Why do you not ride a twin?

[Mark_h]

Doubtless this will get shouted down but........

A few years ago when I'd "out grown" my SV650 I test rode loads of stuff. Really wanted a Firestorm but could not find one at the right price so ended up with a SV1000. At the time I test rode VFR, CBR600RRR, Hornet, CB1300 (Honda great at test rides), Speed Triple and a few others but each time I got back onto my underpowered, cheaply suspended, poorly braked little SV and felt it was just about right for me.

Now I'm two years into my SV1000 and have recently swapped bikes with mates while out and about more recently a k8 blade and an old (96) Ninja. The blade was bonkers. It pretty much just changed location. HUGE power, amazing handling, brakes, looks etc but only seemed to make sense when riding it like you were being chased by machine gun wielding baddies. The rest of the time you were completely under using it and it was so effortless it felt more like you were operating it than riding it.

The Ninja was beautifully smooth but until you got to about 8k it was like you were in 5th with the handbrake on. Once again when you gave it the beans it woke up but that's only a place you're going to be occasionally.

Then I get back onto my thou. Sounds great, pulls from about 4k-11k which means you can access loads of power from pretty much any gear. It's not got the massive punch at high revs you get with a meaty IL4 but seems to have more power in the zone you're riding in 90%+ of the time. Also with it's agricultural engineering you definitely feel like you are riding a motorbike rather than playing a computer game.

So given many of the forum members no longer have a SV I was wondering why you've gone down the IL4 route.
- Do you feel you are in it's sweet-spot often enough to make it worthwhile?
- Do you crave the silky smooth power delivery?
- Do you go to a few track days?
- Are you often chased by machine gun wielding baddies?
- Did you just fancy a change?
- Will your next one be another IL4 ?
- Did you try a bigger twin before going down the IL4 route?

Obviously there are many more IL4 options out there than V-twins so easier and cheaper to go down that route. I may be looking to upgrade next year and may be forced down the blade/r1/gsxr route so wanted to know what I was missing out on in day-to-day riding.

Do not read this as me slating IL4s as I know they are loved by many but I just don't get it myself so want the view of the converted as to what I'm missing.

Cheers,
Mark

[DanAbnormal]

Because they are crap.

[kwak zzr]

i love twins but after many years on one Ive now had a change, i ain't regretting it either :)

[DanAbnormal]

Right, I have time for a more sensible answer now.

I didn't like the lumpiness that the SV gave when doing slow traffic work and also it felt like it ran out of puff after about 90. Plus the suspension/braker were terrible.

I love my IL4 as it's smooth and a little peaky and I love the screaming noise from the engine. After 7k it goes a bit bonkers which is my lkind of riding style.

At the end of the day it's personal choice though, there could be 100 reasons that a IL4 or twin maybe better but to each their own and all that. I doubt I would go back to a twin unless I could get a Tuono or something a bit hooligan like but I will most like stay with IL4 as I just prefer the power delivery and noise.

[simesb]

Nope, I don't miss the low speed lumpiness either. As for smoothness, the Kwak is like a screaming turbine from 8-16.5k, but you can filter through town or wring its neck like a hooligan depending on mood - quite tractable at low revs really.

I guess I miss the twin noise a little, and I would go back to a twin on the right bike; but I enjoy EVERYTHING more on the kwak; I don;t think the SV did anything better.

[ArtyLady]

I went from twin to IL4 - hated it - and back to twin - as you say in your OP it feels like a real bike and fortunately for me I'm not a speed freak :smt023

[Mark_h]

...... I doubt I would go back to a twin unless I could get a Tuono or something a bit hooligan like .........


Surely we're not seeing a hooligan Dan revival!

When I was last looking I took Grant's Tuono out for a blat. It was totally bonkers. He had a Power commander on it but I'm not sure it was set up correctly as the throttle had been pretty much replaced by a switch!

It felt a bit like you were sitting on it rather than in it but if you like the idea of a super quick bike that rides like a trail bike then it's a right laugh.

If you don't like low-speed vibes, suggest you look elsewhere!

Took out a 1098r and an ST3 they were fun but far too pricy for a cheapskate like me.

[Owenski]

Good thread, Dito what OP said.

[DanAbnormal]

That's the thing Mark, it would have to be the right bike. I sat on a Tuono but it felt so high I'd need stepladder to get on! It has to tick a lot of boxes for me to enjoy it and it's why I love my current bike so much, it ticks all of those boxes. It does lack top end but makes up for it with great handling, brakes and general hooliganism. :p

Never say never but I'm still waiting for a bike to beat what I already have.

[Scoobs]

Lack of options.

There aren't many supersport bikes (my current preferred style of bike) other than Aprilia and Ducati. Aprilia doesn't appeal and Ducati is not affordable for me.

However, saying that Superduke is quite high on the list as a next bike.

[kwak zzr]

i feel safer on the gixer too because it handles so well, it corners so much better than me LOL, sometimes i think the bike actually gets me out of trouble with ease where as id be in the hedge again on the sv.

[maviczap]

No I love my Sv, I've always loved v twins, even my CX500 :smt055 & my Guzzi Spada :D

But I've had plenty of IL4's and even a Beemer (yuk)

But I still keep coming back to them. It's the off beat exhaust noise that I seem to enjoy.

I rode a Hornet not so long ago and it was like riding a sewing machine, no soul.

The Sv ain't perfect, but it'll do, it's fast enough for me at my time of life. I can't afford a Ducati or an Aprillia - one day

[zsv650]

four's are for wimp's.

[Warthog]

Sound andtorque is what I love about twins. I wouldn't mind anything else though!

[skeetly]

Triples. Simples. ;)

[G]

but seems to have more power in the zone you're riding in 90%+ of the time.



They may have more power than the zone you're riding in but everyone has a different riding style, and everyone enjoys a different type of riding.



So given many of the forum members no longer have a SV I was wondering why you've gone down the IL4 route.
- Do you feel you are in it's sweet-spot often enough to make it worthwhile? Yes, All the time
- Do you crave the silky smooth power delivery? Not really
- Do you go to a few track days? Yes
- Are you often chased by machine gun wielding baddies? It has been known
- Did you just fancy a change?
- Will your next one be another IL4? No idea, my 600rr will probably be unsellable by the time I have finished, mileage etc so probably both 600rr for trackdays and fancy a older ducati for the road. Miles off though.
- Did you try a bigger twin before going down the IL4 route? No because no manufacturer really offered what I was after, reliable, affordable, fast, cheap to maintain and fix

[rictus01]

Hmmmmmm, interesting, currently having a single (CCM 404ds), V twin (KTM superduke), Triple (Triumph S3) and a IL4 (Triumph S4), I'm kind of spoilt for choice, of all the configurations; I've found the big triple to be the best, to the point I've had 7 over the years, it does the big twin thing very well, ride the torque and all that, but unlike the twins it's still able to give a top end rush like the fours, it's not perfect, but as close as I've found, however as it's housed in a fairly heavy bike it's now beyond my abilities to ride much.

Enter the KTM Superduke, this is what I'd call one of the new generation of big V twins, fairly short stroke, and revs up & down quickly; giving the engine a "light" feel you don't normally get on the big engines, I've compared between an SV1000N (04)/ ApriliaTUONO (08)/ Honda SP1 (03) and the Superduke(08), all do the big "lumps" of power and torque thing very well, but even the SP1 feels dated and slightly heavy in comparison to the superduke,so time has evolved the big V into a more "nimble" feeling package and the gap is closing on my ideal (the triple lump)to an extent.

Cheers Mark.

[simesb]

Sound andtorque is what I love about twins. I wouldn't mind anything else though!

SV has less peak torque than a number of IL4s, including the Kwak.

[Warthog]

SV has less peak torque than a number of IL4s, including the Kwak.

Low down torque :-P

[Mark_h]

Low down torque :-P

Just dug out my dynojet read-out. Not sure what a modern bike chucks out but mine measured 60 lb/ft at 4000rpm peaking at 67.4 over a flatish hump between 6000-9000.

Power basically dead straight from 3k (35hp) - 9k(112) where it then flattens out a bit.

We all know power delivery varies between engine configurations and different bikes and serves a very different purpose but my more relaxed riding (old bloke) style seems to suit the bucket of torque that a big twin delivers.

Didn't really want this to turn into a "mine's better than yours" thread but was more interested in why folks went for what they went for and weather they regretted it or feel IL4 is the way to go.

I must admit I was well taken with the speed triple but only when giving it some. Test ride 1 following dealer, not impressed. Test ride 2 on mate's bike from Petersfield to Fleet (decent roads) well impressed apart from a total inability to see anything behind you.

Glad this has stayed fairly friendly so-far and a good exchange of views. Amazing how far afield the TVSF readership seems to extend.

[eviltwin]

Glad this has stayed fairly friendly so-far and a good exchange of views. Amazing how far afield the TVSF patch seems to extend. may be something to do with the bike related content found missing in some other local regions but that's another thread entirely ;)

"Trolling.

If you want to make a post to wind up or get a rise out of other forum members. Remember its not big and its not clever. If this is your aim then we suggest that sv650.org isn’t for you."

Ho ho. Well done, as usual.

FWIW, I love the grin my VTR gives me every time I get on it - yes, it looks dated and dull but I enjoy the low down power and NOISE of the storm. However, every time I get on the Z1000 I love the way I can ride totally smoothly but then feel like a right hooligandan for a few thousand revs.

[skeetly]

JAmazing how far afield the TVSF patch seems to extend.

WTF are TVSF :D

I had to have a look to see what you meant; I only use the 'new posts' button tbh :)

[speedplay]

My tuppence worth:-



So given many of the forum members no longer have a SV I was wondering why you've gone down the IL4 route.

- Do you feel you are in it's sweet-spot often enough to make it worthwhile? oh yes :)
- Do you crave the silky smooth power delivery? oh yes again (plus less engine braking) :)
- Did you just fancy a change?I wanted to try an IL4 and am hooked
- Will your next one be another IL4 ?Strong chance, but am also looking at an MV...
- Did you try a bigger twin before going down the IL4 route? yes

[fizzwheel]

- Did you just fancy a change?

Basically yes. My SV started to bore me. It also started to turn into a money pit. I wanted something with more power, that had better brakes and chassis.

I wanted a change, a different riding experience...


Do not read this as me slating IL4s as I know they are loved by many but I just don't get it myself so want the view of the converted as to what I'm missing.

its not something you can be converted to. You either get the IL4 thing or you dont. They do need riding in a different way to a twin. If you go litre IL4 you'll get all the torque and mid range you want. Theres also something satisfying about riding the smaller IL4's properly. Right gear, right RPM to ge the best from the bike. I like my 750 because it sits in between those two styles of riding it'll do either, its definately not boring. Yes I am under using it most of the time, but that really doesnt bother me. I dont need to feel like I'm on the rev limiter in every gear to feel like I'm having fun.

If you are thinking of changing I'd say go for it. But approach it with an open mind and make sure you test ride the IL4's from each manufacturer. The Blade has got a reputation from what I have read in the bike mags for being a bit like you describe...

Will my next bike be an IL4, probably not. But not because theres anything wrong with what I have, I just fancy a change again...

[Mark_h]

[B]"
... I love the grin my VTR gives me every time I get on it - yes, it looks dated and dull but I enjoy the low down power and NOISE of the storm. However, every time I get on the Z1000 I love the way I can ride totally smoothly but then feel like a right hooligandan for a few thousand revs.

So if the boss decided you had to get rid of one of them which would you keep?
The Zed with oomf, technology and smoothness or the VTR with character and agricultural charm?

[philbut]

i love the kick in the pants at about 8k rpm. i finds that when I ride twins now I end up hitting the limiter every gear looking for that kick. So, yeah I guess I do spend a lot of time in that zone and thus enjoy an IL4. I also like the fact they (ZZR600 and ZX7R) are complete pussycats at ablow say 6k rpm. It makes them so docile in traffic and in the wet. Yes, I can manage a twin, but I just prefer not haviong to think so much about being smooth. The ony time I do miss a twin is when I'm filtering in London and want something with instant GO to nip into those tight gaps without having to down shift.

I also own a twin (well a deauville, it is sort of a bike, if you ignore the shocking lack of power) and it just does't get me excited at all, not just because it's slow but BECAUSE of the smooth talk curve.

[Warthog]

talk curve.

:lol:

[Sid Squid]

Why do you not ride a twin?I do, sometimes. It's a naked SV1000, the alternative is my ZX6-R.

but each time I got back onto my underpowered, cheaply suspended, poorly braked little SV and felt it was just about right for me.
Perhaps it's just what you like - maybe an SV is the right one for you.

until you got to about 8k it was like you were in 5th with the handbrake on. Once again when you gave it the beans it woke up but that's only a place you're going to be occasionally.
I don't think is fair at all - it's just not fair to say that fours have no bottom end or midrange.

Do you feel you are in it's sweet-spot often enough to make it worthwhile? Yes, usually I am, it's not necessary to rev it madly to get all that's needed from it.
- Do you crave the silky smooth power delivery? I've got a Kwak four - thus smooth isn't the best way of describing it, Kwaks have a nice raw edge to the way they feel.
- Do you go to a few track days? It's been known.
- Are you often chased by machine gun wielding baddies? Not recently.
- Will your next one be another IL4 ? I know which bike I want next and it's a four.
- Did you try a bigger twin before going down the IL4 route?
That last one I feel well placed to answer as I've been back and forth between fours and twins, (and others), I've owned lots of bikes of differing engine configurations and I really can't say that any one is better than another, they're just different.

Do not read this as me slating IL4s as I know they are loved by many but I just don't get it myself so want the view of the converted as to what I'm missing.
I don't think you're missing anything exactly*, if twins are the way you like it - then twins should be what you own.

*Except good fuel consumption, twins can be terrible in that respect.

[ogden]

Now I'm two years into my SV1000 and have recently swapped bikes with mates while out and about more recently a k8 blade and an old (96) Ninja.

The Ninja was beautifully smooth but until you got to about 8k it was like you were in 5th with the handbrake on. Once again when you gave it the beans it woke up but that's only a place you're going to be occasionally.


More than one bike had 'Ninja' stickers on it in 1996. From the description above, should I assume you mean a ZX6R? I rode a '99 GSXR600 SRAD years back and found it much the same - gutless at the bottom end, livened up a bit at the top. You say the top end isn't a place you're going to be very often on that kind of bike. I say that's exactly where you're going to be, or else you're riding it completely wrong.

My "other bike" is a twin. It also makes zero (and I mean zero) usable power below 8k and only gets lively at 10. And it's all over by 11 and a half. So where does the needle live when I'm riding it? Between 10k and 11500, where it belongs.



So given many of the forum members no longer have a SV I was wondering why you've gone down the IL4 route.
- Do you feel you are in it's sweet-spot often enough to make it worthwhile?

My IL4 has a sweet spot from 3k to 10k and a downright scary spot from 10k to the redline. I'm in the former often enough to make it worthwhile and the latter any time I want to remind myself why I have a litre bike.

- Do you crave the silky smooth power delivery?

I have silky smooth power delivery. And a fat punch at the top end.

- Do you go to a few track days?

Nope. And if I did, it'd be on the 250.

- Are you often chased by machine gun wielding baddies?

I live in South London. It's a way of life.

- Did you just fancy a change?

I started out on strokers - 50cc first, then a TZR125. After that I had inline fours - ZXR400, Bandit 1200, ZX7R. It was only after about 13 years of riding that I bought an SV, partly because I wanted to see what the fuss was about with V-twins. It was like riding a bike with a diesel engine. Too agricultural, too much (!) engine braking, ran out of steam too early. A friend had what I have now, and replaced it with a 1098 - he seems to like the pose value but as a road bike doesn't rate it nearly as much.

- Will your next one be another IL4 ?

Probably.

- Did you try a bigger twin before going down the IL4 route?

I've toyed with a big twin (1098 or similar) but they just seem a waste of money when I can get something faster, comfier and more usable for a fraction of the price.


The short version is I have something with the bottom end stomp of a twin, the top end lunacy of a four and it's just as capable when being thrashed down A and B roads, used as a central London commuter, or going on a 2000 mile jaunt to Italy and Austria. I only have room for two bikes in the garage at the moment and the silly one is a twin. For everything else I have a litre four - the combination of practicality, frugality and banzai nuttiness is hard to beat.

I wouldn't touch a 600 four with someone else's bargepole, mind.

[madness]

I've only ever riden my SV650 and a CBR600RR.

I definately prefered the way the power is delivered on the SV, but I prefered the smoothness and handling of the CBR.

If I ever get board with the SV then I'll be looking for a compromise between the two if that is possible.

Somebody needs to make a modern V twin with a smooth engine and put it in a top notch frame and fit top notch brakes and suspension.

[Stig]

I have a twin and a four. I find them both great in their own ways. Just need the one in between. :wink:

[Stig]

WTF are TVSF :D



Only the best regional section of the whole forum. You should feel proud have had the privilege to post in such a hallowed area of the forum. :wink:

[Spiderman]

:lol:

[fr499y]

tbf, i just gone from a Bandit 600 to a brand new SV650 as i prefer twins simply because of there useable power. The bandit was good, but your always wanting to take it close to the red line to get anywhere..

[sv650nutter149]

i've had 2 sv's now, a good all round bike. But got bit bored of it, and wanted something with a bit more power. So now traded my sv in for a z thou which is quite scary which is good for me any ways. Also got a street fighter gsxr 600 and with the gearing on that then its all good home

[KnightRider]

IL4's all the way for me. I think supersport 600's have all the power you really need on the road, a thousand is probably over the top but I will reserve judgement till I have tried one.

In terms of usable power, I find the IL4's perfect for my riding style. However, you do have to ride them differently ie keeping the revs up above 7k if you want acceleration. In the same way as with a twin you need to keep it between 4-8k.

IL4 pros
For me, IL4 is a smother delivery of power. You have an insanily fast top end if you suddenly get the urge to make progress rapidly, but then when you are on the motorway you can chuck it in 5th and cruz at 6k rpm.

Twin negatives
Not much choice in my price range - SV650's are not exactly the most hard wearing of bikes in the winter. Dont like the lumpy engine, it is a bit like driving a diesel (lots of power in a small lump, vs an IL4 which is like a petrol supercar with progressively more power. IL4 tend to be lower which is great for me as I am a shortarse.

[sandman]

What he said apart from the short **** bit

[ogden]

I ride a four rather than a twin for the same reason I drive a petrol car rather than a diesel - low down torque's all fine and dandy until it runs out. And it will run out. Very quickly.

The idea that IL4 engines don't make torque low down is entirely driven by small peaky engines. I had a bandit 1200 years ago and if you think twins make gobfuls of torque, that was something else.


The thou is the most versatile bike I've ever had. I've used it for commuting across central London, Sunday scratching round the Cotswolds and a 2200 mile tour round France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Germany. Whether you want to ride balls-out or trundle along at a moderate pace the engine is the last thing you have to worry about (wrists and bum will complain long before the power delivery becomes a chore). And, crucially, it doesn't have the vibes you'd get from a twin.