car oil?

[redSV650s]

Hello all.

I have a question about oil - and I have read the sticky about using motorcycle oil.

I tried to search, but I get:

The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : oil

"Car oil" also doesn't match anything.

My question is this: Can I use regular synthetic car oil in my bike? If not, what is so different about bike oil? The reason why this is confusing to me is that I have some friends who use regular car oil in their bikes. However I don't want to follow what they're doing if it will damage my bike.

Here's a pic of my bike. Just got it 2 days ago.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5756/photohe.jpg

[redSV650s]

one more question - I notice the headlights are dimmer when it's idling at 1,000 rpm vs higher rpm. Is this normal or do I need to get a new battery?

[Scoobs]

General concensus is don't use car oil due to it containing friction inhibitors. It will make your clutch slip. 1,000 rpm is too low for tickover. Should be 1,300 to 1,400 ish.

PS Nice bike and welcome to the site.

[dyzio]

In short, no. You need specific bike oil. I'm sure someone else will explain it.

However I believe the rule is "any oil is better than no oil" if it's an emergency.

And don't worry about the lights.

[redSV650s]

Thanks for the info.. I was taken back by the $15/quart (USD) price on some of the synthetic oil at the motorcycle shop.

It's my first bike, so I'm excited. I'm 31.

This weekend I'm completing a 16 hour motorcycle class which also counts as my driver's licence class.

The bike is used, 17,000 miles. The previous owner seemed to have taken care of it, and it has a number of mods like M4 exhaust, power commander, etc.

The bike however is lowered and I hear that hurts performance. I just don't know enough about it to know how to restore it. The front forks look easy enough to raise. But I don't know about the rear. Also the shocks seem real soft, but I don't know how it reacts on a stock bike.

I'm thinking about bringing it to a local motorcycle dealer to restore the stock suspension setup, but I have a feeling they're going to rape me by overcharging. The rule of thumb is still "never bring a vehicle to a dealer unless it's under warranty", right? And if I'm changing suspension, I hear there are some good mods to do, so going back to stock might end up being wasteful.

[mikelcfc]

tbh i use mobil 1 car oil,, purely as it was in the garage at the time, if i have to buy oil it would be propper bike stuff though

[Red ones]

Wot he said about friction modifiers - car oil is not agood idea. Raise the idle to AT LEAST 1300 rpm and you may find the lights still flicker but it should be sorted by 1500.
The stock suspension is soft anyway!

[TightRS]

Thanks for the info.. I was taken back by the $15/quart (USD) price on some of the synthetic oil at the motorcycle shop.

I've seen on SVrider.com that a lot swear by Shell Rotella T (fully synth) as it's cheap and sort of multi-purpose so has no friction modifiers. Myself I've tried Shell Advance VSX 10w40 semi synthetic @ £23 / 4L and now use an equivalent by Hein Gericke @ £13.


Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found popularity with motorcyclists as well. The properties of heavy duty engine oils tend to map to the same requirements of motorcycle oils, particularly those whose engine and transmission share the same oil. (This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the transmission). The chemical additives found in heavy duty engine oils work well with motorcycles. In addition, the lack of "friction modifiers" in truck oils such as Rotella means they do not interfere with proper wet clutch operations.

Motorcycle specific oils tend to cost between $8 and $10 per quart. Shell Rotella T 15W-40 costs about $19 per gallon (or about $4.75/quart). The price economy of Shell Rotella T allows a motorcycle owner to change oil more frequently, thus matching the "extended change interval" value of motorcycle specific synthetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

[Well Oiled]

The level of friction modifiers in car oils will not be an issue for the SV. It's only an issue for real high power bikes with wet clutches. A decent quality 10W-40 car oil is fine for the SV, especially as the drain interval (like most motorcycles) is very conservative.

The oils with higher levels of friction modifiers are targeted at fuel economy and will be thinner anyway, so not suitable for the SV in the first place.

Cheers Keith

[Spanner Man]

Good morning all.


Years ago the difference between car & bike oil was basically the picture on the bottle!
In recent years as oils have improved, bike specific oils have a variety of additives that are not generally found in car oils. Namely to assist lubrication of the gearbox & clutch.
Likewise car oils can contain additives that can sometimes affect the performance of the clutch.

I always recommend using at least a semi-synthetic bike specific oil. My preference is for Castrol GPS.
Fully synthetic oil is considered by some to be a waste of money. Yet I would use it in the majority of bikes, should the customer be prepared to pay the extra cost.

This subject has caused some 'interesting' debates on this forum :D But suffice to say that over the years the bikes that I have maintained that have covered extremely high mileages on the original engine, have all been run on fully synthetic.

The choice is yours.

Don't worry about your lights. Most bikes exhibit this symptom. It's due to the fact that at idle the battery is draining slightly, as the alternator isn't putting out enough power to cope with the electrical load from the headlights etc.
As the revs rise the alternators output increases up to it's regulated maximum, thus your lights will brighten accordingly.


Cheers.

[boot]

Good morning all.


Years ago the difference between car & bike oil was basically the picture on the bottle!
In recent years as oils have improved, bike specific oils have a variety of additives that are not generally found in car oils. Namely to assist lubrication of the gearbox & clutch.
Likewise car oils can contain additives that can sometimes affect the performance of the clutch.

I always recommend using at least a semi-synthetic bike specific oil. My preference is for Castrol GPS.
Fully synthetic oil is considered by some to be a waste of money. Yet I would use it in the majority of bikes, should the customer be prepared to pay the extra cost.

This subject has caused some 'interesting' debates on this forum :D But suffice to say that over the years the bikes that I have maintained that have covered extremely high mileages on the original engine, have all been run on fully synthetic.

The choice is yours.

Don't worry about your lights. Most bikes exhibit this symptom. It's due to the fact that at idle the battery is draining slightly, as the alternator isn't putting out enough power to cope with the electrical load from the headlights etc.
As the revs rise the alternators output increases up to it's regulated maximum, thus your lights will brighten accordingly.


Cheers.
:thumright: +1 what spannerman said. Couldn't agree more, although I use Fuchs/Silkolene Fully Synthetic.

[Alpinestarhero]

+2 for spannerman.

Car oils mostly only have to worry about lubricating / cleaning / cooling the engine only. Motorcycle oils must provide lubrication to the engine, and the gearbox, and the clutch.

In a nutshell, it may be more pricey but use motorcycle-specific oil. Its a lot less hassle than changing a clutch!

For what its worth, I use semi-synthetic motorcycle oil, but I change my oil quite regularly (every 6 months or every 4500 miles...usually its before 4500 miles). Fully synthetic has the potential to provide greater protection - but stick with a known brand. Cheapy auto-spares own brand stuff may conform to minimum specifications (JASO MA i think is the specification, check on the bottles!), but it probably / definatly won't be as good as castrol / mobile 1/ shell etc etc.

Matt

[yorkie_chris]

So if engine does 100,000, at 3500 miles per fill that's 28 changes, quick google-fu says motul 5100 (semi synth) is £25 for 4 liters, 7100 (fully synth ester base) is £35. So you're not far off a new engine with that price difference :-P
(of course this is assuming you use the whole jug of oil, but who says we're being scientific)

Perhaps something to think about, but if you're not expecting your odometer to exceed your phone number, I don't think longevity is of prime concern.

[Sid Squid]

So if engine does 100,000, at 3500 miles per fill that's 28 changes, quick google-fu says motul 5100 (semi synth) is £25 for 4 liters, 7100 (fully synth ester base) is £35. So you're not far off a new engine with that price difference :-P
(of course this is assuming you use the whole jug of oil, but who says we're being scientific)

Perhaps something to think about, but if you're not expecting your odometer to exceed your phone number, I don't think longevity is of prime concern.
Agreed, synthetic is an extravangance, at least, UNLESS you're considering taking your bike around the clock, (twice probably).

There's no doubt that even if you do decide to use Spry Crispy & Dry, it will undoubtedly give best service if it's changed with appropriate regularity, it is without question that it is a horrible false economy to run oil longer than you should.

Spanner Man: I agree, generally. There is no doubt in my mind that fully synth oil is quality stuff, however - and this is the crux of the matter - it's dear, some bike specific brands are very dear, and whilst it may do a great job I do sometimes wonder if it is an un-necessary extravagance.

Using the example Spanner Man quoted, and some rough figures:

200,000 miles at 3000 mile oil changes - common figure = 70ish oil changes, (bit of rounding off to make the numbers easy). Let's say you were to use a fully synth you would typically spend about £8- 10 more per 4* litres than if you were to use semi synth which could work out at more than £500 extra spent. Hold that thought.

Now I'm well aware that you might say: A-ha! but that motor would have been scrap at, say, 150,000 miles if you weren't using fullly synth oil. Well, possibly, but exactly how many modern bikes get to anything like even the smaller figure, or even 100,000 miles?
Very few, very very few, as the bike will more than likely be scrapped for reasons other than the motor being worn past the point of use well before that time. Anyway, if you were to change the oil when you should using cheap n' cheerful semi synth I'm certain you'll get 100,000 from any sort of modern engine.

Hold on I'm not done yet, but it won't be long now.

Ask yourself: How long am I going to keep this bike?

1 year, 2 perhaps, maybe 5? How many miles am I going to do in that time? Let's be generous and say 50,000 miles, (and yes as far as modern bikes and riders go that's plenty generous), well, you could happily use any cheap oil and get well past 50,000 miles, any extra money you spend on the machine including the extra spent on high quality oil that you may put in it, might give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but will make no practical difference to your bike in the time that you own it, and probably no difference to the next two owners either.

Yes, I do understand perfectly the desire to do the very bestest for your dear darling motorbicycle, but stop emoting and start thinking, that's money that is, your money.

* Clearly this depends in part on the oil capacity of your machine, and futher true I've not fussed over any exactities, however the principle is good and the simple fact is so few of us as to not be worthy of mention run a motorcycle so far through it's life, that the necessities of lubrication will ever be a factor.

PS If you're planning to do 200,000 miles on your bike, buy the fully synth, it may well be dearer than a replacement motor, but it won't be off the road to have it fitted, this is fully synth's only practical redeeming factor, maybe. :lol:

Discuss.

And let us make no mistake about this, engine oil however wonderful it may be primarily provides lubrication to the wearing surfaces of the engine, to slow the rate of wear, (not eliminate it), it won't stop your engine breaking if a component fails.
The really, really important factor is what do you expect the life of the entire bike to be? As said above if you're thinking of getting really-serious-round-the-clock miles from your bike then fully synthetic is, (possibly*), worth the extra money, if you're going to put 20,000 on it and sell it in three years, save your money.
Semi synthetic does more than enough - I'm trying to keep some money in your pocket.

*There's a number of 100,000+ mile bikes I know personally that are still going strong on semi synth all their lives.

[MattCollins]

CI-4 rated diesel oils are suitable for a bike - Shell Rotella is one of the stand outs. If you ever have to put car oil in with a wet clutch avoid any of the so called "energy conserving" oils which are low in ZDDP (which is needed for the gearbox) and high in molybdenum (disulphide?) which is bad for the clutch.

Cheers

[markmoto]

if you had a supermodel girlfriend you wouldnt feed her chips would you? so dont put car oil in your bike...

[yorkie_chris]

But most bike owners only have the supermodel girlfriend for a night anyway...

[redSV650s]

thanks for the info guys. That helps a lot. I will stick to synthetic bike oil. I just ordered 3 gallons of Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

I have some new questions now...


1.

I am new to street bikes, so I'm a noob and need practice. I was going around parking lots and doing a lot of slow turns and noticed the bike temp was 217F.

What temp is it OK to operate in? As soon as I started moving, it dropped to 210F. I think it was in the 180F range earlier when I was going down the road. It looks like the fans start to operate at 200F.


2.

Have you guys tried using fp+lc60 or lc20 (fuel and oil cleaning products)?

Their website looks like a spammer's website: http://lubecontrol.com/fuel.htm but their oils work fantastic in cars. I don't want to put it into my motorcycle before investigating further.


3.

I washed and waxed the bike today and noticed the lower fairing at the rear-most bolt is cracked by the bolt. If it cracks much further the fairing will be lose where it attaches. Any ideas on fixes? I am guessing get some solid plastic and glue it to the fairing where it's damaged and rebolt it. But I wanted to check before I hacked in a fix.


4.

The previous owner lowered the bike by several inches. It looks like I can raise the front by just moving the bike up the front forks. I just don't know how to move the rear and even once I do, I don't know how I'd know what is stock hight for either front or rear. Any idea?


Thanks in advance, great forum here :)

[Alpinestarhero]

With regards to question 2 - are they engine flush things?

You really really dont need to do an engine flush unless you have left engine oil in for about 15,000 miles and its all turned to gunk and blocked up the oil galleys. Providing you keep your oil change intervals regular you should never have a problem. Use good oils by e.g castrol, mobil1 etc, these are more liley to have detergents in and other things which clean and protect the moving parts of the engine.

I dont think you need petrol treatments either. Again, use good quality fuel from e.g. shell or texaco if you can, these are more likely to contain compounds which keep fuel lines etc clean. Silkolene PRO FST is a fuel stabiliser which is useful to add to your fuel if you dont use your bike for long periods of time, it stops formation of gunk which settles out of unleaded fuels.

Finally, the tempurature - as long as the fan cuts in and cuts out, you needn't worry. Keep an eye on your engine coolant and dont just fill up with water - use anti-freeze (you may have to mix it up with water)
as this not only has a lower point at which it freezes, but also has a higher point at which it boils. You can also keep your engine oil topped up towards the top line (remember, you check the oil with the bike UPRIGHT, not on the sidestand!) as engine oil aids engine cooling.

i hope this helps, if its wrong someone will correct me

[Sheps]

Id be warry of Fully-Synth oils. Know a few folk that have ended up with there clutches slipping. Engine flush and refill with Semi-Synth and alls good again

[redSV650s]

With regards to question 2 - are they engine flush things?

No, LC20 is a cleaner that you add to engine oil. It breaks down carbon and gunk.

FP+ / FP60 is an additive that you add to gasoline, and it cleans the fuel injectors.

[yorkie_chris]

I would leave those alone unless you have a specific problem.

[Taipan]

No, LC20 is a cleaner that you add to engine oil. It breaks down carbon and gunk.

FP+ / FP60 is an additive that you add to gasoline, and it cleans the fuel injectors.

Breaks down carbon and gunk into what though - sludge? You dont want that inside your engine![-X

Seriously oils are very good today and if changed reguarly and the bike runs where it achieves full operating tempreture you really dont need additives to clean your engines internals. Just use a decent semi or full synthetic oil that meets the specs your engine requires.:)

Considering teh cost of engien repairs oil is cheap, even expenisve oil! Its the blood of your engine. Use a decent one and change it when you should. Its the best preventitive maintenance there is!

[chakraist]

I would use a semi-synth as a full synth may cause a little bit of clutch slippage, which is upsetting.

With the suspension, the front end won't be lowered (apart from maybe the forks in the yokes a bit which is fine/good) and the SV as it is only has preload setup available, which you should set to your weight. Although, I would say, if it feels wooden going into a turn there may be too much preload on the front, and if it feels wooden on the exit of a turn, again, too much on the rear.

Weight is the best setup guide for preload (the turnable adjuster on the top of the fork).

Raising the rear or front too much dissociatively will affect the geometry of the bike, which can be unsettling for it. It's probably been lowered with replacement, shorter dogbones on the rear suspension- you would need the original ones to restore it, but it's a bit of bother.

[Alpinestarhero]

I would use a semi-synth as a full synth may cause a little bit of clutch slippage, which is upsetting.



Only if the fully synthetic oil in question is not of JASO MA specification, and therefore does not meet the requirments an oil must fullfill to work properly in an engine where it must also lubricate a wet clutch.

[Alpinestarhero]

No, LC20 is a cleaner that you add to engine oil. It breaks down carbon and gunk.

FP+ / FP60 is an additive that you add to gasoline, and it cleans the fuel injectors.

as YC says, dont do it. Providing oil is changed regularly, and you use good quality fuels, you will have no problems