seemed to have a problem with Welsh roads or the policing of them....


I didn't get chance to tell the thousands of bikers who attended that they should have known the didn't have a problem!! :notworthy:

Hope you had a nice Sunday, Red Herring, I certainly did... in North Wales.

[Red Herring]

How witty. I wonder how many of the thousands that attended actually had a problem or just fancied a day out on the bike with a load of other bikers united by a common cause. I suspect that if you hype something up out of nothing enough then you will always get a mob, doesn't make their cause any more right does it.

[Ed]

I had a fantastic day in north Wales on Saturday. And maintained my 100% record on not being stopped.

[Ceri JC]

A slight aside in this issue, but does any other force, anywhere in the UK get the same reputation as north wales? and do they use the same tactics, I suspect north wales are alone in their methods, but bikes manage to get along the roads quite happily over the rest of the UK it seems. I don't recall seeing post after post (not here alone, all over the internet of course) complaining about a police force of any other region.

Gwent police are just as bad, although oddly, they don't seem as hated. Possibly because they are less bike-specific than our North-Wallian chums (although they do still target bikes) and cagers are less political as a group. Gwent is the smallest borough of policing in the UK, but has the greatest number of prosecutions for speeding; almost 3 times the national average. Considering how small it is, it's quite clear they are being overzealous. This is both galling and unsurprising, as Gwent has a disproportionate amount of enforcement coupled with the least appropriate speed limits of anywhere in the UK: huge sections of motorway that are 50 for no reason being a prime example. Consequently, everyone ignores it and drives at 80 (as you would expect), but that means lots of 26+ over the posted limit = lots of court appearences.

Not like they don't have enough proper criminals to catch in their neck of the woods (coughNewportcough!).:rolleyes:

[plowsie]

I didn't get chance to tell the thousands of bikers who attended that they should have known the didn't have a problem!! :notworthy:

Scrap the 5+ that were part of it that came off though yeah? ;)

See the other thread by veefer, the whole thing looks like a dissorganised mess!