View Full Version : Fuel Injection or Carburetor?
Triv650
06-10-09, 05:36 PM
Dunno if this has been asked before (I've searched) but in your mind, which is better and what are the main differences?
philbut
06-10-09, 05:46 PM
Depends if you like pointy or curvy bike ;-)
In general FI is easier to look after as you don't need to clean / rebuild carbs periodically. Having said that, carbs aren't really that bad if you know what you are doing. People always bang on about carb icing being an issue, but I've never had too may problems. you can stick a bit of additive in the tank (or white spirit) if you ride in cold damp conditions. i just keep the carb heaters in good order and have never needed to.
On the flip side, carbs tend to give a smoother throttle response, or did do - modern FI has probably come on a long way sice the 03 bike that I rode. I didn't like the throttle response at all coming from a silky smooth carbed bike. I have 3 bikes, all with carbs and don't really want to go down the FI route yet.
EDIT - so to answer your question, neither is "better" as such. they both have advantages. FI is better for the environment as it can run leaner than a carburetor (carbs as a compromise essentailly), so less unburnt hydrocarbon is chucked out the back.
captainsmelly
06-10-09, 06:16 PM
Carb'd SV's are not ugly, injected ones are.
I've always thought that injection systems have far mare to go wrong, more expensively, than carby jobbies.
And on a massive derail, philbut really can you use white spirit? I dont know why not, but I dont know why either
philbut
06-10-09, 06:22 PM
And on a massive derail, philbut really can you use white spirit? I dont know why not, but I dont know why either
So I believe. I've never tried it mind - never needed to. I think if you look at a bottle of Silkoline FST or similar, the main ingredient is alcohol based. i don't know the quantity you need however, but I guess similar to that of any similar branded additive.
yorkie_chris
06-10-09, 10:16 PM
It's isopropanol. You can use that alone to stop carb icing, way cheaper than pro FST.
I like carbs, you can fix if they go wrong.
lukemillar
07-10-09, 02:31 AM
I like carbs, you can fix if they go wrong.
You can fix FI as well :)
You asked for main differences.
With FI the engine gets exactly the right amount of fuel. so when waming up it idles a bit lower and then adjusts itself. It's all automatic.
With carbs you have to do this by hand by keep on pushing the choke in. Gives you more of a bond with your bike tho. Don't know if you have to turn the fuel tap off every day on an SV but that's another difference.
FI is better for the environment. Emission requirements have led to all new bikes being FI nowadays, only v recently tho.
philbut
07-10-09, 07:59 AM
Don't know if you have to turn the fuel tap off every day on an SV but that's another difference.
SV has a vaccum operated fuel tap, so no. TBH, I never turn my fuel taps off on my bikes unles the tank is coming off.
yorkie_chris
07-10-09, 08:20 AM
You can fix FI as well :)
With much more faffing about. Ever tried to find a broken wire in an FI loom?
FI is better for the environment. Emission requirements have led to all new bikes being FI nowadays, only v recently tho.
Bah. Screw the environment, get some snorting great carbs big enough to loose a child down!
having had both I would go with FI every time - its smoother to ride in my experience and more reponsive in throttle on/off in the high revs e.g similar speed corners that require holding the same gear.
STRAMASHER
07-10-09, 09:37 AM
FI everytime.
Just got a carb'ed bike again after 7 year without and it is a major pain in the azz to start. I have had years of pressing a button and going. Bit of a shock. Fuel taps and chokes. Antiquated.
...and they feel fluffy. Give me FI instant response everyday.
andreis
08-10-09, 12:04 PM
Ok, I haven't seen this posted yet, but FI has another advantage over carbs (correct me if I'm wrong). Fuel injected engines produce more bhp and consume less on a general note. (for example, same sv engine, but different carburation, as the situation goes), as in more efficient in general (not just emissions)
@GavinD: I was under the impression carbs where smoother with on/off moves then (slightly deprecated) FI
having had both carb and fi sv's i prefer the fi feel's better.
Alpinestarhero
08-10-09, 01:14 PM
I dont mind my carb'd bike. FI makes cold starts a little easier, but really, whats so hard about pulling a choke lever?
As for carb icing, that only occurs in the first 10 mins. Once everything is up to temp, an SV wont suffer from it. I get annoyed, however, with the bike cutting out in the first 10 mins, so I use V-power fuel. It works out cheaper than silkolene pro FST (plus, I notice it improves the smoothness of throttle response from zero throttle to just a whiff of throttle)
Also, its easier when something goes wrong to fix 'em...because its all mechanical.
philbut
08-10-09, 01:26 PM
Bit of a shock. Fuel taps and chokes. Antiquated.
Fuel taps are nothing to do with carbs - you could have an FI bike with a tap, or equally (like the SV) a carbed bike with no manual fuel tap. Choke I'll give you though ;-)
@GavinD: I was under the impression carbs where smoother with on/off moves then (slightly deprecated) FI
Thats what I thought - but experience delivered different feedback on same roads and conditions. Gearing was the same, tyres same, just felt snappier on the carby which made it look to my friends a little more ragged (not a bad thing as they were too scared to overtake!!)
yorkie_chris
08-10-09, 02:23 PM
I dont mind my carb'd bike. FI makes cold starts a little easier, but really, whats so hard about pulling a choke lever?
As for carb icing, that only occurs in the first 10 mins. Once everything is up to temp, an SV wont suffer from it. I get annoyed, however, with the bike cutting out in the first 10 mins, so I use V-power fuel. It works out cheaper than silkolene pro FST (plus, I notice it improves the smoothness of throttle response from zero throttle to just a whiff of throttle)
Also, its easier when something goes wrong to fix 'em...because its all mechanical.
I think you do not do the SV justice, mine has never cut out in the cold. That is a symptom of carbs being out of balance...
Alpinestarhero
08-10-09, 02:34 PM
I think you do not do the SV justice, mine has never cut out in the cold. That is a symptom of carbs being out of balance...
...as they very much were :D
to be honest, it was only cutting out on days where there was alot of moisture in the air, misty days
yorkie_chris
08-10-09, 02:35 PM
So, "I didn't maintain my bike, and it went wrong" is hardly a design flaw of the carb is it :-P
Alpinestarhero
08-10-09, 02:55 PM
So, "I didn't maintain my bike, and it went wrong" is hardly a design flaw of the carb is it :-P
as i said, it only happened on days when it was quite misty. Early in the morning it was a problem, but not later on
I'll do a test this winter with "standard" fuel, see how the bike runs on a misty morning with that now the carbs are doing their work properly - be interesting to see if I may still have a problem
Triv650
08-10-09, 03:12 PM
So which would be best for a relatively new biker who isn't too mechanically minded at the moment.
yorkie_chris
08-10-09, 03:15 PM
Think budget.
Make sure you have a good few 100 quid left over at the end in case of tyres, C+S, brakes etc. needing replacing.
Where are you? I'm sure a local .orger would be happy to come and have a gander at any prospective purchase.
fizzwheel
08-10-09, 03:20 PM
So which would be best for a relatively new biker who isn't too mechanically minded at the moment.
Either or IMHO it really makes no practical difference, Carbs are probaly easier for a home mechanic to deal with I would have thought. i.e I happily took the carbs apart on my curvey SV, but fuel injection just puts me off tinkering.
The secret is to buy the best maintained standard bike you can that fits your budget and then look after it properly.
IMHO
Spanner Man
08-10-09, 05:48 PM
Good evening all.
As we've had fuel injected bikes for a little over 10 years now (except BMW's but we wont mention them because they're SHYTE) I have noticed a few running problems associated with corroded connectors on an injected engines variety of sensors. VFR800's in particular.
I would say that in the long term carburetors are more reliable, & in my opinion they give smoother power delivery on the majority of bikes.
Cheers.
Alpinestarhero
08-10-09, 06:50 PM
(except BMW's but we wont mention them because they're SHYTE)
how did that throttle cable job go ;)
Spanner Man
09-10-09, 08:24 AM
how did that throttle cable job go ;)
Hmmmm! Reminding me of that Teutonic pain in the ar5e job is a sure fire way to get the decimal point on your next bill moved a couple of places to the right young man!:D
Cheers.
Alpinestarhero
09-10-09, 08:41 AM
like trying to do my rear suspension wont make you a little tense anyway
:smt082
daaaaaaaaancing queeeeeen
Back on topic...um, i dont mind between FI and carbs at the end of the day. Carbs you have to use a choke sometimes, FI you have to pause for a moment while the fuel rail primes. Carbs I can see how they work, FI you'd probably want one of those fancy snap-on diagnostic boxes that in certain cases tell you everything is hunky dory when its not. Carbs need balancing, throttle bodies need synchronising. Or is it the other way around? You can pretty much always bump start a carby if your battery is completly flat, you will have fun trying to bump start an FI if your battery is completly flat before realising there wasnt even enough juice for the fuel rail to prime, at which point your so annoyed you wish you had those reliable carbs.
Pro's and Con's really
Good evening all.
As we've had fuel injected bikes for a little over 10 years now (except BMW's but we wont mention them because they're SHYTE) I have noticed a few running problems associated with corroded connectors on an injected engines variety of sensors. VFR800's in particular.
I would say that in the long term carburetors are more reliable, & in my opinion they give smoother power delivery on the majority of bikes.
Cheers.
I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say but as the first bikes to have FI might have had that for 10 years like you say, it is only very recent that all bikes have FI (if they have) forced due to emission restrictions, for instance the common Bandit only since 2007, Harleys since 2006 (some models that i know off), they even stopped making some bikes because of the requirements (Kawasaki W650). There are probably many more bikes/models that only v recently have had fi fitted as standard.
And I believe (have looked into it and asked around) that the on-off, prime fuel tap is for carbed bikes only not for fI bikes as they have a pump, but someone more technical might be able to explain it a bit better.
yorkie_chris
09-10-09, 09:20 PM
GSXR750 was injected in 1998, TL1000S in 1997, some big bruisers even way before that back in the 80's.
I believe he means that the fuel injection we see about has had 10 years to go wrong, so people (especially spanner monkeys like Stewart there) know what is likely to go wrong with them.
You are correct in that only carb'd bikes have the fuel tap, for the most part. (There could be some wierd thing out there which has a tap on an injection system.)
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