So then, this Griffin muppet...

[Viney]

...is going to be on Question Time tonight.

Tune in or turn off?

[the white rabbit]

I'm quite interested as I have never heard him speak and he is meant to be a clever bloke, and there lies the problem (if indeed you percieve it to be as obviously many don't) as he is more this

http://www.britishblogs.co.uk/images/207684.jpg

Than this

http://russia.foreignpolicyblogs.com/files/2009/02/russian-skinheads.jpg

I wonder what is inside? I think he might be too smart to ever let us know, like all the politicians.

[keithd]

i am out but will record it and watch it at weekend.

im hoping he'll be torn to shreads, but for me the worry is such a vehicle for him may result in him getting more followers and more voters.

but, its a democracy we live in, so he's entitled to air his views however abhorrent they appear to be...

[the_lone_wolf]

As keith said, no time for his views but we can't dictate who has the right of freedom of speech and who doesn't

Will be interesting to see how it turns out





Oh, and while I'm here...










http://blog.preshweb.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bnpkaraoke.png

[wyrdness]

Griffin used to be a complete nazi, who wrote anti-jewish pamphlets and was a leader of the National Front. He's now trying to convince us that he's changed, but I don't buy it. He's clever enough to realise that toning down the extreme far right policies and wearing suits is going to help appeal to voters, but the ultimate aim of the BNP leadership is still to kick all non-white people out of the country.

[Quiff Wichard]

me always watch it anyway- but will view with more interest tonight-- dont agree with everything he stands for but then I will defend the right for him to have his views in this democracy we live in

or shall we all go live in China?

[neio79]

will watch it for sh*ts and giggles really.

IMO i agree with some of the BNP's policies. I said SOme people not all.

[Alpinestarhero]

If its bear baiting the BBC want, will the show be co-hosted by jeremy kyle?

I can't think of a person who could deserve it more that is currently alive.

I might tune in for 5 minutes, boo at the TV, laugh at the booing, then I'll stop before I get too angry at a guy who is, at heart, incredibly racist and facist.

[SoulKiss]

The BNP is a recognised Political Party with elected members in all levels of government.

Therefore it is only right and proper that he is on Question Time.

I'm just hoping that the mask slips...

[timwilky]

I respect his rights to be there, to enter into open debate. It is only by listening to what he says, challenging his argument that people will know his policies for what they really are.

My honest opinion, anti nazi protests etc. Do themselves no favours. Violently disrupting and shouting down legal protests, banning legitimate visits by European politicians etc play into the hands of the far right. Who are the dictators then? The ones who want to debate a subject? Or those who use violence and political oppression just because they don't like someone's views.

Maybe if something was done to help the poor white underclass, their perceived views could be changed. The nazis rose from post WW1 poverty/unemployment. It could so easily happen here

[Scoobs]

I might tune in for 5 minutes, boo at the TV, laugh at the booing, then I'll stop before I get too angry at a guy who is, at heart, incredibly racist and facist.

I can see the same thing happening in my house.

[Alpinestarhero]

I can see the same thing happening in my house.

we could spend those 5 minutes together if you like

[Scoobs]

we could spend those 5 minutes together if you like

I'll be thinking of you for those 5 minutes :love:

[amnesia]

I predict that the viewing figures will be higher tonight than for any Question Time show previously.

I think that a very narrow set of this party's views / proposals will be focused on, and I would not be surprised to see the discusion become mired in their legal problems with their membership requirements or devolve into shouts of 'racist!' from the audience.

[plowsie]

****'s and giggles I will be watching it for.

[Warthog]

My honest opinion, anti nazi protests etc. Do themselves no favours. Violently disrupting and shouting down legal protests, banning legitimate visits by European politicians etc play into the hands of the far right. Who are the dictators then? The ones who want to debate a subject? Or those who use violence and political oppression just because they don't like someone's views.


Couldn't agree more Tim, I can't believe the hypocrisy of these demonstrators trying to stop a legally elected person from peacefully expressing themselves or travelling to this county, just because they disagree with their views. Do they not realise that democracy and freedom of speech work both ways, not just to let them say what they want?

Now I am extremely anti-BNP, but I believe they have a right to join in on political debates now that they have been elected, I just hope that people will realise how stupid and racist their policies are and therefore put off more people from voting for them.

Does anyone here really think that if the BNP get to put their message accross to everyone in the UK that they will win the general election and we will become the next Nazis?! I can't see that happening I'm afraid.

[Alpinestarhero]

I'll be thinking of you for those 5 minutes :love:

me too, it will be special and beautiful

:kiss:

[Jabba]

He has a legitimate right to be there and the BBC was right to say "no" to Peter Hain's request to ban him. If the Govt want him banned, like the govt of the day did to Gerry Adams et al, then they should legislate accordingly rather than put pressure on the nation's state-funded public sector broadcaster.

Mainstream politicians tell us that the British electorate is sophisticated and will see through phoney politicians and policies. I'm sure that this will be the case here.

Let's hear what he has to say and judge for ourselves.

[the_lone_wolf]

Mainstream politicians tell us that the British electorate is sophisticated and will see through phoney politicians and policies. I'm sure that this will be the case here.

The British electorate voted our current Gov in...


TWICE!!!:o


:D;)

[Jabba]

The British electorate voted our current Gov in...


TWICE!!!:o

Some are more sophisticated than others ;-)

[Captain Nemo]

The BNP is a recognised Political Party with elected members in all levels of government.

Therefore it is only right and proper that he is on Question Time.

I'm just hoping that the mask slips...


Did i miss something here?, when did the BNP get elected into government?.

the only elected members in any level of government are Labour MP's

i voted BNP last election and eill continue to do so until the mainstream parties start to listen to ordinary people and stop being self serving.

that doesnt mean i want the bnp running the country mind...............

[SoulKiss]

Did i miss something here?, when did the BNP get elected into government?.

the only elected members in any level of government are Labour MP's

i voted BNP last election and eill continue to do so until the mainstream parties start to listen to ordinary people and stop being self serving.

that doesnt mean i want the bnp running the country mind...............

Ok so not all levels, but they have Council Representation, and a Euro MP.

Just because they are not in the current Government, that does not mean they are not part of the Governance Process.

As for Voting for them, are you MAD!!!

All it takes is more people with their stupid "protest votes" and they get more power - how can you say "I voted for them" but then say "I hope it doesn't actually count for anything and they dont get in"

[the_lone_wolf]

...how can you say "I voted for them" but then say "I hope it doesn't actually count for anything and they dont get in"

Perhaps he thought you put the "X" next to the one you want to delete?;)

[Captain Nemo]

Perhaps he thought you put the "X" next to the one you want to delete?;)


thanks for that, i vote for who the f**k i want and for whatever reasons i want , thats my democratic right.

i wouldnt want the BNP in power because theyd make things worse than they are now they arent ready to run anything, that doesnt mean i agree with all there policies either, but things have got to change in this country and the usual muppets arent going to do it.

if people dont like that,
tough ****

[Von Teese]

I can see the same thing happening in my house.

we could spend those 5 minutes together if you like

I'll be thinking of you for those 5 minutes :love:

me too, it will be special and beautiful

:kiss:
Actually considering the above I would rather watch Alpinestarhero and Scoobs, probably will be a lot more exciting ;)

As for the actual programme, nope I wont be watching, I will be doing something far more interesting!

[the_lone_wolf]

thanks for that, i vote for who the f**k i want and for whatever reasons i want , thats my democratic right.

You mean the democratic right the BNP say they will only grant you if they deem you suitable?

You did read their manifesto before you went out and voted for them didn't you?;)

[SoulKiss]

i wouldnt want the BNP in power because theyd make things worse than they are now they arent ready to run anything, that doesnt mean i agree with all there policies either, but things have got to change in this country and the usual muppets arent going to do it.

if people dont like that,
tough ****

Speaking of muppets,

I wonder how many of the muppets that voted BNP at the local council elections were just protest voting and then got what they deserved with this shower...

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/BNP-councillors.php

[malks]

i cant believe that people are argueing that they should not be allowed on tv to a political debate show. they have been voted into power by the democratic system in place in this country, they have a right to be heard.

on the flip side, any politician who does not think they can argue against them should not be representing any party. i mean one of their main policies to stop and reverse the 'non-white' immigration in this country. now they say they are not a racist party, but surely defining who should be allowed to stay in this country by the colour of their skin is racist??!?!

my biggest problem is the tv show will end up in people just shouting and swearing at them, because labour/tory/lib dems/the audience wont be smart enough to have a decent debate with them and rip them to shreds.

[Ed]

Somebody voted for them (most definitely not me) as they have 2 Euro seats and several local council seats. So yes they should have a voice. As for this ridiculous legal threat, it completely misses the point that the BNP does have support. I personally detest them and all they stand for, but then they would say that about the Tory party, which I vote for.

I think Peter Hain would spend his time more productively in addressing the reasons why the BNP enjoy support in the first place.

I won't be watching though. Just because I think they should have the right to be heard doesn't mean to say that I will listen.

[Kinvig]

I wonder how many of the muppets that voted BNP at the local council elections were just protest voting and then got what they deserved with this shower...


Claire Doncaster. Three months after being elected she was evicted from her council house for failing to pay £2,000 of rent arrears. She has failed to turn up to a single meeting of the tenants and residents group in her ward since being elected in May 2006. “That young lady is doing a disservice to our community,” said chair Darren Rodwell. “She was elected by residents of this ward to work within this ward. After six months she should have at least had the grace to come and meet the people she represents.”


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[blue curvy jester]

Funny thing is Griffin doesn't even live in his 'own' country he is in effect an economic migrant

Dress a thug in a suit he's still a thug at heart

[Jayneflakes]

I have a quote from Henry Rollins who spoke at length about the rights of the Nazi Far Right to speak. He said

Know your enemy, know what they say so you can counter argue the Sh*t they spoutI think he has a point, fighting for the voice to be removed from a Politically dangerous group like the BNP is shooting yourself in the foot and as such I do not belong to any anti fascist group. I do belong to a couple of politically active groups though that campaign for human rights, Gay Pride and Amnesty International. None of these groups would consider gagging a political party, because you have to allow freedom of speech to all people, even if you disagree with their policies, or you are showing a dangerous hypocrisy.

There is another aspect to this debate though. The BNP are not the only Political party who advocate hatred against minorities. There are several parties out there who want to ban or repeal laws that protect the rights of sexual and gender minorities in this country. I watched the debate on the Gender Recognition Act in 2003 (I think it was) and saw religious leaders such as Ian Paisley pouring forth with the anti gay and anti trans hate. At the last local election there was a party here that are anti Gay marriage and want to repeal the Civil partnership right we all have.

So keep watching folks and be observant of what is happening out there, the BNP is not the only fascist group campaigning for your vote, they are the most obvious. :shock:

[Milky Bar Kid]

I won't be watching question time....because it's boring....but I will agree that the BNP are toning down their clearly racist policies as they see Joe Public becoming increasingly disillusioned with the current Govt and the other 3 main parties.

If the other parties, Tory,Labour, Lib Dem, don't do something to change the views or, in particular, working (although probably not working and on the dole) males, then we may find ourselves in a situation where the BNP manage to get more and more seats within the Govt.

EDIT: Before someone shoots me down in flames...I was not stereotyping, I said "in particular". I do realise it is not only working (or not )class males who will vote for BNP.

[Quedos]

i won't watch but i'm interested in the outcome. I believe that he has the right to speak that same as another party and i hope that the audience and other panel members treat him with the same respect as everyone else. Therefore we can have a nice open debate where we can see the little s** squirm and really show his true colours.

[Sir Trev]

Maybe if something was done to help the poor white underclass, their perceived views could be changed. The nazis rose from post WW1 poverty/unemployment. It could so easily happen here

Not just the poor. Those of us in "Middle England", with professional salaries, paying lots of tax, never taking but always giving, are also getting fed up with being bled dry so that the have-nots can (if they wish) sit around on benefits for life. We pay ever increasing council tax for diminishing services and if, like me, you're in a Tory area most of your council tax goes to pay for services in a Labour area!!! We keep this country going but are being taken for granted, by all political parties.

I would not consider voting for them myself but a lot of utterly fed up white collar workers are seriously considering the BNP as a way out of this.

[Grant66]

The BNP have gained a voice in mainstream politics mainly due to the lack of action by the two parties which govern this country.

There is a debate to be had about immigration, the growing ethnic minorities within some towns (Burnley I think, is where the BNP got their first council seat, that’s more like an ethnic majority now), the perceived discrimination against whites (e.g. race laws only seem to work in one direction) and compulsory teaching of our children of immigrants culture whilst banning nativity plays (my kids would know more about Dewali than the crucifixion if I’d left it to the school).

The main two parties are too scared to address any of these issues for fear of some PC w****r shouting racist, but until they do the BNP message will flourish.

An example:
My ex Mrs started working for the Enterprise commission in Peterborough promoting the ‘New Deal’, there was a compulsory ethnic awareness course. During this course the employees were educated how not to insult and upset people from other cultures.
Towards the end in the Q&A section she asked if the immigrants to the area received a similar introduction to British culture and how not to insult & upset the locals. She was told “that would be racist”.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Here's a question guys, no right or wrong answer, I don't even know what my answer is.

Griffin and some of his cronies have been convicted of inciting racial hatred. This appears to be the basis of the other parties argument against him being on the TV tonight.

That Islamic Cleric guy...the one with the hook? Can't remember his name. He has IIRC been done with the same thing. So, he starts a political party, gets a couple of local council seats. would you then be happy for him to be on the television to preach his views to the nation?

Given the freedom of speech, providing that they don't "incite racial hatred" they can pretty much say what they like!

The other problem I see with Griffin being on television is that he is DEMANDING Police protection at the studio as there is such a row and because some of the audience members are Holocaust survivors, victims of racial hate crimes, etc etc. How much is that costing us as the taxpayer? Just so he can spout a lot of rubbish?

[blue curvy jester]

That Islamic Cleric guy...the one with the hook? Can't remember his name. He has IIRC been done with the same thing. So, he starts a political party, gets a couple of local council seats. would you then be happy for him to be on the television to preach his views to the nation?

Given the freedom of speech, providing that they don't "incite racial hatred" they can pretty much say what they like!

Abu Hamza i i think who you mean

If he is a legal citizen of this country and does nothing or says that is hateful he would be entitled to the same as nick griffin

It's the pitfall of living in a country with free speech and a democratic system

the alternate is No platform or censorship which has been tried and does not work as it allows the bigots to spout populist polocies to their own peoples and those on the margins and not be questioned on their real values





The other problem I see with Griffin being on television is that he is DEMANDING Police protection at the studio as there is such a row and because some of the audience members are Holocaust survivors, victims of racial hate crimes, etc etc. How much is that costing us as the taxpayer? Just so he can spout a lot of rubbish?

Fuk him if he sees nothing wrong in what he's saying why does he need protection

[Warthog]

Abu Hamza was actively inciting terrorism, inciting people to rise up and kill infidels. Nick Griffin just wants to evict non-white people. So long as what you are saying isn't a crime, then you can say it.

[Ch00]

How much is that costing us as the taxpayer?

About £100,000 and 300 police officers so one London paper claims

[the_lone_wolf]

About £100,000 and 300 police officers so one London paper claims

So in reality it'll be more like £1k and 3 PSCOs...;)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Abu Hamza was actively inciting terrorism, inciting people to rise up and kill infidels. Nick Griffin just wants to evict non-white people. So long as what you are saying isn't a crime, then you can say it.


yeah I stated that, but my point is, and I'm not sure if Nick Griffins has personally been convicted of, but certainly members of his party have, inciting racial hatred. Was just wondering what peoples views were on Abu hamza or whatever his name is ddoing the same?

just some cats and pigeons...

[Specialone]

My 2 penneth,

Lets lay down some facts.

Talking or being concerned about immigration, aslyum or economic in this country is not racist.

Immigration has spriralled out of control in this country since 1997.

Immigration does unnaturally increase the population, therefore putting a strain on our services, fire, police, nhs, schooling, housing, transport network.

This country does not have the infastructure to support the population levels we have now, let alone in 5 years time.
We have absolutely no control on immigration whatsoever, i watched a police program a while back and immigrants were picked up on the side of a road after smuggling across the channel in the back of a lorry, what did they do, let them go and told them to make their way themselves to the immigration centre, guess what? they didnt turn up.

Asylum, why if people are being persecuted in their own countries dont they take the nearest country that come to, i'll tell you why because the benefit system here for asylum seekers is the most welcoming.

The people that deny migrant workers take uk jobs are dilusional, its simple maths, less people more opportunities.

My wife works in the NHS and a few years ago it was spending more on foreign recruitment in the phillipines etc than it would cost to train home grown nurses to do the same jobs.
They were also given accommodation FOC.

I feel sometimes like an alien in this country, our concerns are not being addressed yet ethnic cultures are being catered for on all levels.

This is my opinion, its not practical to get rid of all non whites as BNP wanna do, there are a lot of black and asian people who are decent hard working people whom i have no problem with but the BNP do.
My probelm is with expanding population, free loaders (whites included), Pc brigade etc.
If you wanna come into this country, learn the language, learn our customs, abide by our laws, support yourself financially, dont try to take over and instill all your customs on the country that is allowing you a place to stay.

I think Nick griffin has some valid points regarding this country and a lot i dont agree with, but i know one thing, if we dont do something soon we wont have a country left because the main parties wont do anything for fear of being branded racist.
BTW, im not a racist.

Rant over

[Spiderman]

Special one.... you make some vary valid points there as well as some that seem to be more media induced than real.

Either way tho, i can see why the BNP get votes in certain areas and i certainly dont think that everyone who votes for them does so cos they are racist or bogotted, they do so cos the BNP are the only party who wants to actively talk about the issues that face folks today.

All the other major parties want to gloss over it all by using statistics to prove whatever it is they want them to prove and thus not get into a debate over these issues.

The main point you raise that hits home with me (as a foreigner who's family came here in 1978 seeking asylum, so i know it from both sides of the fence) is the need to come to the UK and not the nearest country to them.
There is apparently a law already in place that says that those seeking asylum (as opposed to those simply emigrating for work or whatever) from their own despotic/war torn/ evil and oppressive regimes should be taken in by the first country they enter into. But as you say most of those other european countires treat them so badly* compared to the treatment they get here that they all desperately travel across most of europe to plot up on this little island like its fekin Utopia or something.

*badly = expect the to live by the rules of that country with little by way of tollerance for those who wont blend into their new home. Very few other countries allow, for example the building of new mosques to cater for the religious. Look at France as an example, they banned the wearing of ANY religious iconorgaphy in their schools, for one reason only "school is an institution and place for one thing, learning" And by creating visual barriers of religion you bring about other influences other than simply learning, you bring about division, segregation and ultimately for some hostility.

Anyway i could prattle on about this for hours but i wont. Be an interesting show tonight hopefully and since i'll be out at the time i cant wait to see it when i get in.

[BernardBikerchick]

me not understand !?!!!

[Luckypants]

The main point you raise that hits home with me (as a foreigner who's family came here in 1978 seeking asylum, so i know it from both sides of the fence) is the need to come to the UK and not the nearest country to them.
There is apparently a law already in place that says that those seeking asylum (as opposed to those simply emigrating for work or whatever) from their own despotic/war torn/ evil and oppressive regimes should be taken in by the first country they enter into. But as you say most of those other european countires treat them so badly* compared to the treatment they get here that they all desperately travel across most of europe to plot up on this little island like its fekin Utopia or something.

*badly = expect the to live by the rules of that country with little by way of tollerance for those who wont blend into their new home. Very few other countries allow, for example the building of new mosques to cater for the religious. Look at France as an example, they banned the wearing of ANY religious iconorgaphy in their schools, for one reason only "school is an institution and place for one thing, learning" And by creating visual barriers of religion you bring about other influences other than simply learning, you bring about division, segregation and ultimately for some hostility.

Anyway i could prattle on about this for hours but i wont. Be an interesting show tonight hopefully and since i'll be out at the time i cant wait to see it when i get in.

You seem to undermine your own argument there Spidey. No asylum seeker NEEDS to come here for the reasons you give. An asylum seeker should surely apply for asylum in the first friendly country that they arrive in and this is a rule for granting asylum. As soon as they decide not to apply for asylum in France (to use your example) but carry on to the UK, they become economic migrants. That's not to say they should not be granted residency if they have skills we need, but they are not an assylum seeker at this point.

[plowsie]

Looks ike he's already getting a well prepared welcome at the BBC currently :D

[Sosha]

Just hope there can be some sort of genuine debate - not a stage managed slanging match.

[zsv650]

when's it on gonna watch it as he has some good point's nobody else has the ball's to mention or tackle.

[Spiderman]

You seem to undermine your own argument there Spidey. No asylum seeker NEEDS to come here for the reasons you give. An asylum seeker should surely apply for asylum in the first friendly country that they arrive in and this is a rule for granting asylum. As soon as they decide not to apply for asylum in France (to use your example) but carry on to the UK, they become economic migrants. That's not to say they should not be granted residency if they have skills we need, but they are not an assylum seeker at this point.

Ok to clarify my own situation....when we first came here life was good and money was plentifull. The wisdom in those days was that if you wanted your kids to get a great education you sent them to public school or boading school in england. We came here with that idea and bought a house etc.
then a bunch of friggin religious fanatic loons took over our country and ousted the previous guy and we were kinda stuck. No money allowed out the country, family getting killed in droves and their land and possesions being stolen. So we had to stay and seek asylum.

Sorry i didnt wanna go into that much detail cos i find as i get older this episode bothers me more and more than it ever did.
Anyway, there you have it. Then i got bit by a radioactive spider and hell we all know the rest dont we.

[Luckypants]

I want to watch it, because I want to see if his ideas and policies stand the scrutiny of reasoned debate (not a slanging match). I hope the other parties have put up good debaters against him.

I expect his ideas to crumble in the face of a reasoned argument and this is the way folk of his ilk are defeated.

To those that have said they won't watch, but are interested in the outcome. WATCH IT! Form your own opinions on this man and his party. See how the mainstream parties debate the issues he brings up, see how he faces up to the debate.

I find Question Time informative, frustrating, enlightening (at times) but never boring.

[Luckypants]

Stuff about his personal situation
Was not a go at you personally. I was making the point about when a genuine asylum case become economic migration.

[Spiderman]

no i got your point mate, didnt think you were ahving a go, just thought i needed to clarify how i came to be here thru no fault of my own, lol.
And carries on the idea that all refugees should go to the first port of safety, and if they do carry on they become simple economic migrants as you so rightly say.

[Specialone]

Spidey,
I understand all your points, but there is still an underlying wrong message we send out in this country about asylum otherwise those being persecuted in their countries wouldnt travel the distance they do / go to the trouble they do to get here.

I also fully agree with your statement about the other parties not wanting to address these things hence support for the only party (BNP) that seems to want to tackle them.

There is a a lot of claimed asylum seekers who are nothing more than economic migrants. (your situation excluded)

There is also a lot of people travelling from other countries that have no intention of working here, intergrating here, contributing here.

The ones that can offer this country something, then providing there is room, then fair play, welcome.

All i care about is this country, i want it to keep it's traditions, its a predominantly christian country (im not religious) so should remain that way.
I dont think we as british could go to the majority of other countries and get away with the things that some foreigners do here in terms of rights, etc.
Dont get me wrong, there's also a lot of british here who are just freeloaders but the BNP dont mention them for some reason.
Phil

[Ch00]

Looks like theres quite a gathering outside the BBC. Some people were removed from there.

[suzijax]

Shut the floodgates we are already drowning on this tiny island. If ANYONE wants to come into this country must have the money in the bank to support themselves and also have a job to come to if they havent either dont bother coming over Australia has it bang to rights in my opinion. As for asylum seekers dont really understand the rules there but if they are genuinely in need then they must be assesed on their own merits. As for the BNP they have every right to be on tv and SOME of their ideas i totally agree with but a hell of a lot are pathetic

[Spiderman]

i'm only half way thru watching this having recorded it earleir tonight.

So far all they are doing is ripping into griffin. I dont think ive seen an episode of question time where only 1 member of the panel has been the focus all the time.

[the_lone_wolf]

i'm only half way thru watching this having recorded it earleir tonight.

So far all they are doing is ripping into griffin. I dont think ive seen an episode of question time where only 1 member of the panel has been the focus all the time.

It's a shame, I missed the program itself (damn Windows 7...) but every clip I've viewed so far has been him trying to make a point and being shouted down by the other panelists, with a riotous yell from the audiance

Undoubtedly a disaster for Freeman and the BNP, but that was always going to be the case, his policies and views were never going to make it possible for him to make a logical argument. The sad thing is the other panelists, and to some extent the audience, seemed to stoop to the whooping, childish level you'd expect from a bunch of Nazi skinheads. I almost expected someone to start a "Jerry.. Jerry.. Jerry..." chant any moment. Sad because they didn't have to make themselves look so unable to rebuff such a poor argument calmly and logically

A victory for democracy? I thnk the only victor was trash TV:???:

[Viney]

I ended up going to the pub so missed it. Will watch it on Iplayer tonight when i get home. Apprently though it wasnt as good as it could have been!

[the white rabbit]

I watched it this morning on iPlayer. None of them conducted themselves very well in my opinion, including Nick Griffin.

I did expect him to be able to espouse his opinons better, because when you have extreme/different (delete as appropriate) views you had better be good at the rhetoric/background/facts/getting the message home. He was no Adolph Hitler :smt076, Mosely or Enoch Powell, (insert name of leader/politician with extremist viewpoint here) then again they never had to go on Question Time (well maybe Powell did, no idea) :smt069

He is obviously a rallying point, which is of course an important issue.

[Jdubya]

Yep, as predicted it turned out to be a witchhunt against the BNP. Had the program been filmed outside of London, I think he may have stood a better chance. He was as out of place on that panel as a black man at a KKK meeting.

That idiot tory woman just ****ed me off and as for jack straw, well, always the politician 'ey.

[fizzwheel]

Heres what the BBC themselves have to say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321683.stm

Just felt a bit to me that it got out of control and there was alot of shouting down rather than points being discussed or debated. It also felt abit like it was

"lets wheel him out let him and then point and laugh at him"

I wander if he had gone on Radio 4 on Today or Any Questions whether it might have been handled differently and he might have got a chance to dig himself deeper into a hole / make himself look even dafter than he did.

It might have been a little less sensationalist that way to.

The opinion I was left with was the Griffin is like a little boy completely out of his depth, he doesnt really understand anything and he might as well have said "This is what I think and you arent going to change my mind, even if I know that what you say is right and that I am wrong"

[Dicky Ticker]

It was interesting that the people asking the questions spoke with accents and I would have liked to known how many of them had British Birth Certificates also that J Straw would not give a straight answer regarding capping immigrants where as other EU countries apart from Ireland have and the look on his face when Griffin said his father served in the RAF while J Straw's spent the war imprisoned for being a war objector and him being of Jewish descent Classic---EXCUSE ME I am African Caribbean not an Afro Caribbean
Even Greer who was the non politician and speaks with an American accent had to refer back to the ice-age when the indigenous topic was raised to find an excuse
I do think the whole thing was conducted with a leftie bias and was no way impartial, showing the BBC and the politicians in a bad light as all they were doing was use the platform to promote there party

[the_lone_wolf]

I wander if he had gone on Radio 4 on Today or Any Questions whether it might have been handled differently and he might have got a chance to dig himself deeper into a hole / make himself look even dafter than he did.

I've listened to the Today show for the last ten years or so and I think I could count on one hand the number of times someone bested John Humphrys...

He'd have been destroyed:cool:

[fizzwheel]

I've listened to the Today show for the last ten years or so and I think I could count on one hand the number of times someone bested John Humphrys...

He'd have been destroyed:cool:

Aye he'd have made micemeat out of him.

[captainsmelly]

wanted to see what the bnp website said about how last night went, their main site is 'down' but this instead

http://bnp.org.uk/tempsite/

oh look they put muslims on there, cos muslims are bad init. That ginger kid is the future of britain? ********

[MiniMatt]

The reaction to Spidey's background is interesting. I think a number of folks (thinking country wide here, not really specifically the forum) have this idea that the majority of asylum seekers are freeloaders but accept that there are exceptions, and well, Spidey's a nice guy, he's made a contribution etc, his story sounds like a "genuine" case of asylum etc. What I can't quite get is how people arrive at the notion that backgrounds like Spidey's are the exception (well, maybe not the public school bit) and not the norm with the exception being the freeloaders?

Another example I always raise is an old boss of mine. His folks came to the UK when Idi Amin went mental. They arrived penniless, a burden on the state. They perhaps could have ended up in France, Spain, hell anywhere, but for whatever reason they ended up in the UK. The UK then supported them at cost to the taxpayer, it educated their kids - there was a net cost to the UK finances. Then their British educated kids grew up, became succesful, one of them started a succesful business, paying lots of tax and employing lots of "indigenous" white folk, who in turn paid more tax - one of them being me. It's been a long term thing - but the cost of supporting a family 40 odd years ago, of providing housing, healthcare, education and welfare, has now been repaid several times over with their kids providing employment and wealth to many individuals and to the UK finances as a whole. If they'd have ended up in France, or Spain, or wherever else, then the UK wouldn't be reaping those rewards.

[Dicky Ticker]

Can somebody please explain how so many asylum seekers travel through so many different countries where they are not persecuted ,spending loads of money to do this illegally,to pop up on our doorstep

Who's being the Muppet's in this situation?

Sorry I am a cynic and all the do gooders must live on a different planet-----its not a 60p bus ride from Uganda to here and I transported enough personal effects of the Asian Uganda refugees to know that the example quoted above is a rare one.

Look at it another way,they came,took advantage of the education,plus all the assistance they were given,majority worked but few as in the circumstances above
which may or may not have canceled out the initial cost to the tax payer.
But the majority of these people are now using our free medical service and pension service in their old age for the next 15-20years. 1974-2009=35years national insurance contributions and tax provided they worked-----do the maths

[Luckypants]

Another example I always raise is an old boss of mine. His folks came to the UK when Idi Amin went mental. They arrived penniless, a burden on the state. They perhaps could have ended up in France, Spain, hell anywhere, but for whatever reason they ended up in the UK. The UK then supported them at cost to the taxpayer, it educated their kids - there was a net cost to the UK finances. Then their British educated kids grew up, became succesful, one of them started a succesful business, paying lots of tax and employing lots of "indigenous" white folk, who in turn paid more tax - one of them being me. It's been a long term thing - but the cost of supporting a family 40 odd years ago, of providing housing, healthcare, education and welfare, has now been repaid several times over with their kids providing employment and wealth to many individuals and to the UK finances as a whole. If they'd have ended up in France, or Spain, or wherever else, then the UK wouldn't be reaping those rewards.

Another example of genuine asylum cases. Britain agreed to make many 'Ugandan Asians' (funny how a phrase from the news sticks with you from an early age) as there was a moral argument for us to do this, due to those folks ancestors ending up in Uganda as a result of the British Empire (happy to be corrected here). Britain was the first friendly country for them as most were flown in directly from Kampala, by prior arrangement. These were genuine political refugees, persecuted and expelled from their own country, stateless and many without a pot to **** in. Of course such people will be a burden on the state when they arrive, but a genuine refugee that has fled such persecution seems to relish the opportunity of a new life and soon pulls themselves up by their bootstraps to become 'contributors'. The 'Ugandan Asians' as a group seem to have been an industrious bunch and the small number I have met (or their kids) have all been successful.

The 'asylum seekers' who arrive here via other safe countries, 'losing' their documents on the way became economic migrants as soon as they pass up the opportunity of claiming asylum in that first safe country IMO.

[BanditPat]

It was griffins right to be on that show as a member of that political party, no one said you have to agree with what he says or has said that was a biased debate with such a large proportion of the audience being of a different race. Its the protesters that got on my nerves though what do they think gives them the right to injure, attack and steal from the police? If i was to hazard a guess I would be tempted to say that a vast majority of the people that took part in that 'protest' were immigrants or asylum seekers. It really should have been held in a different venue rather than a city with that high of a multicultural mix, some where with closer to the national average would have been a better place at least then there might have been some real questions in that show.

[Spiderman]

tbh i think they way they treated thy guy showed a huge lack of all the things britain claims to pride itself on, freedom of speech, tolerance and an openness to debate with those of other views.

This Govt wants us to believe they are actively in "dialogue" with extremists muslims in this country to try and change their minds for example. Really? an elected MEP (whether any of us like that or not, its the case) cant even get a fair debate without being shouted down, are we really in dialogue with extremists?

i dont agree with a lot of his views but dammit the debate we've had on here regarding the rights and wrongs of the current immigration system has been far more in depth than anything they had last night.

I agree with Fizz, it really was a case of wheel him out so people can jeer at him and when the audience's blood lust is sated move on to the next topic to tear into him for.

Jack Straw is far more of a figure of hate to me than griffin is tbh. At least griffin gives his view, straw just waffles and waffles and brings in many other points that have nothing to do with the question put to him, like the pro politico he is, but thankfully Dimbleby pulled him up and made him answer the question instead of spouting irrelevant tripe...and then the smarmy git says "i already answered you". God i hate that man.

[yorkie_chris]

Wot larks eh? :p

The ones who want to debate a subject? Or those who use violence and political oppression just because they don't like someone's views.

The nazis rose from post WW1 poverty/unemployment. It could so easily happen here

Nah you've got it all wrong, so long as you're on the extreme left then any violence and political oppression is fine!

Look at the number of current and past people in power who have far-left extremist pasts. Not a peep from the press about that one eh? But if they find out you once had a pint with a member of the national front etc. then you're instantly crucified :-P
I have a visceral hatred for those who wear a red star and pretend to understand that ideology with no idea of the background...


The other problem I see with Griffin being on television is that he is DEMANDING Police protection at the studio as there is such a row and because some of the audience members are Holocaust survivors, victims of racial hate crimes, etc etc. How much is that costing us as the taxpayer? Just so he can spout a lot of rubbish?

The police protect any other MP from "right wing thugs" without a peep.

Bad move IMO though, he should have accepted any abuse. Getting a bit of a kicking from some left wing rseholes would have been a PR coup for the BNP.

Dunno who's in the background, but just hope they don't read up anything on Josef Goebbels...


Dont get me wrong, there's also a lot of british here who are just freeloaders but the BNP dont mention them for some reason.
Phil

Yes but it would be incredibly foolish to alienate the inbred, barely literate council estate scum who are so easily won over as voters!

[the white rabbit]

Yes but it would be incredibly foolish to alienate the inbred, barely literate council estate folks who are so easily won over as voters!

:smt023

Quite agree.

[yorkie_chris]

Notice you changed "scum" to "folks".

Never been to Halifax, have you? :-P

[wyrdness]

Just to inject some humour into this:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/bnp-to-offer-free-didgeridoo-lessons-200910232162/

[Dicky Ticker]

You lot crease me up----"Barely literate council estate folks" who were probably the working classes who served in two world wars to give this country its freedom. I come from a council estate in a mining community I am not an inbred and I would like to meet the person who has the guts to go and start shouting that in a council estate,easy to do sitting behind a keyboard
What about the police protection given to the hate preachers on the other side of the fence,racism works two ways but you seem blinkered, and only looking at it with tunnel vision. Who commit the most race/religious crimes? sorry are the white population planning bombings and flying planes into buildings.
Can you have the same freedom in Muslim countries as they have here ?

Come into the real world and at least try and see things as they are,not just the high caste who have become politicians/councilors etc. Try walking round certain areas at night of towns and cities with a large influx of foreign nationals and tell me you don't feel intimidated

[Spiderman]

good article, :lol:

[Spiderman]

Try walking round certain areas at night of towns and cities with a large influx of foreign nationals and tell me you don't feel intimidated

tbh with you i feel the same way whether its a town full of Polish, Indian, Muslims, British Whites etc.

lets not forget Steven Lawrence was attacked for no good reason by a bunch of white thugs for no reason other than he was black.


Whilst on holiday in parts of Cornwall last year by bike it was very intimidating for me to pull up into little towns where almost every pub shop and house had flags hanging outside showing they were brits. You have any idea how unwelcoming that was for me? And i've been here since i was 6.

Racism works in many many ways and exists for many many reasons.

lets not get into the whole 9/11 debate here but there are a huge number of people who dont believe that ANY muslims were behind those attacks. And lets not forget the israeli company who admits to forwarded texts on the day that warned jewish employees not to go to work that day.

now whats worse in my mind is not the terrorism but the fact that someone knew of the impending attack and chose only to tell some who they thought were worthy of life and let the rest die. That is an even worse form of terrorism in my eyes.

However if it were up to me i'd take a leaf out the Frenchies handbook and ban all public displays of religion, including turbans and religious beards as well as skull caps etc. i see no reason why people should show division in such an obvious visual way, keep that for your place or religion and your home. But we are way too far gone down a different road for that to work in this country now.

[yorkie_chris]

You lot crease me up----"Barely literate council estate folks" who were probably the working classes who served in two world wars to give this country its freedom.

sorry are the white population planning bombings and flying planes into buildings.

Can you have the same freedom in Muslim countries as they have here?

You make some good points.

BUT look at the BNP supporters from Mixenden estate just down the road from me, inbred, retarded chavs who voted BNP because "the pakis get loads more stuff than us, innit". Ah sorry you said "working class", "work" is a swear word down there!
See much connection between that sort of "person" and working class folk who fought in the wars etc? Didn't think so.
Gurkhas, Indians, Africans, Arabs, Egyptians and countless other nations fought in WW2 as well, but of course that wouldn't occur to the likes of the chavs around here.


Regarding the white population planting bombs all over the place... well to be fair the white as you and I IRA were doing the whole terrorism thing a lot more than the muslims are now a few years ago!


Regarding freedom in muslim countries, I am of the firm belief that if any muslim over here wants to see sharia law or any other barbarian filth like it then they should kindly go somewhere where that is the practice.
I have similar views on wearing religious garments in schools etc.
But that isn't the arguement here.

[the white rabbit]

With all respect Dicky, I think you are living in the past.

Example?

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Videos-Racist-Bristol-scum-beat-Asian-shopkeepers/article-1446821-detail/article.html

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Southmead-racist-claim-week/article-1446852-detail/article.html

Cant comment on the residences of the former.

But these people are examples of home grown citizens.

So happens these are related to racism, which is flavour of the week. But it could just be any type of antisocial behaviour.

Of course there are many examples of honest to goodness council estate folk. But clearly there are also examples of the opposite. The point is who is attracted to the BNP? Probably both.

[the white rabbit]

I would like to meet the person who has the guts to go and start shouting that in a council estate,easy to do sitting behind a keyboard

Why can't we come and shout that in a council estate? Would we be met with reasoned debate, or do we have something to fear? ;)

I think I know the answer.

[Specialone]

You lot crease me up----"Barely literate council estate folks" who were probably the working classes who served in two world wars to give this country its freedom. I come from a council estate in a mining community I am not an inbred and I would like to meet the person who has the guts to go and start shouting that in a council estate,easy to do sitting behind a keyboard
What about the police protection given to the hate preachers on the other side of the fence,racism works two ways but you seem blinkered, and only looking at it with tunnel vision. Who commit the most race/religious crimes? sorry are the white population planning bombings and flying planes into buildings.
Can you have the same freedom in Muslim countries as they have here ?

DT, fully agree with your points, im also from a council estate and not an in bred, but i get YC's point also.
tbh i think they way they treated thy guy showed a huge lack of all the things britain claims to pride itself on, freedom of speech, tolerance and an openness to debate with those of other views.

This Govt wants us to believe they are actively in "dialogue" with extremists muslims in this country to try and change their minds for example. Really? an elected MEP (whether any of us like that or not, its the case) cant even get a fair debate without being shouted down, are we really in dialogue with extremists?

i dont agree with a lot of his views but dammit the debate we've had on here regarding the rights and wrongs of the current immigration system has been far more in depth than anything they had last night.

Jack Straw is far more of a figure of hate to me than griffin is tbh. At least griffin gives his view, straw just waffles and waffles and brings in many other points that have nothing to do with the question put to him, like the pro politico he is, but thankfully Dimbleby pulled him up and made him answer the question instead of spouting irrelevant tripe...and then the smarmy git says "i already answered you". God i hate that man.

I agree, all jack straw done last night was reel off history, no real opposition to BNP's policies.

tbh with you i feel the same way whether its a town full of Polish, Indian, Muslims, British Whites etc.

Whilst on holiday in parts of Cornwall last year by bike it was very intimidating for me to pull up into little towns where almost every pub shop and house had flags hanging outside showing they were brits. You have any idea how unwelcoming that was for me? And i've been here since i was 6.

Disagree there spidey, i dont feel you should feel intimidated because of a british flag, majority are just being patriotic.
You do get more flags down s/west for some reason, but you also get that a lot in USA, its mostly showing alegience to the nation.

Racism works in many many ways and exists for many many reasons.

lets not get into the whole 9/11 debate here but there are a huge number of people who dont believe that ANY muslims were behind those attacks. And lets not forget the israeli company who admits to forwarded texts on the day that warned jewish employees not to go to work that day.

now whats worse in my mind is not the terrorism but the fact that someone knew of the impending attack and chose only to tell some who they thought were worthy of life and let the rest die. That is an even worse form of terrorism in my eyes.

However if it were up to me i'd take a leaf out the Frenchies handbook and ban all public displays of religion, including turbans and religious beards as well as skull caps etc. i see no reason why people should show division in such an obvious visual way, keep that for your place or religion and your home. But we are way too far gone down a different road for that to work in this country now.

I do fully agree with you on this one though, religion has a lot to answer for, far more than colour of our skins.

Nick griffin, if the BNP want to be taken seriously, needs to step down cos his past is overshadowing anything else and get someone in who's squeaky clean and can be taken seriously.

[Dicky Ticker]

All I am trying to say in all this debacle is that there is a much bigger picture than just the BNP and Griffin.
I am not racist, homophobic or religious----everybody to their own but don't try and ram it down my throat. What I do indoors or think in my head is for me to decide.
What is done in the name of whatever in public is a different matter as this can influence a lot of people who can't reason and form on opinion of their own and these groups play on this.
We live in a democratic[allegedly] society and the power we have is, as a voter, therefore if a party or person is using their entitlement to free speech I have the choice to listen or not listen but everybody has to be given this equal opportunity to do this providing what is being said doesn't contravene race/religious/hatred laws.
I do try and keep a broad spectrum so that I can form an educated opinion as to what I consider the best policy and vote accordingly
Unfortunately we are all different in this,thus the different parties, and I have yet to find the one that fits my perfect ideals so I use what is available out of a bad lot.

I just think that classifying people and putting them down for what they are is not the answer,hence my somewhat controversial replies

[Dicky Ticker]

By the way I have found this an interesting debate.

[yorkie_chris]

I just think that classifying people and putting them down for what they are is not the answer,hence my somewhat controversial replies

Of course it is the answer, if I had to classify people as individuals it would take ages. Stereotypes are a very convenient way of slating whole swathes of the population in manageable chunks :-D

[Specialone]

Another point, Following on from what YC said regarding sterotypes, we all probably have some kinda view about certain races or nations which could be perceived as racist by some, but the fact of the matter is majority of us make up our minds on people who we meet in our day to day lives regardless of colour etc, some are dicks some are good people.
I find some other cultures fascinating, i have spoken to a lot of indian doctors who have been colleagues of my wife and they have been really interesting people, far more so than some english ;).
What im saying is, we might all think dont want bloody germans or pakistanis or muslims or whoever over here but individuals when we meet them we relax our views on them as we have actually met them and got on with them.
Struggling to get my point across so if i have confused anybody then that makes two of us.:confused:

[Bluefish]

oi you lot i live on a council estate, even if i have bought the house, well the bank has, and if i find out where you live i'll come and put your windows through, reet. ;)

[Quiff Wichard]

well I thought it was an Ok programme - but it was centred on the BNP.. which it was always likely to be-- which is what he wanted..
We live in a democracy - a million folk voted for him so he has the right to be on there..

However, there is a postal strike on and it wasnt discussed. it seemed to be a set up with a hand picked audience that wanted to hang draw and quarter him.. bit of a witch hunt really I thought rather than the usual debate that question time is..

[zsv650]

it did seem very immature and like a mob picking on one guy instead of a reasoned and sound debate on important issues waste of time tbh it just showed them all up.

[lukemillar]

Struggling to get my point across so if i have confused anybody then that makes two of us.:confused:

So what you are saying is that you a pre-disposed to dislike other nationalities until you meet and get to know them on a personal level? :confused:

If that is the case then, everyone who is not from the UK, should probably view the UK population as a bunch of football yobs who pretty much get into a fight with foreign fans every single time they attend and international sporting event!

I am from the UK, but for the past 3 years have lived in a number of different countries. I also work in an industry where I have a lot of foreign colleagues. One thing I have come to realise from this experience is how much the British population is prejudiced against other nationalities. My family is like this and makes me feel embarrased to be British sometimes.

[Sid Squid]

it seemed to be a set up with a hand picked audience that wanted to hang draw and quarter him

My thoughts exactly - the audience demographic was visibly different from the usual, and clearly the usual disparate views and positions were absent.

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/fatgrill.jpg

Zombie thread. but this made me laugh.

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/bnp-question-time-to-replace-christmas-for-guardian-readers-200910292179/

[ophic]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/bnp-question-time-to-replace-christmas-for-guardian-readers-200910292179/
A daily mash article for every thread? :p

[yorkie_chris]

Hell yes, haven't looked on there in ages!