View Full Version : Juddering?
There's probably an easy answer to this but on cornering at speed my bike tends to "judder" and feels like sitting on a washing machine at slow cycle, err, I imagine :rolleyes:. ( never having sat on a washing machine that is, of course, apart from that time I was trying out a thing I had read about and how it can lenghten and make more intense the orgahm gonna shut up now, sorry )
Stock springs and shock?
That'll probably be why.
Err so the standard stuff isn't any good? Not a racer or even that rapid to be honest but its just a recent thing and I thought maybe something had gone wrong.
fizzwheel
01-11-09, 09:52 PM
Err so the standard stuff isn't any good?
Its works just fine.
OK need to know a little more about your bike / the juddering.
What sort of SV is it ? How many miles on it, have you modified it in anyway.
Also does the juddering occur at a set speed, does it happen when you are accelerating or does it happen when you are braking ?
The more info you can give us the easier its going to be to diagnose your problem...
Its a 2001 curvy, standard apart from denser front fork oil and it judders actually on the corner so I suppose its under acceleration. Don't want to sound too lame but it's just a bit unnerving.
Dave20046
01-11-09, 10:07 PM
Its a 2001 curvy, standard apart from denser front fork oil and it judders actually on the corner so I suppose its under acceleration. Don't want to sound too lame but it's just a bit unnerving.
Has it started happening since you swapped the fork oil?
No I had swapped the fork oil months ago, I have noticed the rear brakes are pretty thin but they still passed the MOT and haven't gone down much since then.
Is it a front end or rear-end judder? Does it feel like either tyre is starting to lose grip? What tyres are you running and what condition are they in? How's your tyre pressure?
sunshine
01-11-09, 10:40 PM
does it only judder on the left handers, right handers or both?
if its only one or the other how does it effect on the otherside?
fizzwheel
01-11-09, 10:41 PM
Does it judder when you are riding in a straight line or just on the exit of corners ?
The tyres and pressures are fine, it seems to happen to either left or right hand corners but thinking about it it may be a bit worse on the right. It feels still planted enough but makes me back off a bit on the revs and as you'd guess this makes some tightening corners a little more exciting.
What tyres do you have? How far are you leaning the bike? Do you hang off the bike?
The tyres are bridgestone battlax bt020 and it usually happens on faster bends so I guess I would be leaning the bike over primarily but kissing the mirrors as well.
Alpinestarhero
02-11-09, 10:55 AM
I'd go with a wheel bearing check aswell - how many miles on the bike? You may need to check the head-race bearings aswell. Is there any side-to-side play in the swingarm?
There's about 16000 miles on the clock and the rear bearing was done for the MOT, it was done by me so I think I may need to have another wiggle. Does the rear shock need greasing with any regularity cos I've never done it and don't know how.
Alpinestarhero
02-11-09, 11:20 AM
There's about 16000 miles on the clock and the rear bearing was done for the MOT, it was done by me so I think I may need to have another wiggle. Does the rear shock need greasing with any regularity cos I've never done it and don't know how.
Technically, I suppose you should take the shock out once a year and grease all the bearings. In practice, many people never do it. My bike is over 40,000 miles and the linkage bearings are fine, but they need greasing. It is worth inspecting
linkages should be stripped every year and regreased....bear in mind, most dont see any grease from new lol...it does make a massive diff once there done..just done all mine and thats on a 6000 mile bike;)....as said check front wheel bearings, get that front wheel int air and have a good check
Thinking about the front wheel, I've done the front brake pads and since then I've had to sort of pump a few times before I leave the garage, there is pressure there but not quite enough, with this is mind, is there a possibility that the front brake mind be binding a little? just guessing before I approach the bike again.
Spiderman
02-11-09, 12:47 PM
The more info you can give us the easier its going to be to diagnose your problem...
Plenty of info if you read the right bits mate ;)
( never having sat on a washing machine that is, of course, apart from that time I was trying out a thing I had read about and how it can lenghten and make more intense the orgahm gonna shut up now, sorry )
My advice?
get a better man in your life ;)
Ermmm, suspension makes your bike going boingy boingy, thats about all i know abut that. hth.
Mine felt like this before I change my knackered front tyre ...
Its like a new bike now !!
After another looksee and not seeing anything I took it out again and it seems to happen at speeds of 60+, didn't think it was that fast but the speedo doesn't lie, well, maybe exagerate a bit, I was going to see if accelerating out of it would help but realised that would be stupid being on a corner and that.
Alpinestarhero
02-11-09, 03:29 PM
are the wheels correctly balanced?
And rear wheel aligned properly?
sunshine
02-11-09, 04:47 PM
try these
wheel balance,
wheel allinement,
bearings,
then try a new front tyre the bt020's caused me a lot of trouble.
has it been in a crash?
It has been in a crash but I don't know how bad, some of the panels are from a diferent bike. Thanks for the checklist I'll run through them all and see if I can find anything.
sunshine
02-11-09, 06:28 PM
if it judders on one corner then on the other it feels slippery then it was a bad crash and I believe thats the rear and front wheel are out of alignment.
Swing arm ok?
or forks ok?
Yeah I think they are or certainly hope so, would it pass an MOT if there was an alignment problem, other than the rear wheel in the swingarm? I take it I need 2 planks of wood or something to check the back wheel against the front wheel?
Spiderman
02-11-09, 06:50 PM
Yeah I think they are or certainly hope so, would it pass an MOT if there was an alignment problem, other than the rear wheel in the swingarm? I take it I need 2 planks of wood or something to check the back wheel against the front wheel?
String will do but wood is easier.
sunshine
02-11-09, 06:51 PM
did they test ride it after the MOT? you can check it that way or wait for someone else to come and check if im right.
Checked the front wheel, rear wheel and alignment and it all seems fine. Trying to narrow it down and all I can think of is that I have recently taken to leaning off the bike more but I thought this wouldn't have any bearing because the bike stays more upright as I lean over or have I got that wrong? Trying to develope my riding style to suit the upcoming wet conditions.
Red Herring
02-11-09, 11:15 PM
Sookie, does the juddering vary if you ease on or off the throttle, ie: is it engine/transmission related or does it stay constant for a given speed, in which case it may be more of a chassis problem (this isn't definitive, just a pointer).
I seem to think its more speed rather than rev related cos whether in 3rd or 4th the judder was the same. The judder is sort of err slow? not a violent shaking by any means-leaning against a slow washing machine is about the best description I can think of.
Red Herring
03-11-09, 12:20 PM
Could the rear tyre be out of true, as in not seated on the bead properly? Pull the bike up on the side stand and spin the rear wheel whilst looking at the gap between the edge of the tyre and the swingarm, see if it varies.
Had a long look and think about it and if my fears prove correct then ahma muppet :confused:...would the wreckless application of chain lube landing on the tyre causing a little "step out" feel like a judder?
sunshine
03-11-09, 02:21 PM
It would feel like the rear is about to slip away on every left hander.
philbut
03-11-09, 03:38 PM
Well if it aint oil on the tyre (and you really would have needed to cover the f*cker for it to do it noticably over an extended period of time) I'd go with knackered wheel bearings or head bearings. first instinct would be head bearings TBH. Get the front end in the air and give the bottom of the forks a good tug - any movement = head bearing needs tightening or renewing? Then rotate bars from side to side - any notches or roughness = head bearing needs renewing? if not, spin the wheel (it can help to take the calipers off but not vital) and feel for any play or roughness. You can sometimes feel this through the bars. If so, you have a dud front wheel bearings.
Red Herring
03-11-09, 03:44 PM
Had a long look and think about it and if my fears prove correct then ahma muppet :confused:...would the wreckless application of chain lube landing on the tyre causing a little "step out" feel like a judder?
You're not a muppet Sookie, lube all over the rear tyre would only last for a few corners, and if you survived them it won't be there now. Did you get a chance to check the rear tyre? Talking of obvious things you have checked the pressures haven't you?
I seem to think its more speed rather than rev related cos whether in 3rd or 4th the judder was the same. The judder is sort of err slow? not a violent shaking by any means-leaning against a slow washing machine is about the best description I can think of.
Perhaps too higher gear and not enough revs. engine slogging a bit causing vibes right thru the bike....
yorkie_chris
03-11-09, 06:08 PM
Technically, I suppose you should take the shock out once a year and grease all the bearings. In practice, many people never do it. My bike is over 40,000 miles and the linkage bearings are fine, but they need greasing. It is worth inspecting
How do you know until you take them out and have a look? :smt119
I've checked the tyre and it seems to be sitting fine. On cornering I tend to have the revs sitting around 5500 6000 so I can increase the power as soon as I need it, bearingn mind I'm still a novice so any comments appreciated. Will get the bike in the air and give the front end a wiggle and see if its snaggy or loose. Thanks for the assistance all.
Dave20046
04-11-09, 05:25 PM
I've checked the tyre and it seems to be sitting fine. On cornering I tend to have the revs sitting around 5500 6000 so I can increase the power as soon as I need it, bearingn mind I'm still a novice so any comments appreciated. Will get the bike in the air and give the front end a wiggle and see if its snaggy or loose. Thanks for the assistance all.
Those rev's don't sound wrong.
Yep definitely check the bearings.
fatneck
04-11-09, 06:57 PM
I judder once a month usually:
http://www.judder.org/
Ahem.
Went out with my brother yesterday who has been riding a long long time, apparently I accelerate too hard? coming out of corners, he said "to put it simply it I wasn't banked over the front wheel would be lifting"...? And he also dropped or lifted the rear suspension adjustable thing, ahem, I was drifting away by then bored with the lecture, cos it was set for someone larger. Hey ho!
yorkie_chris
05-11-09, 09:23 AM
Accelerate too hard? What the fudgs that?
Anyway boswallox, he needs to go and look at his dynamics textbook again. It takes almost the same force to lift front wheel banked over as it does upright.
Yeah thats what I thought, think he was just clutching at straws trying to find an explanation. Gonna see how it rides since his adjusting? the rear shock.
yorkie_chris
05-11-09, 09:33 AM
If you had too much preload on it could be skipping over bumps.
Best bet is to let someone more experienced have a go. Maybe Northwind could take a look?
Dave20046
05-11-09, 11:26 AM
If you accelerate too hard out a corner your back end slides (or atleast mine does), it happens quick though not a slow juddering feeling.
yorkie_chris
05-11-09, 11:28 AM
If it was skipping out as the shock was topping out? Maybe it would slide or maybe skip across each ripple in the road?
Then again I don't think the stock shock has enough spring stiffness to do that unless you're less than about 9 stone!
Red Herring
06-11-09, 11:12 AM
It definitely won't be the back stepping out, unless you're related to Mick Doohan and you have somehow swopped the SV for something with a bit of power...
You're not running over the cats eyes are you...might explain why it happens more on left handers than right...
Sorry being serious again, how tight is the chain? Could it be to tight (or just have a tight spot) and as the back squats under acceleration that's transmitting itself as a judder?
Well I don't know the answer but the judder has gone. The only thing I can think could have been causing this is a combination of old hard grease and a re-tightening of all the nuts and bolts. I'm guessing that maybe I need to check things more carefully in future because of the amount of tightening that I had to do. I will now approach things with haynes manual and torque wrench readily available. Don't wanna think of the alternative.
Thanks all for the advise.
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