Is this my fault?

[ak_uk]

A car pulled out in front of me today as I was filtering. I went over the handle bars but managed to escape with only sore limbs and no damage to my gear! The bike is a different matter and I need to know if I'm at all to blame. Unfortunately most of the damage is to the modified bits so aren't covered by the insurance, even though they are all declared.

Traffic was queuing and the driver (red line) was flashed to go by the car to his right. He looked left and as it was clear and pulled out (his words to me). I was filtering slowly (black line) and then he appeared in front of me and I just hit him and ended up in the road! If I'm honest, I wish I was a little more injured and the bike was OK - it landed can side down unfortunately.

[fastdruid]

Still his responsibility to check it's clear and give way.

Druid

[the_lone_wolf]

http://www.motorbikestoday.com/news/Articles/filtering_law.htm

Unless you were filtering past a van or other vehicle that blocked your view he should bear the blame

[petevtwin650]

Certainly to an extent. I'd have been further over to the right to maximize my vision and expect a car to pull out from the junction.

The car driver that pulled out should also have been anticipating a filtering vehicle, and the vehicle that let him out should have tried to ensure it was safe for the car to proceed.

But that's in a perfect world :rolleyes:

Best of luck with your insurance claim and glad you're ok.

[northwind]

The fact that you were in the chevrons is going to count against you I expect...
"130

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.


if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so"

Also
"167

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example


approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road"

If you were in those chevrons as the diagram shows, then you were committing an offence at the time of the accident, which spices things up. It's completely true that he shouldn't have pulled out, but equally you shouldn't have been there to be hit (and I don't think you can reasonably expect other road users to anticipate an illegally filtering bike tbh) But it's possibly going to be pretty complicated- it's not a simple filtering case. Were the police called to the scene? And have you admitted to being in the chevrons? (Can you reasonably claim otherwise- did any witnesses state that you were in the chevrons?) Not really sure what the legal position will be, I think you should possibly be prepared for trouble though.

From a non-legal point of view, no nice way to say it but I think you're basically responsible for this one, the driver screwed up of course but in a more understandable way, but you created the situation. And not only that but it seems like you were either going too fast, or your obs or foreplanning weren't up to the job- since you were filtering past a junction you should have been prepared for someone pulling out, and you should have been able to stop in time.

Not passing judgement or anything, I've done something pretty similiar myself though it worked out better, and no doubt I might do it again! Though I hope not. These things do happen. I hope you get it all sorted out!

[BanditPat]

[QUOTE=northwind;2033359
If you were in those chevrons as the diagram shows, then you were committing an offence at the time of the accident, which spices things up. It's completely true that he shouldn't have pulled out, but equally you shouldn't have been there to be hit (and I don't think you can reasonably expect other road users to anticipate an illegally filtering bike tbh) But it's possibly going to be pretty complicated- it's not a simple filtering case. Were the police called to the scene? And have you admitted to being in the chevrons? (Can you reasonably claim otherwise- did any witnesses state that you were in the chevrons?) Not really sure what the legal position will be, I think you should possibly be prepared for trouble though.

[/QUOTE]

Its only illegal to enter a chervroned piece of carriageway if there is a solid line separating the marked area from the main carriage way if he crossed a dashed white line then he was legal to do so.

[ranathari]

Its only illegal to enter a chervroned piece of carriageway if there is a solid line separating the marked area from the main carriage way if he crossed a dashed white line then he was legal to do so.

It's only legal to enter chevrons with dashed lines when it's necessary and you can see it's safe to do, like the relevant section that Northwind posted (did you even read it?)

It's obvious it's a junction there so you can argue it's not safe to enter the chevrons because you can anticipate traffic pulling out from the minor road into the middle of the road for better visibility before pulling out all the way. Likewise, you can't ever argue that it's necessary to filter.

[Durbs]

Bit of a tough one that looking at the photo. Whilst the driver of course must accept part of the blame for pulling out, i can see from the piccy that it would be very difficult indeed for him to see a bike filtering on the other side of that queue. If i'm honest, I think i'd have hit you too in those circumstances.

Difficult because if someone flashes you out, you kind of want to repay the favour by getting out of their way asap. So really, the guy who flashed him out is part of the cause as he effectively told the guy 'ok to go'.

You'll certainly get some % of the decision though i think as any road user has a duty to observe and hitting someone is a failure of this.

[Durbs]

You can also argue that in being flashed out, he was not using observation but instead responding to instruction of another motorist which is a no-no.

[tigersaw]

If I'm honest, I wish I was a little more injured and the bike was OK - it landed can side down unfortunately.

Thats just silly

[Red Herring]

Its only illegal to enter a chervroned piece of carriageway if there is a solid line separating the marked area from the main carriage way if he crossed a dashed white line then he was legal to do so.

Actually if we want to get really technical the only area of hatchings that's it's a specific offence to enter are those that contain chevrons, not straight lines as in this photo. The Chevron ones are most commonly found on dual carriageways/Motorways where slip roads enter/leave/merge and they are road markings intended to direct the flow of traffic. Hatchings such as that shown in the photo are used as traffic calming measures and it makes no difference if they are bordered with a solid or broken line, entering them is not prohibited under any legislation however their is guidance in the Highway Code (as posted by Northwind) and to go in contravention of this may leave you vulnerable is something goes wrong, as it has in this case.

The onus is on the driver entering the major road to give way, however they will have some powerful mitigation which the insurance companies will most certainly take into account.

[metalangel]

Ouch. Glad you're alright. This is something I'm always really nervous of when going past a queue of traffic even going the otherway - that someone is going to suddenly emerge from the line of cars on the right into my path.

[hovis]

bit of a gray area?

same happened to me, and the other guy admited fault when it happened, i was expecting him to change his mind, but all went smoothly

good luck



edit, just looked at your pic, not sure now, as a car decided to do U turn in front of me, but you were filtering past a junction, which may be classed a bit worse?

[G]

Its one of those things, I would have expected someone to pull out of any gap to be honest.

Fact is most car drivers are 99% oblivious to bikes on the road, if someone flashes them out they presume it is clear.

[fastdruid]

Its one of those things, I would have expected someone to pull out of any gap to be honest.

IMO, this is one where you are *technically* in the right but you should have expected an idiot and been more careful.

You were unlucky, he should have looked and he *was* in the wrong but you could have avoided it by assuming there was going to be an idiot.

Fact is most car drivers are 99% oblivious to bikes on the road, if someone flashes them out they presume it is clear.

Yes *but* the highway code specifically says something like "do not assume it to be clear" and while the highway code is not the be all and end all it is a good indication of where blame is going to be laid. IIRC it also mentions looking out for motorcyclists under these very conditions.

Here we go

170
Take extra care at junctions. You should
watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, powered wheelchairs/mobility scooters and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see. Be aware that they may not have seen or heard you if you are approaching from behind

211
It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.

Also I'd make it clear you were filtering and *not* overtaking, there is IMO a major difference between the two.

Druid

[merlin427]

If I was the car driver I think I'd be feeling pretty confident right now.

[Stingo]

The 'Filtering letter' (sticky at the top of the section) might be of assistance.:smt102