Q for my DAD...

[ThEGr33k]

Right. His bike Triumph 955i) has stopped charging the battery. We tested the rectifier and it wasnt working. We replaced that and its now putting 15V out of it... Problem is there is still no charging goin on!!! :(

So checked fuses, still nothing. Anyone got an idea? Ill have a good look at the wiring diagrams to see if there could be.

Cheers in advance for any help.

[Dicky Ticker]

If you have the current flowing to the battery and it is reaching the battery terminal connection is the earth side properly connected as well.Check that the battery is actually accepting a charge,as it may have a duff plate and be completely knackered.
My battery died COMPLETELY while on holiday this year,nothing wrong with the system,just a dead battery. [955i with a seven year old battery]

[Dave20046]

I'd guess that too, unless you've tried it.
If the reg/rec was getting not working correctly before and now the new one has a good output but it's not charging then the battery seems the only thing left it my mind :neutral:

[ThEGr33k]

Battery is good. Its been fully charged and its what the bike is running off as there is no power coming from the rec for some reason. I know this because we disconnected the the battery and the bike instantly died, which it shouldn't by my reckoning as the rectifier should run it. The rec is putting out power now we have replaced it, but its not reaching the battery. So basically there is some break between the rec and the battery.

Ill check the charge cct (checked out the wiring diagram) by taking out the charge fuse and testing the voltage. Obviously I should be getting between 14 and 15v there on the regulator side and about 12 on the battery side. So if not getting ~14 on the rec side then ill know there is a problem there. Im hoping that its just the fuse, none of them looked to have gone tbh but I guess I might have just missed it. :rolleyes:

Ill keep this updated.

[Richie]

Battery is good. Its been fully charged and its what the bike is running off as there is no power coming from the rec for some reason. I know this because we disconnected the the battery and the bike instantly died, which it shouldn't by my reckoning as the rectifier should run it. The rec is putting out power now we have replaced it, but its not reaching the battery. So basically there is some break between the rec and the battery.


Ill keep this updated.

Not so, this happen'd to my Aprilia when I first got her.
after we jump started it, took the cables off and she died... jumped her again, and same again when one lead was disconnected...
new battery fitted, all singing and dancing and happy me when out for a ride with big grin on face.

also , did you check the voltage at the battery with the bike running... ie 15Volts or at the regulator ?
if at the battery with the engine running then your battery is kaput.


hope you get the problem sorted soonest.
Richie

[ThEGr33k]

Aye. OK we got a spare battery we can check... :)

[lee67]

its a truimph:-({|=

[ThEGr33k]

To be fair its the first issue in 35k miles and its been ridden all year round. I dont consider it bad when my mates VFR750 had the same issue at less than 10k miles and that was a "magic never brake down honda" cough.

[Dave20046]

To be fair its the first issue in 35k miles and its been ridden all year round. I dont consider it bad when my mates VFR750 had the same issue at less than 10k miles and that was a "magic never brake down honda" cough.
Has he sold that yet?! :razz:
Didn't the regrec like physically melt on that one too?

oops was gonna suggest that, thought you woulda tried a spare battery before trying it with no battery, let us know what happens

[ThEGr33k]

Ahhh. Well ive checked. The rec voltage is getting to the fuse. The fuse is fine... I had the fuse out and and the battery voltage dropped to 11.5v. put the fuse back in and it jumped to 12.5v. So the voltage is getting there and making a difference it seems.

Should it be able to run without the battery? Im just wondering if the rectifier needs a negative source? If it does then obviously no battery no work... Sigh.

We don't have a spare battery (thats any good) , well other than the one out of my bike I guess.

Yes he got rid of the bike that melted ha ha

[ThEGr33k]

Not so, this happen'd to my Aprilia when I first got her.
after we jump started it, took the cables off and she died... jumped her again, and same again when one lead was disconnected...
new battery fitted, all singing and dancing and happy me when out for a ride with big grin on face.

also , did you check the voltage at the battery with the bike running... ie 15Volts or at the regulator ?
if at the battery with the engine running then your battery is kaput.


hope you get the problem sorted soonest.
Richie


Ive checked the voltage at the battery with rec connected and not. Voltage at battery without was 11.5v and with 12.5v so there must be a connection... But why so LOW!? The battery is charged and has enough power to start and run the bike so it seems fine. This is doing my tree in tbh! :(

[sunshine]

try it with your battery in, your battery is fine then you will know if its the battery or not?
if you havent tried it yet its worth trying? the battery might not be holding the charge.

[ThEGr33k]

Thanks for the input Sunshine. I think at the moment its running entirely off of the battery. It seems to be doing a decent job considering.

We (me and the old man) think it maybe the relay, well its more my dads idea, I somehow missed that... heh.

Ill let you know. Most of these electrical issues can effect any bike so it could help someone in the future if I give it closure :D

[thefallenangel]

IMO just get a new battery, the thing is so important it's hardly worth messing with everything else for £40.

[Dicky Ticker]

Well, what was the final diagnosis? Was it the battery or something else?

Curious as I have a 955i ST

[ThEGr33k]

No fault found as yet. Still got issues. Sigh. My old man is wondering if it might be the ECU. Im not sure, I guess it could be but it just dont sound right and other than the charge not getting from the rectifier to the battery its all running fine as far as I can tell!

So what you think, ECU could be the issue?

[sunshine]

Does the connection between rectifier and battery go through the ECU?
If the answer is no check to see if theres a break between the rectifier and battery?
Is the charge definitely leaving the rectifier?

[Dicky Ticker]

Surely if you check the current through the loom point to point before and after any fittings you can establish if its a break in a wire or a defective fitting. Getting confused here as I thought you had full current flow to the battery originally but now you say only to the rectifier.

How old is the battery that is currently fitted to the bike?

[ThEGr33k]

3 Year old battery. As far as I can tell its fine, hold the power well, when the bikes not using it all and cranks well.

Right to straighten out all the confusion I seem to have caused...

The battery is in. The voltage on the terminals with everything connected and battery fully charged is ~12.5V which is fine. With engine running it drops by ~0.5/1v. The rectifier is putting out ~15v at the connector (on the rectifier). I can trace both sides to the fuse that connects the rectifier to the battery. I there for guess that all wiring is fine as either one wouldnt get there if it wasnt. For some VERY odd and irritating reason the voltage doesn't appear to get across the fuse. Have changed fuse etc. Its annoying because as far as I can tell it "should" work absolutely fine!

The ECU thing is just my dad clutching at straws, for some odd reason he don't want to go to a shop, I guess I understand that upto a point, but we have a very good in independent shop near, he even knows the owner fairly well but still dont want to go there.

Guess I could short the fuse and see what voltage I get across the short with engine running. Oh and of-course the fuses seem 100% fine, pass resistance tests etc.

[yorkie_chris]

Ok get multimeter, stick one prod in back of live connector of regrec, other one on battery live.
Range on 20VDC.

If this is high, that wire is fault. Try same on earth.


I would get a known good type of regrec and wire direct to battery with high current cable and soldered fittings.

[sunshine]

have you tried changing the fuse holder?
stupid idea but if the holder is damaged the fuse connection might be bad, its only a thought and its cheaper to try instead of asking a dealer to fix it.

[yorkie_chris]

Yes, testing voltage across wire as I describe above will tell you if this is fault :-)

Have you tested the alternator output?

[ThEGr33k]

No not checked alternator, well checked to see if its knackered with resistance, all seemed fine on that front.

Ill have a look at doing as you said Chris. But first we have a car battery, so we are goin to hook that up and see what we get. If the bike charges that then we know its the battery.

At the moment with the current battery we are testing it for knackeredness. Charged it up. Voltage got to a respectable 12.95. In 4 hours its down to 12.7V. Im goin to leave it over night and see where it goes from there.

Ill keep this upto date :)

[ThEGr33k]

Just done a test on the alternator. Getting no resistance. From what we read that means its buggered! Which might explain why with no load it produces power but with load it just does nothing.

What you think?

[yorkie_chris]

No resistance from where to where? Output test?

[ThEGr33k]

Seperate the connector that connects the alternator to reg/rec. Put resistance on volt meter and check resistance between the 3 alternator outputs. Apparently it should read about 10K Ohms resistance. We are getting none. :(

[yorkie_chris]

10k between phases? That sounds very high. SV is in the 10^1 region for same. I think 4 ohm ish.

[yorkie_chris]

No I am wrong. It is 0.2 to 0.7 OHMS

I think you have multimeter set to 20k ohm scale or similar. If actual resistance is similar to SV then it will show 0.

[ThEGr33k]

Ha ha. OK ill look at that again. Think we were getting 0.4 when I put it down to lower settings.

[ThEGr33k]

I would get a known good type of regrec and wire direct to battery with high current cable and soldered fittings.

If you put that in (with a fuse) I guess that is the same as what is already there.

I have done something similar on the Falco to improve the voltage to the battery as the stock crimped connectors were poor. I soldered those as well, the voltage jumped from 13 to 14.4 ish. Great stuff.

Whats the best way to check the actual alternator then?

[yorkie_chris]

10^4 ohm is more like resistance you would expect from spark plug secondary or something.


To check alternator just see what ACV it is putting out under no load.

[ThEGr33k]

OK. checked again and getting 0.7 Ohms between the 3 connectors so thats good.

I also did another check, checked earth to each alternator connector and got basically no resistance. From what I read that means the windings are earthing some how. I guess it might be worth taking a good physical look at the actual alternator.

What you think?

[yorkie_chris]

No resistance there is bad m'kay. Unless triumph wind alternators very wierd. RTFM ;-)

[ThEGr33k]

lol. Cheers for that final tip ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Anyway thought you'd be well used to chasing electrical problems owning a wop bike? :-P

[ThEGr33k]

Ha ha. No indeed not. Other than some crappy connectors which just caused poor charging (and I only discovered this due to using full electric suit and lights through winter in the worst place in England...) Ive not had any issues, and touch wood wont have any more!

[ThEGr33k]

Well we think it is the Alternator. It seems to have been earthing. Took it out and it did have some burn marks so looks like it did go south on us.

I can only guess that when we saw the 15v on the rec/reg output it was because there was no load on it... Anyway will find out soon enough when the replacement comes.

[yorkie_chris]

15V is not a happy reg rec even with no load.

I suggest you check carefully for problems when the replacement alternator is fitted. Or even change both to be sure. It is possible one component could fry the other, I would check with spanner man or sid squid as to the possibility of this.

[ThEGr33k]

The Reg/rec is already new... Thing I figure is 15v at reg/rec is fine, once its got to the battery it'll have already lost at least .5V and 14.5V at the battery is the top end of expected charge voltage.

Ill check all that though.

[yorkie_chris]

It is supposed to regulate voltage though based on that output. Maybe it needs some current to do this properly...

[ThEGr33k]

Right, Old man put it all together tonight with new alternator (and the new Reg/rec which he already got as we suspected that first...) and its all great. 14.2V at idle and about the same at 4k rpm. Brilliant all sorted Woot woot. So basically the Alternator went and burnt out the reg/rec, or maybe the other way around (I doubt it).

Moral of the story is... Electrics are a royal pain in the ar$e, and nothing appears to be what it is.

I.E. if a reg/rec puts out a voltage when disconnected from system but doesn't when connected to charge the battery (i.e. the voltage seems to disappear with no explanation (broken wires) its the Alternator earthing and cant take any load... Sigh.

I learnt a lot which is a great thing! Hope this helps someone else (looks like TLW might need it).

Cheers!

[Dicky Ticker]

Sorted-----matter of elimination but you got there in the end
Electrics I hate,give me something mechanical I can see

[ThEGr33k]

Sorted-----matter of elimination but you got there in the end
Electrics I hate,give me something mechanical I can see


Aye, the main problem we had with the elimination is the fact that under no load we got a good voltage. ha ha. But as you say got there so happy :D