two lane roundabout laws

[nik_nunez]

trying to find some info around the laws on two lane (dual carriageway roundabouts)

the roundabout in question has no road markings before the roundabout, and has 2 lanes coming on and off the roundabout - i assume the rules are the left lane for left and straight and the right lane for right and straigh

i know there are about 4-5 roundabout close to this one that are all road marked as above but what are the laws if the roundabout is unmarked?

ive looked online and cant find anything,

found this

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338

but that does not really answer my questions, any help would be gratefully recieved

[the_lone_wolf]

what are the laws if the roundabout is unmarked?

There aren't any "laws" as in it won't appear on a statute book

But my understanding is, if you're at a 4 leg r/bout you use the left lane to go left or straight over, the right hand lane to turn right

If there's no right turn leg you use the left hand lane to go left and the right hand lane to go straight over

This is assuming you've got single lane exits, if you have a dual lane exit you can use the right hand lane to go straight over


Frankly, the best advice is, that given the fact that even if you're aware of the correct procedure, 90% of the other road users aren't and to be prepared to account for their bellendery...

[nik_nunez]

yeah it was a dual entrance and exit on the roundabout, well no wonder i cant find anything is there is nothing to find

[Dicky Ticker]

Only signal your intention i.e. pealing off left when level with the junction before the one you intend to take. Where lane markings exist they are the precident

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on. You can only go one way round a roundabout

[_Stretchie_]

You're not near Chippenham are you?

There is a similar one going South from Chippenham and you ALWAYS get some fool in the left hand side of the enbtrance with no idicator who goes past two exits and off at the third (basically taking a right)

[nik_nunez]

well thats what happened, i was in the right lane to go straight and a taxi was in the left lane to go right (so he went past 2 exits as he hit me), as you can imagine he hit me as i went to exit, but his insurances company have said it was my fault as i should have not been going straight from the right lane even tho it is 2 lanes on and off,

now i have told my insurance company not to accept their claim but was just looking for some laws to back things up

[_Stretchie_]

Fingers crossed for you

[the_lone_wolf]

now i have told my insurance company not to accept their claim but was just looking for some laws to back things up

The laws and HC are deliberately vague as each situation is different and should be viewed on it's own merit

However, assuming we're getting the whole story and you're describing a bog standard 4 leg 12, 3, 6, 9o'clock roundabout I'd say there's very little the other party could produce to support their assertion that it's reasonable to expect a vehicle to take exit three from the left hand entry lane

I think they're just trying it on, stand your ground and threaten them with court if they continue, I'd wager they, or their insurers, will cave...:cool:

[Owenski]

How about the law of common sense, forward planning alone should have had him in the right hand lane to turn right. 2 lanes or not its bloody stupid to be in the left lane if your turning right!
Left lane should be left or 1st lane of the 2 on the straight ahead exit carridgeway.
Right lane should be 2nd lane of the straight ahead exit carridgeway or Right.

You wouldnt go in the right hand lane and turn left, so why would you go in the left to turn right... oh and SMACK!

(The smack gesture is justified when dealing with a complete ****ing idiot)

[Owenski]

I will add one thing, the only argument they could have is that you went across his path. So dispite his error in navigation it was your action which caused the collision. Had you done a life saver, you'd have seen the danger and continued around the roundabout for a 2nd lap. Ta-Da Accident avioded. Thinking about it, its prob best you dont bring that up with the insurers. :) hope your ok anyway.

[punyXpress]

[QUOTE=Dicky Ticker;2078724]

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on. You can only go one way round a roundabout

These are the poor lost souls ( Halloween's their night ) who drive Marie Celestes & are doomed to go round forever until they either run out of fuel or lose the will to live - usually the latter!

[TEC]

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on.....
The idea is that people waiting to pull out might not knowing you are going to pass in front of them and not peel off at the next junction

[Bluefish]

[QUOTE=Dicky Ticker;2078724]

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on. You can only go one way round a roundabout

These are the poor lost souls ( Halloween's their night ) who drive Marie Celestes & are doomed to go round forever until they either run out of fuel or lose the will to live - usually the latter!

did you have to pass a test?

[ophic]

The idea is that people waiting to pull out might not knowing you are going to pass in front of them and not peel off at the next junction
It's also written in the highway code to do so. In fact the only time you shouldn't be indicating on a "normal" roundabout is when you're going straight on and haven't reached your exit yet.

[Red Herring]

Basically if you were cutting across on front of the other vehicle to exit the roundabout then expect some grief. You would have to show that they did something to cause you to think they were taking the same exit as you (for example were they indicating left) for you to stand any chance.

[2hys]

the left-hand drive foreign lorry drivers allways use the left hand lane at roundabouts weather there going left, right, stright on or back the way they came!! and wont see you in there mirrors as they lose all vision down the right hand side when they turn right!, i use the same rule for everyone at roundabouts......there out to kill you!

[DMC]

well thats what happened, i was in the right lane to go straight and a taxi was in the left lane to go right (so he went past 2 exits as he hit me), as you can imagine he hit me as i went to exit, but his insurances company have said it was my fault as i should have not been going straight from the right lane even tho it is 2 lanes on and off,

now i have told my insurance company not to accept their claim but was just looking for some laws to back things up

You need to look at rule 162 of the Highway Code. This says "when taking the last exit or going full circle:

1. signal right and aproach in the right hand lane
2. keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes and exit the roundabout
3. signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

Sounds like the manouvre the taxi was doing, but not in accordance with the above :(

[svdemon]

Only signal your intention i.e. pealing off left when level with the junction before the one you intend to take. Where lane markings exist they are the precident

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on. You can only go one way round a roundabout

So you are one of these ****s??? One of my pet hates that!

[boot]

Indicators also let pedestrians know driver intentions.

Not only is it totally fecking lazy and inconsiderate to not indicate - the switch, lever whatever can't be more than a few inches away, but it also fuels congestion at busy roundabouts.

[nik_nunez]

i did do a lifesaver but he was so close i could not avoid him fully, but i did try to turn away and was almost at a standstill when he hit me

either way i look at it he was in the left lane indicating right and going past 2 turn off to go right which is against the highway code, yeah in essense i went in front of him but i had a right to turn off, if he was going striaght like the law states it would have been ok

[boot]

i did do a lifesaver but he was so close i could not avoid him fully, but i did try to turn away and was almost at a standstill when he hit me

either way i look at it he was in the left lane indicating right and going past 2 turn off to go right which is against the highway code, yeah in essense i went in front of him but i had a right to turn off, if he was going striaght like the law states it would have been ok

The highway code is not the law, it is a set of guidelines, a best practice if you will, however clearly states where a rule is also governed by law, such as in rule 188.

For your issue, I would say you were both in the wrong, but more the other party than yourself. Using The Road - Roundabouts (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338) read rule 186. If taking an exit to the right (doesn't matter how many exits), approach in the right lane and indicate right. For intermediate exits (you), select the appropriate lane. It's fair to say that although technically you should have been in the left lane, your lane was still appropriate, as no road user should have been turning right from the left lane, indeed, as you say he was indicating, his lane discipline is worse than yours, as the rule is much clearer in this regard.

[Thingus]

Some spastics decided that on some roundabouts the right hand lane should be used for straight on, but that's apparently signposted every time.
Highway code ain't the law but if you go right from the left hand lane you'll get pulled over I'd imagine.

If you're going straight on and there's two lanes on the exit, it'd be reasonable to be in the right hand lane to use the right exit, on the assumption (they kill, i know) that anyone in the left lane has brains enough not to go right, and even if they're going straight on, wouldn't move over to the right hand lane without checking their mirrors and blind spots. I do it as many others do, but it depends on the roundabout as well i guess.

[Dicky Ticker]

Having "Brains enough" is a rare commodity among some drivers--there lies the problem

[petevtwin650]

I work on an industrial estate and the main roundabout has dual carriageway up to it and on the left and straight ahead junctions. Kn0bheads are coming up on the right hand lane then turning left. Sometimes without any indicating. Given that the straight ahead dual carriageway is a link berween the A5 and M1 you can imagine there is a lot of traffic that goes straight on from the left hand lane, and rightly so. Seen many a close call, and I always worry if a bike is filtering that a vehicle doing what I believe is an illegal move, will have them off.

[sinbad]

If it's two lanes on and two lanes off then of course you can use either to go straight on (assuming a typical 4 exit roundabout and no signs or road-markings to dictate otherwise).

The taxi driver made a dumbass move and probably at the last second realised it wasn't his exit, maybe you should infer that to your insurers. It's unpredictable behaviour and there isn't a great deal you can do about something like that, lifesaver or no lifesaver. It's akin to a lane-swap from the taxi driver without so much as a glance.

[IzoAzlion]

The one thing I can't understand is people who go round a roundabout with the righthand indicator on. You can only go one way round a roundabout

Because it shows the guy in the car coming up to the roundabout that you're carrying on round it, and prevents them running straight into the side of you as you head for that third exit.

... then you nudge "left" to show where you're coming off

Not signalling is one of my pet peeves with regards to roundabouts.

[timwilky]

I was under the impression that you indicated your intention on joining, ie left if you are taking the first exit no indication if you are going straight over, or a continuing right if you intend to be taking the 3rd+ exits.

You then indicate left to show your intention to leave the roundabout once you have cleared the exit that proceeds the one you intend to take.

for most roundabouts there are no hard rules, convention dictates the lh lane if you intend to take the first exit or straight on. the rh lane if you intend to go straight on or take a right hand exit.

traffic in the first lane, should expect traffic in the second to attempt to exit if it is a two lane exit. However, traffic in the second lane should not cut traffic in the first. so my interpretation is. If you are in the second lane and intend to exit into the right hand lane of an exit. It is your duty to make sure your exit is clear. You are the one making the manoeuvre. The idiot to your left does not have to let you across his path.

[Dicky Ticker]

Izzy---Fine idea but the rule is indicate when you are turning off and give priority to vehicles already on the round about. If you are both going straight over the roundabout you having past the first exit would have your indicator signalling left that you intend coming off anyway
If your intention is to take the third exit you will be signalling from the the second exit that you intend coming off at the third exit
Taking the senario you are on the roundabout with the intention to take the third exit and the other vehicle is approaching the second entry to the roundabout
both vehicles approaching the roundabout from directly opposite directions
When your vehicle is seen by the vehicle from the opposite direction he does not know if you intend continuing round to the fourth exit if you have your r/h indicator on. Due to his line of vision your indicator is only visible on the approach towards him ,the transision between r/h and l/h happens when you are side on to him and if the only indicator he sees is your l/h indication he should have no doubts about your intentions where as if he has only seen the r/h indicator he may try and filter in on your left and you end up cutting directly across the path of your exit.

Sorry it is very hard to expain

[sinbad]

I was under the impression that you indicated your intention on joining, ie left if you are taking the first exit no indication if you are going straight over, or a continuing right if you intend to be taking the 3rd+ exits.

You then indicate left to show your intention to leave the roundabout once you have cleared the exit that proceeds the one you intend to take.

for most roundabouts there are no hard rules, convention dictates the lh lane if you intend to take the first exit or straight on. the rh lane if you intend to go straight on or take a right hand exit.

traffic in the first lane, should expect traffic in the second to attempt to exit if it is a two lane exit. However, traffic in the second lane should not cut traffic in the first. so my interpretation is. If you are in the second lane and intend to exit into the right hand lane of an exit. It is your duty to make sure your exit is clear. You are the one making the manoeuvre. The idiot to your left does not have to let you across his path.

We agree the person doing a lap of the roundabout in the outside lane is an idiot, but if it's a two lane exit then it's hard to predict that someone could do this, no matter how diligent and aware you are. Even if they were alongside you from the entry to the exit, you can only assume they're taking the left hand lane straight on.

You don't hold back when alongside someone at traffic lights because they'll possibly turn right from the left hand lane.

It would be their fault entirely if they, for some reason, chose to exit in the right hand lane straight on (making a bizarre late lane change) and you were already there, so what's the difference here? Surely you can't just choose to use only the outside lane of a major roundabout whatever your intended exit and not be at all culpable when the inevitable happens.

[ophic]

Izzy---Fine idea but the rule is indicate when you are turning off and give priority to vehicles already on the round about. If you are both going straight over the roundabout you having past the first exit would have your indicator signalling left that you intend coming off anyway
If your intention is to take the third exit you will be signalling from the the second exit that you intend coming off at the third exit
Taking the senario you are on the roundabout with the intention to take the third exit and the other vehicle is approaching the second entry to the roundabout
both vehicles approaching the roundabout from directly opposite directions
When your vehicle is seen by the vehicle from the opposite direction he does not know if you intend continuing round to the fourth exit if you have your r/h indicator on. Due to his line of vision your indicator is only visible on the approach towards him ,the transision between r/h and l/h happens when you are side on to him and if the only indicator he sees is your l/h indication he should have no doubts about your intentions where as if he has only seen the r/h indicator he may try and filter in on your left and you end up cutting directly across the path of your exit.

Sorry it is very hard to expain
From the perspective of someone approaching or waiting to enter the roundabout, no indicator or right hand indicator from traffic on the roundabout means pretty much the same thing - that he's not gonna take the next exit. However on many roundabouts you have visibility further than just one junction, so it can be useful.

But as you're approaching the roundabout, intending to turn right, you should be indicating right anyway. So in order to not indicate right, you have to deliberately cancel your indicator once on the roundabout, which is quite unnecessary.

What i'm saying is, you have to perform an extra action to not indicate. Why bother?

[nik_nunez]

If it's two lanes on and two lanes off then of course you can use either to go straight on (assuming a typical 4 exit roundabout and no signs or road-markings to dictate otherwise).

The taxi driver made a dumbass move and probably at the last second realised it wasn't his exit, maybe you should infer that to your insurers. It's unpredictable behaviour and there isn't a great deal you can do about something like that, lifesaver or no lifesaver. It's akin to a lane-swap from the taxi driver without so much as a glance.

see his passenger was a witness in my favour and when i checked her address on the multi map she lived to the right of the roundabout, so he knew in advance of getting to the roundabout that he wanted to turn right, he just never engaged his brain to think the left lane is not the best place to be

[Dicky Ticker]

I give up---very hard to try and explain but I will to try and clarify.
Double approach to the round about,lane selection appropriate for turn off required.
No indicator on approach your lane selection dictates----unless you are taking first exit in which case you have your left hand indicator on at the approach.
Any other exit you would only signal left when level with the exit before the exit you intend to take meaning your lane selection on approach is important
Lane selection being nearside lane for first exit off or going straight ahead and off side approach lane for straight ahead and any other turn off or doubling back
I am presuming we are talking about being on a motorbike in this discussion and the only indicator I therefore fell necessary for the complete manoeuvre is your left hand indicator.
As it is a motorbike, traffic approaching towards you has difficulty seeing your right hand indicator whether on or off due to the fact that they are normally side mounted
and not always visible from the left hand side being the line of vision for the approaching traffic.
I am not saying it is wrong to use your right hand indicator I just can't see the benefit,everybody has to go round the same way i.e traffic behind you
and you still have to change it over to left hand for your exit manoeuvre

[ophic]

I am not saying it is wrong to use your right hand indicator I just can't see the benefit,everybody has to go round the same way i.e traffic behind you and you still have to change it over to left hand for your exit manoeuvre
Aye give up. You're not making much sense. How is the traffic behind you supposed to know where you're going if you don't indicate on approach to a roundabout? If you do indicate here, I don't see the point in cancelling it.

[DavieSV]

I think you don't have a leg to stand on unfortunatly :(

The roundabout is basically a dual carriageway that goes in a circle.
If you were in the outside lane on a dual carriageway, you would need to have a gap to exit the carriageway. there was no gap.

Just because the Taxi entered the roundabout on your approach, means nothing.

If it had entered on the next approach it would have been perfectly allright for him to be there doing the exact same thing.

As a few have said on this thread, if the exit is not clear, go round again.
But in doing this, does it make it alright for some one on the last exit, seeing you enter the roundabout, therefore assuming you must be exiting on the last exit, so as you approach he can pull out straight in your path.

I'm sorry but there is nothing to say you must exit the roundabout before doing a complete lap.

[Red Herring]

i did do a lifesaver but he was so close i could not avoid him fully, but i did try to turn away and was almost at a standstill when he hit me


Sounds like you had already started to change lanes before you did the lifesaver. The general idea around looking is doing it before you leap...

[Owenski]

Ophic makes a good point about a driver having to cancel their indicator, either on or on approach to the round about. I was always tought that if your going right at a junction you indicate right, a roundabout is no exception it is afterall just a junction. Anyway if your approaching a junction and intend to turn right then you have your right signal on, and with a round about it will just remain on all the way until you reach the exit prior to your intended one, at which point you switch to a left signal. This indicates your intention to leave the round about.


Right turn users of a roundabout who dont signal right while on the roundabout IMO simply dont understand how to use that style of junction correctly. Not sure why but I dont think enough people see a roundabout as a junction, most roundabouts replaced intersections previously controlled by trafficlights. They were intorduced to both increase traffic flow and reduce collison points at junctions. A duel carridgeway crossing a single carridgeway would have possible 22 collision points. A roundbaout on the same junction give you 4 collision points if correct lane disapline is applied. When people start making mistakes with lane selection then roundabouts can increase in collision points, fortunatly at the worst a round about on this type of junction would have 12 collision points which is still much less than before.

Sorry I'm a highways geek:driving:

[ophic]

I think you don't have a leg to stand on unfortunatly :(

The roundabout is basically a dual carriageway that goes in a circle.
If you were in the outside lane on a dual carriageway, you would need to have a gap to exit the carriageway. there was no gap.
It's interesting to hear different ways things are treated by different people. You'd think that with a single set of rules & guidelines, people wouldn't deviate so much from a single idea.

The point is the taxi driver was in violation of the highway code. It gets tricky because the highway code is a bit vague on whether the OP was also in violation. Side note - the highway code about roundabouts is nothing at all like the highway code about dual carriageways. Totally separate set of guidelines.

I think a lot of the problems occur because the different ways people are taught to drive, by their instructors. My gfs driving instructor, many years ago, informed her that the national speed limit on dual carriageways is 60mph - and since, she has sworn blind that this was the case until proven wrong. For an instructor to make such a basic mistake as that, casts into doubt the whole training structure of the country. It also shows that people don't read the highway code much.

[AndyW]

i did do a lifesaver but he was so close i could not avoid him fully, but i did try to turn away and was almost at a standstill when he hit me

A thought for the future, do the lifesaver _before_ starting to turn. Then you could have continued round without any problems. If you were already in his path when you did the lifesaver, what was the point of it?
The law states you can go round a round about 3 times before committing an offence.

[Owenski]

Ophic I was under the impression a duel carridgeway showing NSL signs is a 60mph, unless there is a central divide in which case it increases to 70mph. Mind you I cant think of a duel carridgeway which doesnt have a central divide so they're all pretty much 70. Is that what you were getting at?

[ophic]

Ophic I was under the impression a duel carridgeway showing NSL signs is a 60mph, unless there is a central divide in which case it increases to 70mph. Mind you I cant think of a duel carridgeway which doesnt have a central divide so they're all pretty much 70. Is that what you were getting at?
Matt, if there's no central reservation, its a single carriageway, regardless of how many lanes it has.
Dual carriageways

A dual carriageway is a road which has a central reservation to separate the carriageways.

[Owenski]

my mistake, wasnt aware of that definition. Although it does make mroe sense now when people talk about a 2 lane duel carridgeway. Dont worry I am the office idiot, your major highways are in the hands of the clever people, Im still stuck on the residential.

[sinbad]

I think you don't have a leg to stand on unfortunatly :(

The roundabout is basically a dual carriageway that goes in a circle.
If you were in the outside lane on a dual carriageway, you would need to have a gap to exit the carriageway. there was no gap.

Just because the Taxi entered the roundabout on your approach, means nothing.

If it had entered on the next approach it would have been perfectly allright for him to be there doing the exact same thing.

As a few have said on this thread, if the exit is not clear, go round again.
But in doing this, does it make it alright for some one on the last exit, seeing you enter the roundabout, therefore assuming you must be exiting on the last exit, so as you approach he can pull out straight in your path.

I'm sorry but there is nothing to say you must exit the roundabout before doing a complete lap.

I'll only ever use the left hand lane in that case, and go round and round in the knowledge that is impossible for me to cause an accident without entering the inside lane first. If I can get alongside someone who's on the inside lane before they reach their exit I'll be quids in. :)

A roundabout is not a dual carriageway. Lane discipline doesn't apply to a roundabout, there is no "fast" or "overtaking lane", and you do not by default use the "slow lane". The lane you use is determined by the location of the exit you wish to take, failure to then take that exit is unpredictable behaviour at best, in this case it's dangerous driving imo.

[ophic]

I'll only ever use the left hand lane in that case, and go round and round in the knowledge that is impossible for me to cause an accident without entering the inside lane first. If I can get alongside someone who's on the inside lane before they reach their exit I'll be quids in. :)

A roundabout is not a dual carriageway. Lane discipline doesn't apply to a roundabout, there is no "fast" or "overtaking lane", and you do not by default use the "slow lane". The lane you use is determined by the location of the exit you wish to take, failure to then take that exit is unpredictable behaviour at best, in this case it's dangerous driving imo.
ok but just to be pedantic, the inside lane on a roundabout is the one furthest from the centre :p

[Red Herring]

The law states you can go round a round about 3 times before committing an offence.

Really...where?

There's no limit on how many times you can go round, but if by continually going around whilst desperately trying to get your knee down you are preventing others from entering then expect some without due care or consideration paperwork to come your way.

[sinbad]

ok but just to be pedantic, the inside lane on a roundabout is the one furthest from the centre :p

Heh, yeah I suppose it is, the inside lane is furthest towards the outside edge of the roundabout.

Those highway code geezers, they so cwazy :)

[Stu]

I'll only ever use the left hand lane in that case, and go round and round in the knowledge that is impossible for me to cause an accident without entering the inside lane first. If I can get alongside someone who's on the inside lane before they reach their exit I'll be quids in. :).
By Jove I think you've almost got it! (assuming you will now call the left lane the inside lane and if you weren't being sarcastic ](*,)).
If I was on a bicycle I would be quite likely to remain on the left in the inside lane, even if i was turning right. And I woudl be very grateful if you didn't knock me down trying to exit the roundabout from the right hand outside lane.


Listen to Red Herrring - he talks sense.

[Kylie]

I'm afraid the law is only half on your side here, insurers are likely to quote you this appeal court judgement for practically the same scenario, which resulted in a 50/50 ruling.
Case: grace v tanner ( citator)
G appealed against the dismissal of her claim in negligence against t arising from a collision on a roundabout between her motorcycle and Ts vehicle. Both G and T had been proceeding south along the A23, which was a dual carriageway. T had been proceeding in the left hand lane around the roundabout. However, she noticed the exit for the A23 too late and therefore carried on in the left hand lane around the roundabout. G had been travelling in the right hand lane around the roundabout. She attempted to take the exit for the A23, assuming that T was going to do likewise, and the collision occurred. G accepted that she was negligent, but argued that T had been equally so.

Held, allowing the appeal, that T had not been negligent in missing her turning, she had been negligent in failing to realise that there might be someone in the outside lane who wanted to take the A23 exit. In the circumstances, a division of responsibility of 50/50 would be appropriate.

Court: (CA) Court of Appeal
Judge: Schiemann, L.J.; Judge, L.J.
Judgment date: February 27, 2003
Reported: [2003] EWCA Civ 354
Counsel: For G: S Walsh. For T: P Jones
Solicitors: For G: Nelson Nichols, For T: Healeys

I was in a very similar situation, cept my car driving twunt was doing a u turn round the outside:
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=82982

[sinbad]

By Jove I think you've almost got it! (assuming you will now call the left lane the inside lane and if you weren't being sarcastic ](*,)).
If I was on a bicycle I would be quite likely to remain on the left in the inside lane, even if i was turning right. And I woudl be very grateful if you didn't knock me down trying to exit the roundabout from the right hand outside lane.


Listen to Red Herrring - he talks sense.

Pretty sure I never said you shouldn't bother checking your exit is clear before taking it, but the scenario you outline is different. If 2 cars are side-by-side from entry to "proper" exit, and are probably at most 5 feet apart, and indicators invisible to one another, do you (as the driver on the right) just continue around the roundabout on the off chance that that driver on the left is an idiot? No. You know what that driver should do, and you know that you will be okay, this is how much of the road system works, by being predictable.

Start effing about by only using the outside lane regardless of intended exit and who are you going to blame when you continue to the right and hit someone's rear left quarter? "It is not my responsibility to avoid a collision, I am simply continuing along in my chosen lane, you have chopped across me sir". Give me a break.

[Red Herring]

Listen to Red Herrring - he talks sense.

Aw...thanks Stu, you say the nicest things. If only it were true. Mostly I can quote the law which often has nothing to do with sense, but I guess I can sometimes add a practical slant to it.

I think the problem with this thread is that everybody is looking for a black and white answer, a right and wrong. Unfortunately there isn't one. The road Traffic Act doesn't tell you how to drive around a roundabout, only that you should drive with due care and attention. The Highway code gives lots of advice, but is often open to interpretation. For example when giving advice about roundabouts it says, "When taking any intermediate exit - select the appropriate lane on approach... Stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout". Now if you read this literally it could be saying for turning right enter in the right hand lane, and then stay in the right hand lane until you turn left to go off the roundabout... which is what this thread is all about. If however you did this regardless it would obviously bring you into conflict with vehicles to your left, who may also be following the advice given in the Highway code if they had entered on a junction after you and intended to take and are taking an intermediate exit.

The Highway code also gives the following advice.

In all cases watch out for...

Traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit.

Cyclists and horse riders (god forbid) who may stay in the left hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout...

I think the appeal case law quoted earlier sums it all up very nicely but if you want the practical coppering approach that you are most likely to get from the police if they are called to sort out your mess then be aware that:

General opinion is that the onus is on the vehicle in the right hand lane to stay out of the way of the vehicle in the left hand lane, especially if the vehicle in the right hand lane entered the roundabout after the other vehicle, was going faster, and therefore in effect "overtaking". The exception to this may be if the left hand lane is clearly marked for vehicles to take the next exit and the driver doesn't. The police know that both drivers will think they were in the right, they won't be interested in what you thought the other driver was going to do (it's fairly obvious) and unless someones been killed or seriously injured they are not going to bother taking everybodys details and recording the various versions of what may or may not have happened. It was almost certainly one of your faults for changing lanes when you shouldn't, but it was also most definitely the other drivers fault for not anticipating them doing it. **** happens, move on and be wiser next time.

[AndyW]

Really...where?

There's no limit on how many times you can go round, but if by continually going around whilst desperately trying to get your knee down you are preventing others from entering then expect some without due care or consideration paperwork to come your way.

I was told this on both my CBT and IAM course that there is a legal limit. Can't find the actual legislation, but that is no surprise as IANAL, and not all the ammendments are available online.

[Red Herring]

There's a lot of folklore around (no pun intended) such things. It's often not what you do, but how you do it and the potential consequences of doing it. If you were to find a quiet roundabout in the middle of nowhere you could keep going round until you ran out of petrol, tyres, or got dizzy and fell off as far as the law is concerned. If however by doing so you impede, obstruct, alarm, disturb or otherwise impact on anybody else, be they another road user, a nearby resident, or possibly even the local wildlife, then somewhere there will be a piece of legislation that the police could pull out, dust off, and apply to what you are doing. The police (generally) don't go out looking to use up their little box of powers, they go out to solve problems and to ensure that society can sort of get on with itself. If you're not a problem, you're not of interest. Of course there are exceptions to this, unfortunately some of them end up on Traffic...

[carternd]

Aah, I have brainache. Sorry to hear your situation, It COULD happen to anyone (no matter how god-like you are). Someone once told me, can't remember who, may have been a DAS instructor - Assume all drivers are complete idiots until they prove otherwise.

[richiekuk]

Aah, I have brainache. Sorry to hear your situation, It COULD happen to anyone (no matter how god-like you are). Someone once told me, can't remember who, may have been a DAS instructor - Assume all drivers are complete idiots until they prove otherwise.

This is a very wise piece of advice.

My experience of taxi drivers is that they think they are the best drivers (as they do it for a living). However not every teacher is good at teaching, not every engineer is good at engineering etc etc.

At best taxi drivers are lazy (can't be bothered to indicate), and so on.

I believe you are in the right and the taxi driver is in the wrong. Although there is no specific legislation regarding how to navigate a roundabout. There are enough of them about for general rules to apply. A roundabout on a dual carraigeway where there are 4 exits (one being a u turn), is a simple one to grasp. Both lanes can carry straight on (in their respective lanes). Left lane can also turn left, right lane can also turn right.

If the guy in the left lane wants to turn right, and hasn't been able to change lanes due to traffic not allowing him to do so, surely he should indicate right, and proceed with caution, only changing lanes when clear, and if there is no instance when its clear, he should go straight on in the left lane and wait for a suitable place to turn around, instead of endangering the life of other road users with his stupidity.

I have entered roundabouts in the left lane, realising I needed to go right, and applying these simple guidelines, have sometimes been able to go right (due to someone letting me in, or there being no traffic around me). Other times I have realised I can't change lanes, and carried straight on in the left lane so as not to be a C*!&T.

Obviously on a motorbike, you need to be alot more carefull, because what is an inconvenience in a car can mean your life on a bike.
I, for one, will always assume the guy in the left lane is gonna cut me up when on my bike, this has saved me when a big van decided to do just that on a roundabout on the a46 (lincoln). I carried on round the roundabout followed him and gave him a piece of my mind. he actually apologised, and said he didn't see me.

Lesson Learned!

Sorry for preaching, but since i've moved to Lincolnshire, you cannot take common sense for granted.

[keith_d]

I heard it phrased differently....

Car drivers come in two flavours, those that haven't seen you and those that are trying to kill you.

[Stu]

If the guy in the left lane wants to turn right, and hasn't been able to change lanes due to traffic not allowing him to do so, surely he should indicate right, and proceed with caution, only changing lanes when clear, and if there is no instance when its clear, he should go straight on in the left lane and wait for a suitable place to turn around, instead of endangering the life of other road users with his stupidity.
I'm sorry for the OP but this just shows what a stupid piece of advice it is. you cannot expect someone to take an exit that they don't want. Surely it is much easier for all concerned for the person in the right lane to continue round the roundabout and take the exit next time if there is someone blocking their exit.

[sinbad]

I'm sorry for the OP but this just shows what a stupid piece of advice it is. you cannot expect someone to take an exit that they don't want. Surely it is much easier for all concerned for the person in the right lane to continue round the roundabout and take the exit next time if there is someone blocking their exit.

Sure you can expect them to do that. That's what 99.99% of people in that lane will do. They wouldn't make a random lane switch having left the roundabout, so why be so unpredictable whilst actually on it? Are you actually suggesting that no two cars should ever be side by side on a roundabout? Someone needs to redesign these things.

If in doubt, use the right hand lane, not the left. At least then you can continue safely round past your exit.

[Stu]

Sure you can expect them to do that. That's what 99.99% of people in that lane will do.:shock: 99.99% of people will drive 10 miles in the wrong direction because someone on their right hand side at the roundabout wanted to leave at an exit that you didn't want? - well not me. They wouldn't make a random lane switch having left the roundabout,don't understand you so why be so unpredictable whilst actually on it?don't understand you Are you actually suggesting that no two cars should ever be side by side on a roundabout? not at all - I think you should leave the roundabout from the left lane and if you can't get into the left lane, be prepared to go around againSomeone needs to redesign these things.

If in doubt, use the right hand lane, not the left. At least then you can continue safely round past your exit.

[sinbad]

:shock: 99.99% of people will drive 10 miles in the wrong direction because someone on their right hand side at the roundabout wanted to leave at an exit that you didn't want? - well not me.don't understand youdon't understand younot at all - I think you should leave the roundabout from the left lane and if you can't get into the left lane, be prepared to go around again

You said that they should just drive round the roundabout in the left hand lane when it was suggested that: they should take great care if they wished to do that, and not do it if it's not safe, just take the exit they're lined up for. 99.99% of people wouldn't be in the wrong lane in the first place (wrong lane is totally the correct term here), but they'd be sensible enough to know it, and not just carry on round regardless!

You don't understand the difference between doing something that nobody expects and doing what everyone else expects you to do? You don't see that following the flow of traffic is safe, and not following it is not? You wouldn't park on a roundabout to read a map would you? But hey, if there's no double yellows why should we expect someone to take a wrong exit and drive 10 miles (haha).

Many roundabouts have 2 exit lanes. This must be the part you would have redesigned since one of them is apparently redundant if you have to be in the left hand lane on a roundabout to exit it safely.

[richiekuk]

Surely it is much easier for all concerned for the person in the right lane to continue round the roundabout and take the exit next time if there is someone blocking their exit.

Surely its better for the person in the wrong (ie, the **** in the left lane wanting to go right) to be put out by having to take the wrong exit. Rather than the innocent party who simply wants to carry straight on when they are being sensible and safe, to have to react to the idiot and change their plans at the last second.

Also the idiot will undoubtably carry on round without indicating his or her intentions so how is the sensible person supposed to know whats happening untill they have a car in their side!

[ophic]

Surely its better for the person in the wrong (ie, the **** in the left lane wanting to go right) to be put out by having to take the wrong exit. Rather than the innocent party who simply wants to carry straight on when they are being sensible and safe, to have to react to the idiot and change their plans at the last second.

Also the idiot will undoubtably carry on round without indicating his or her intentions so how is the sensible person supposed to know whats happening untill they have a car in their side!
Well you've got an idiot in the wrong lane who probably doesn't give a flying one or they'd be taking more care, and a (hopefully) observant driver in the right lane. Do you think the guy in the wrong lane will suddenly have a revelation about his driving style and how it affects others? I think not.

Ophic's idiot rule no. 1: Idiots don't budge. Avoid them.

[richiekuk]

Ophic's idiot rule no. 1: Idiots don't budge. Avoid them.

Ha ha, I agree, totally!

[Red Herring]

....Are you actually suggesting that no two cars should ever be side by side on a roundabout? .....

Actually that's not bad advice. Certainly if you're on a bike you always want to avoid being alongside a car. Not only will you be in the drivers blind spot but you're leaving yourself very few options should they move over on you. Better to be on their quarter, that way if they do cut across you have the option to pass behind them, or of course just tighten your line.

[ophic]

Actually that's not bad advice. Certainly if you're on a bike you always want to avoid being alongside a car. Not only will you be in the drivers blind spot but you're leaving yourself very few options should they move over on you. Better to be on their quarter, that way if they do cut across you have the option to pass behind them, or of course just tighten your line.
I agree. If I'm ever alongside a car while riding or driving, alarm bells sound. Especially if i'm not moving away from the situation - ie passing or he's passing me.