View Full Version : MOT surprise
My bike has just gone through it's first MOT.
Thanks to YC for sorting the rear brake caliper (I didn't have the tools with me to change the pads, and a few bolts were ceased solid due to salt, so they were drilled & epoxy'd etc).
I just thought that it would interest some to know that for the rear brake at MOT, you only need 25% brake efficiency (based on the weight of the bike). I was concerned that I'd fail the MOT as the rear needs bleeding properly, but hadn't had the time to sort it out.
So off I went to the MOT, with fingers crossed. Apparently my rear brake is 52% efficient (with air bubbles present), so I pass. I can hold the rear brake as hard as possible, and ride forwards with ease under engine power. But it passes an MOT. :confused:
Now to bleed the brake properly (oh, and get a new tyre on the back, as it failed for that :( )...
PS. YC, the MOT place was very reasonable. He was going to fail me for a slack chain too (to be fair, it was taking the mick, I just hadn't noticed). I cheekily asked if he had a 24mm socket, so he handed me one & continued the MOT. A few minutes later "nowt wrong with that chain." :)
EDIT: Oh, noise? He never bothered starting the engine. :)
7755matt
17-09-09, 11:50 AM
For the vast majority of bikes one brake system must make 30% and the other must make 25% although it doesn't actually matter which. If a wheel locks in the roller then the 30% is deemed to be met regardless if the percentage.
If a wheel locks in the roller then the 30% is deemed to be met regardless if the percentage.
He didn't use a roller. Just me sat on the bike, with it hooked up to a pulley. The pulley measured the force applied to the front wheel. If the bike doesn't move before the threashold force, heypresto, it passed.
I was stood on the rear as hard as I could possible be, just to ensure it worked to the best of it's ability.
(Oh, and my rear caliper wobbles if you try shake it by hand... maybe that needs sorting... :lol:)
EDIT: Oh, noise? He never bothered starting the engine. :)
do bikes not need a emmision test then? Or a decibel test?
The reason i ask is that everytime my MOT is due on a bike i sell it and buy another one with a years ticket. The reason is fear that it will not go through and as i worry it will cost me to much to rectify
7755matt
17-09-09, 12:07 PM
No emissions test, yet. Whether it will happen is debatable
Noise limit is testers discretion
"noise emitted is clearly unreasonably above the level of a similar vehicle with a STANDARD silencer"
do bikes not need a emmision test then? Or a decibel test?
The reason i ask is that everytime my MOT is due on a bike i sell it and buy another one with a years ticket. The reason is fear that it will not go through and as i worry it will cost me to much to rectify
Shut up Blue. I've seen your bike. Well your old one. It was bloody spotless. I'm sure any bike you own would fly through.
Shut up Blue. I've seen your bike. Well your old one. It was bloody spotless. I'm sure any bike you own would fly through.
Its just a worry that although they look pretty on the ourside some major bearing or somethign will be gone....Am i being a bit paranoid?
Its just a worry that although they look pretty on the ourside some major bearing or somethign will be gone....Am i being a bit paranoid?
Very much so. The only "bearing" that was checked on my MOT was the fact that both wheels turn around. That's it.
Are you sure you're not confusing servicing with MOT? My MOT lasted maybe 20mins, and the vast majority of it, I did myself!!
timwilky
17-09-09, 01:57 PM
I think you have a right dodgy tester.
My tame tester checks wheel bearings, not only does it turn but looks for lateral movement. he checks swinging arm bearing, head bearings etc as well. Safety related he is correctly keen. but cans/reflectors etc. a blind eye/deaf ear is applied.
Problem with MOTs now are they are computer linked to stop them throwing a queue of bikes through. They cannot start one MOT until the previous one has completed etc. with a minimum time allocated for the test itself.
My tame tester checks wheel bearings, not only does it turn but looks for lateral movement.
It's pretty easy to check lateral movement whilst spinning a wheel by hand to be fair. Both wheels were off the floor briefly (not at the same time), and the wheels were spun by hand.
The MOT on a bike to me is simply a barrier to getting tax. I wouldn't trust it whatsoever, regardless of how strict the tester is. There's things I consider dangerous about my bike (like the rear caliper wobbling) and these will be rectified ASAP. But even the rear caliper still does it's job as required, I'm just not happy with it.
Would I use the tester again? Certainly. Would I trust the same place to service the bike? Probably not.
EDIT: Oh, another part of my MOT test... the horn. I've been having issues with it for a while, sometimes it simple refuses to work. But on the whole, when the engine is on, it works. So I went with fingers crossed about that too.
Hit the button. Nothing. Damn. Hit it again, nothing. Damn. Hit it again, honk. "That's good enough for me." :confused:
Alpinestarhero
17-09-09, 02:31 PM
Its just a worry that although they look pretty on the ourside some major bearing or somethign will be gone....Am i being a bit paranoid?
Nope. some people acheive their shiny machine by blasting it with a jet washer...and with it, blasting grease out of pivots etc. Hence, bearing fail imminent.
7755matt
17-09-09, 05:57 PM
Problem with MOTs now are they are computer linked with a minimum time allocated for the test itself.
Yes computerised
No time limit, minimum or maximum. Thats an urban myth generated by the more cynical testers out there
My bike MOT tester is an ex bike racer (not a famous one) His opion is if you can be herd your safer..
I will be going back to this Garage for all my MOT's...
Yes computerised
No time limit, minimum or maximum. Thats an urban myth generated by the more cynical testers out there
there is no time limit but in the reports/quality control reports on a tester there is an average test time which vosa are a bit intrigued about if its stupidily quick.
i myself have registered and completed a few tests in seconds before, you just keep logged on the next test for double time and its sorted.
ranathari
17-09-09, 06:35 PM
Apparently the bike doesn't even have to run to pass an MOT. The clutch switch on mine is a bit dodgy and won't work unless you pull the clutch in a particular way; I neglected to tell the examiner about it, he couldn't start the bike but still passed it. Did get an advisory notice for smelling of petrol, which turned out to be from the new slip-on running a bit rich.
7755matt
17-09-09, 07:14 PM
OMG, i think i might run away from this thread now.
Spanner Man
18-09-09, 06:50 AM
Good morning all.
The MOT standards are pretty pitiful to say the least. Apart from a couple of specifics, such as electrical items, brake performance, & brake pad thickness, the rest of the test is down to the particular testers discretion.
It sounds as though the testing station was one of the few remaining stations still equipped with the old Salter brake testers, which would pass anything!
Even the newer roller type brake testers can & will pass pretty pi55 poor brakes. After all they're equivalent to about 4 mph, so how realistic is that?
It does however sound like you had a pretty lax tester. VOSA are planning to equip testing stations with cameras so they can watch testers undertake MOT's without them knowing. I reckon we'll see a raising of standards when that comes in.
Cheers.
7755matt
18-09-09, 07:16 AM
Really?
News to me.
timwilky
18-09-09, 07:36 AM
At my last test, they guy in front of me had an old bicycle with an engine that rubbed against the back tyre. The horn was a bulb you squeezed, the suspension was your seat, and the brakes rubber blocks that pulled up against the rim.
Problem with the brake test was it would not fit on the rollers because of the 26" bicycle tyres being far larger than the rollers were designed to handle.
So testers discretion, treat it like it was designed. a push bike. Do the brakes stop the bike if you peddle it round the yard, yes. Pass
muffles
18-09-09, 07:56 AM
Just had my MOT test and he only checked lights, brakes (as mentioned above), then got the front/rear in the air and gave them a good wiggle/checked the tyres over to see if bearings and stuff had gone (and to check tyres were ok, obviously). He did also check things like pegs/pedals were secure too.
It doesn't go into anywhere near as much depth as the car MOT, where I'm never sure if it'll get through or not (I suppose having failed first-time 3 years in a row it's probably a given now). The bike MOT you can pretty much check yourself.
timwilky
18-09-09, 08:10 AM
The bike MOT you can pretty much check yourself.
I should hope so. Whenever my bike get cleaned, it gets a far more thorough check than an MOT would. Without of course the brake efficiency test. although brake function is checked, pad depth etc.
muffles
18-09-09, 08:13 AM
I should hope so. Whenever my bike get cleaned, it gets a far more thorough check than an MOT would. Without of course the brake efficiency test. although brake function is checked, pad depth etc.
Yeah but that misses the point I was making when I said that ;)
I was comparing it to a car MOT and I don't think many people can do a comprehensive/comparable car MOT in their garage...
sunshine
18-09-09, 08:53 AM
yes the car mot they walked round my land rover series 2a before i rolled it, with a magnet to see how much metal there was, i asked why does it happed if the body is metal when theres a massive external roll cage fitted? he never answered, any ideas on that one?
bike mot is fun my tester pass an old bike of mine a couple of years a go with no brakes at all and gave me an advisory to fix it, i had already got the pads to fit but never fitted them
7755matt
18-09-09, 09:36 AM
No idea why they used a magnet at the start of the test? Could be used as a guide to repair but even then it won't give a comprehensive result.
The bike MOT should be pretty much as inclusive as the car MOT and you should be able to check both fairly well in your garage. The obvious problem for car owners is access, ie getting underneath.
In fact you can check it all here http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/index.htm
muffles
18-09-09, 11:11 AM
No idea why they used a magnet at the start of the test? Could be used as a guide to repair but even then it won't give a comprehensive result.
The bike MOT should be pretty much as inclusive as the car MOT and you should be able to check both fairly well in your garage. The obvious problem for car owners is access, ie getting underneath.
In fact you can check it all here http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/index.htm
I guess if you look at it as a list, yeah they look pretty similar. The stuff I am referring to is emissions (obviously not easy to check for the home mechanic) and also bushes, which were interesting - I have had them fail and I have checked the condition prior to them going in for test, they are tested with some kind of machine apparently? And you can't tell if they will fail by examining by hand. Annoying eh :(
7755matt
18-09-09, 12:11 PM
If your mot staton is am automated lane (ATL) then they will use hydraulic or pneumatic shaker plates to move the steering and suspenson, which might make it easier to check play. You could look at home with a small bar in each bush.
Yes emissions will be a problem fir the home mechanic, but that could always be checked by your local garage before test is due, I doubt any garage would charge much.
yorkie_chris
18-09-09, 12:15 PM
Brake function test is a bit daft too. If you've got fairly healthy calipers, they'll be right. In fact, well neglected calipers will still pass the test despite being utterly f'd.
MOT is a fairly pointless bit of paper with little bearing on whether a bike is actually safe.
No idea why they used a magnet at the start of the test? Could be used as a guide to repair but even then it won't give a comprehensive result.
What if you've got one with an aluminium alloy body?
muffles
18-09-09, 01:15 PM
If your mot staton is am automated lane (ATL) then they will use hydraulic or pneumatic shaker plates to move the steering and suspenson, which might make it easier to check play. You could look at home with a small bar in each bush.
Yes emissions will be a problem fir the home mechanic, but that could always be checked by your local garage before test is due, I doubt any garage would charge much.
Fair enough, not sure what you mean by the bar in each bush thing? Would like to though :D
Dicky Ticker
18-09-09, 02:24 PM
In brief------If your bike doesn't pass an MOT you are somewhat lacking in the maintenance stakes and even to the stage of riding something that could be classed as downright dangerous.
Your MOT doesn't mean that your bike is roadworthy for a year,just that it satisfied certain criteria while in the test centre.
7755matt
18-09-09, 06:13 PM
What if you've got one with an aluminium alloy body?
Thats what I meant, magnets wont even tell you if the repair is suitable on a steel body. It may have been repaired adequately and then filled and sprayed over.
thefallenangel
18-09-09, 08:24 PM
In brief------If your bike doesn't pass an MOT you are somewhat lacking in the maintenance stakes and even to the stage of riding something that could be classed as downright dangerous.
Your MOT doesn't mean that your bike is roadworthy for a year,just that it satisfied certain criteria while in the test centre.
nope but in theory nothing should go wrong in the next year. However nothing is always as it seems.
7755matt
19-09-09, 06:29 AM
Nothing should go wrong in the next year? Not necesarily
From the rear of a VT20 MOT 'pass'
An MOT Test pass confirms that, WHEN the vehicle was examined in accordance with Section 45 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, it MET the minimum legal requirements for THOSE ITEMS prescribed under the Act. It DOES NOT mean that the vehicle fully meets all legal requirements or that it will continue to be roadworthy for the next year. It is your responsiblility to keep the vehicle maintained so that it would always meet the MOT standards and be free from other defects.
MOT literally tests a number of items, for a small amount of time, say 15 minutes for a motorcycle. Anything the tester does not think will last the next 12 months should be noted on an advisory note.
It does seem as people rely more and more on teh MOT as the only inspection a vehicle gets (more true for car drivers then bikers) then the tester raises the standard to suit, which they shouldnt do.
There are some really bizarre exemptions / allowances in the MOT
Has your bike got a pillion strap / grab rail? Then it doesnt need pillion foot pegs.
I could discuss MOTs and the merits / pitfalls etc for hours, does that make me really sad?
Nothing should go wrong in the next year? Not necesarily
From the rear of a VT20 MOT 'pass'
MOT literally tests a number of items, for a small amount of time, say 15 minutes for a motorcycle. Anything the tester does not think will last the next 12 months should be noted on an advisory note.
It does seem as people rely more and more on teh MOT as the only inspection a vehicle gets (more true for car drivers then bikers) then the tester raises the standard to suit, which they shouldnt do.
There are some really bizarre exemptions / allowances in the MOT
Has your bike got a pillion strap / grab rail? Then it doesnt need pillion foot pegs.
I could discuss MOTs and the merits / pitfalls etc for hours, does that make me really sad?
nope not sad. i think you should start something for all the people who have never put a bike through a MOT and the things to inspect on a bike that the MOT may not cover. I would certainly learn a few things from it. The only inspoection my bike gets is to make sure she has had a coat of autosol before i go any where just to keep the shine;)
7755matt
19-09-09, 09:05 AM
I did post a link to the official test manuals.
Everything needed is in there.
If I have time I might see if I can put a thread together covering the main aspects
i think you should start something for all the people who have never put a bike through a MOT and the things to inspect on a bike that the MOT may not cover.
I have an Excel spreadsheet somewhere that details everything that needs checking to do a thorough MOT on a bike. You put either a Y or an N in a box, the box changes colour. Get all green for a given section, that section turns green (otherwise it's red). Get all sections green, the box at the top ("pass/fail") goes green. :) Simples.
As well as what to test, I've put basic comments next to the more "difficult" things to test - but they're not comprehensive.
I'll try find it & put it online somewhere...
thefallenangel
19-09-09, 10:55 AM
Nothing should go wrong in the next year? Not necesarily
But as i said in theory. Just look at a tyre as long as there's more than 2.0mm of tread 3/4's of the way across the tyre then it's a pass.
I have an Excel spreadsheet somewhere that details everything that needs checking to do a thorough MOT on a bike. You put either a Y or an N in a box, the box changes colour. Get all green for a given section, that section turns green (otherwise it's red). Get all sections green, the box at the top ("pass/fail") goes green. :) Simples.
As well as what to test, I've put basic comments next to the more "difficult" things to test - but they're not comprehensive.
I'll try find it & put it online somewhere...
sounds good...id really apprecioate soemthign like that. :study:
7755matt
19-09-09, 01:04 PM
But as i said in theory. Just look at a tyre as long as there's more than 2.0mm of tread 3/4's of the way across the tyre then it's a pass.
Half that, 1mm is test requirement
Visible tread over a moped tyre
It is quite scary really, if thats all some people rely on
Hmmm my bike need its first MOT at the end of October :-x Need to find myself a stick on reflector and hope I get away with the exhaust lol
7755matt
19-09-09, 06:36 PM
Ok, so to start with here is a PDF of the VT40M inspection check (http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/Motorcycle%20MOT%20Inspection%20Checklist%20%28VT% 2040M%29.pdf) list that is supposed to be used by testers when they do the test.
Gives you an idea of a routine and what sort of things to check for.
Obviously brake efficiency and headlamp aim cant be tested at home (well maybe they can) but if you can stop safely and no-one flashes you for dazzle they should be ok.
yorkie_chris
19-09-09, 06:37 PM
You can check headlight aim at home, it is in back of haynes book :-)
7755matt
19-09-09, 06:45 PM
Aye, but its probably going to be different when tested later on. Even doing the test twice on teh same bike immediately after can show a different result.
Nice that the teser can adjust the aim if its out and still isssue the PRS pass
yorkie_chris
19-09-09, 06:51 PM
Does MOT test even get the rider to sit on the bike? What is point of checking aim with no rider sag on suspension?
7755matt
19-09-09, 07:05 PM
Yeah, the tester's assistant should be sat on teh bike
yorkie_chris
19-09-09, 07:07 PM
Testers assistant at place I go is about 9 stone wet through, if some h*rl*y is in for test then that won't be good. As we know, all h*rl*y riders mullets can weigh up to 276lbs alone!
7755matt
19-09-09, 09:18 PM
Aye, but its better than nothing.
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