View Full Version : Feeling a bit peed off.
hindle8907
05-11-09, 01:28 PM
I work in I.T and have been with my company for 2 years i wont tell you how much i earn but its really low for what i do. And i have never had a pay rise.
Anyway i asked for a pay rise this time last year and was told, the company cant give me one this side of xmass as we are making some redundancies but I don’t see why not into a bit after the new year because i like your work and you work hard ....so its got to October this year and i asked again and was told by my boss that he would ask again for me and he come back today and said I can give you an extra 1000 pounds a year if i will be on call every other weekend for emergency calls only ... EG if a server went down or the phone system went down.
so it will be more than likely i wont even get any calls but its really peed me off because im taking on extra responsibility for an extra grand what i should of been getting anyway.
I cant decline of the offer because i really need the money but i think their really taking the Pi$$ what do you think ?
I should be on at least 3 grand more than i am on now there are plenty of other jobs out there what i could apply which pay 4 grand more than i am on now but as i am doing my NVQ's and Microsoft qualifications i cant leave untill i have finished them late next year.
Its upset me a bit because yesterday when he said he had some good news i was thinking all last night i am getting a decent pay rise.
and turned out to be the above.
I know i should be thankful for having a job but it gets me down knowing im working so hard and not getting the money i deserve.
And the company isn’t doing too bad because they are employing lots of new engineers because there is so much work on.
They are massive company who service all the bakery machines in all the major supermarkets. (multi million pound company)
Was part of the AGA group now AFE.
Personally, I think that's a bit off, but it's the way of the world, many companies are using the recession as an excuse to clean out dead-wood and hold back salary increases.
What do you do in IT?
Look for something better/more rewarding.
Don't think that just because you're doing qualifications, you can't leave. Many companies will buy out the cost of the qualification and pay for you to finish it, especially if you don't go through a recruitment agency.
Biker Biggles
05-11-09, 01:39 PM
Big company?Is there a union you can join?One thing is sure.You wont win on your own.An extra grand for being on call every other weekend?Id tell them where to shove that and get a part time Saturday job for extra money.
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 01:43 PM
I think your lucky you have a job. I also think that your lucky you got a payrise at all. £1000 in your pocket is better than a kick in the b*ll*cks or a P45 and a thanks very much.
IMHO
hindle8907
05-11-09, 01:45 PM
Personally, I think that's a bit off, but it's the way of the world, many companies are using the recession as an excuse to clean out dead-wood and hold back salary increases.
What do you do in IT?
Look for something better/more rewarding.
Don't think that just because you're doing qualifications, you can't leave. Many companies will buy out the cost of the qualification and pay for you to finish it, especially if you don't go through a recruitment agency.
I am an IT Technician me and my boss are the only 2 in the IT Department i manage around 200 users on 3 different sites (boss does feck all lol ).
Its not the company who are paying for the qualifications its the government but i can only do them if i am in a place of work and the company agree to let me do the courses. Which my company did.
I have applied for jobs that would get me on the wage i should be on but none of them are willing to let me carry on my qualifications as I would need around 6 weeks off thorough out the year to do the courses.
+1 on what Fizz said
Im currently trying to get into ICT (Although i want to be a Police officer now but my area isnt recruiting) and i have had one interview in over 20 applications...
i agree, there using the recession to reduce/remove xmas bonus's as well.
Though in my experience in IT, its more what you know / experience you have, more than what qualifications you have.
i have interviewed MSCE's and computer grads who knew f**k all, the last person i employed, on paper, didnt have any qualifications at all.
I think that isn't bad to be fair.
I took on a person's work as well as my own in June with no payrise offered and when I asked I was told No you have a job! (but in a nicer way).
We are looking at a 2% pay rise this year which means I will get just short of £400 extra for taking on the work I have. They have saved 15k by the person leaving. Am i pi$$ed off? Of course I am but I'd rather that than my P45.
If you feel its not enough go back to your manager and ask if there is any chance of a bit more, if you have job adverts to support what other companies are paying use them! It depends how friendly you are with your boss, and how he would take that type of conversation.
hindle8907
05-11-09, 02:09 PM
I think your lucky you have a job. I also think that your lucky you got a payrise at all. £1000 in your pocket is better than a kick in the b*ll*cks or a P45 and a thanks very much.
IMHO
ITs not just a 1000 pound pay rise is it Though.... its giving up every other weekend and not being able to have a drink incase i get called in for an extra 19 pounds a week.
I was told i would have a pay rise this year.
And now they are saying i can but i have to take on more responsiblity.
I should of been geting the rise anwyays so i think they are taking the rip a little bit.
i wouldnt even except if i wasnt desprate for the money.
i would rather go without.
I work my Balls off for next to miniumum wage in a Skilled IT job.
hindle8907
05-11-09, 02:13 PM
i agree, there using the recession to reduce/remove xmas bonus's as well.
Though in my experience in IT, its more what you know / experience you have, more than what qualifications you have.
i have interviewed MSCE's and computer grads who knew f**k all, the last person i employed, on paper, didnt have any qualifications at all.
I have 3 years IT experience. 1 working as and engineer and 2 as a technician.
but the Microsoft certs help.
Gazza77
05-11-09, 02:17 PM
I have applied for jobs that would get me on the wage i should be on but none of them are willing to let me carry on my qualifications as I would need around 6 weeks off thorough out the year to do the courses.
So what you're saying is that your present company allows you 6 weeks paid leave a year in order to study, which other companies wouldn't be prepared to do. Your current employer doesn't sound so bad now does it...
Dave20046
05-11-09, 02:26 PM
So what you're saying is that your present company allows you 6 weeks paid leave a year in order to study, which other companies wouldn't be prepared to do. Your current employer doesn't sound so bad now does it...
Yes they do, every company I've been with offer these sorts of educational schemes.
Hindle, take the atleast your in a job point of view, I'd discuss it further with your boss and sound out whether they are only saying the 'on call' bit out of principle, it might be a case that they know full well they'll never call on you.
Also, if you see these other jobs, apply for them if you're not happy where you are you can always then go to your employer in a position of power and explain how you feel.
PS. Is computer technician a better job title that computer engineer? I just thought engineer meant the guy who does everything.
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 02:34 PM
I was told i would have a pay rise this year.
I get told that every year, sometimes I get the rise sometimes I dont...
So go back to your boss and ask him what he thinks you need to do / achieve in order to get the rise you want next year.
He'll have a lot more respect for you for doing that, than he will if you start on at him about how you dont want to do on call and your fedup because you didnt get the payrise you deserve...
I work in IT I have done so for 17 years... I do on call one week in three. 24 x 7. for the first four years I worked where I am now I didnt get paid any extra for being on call it was expected of me. At least your being paid for it ;-)
As for minimum wage, one could argue your lucky you make that. My first IT job when I left college paid £60 a week...
Are they paying for you to do your MCSE ? If so and they are letting you take study leave to do it, Your very lucky as I've never worked anywhere that was prepared to let me do that....
Gazza77
05-11-09, 02:36 PM
Yes they do, every company I've been with offer these sorts of educational schemes.
You're right, many companies do offer such schemes.
The OP stated that no-one else was prepared to offer such a scheme to him though, so in this particular example, his employer is being far more flexible in allowing such paid leave than any other potential employer.
plowsie
05-11-09, 02:39 PM
There are people who are not as lucky as you mate. You sound like the bleeding Royal Mail.
I was told i would have a pay rise this year.
Where you told you would get a pay rise or where you told you would get a pay review?
They are very different things, we find we have the same problems each year who have a pay review but don't get a pay rise, they moan it is in their contract at which point we have to point out no its in your contract for a REVIEW!
Plus if it was only a comment and not documented apart from in your memory then there is not much you can do
sorry
If the company isn't struggling then it does seem a little harsh.
However, if you could poll just about everyone who is lucky enough to be in a job you would find:-
a) the vast majority aren't getting any pay rise.
b) quite a number are on short time/reduced pay.
c) some are in a consultation period prior to redundancies.
d) a number have taken on extra duties, with no pay rise, just to keep the company afloat and keep their job.
Personally, I think you are lucky that your boss/company has found a way to find some extra dosh for you. Don't forget, if any other member of staff finds out about your pay rise at least your boss can say it was to compensate for the extra duties you've taken on board.
Take it on the chin, smile. And when we're out of the recession you'll probably get paid your a fair crack.
No company likes demotivating staff by not being fair but the current climate isn't helping anyone.
-Ralph-
05-11-09, 03:02 PM
Well it's not really a pay rise that is it. It's an additional payment for being on-call.
When I was on call at Capgemini I got £2 an hour, then I went onto overtime rates if I had to work as the result of a call. I was on an on-call rota and did that about 1 week in 4.
5:30pm Friday to 8:30am Monday is 63 hours. If you did 26 weekends a year that's 1638 hours, or 61 pence an hour. If that's the case then yes, IMO they are taking the p1ss.
When your on-call, if that includes connecting into customers servers you need to be within a couple of hours of your laptop and a broadband connection at all times, so you can't go away for the weekend, you can't drink too much as you might have to talk to customers by phone or drive to a customer site. On-call IMO does place restrictions on your private life and you need to be compensated properly.
If you need an extra 14-15 odd quid a week after tax, then you have to talk to them about exactly what service you are expected to provide for that money and how often you will get called, and decide if it's worth it for you.
hindle8907
05-11-09, 03:06 PM
ill explain a bit more when i get home cant really do it in work.
But me and my boss work in the same 2 man office just me and him ... he knows how much of a hard worker i am and im 99.9% certain if i got another job offer on the money i should be earning my boss would tell the company to match it as he wouldn’t want to lose me and it would be a good 3-4 grand increase.
But i want to finish my courses before i get a new job or try to pull the i have been offered a new job card.
i have had 2 reviews not pay reviews just work reviews and he always praises me and tells me how happy he is with my work and how i deal with my work load ect ect i have mentioned pay to him numerous times and i think he knows deep down that i deserve to be on more money.
im am thankful i have a job i don’t sound like the royal mail i wouldn’t strike even if i could but unless you know me and have seen my work load or my pay slip then your not going to understand fully are you.
After 2 years of hard work and loyalty i am never late or off sick i have passed all my exams and been told a few times yea just wait a few more months to then get told i can have an extra 1000 pounds if be on call at weekends is a little disheartening and i don’t feel like i have been rewarded at all for my efforts.
and i have to take on more work load just to have a little more money in my pocket what i should have been getting anyway>...
CheGuevara
05-11-09, 03:24 PM
I'd say stick it out until you get your needed courses done. Then see what your options are and ask for a competetive pay increase if you feel like sticking around.
I'm in IT as well (Oracle DBA). I think I'm reasonably well paid, but then I put in a ton of extra hours, and usually finish the year with a bunch of holiday time or TOIL which I can't roll over and don't get paid for (lost over 2 weeks last year). I'm loyal to the company I work for, but if a much better deal came along I wouldn't hesitate to make the jump. I have a look around occasionaly, and lately have been considering contracting (even if I don't earn more, I'm positive I'll work less).
I think in IT it pays to move around every now and then. In my experience, any given environment will see you focusing on a subset of your skills -and what you don't use, you lose. I've gained a lot of experience since I started in IT, but I've also forgotten much of what I knew when I graduated. Changing environments every couple of years can force you to keep your skills sharp and experience broad, and is a good way to ensure you keep moving up the ladder and don't get stuck in a rut .
EDIT- golden rule when changing jobs in IT - don't burn any bridges because you never know when you might be working with/for the same people again!
After 2 years of hard work and loyalty i am never late or off sick i have passed all my exams and been told a few times yea just wait a few more months to then get told i can have an extra 1000 pounds if be on call at weekends is a little disheartening and i don’t feel like i have been rewarded at all for my efforts.
and i have to take on more work load just to have a little more money in my pocket what i should have been getting anyway>...
I really do sympathise. I've got 15 engineers, the majority of which are brilliant. They've worked exceptionally hard this year, more so than usual. Pulled in some great figures. And at year end I'll get the pleasure of telling them there is no pay rise.
2yrs ago pay rises in excess of the rate of inflation were the norm. The only thing that has changed is the economic climate. But it will change back.
Be patient Obi-One.
I've not read the whole thread ....
But take heart you have a job at the moment ....
I've not had a pay rise (per say) in 8 years ..... try being an Estate Agent in the credit crunch !!!
Quiff Wichard
05-11-09, 03:44 PM
well me not worked since redundant a while back.. I was ill on tuesday when I had to sign on.. because I am not allowed to be "ill" on a signing day they withold your money until you have filled in a form and posted it back (via royal mail strike)..
so.. me not got me £125 on friday .. so me couldnt go and spend it all on beer.
now THAT is peed off !
The extra grand is payment for being on call. If you're actually called, you should be getting overtime or TOIL to compensate. Clarify this with your employer before accepting. I'm on call 24/7/365 - part of the job, and not much goes badly wrong as we have redundant systems.
plowsie
05-11-09, 04:29 PM
After 2 years of hard work and loyalty i am never late or off sick i have passed all my exams and been told a few times yea just wait a few more months to then get told i can have an extra 1000 pounds if be on call at weekends is a little disheartening and i don’t feel like i have been rewarded at all for my efforts.
and i have to take on more work load just to have a little more money in my pocket what i should have been getting anyway>...
Welcome to the working life son. Can't expect cash to be thrown at you for a bit of extra work, I see where your coming from. But, at the moment, can you afford to be out of a job?
You say your a hard worker, your posting this while your at work :lol: (This is a joke ;))
I've been due a payrise for the past two summers now...but hey ho pay freeze across the whole company. It does hit the junior staff moreso than the senior staff who have already been through the progression stages and on a decent wage already. My immediate bosses understand this, the fianance director understands this, the finance director won't do anything about it.
PS. IT Engineer...my colleagues would be livid with that job title lol ;)
yorkie_chris
05-11-09, 06:08 PM
computer engineer?
:smt076
I can't believe some of the replies! OK, so people are out of work, being made redundant...What's new? Why does mean that the rest of the working population should wave there claim to a pay raise? I've witnessed 16 rounds of redundancies with varoius compies, and been directly affected by 2. So what? His company is busy, actively recruiting in his field, and making a tidy profit I bet! Why shouldn't he expect/ask for a pay raise without having to take on more responsibilities? Especialy when his pay packet is below average to start with. OK so he's getting some time off for training...which the company doesn't pay for, (if i've read the post correctly), and will benefit from. It's not as if training = cigars and brandy all round at the local 5 star hotel...does it? I can't abide this "just be gratefull you're lucky enough to have a job" crap. Everyones working life has some luck in it, good and bad, but you won't last long anywhere on luck alone. He earns his living.
RE: the posties. If you had a job which had somehow managed to retain good terms and conditions of employment, would you just through them away? Remember the posties aren't doing this for a giggle. You don't get paid when you go strike, and it's nearly Christmas...
After 2 years unless you love your job you start getting ****ed off.
I'm paid about 5k under what I should be getting paid... Its a joke.
Like is ****ty, no doubt it will get better at some point.
Dave20046
05-11-09, 06:28 PM
:smt076
=;
Dave20046
05-11-09, 06:31 PM
How much do you think you should be earning?
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/network%20engineer.do sites like this are just wrong lol
I judge how much I should be earning on a) advertised jobs b) what colleauges earn who are crap and do 50% of the work I do earn c) the amount of profit I make the company which is 589% my current salary.
Dave20046
05-11-09, 06:40 PM
I judge how much I should be earning on a) advertised jobs b) what colleauges earn who are crap and do 50% of the work I do earn c) the amount of profit I make the company which is 589% my current salary.
yeah that's how I do it, I earn them about 4-500% my salary. I'm sure average earnings for the company are usually about 3 or 4x your wage though. Maybe bri w or any employers on here could clear this up?
hindle8907
05-11-09, 06:42 PM
I'm not piS$ed off because i didn't get the pay rise .... i would of been quite happy carrying on the wage i was on until i finished my courses then i could start to look for a new job but its how he came back to me with we can give an extra 1000 pounds a year if you go on 24 hour call every other weekend.
im on next to minim wage and now i have to bring work home and into my weekends for an extra 20 quid a week.
If i wasn't on my A$$ i would of declined the offer and told them what i have just said above.
I don't get paid enough anywhere near enough to Bing my Work into my weekends . when i finish on a Friday i love the feeling of yes ...no work till monday.
on the other hand if i was on the correct wage i would be quite happy to do the on call weekend
Dave20046
05-11-09, 06:43 PM
start applyin mate
If you're not happy its the only way to go, asked the first company I worked for for a small payrise, they said no I went to a job on well over double the pay. They were taking the ****, you have to do the best for yourself, they would. Obviously work ya hardest but you do have to do the best for yourself - bet they ask you to stay ;)
hindle8907
05-11-09, 06:44 PM
i should be on minimum 16 and a max of 20ish g a year
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 06:58 PM
I don't get paid enough anywhere near enough to Bing my Work into my weekends . when i finish on a Friday i love the feeling of yes ...no work till monday.
Then dont take the extra £1000 for doing it...
hindle8907
05-11-09, 07:02 PM
Then dont take the extra £1000 for doing it...
i cant not i need every penny i can get even if it does mean i am being F'ed over .
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 07:07 PM
i cant not i need every penny i can get even if it does mean i am being F'ed over .
For what its worth I dont think you are. Like I said earlier. I did on call for nearly 4 years without earning a penny for it... and taking a bit of responsibility on now, might make your boss more inclined to dish out that payrise your taking when your company is financially able to do so. Short term pain = long term gain maybe ?
If you need the money your just going to have to put up and shut up...
hindle8907
05-11-09, 07:22 PM
If they wanted to they would give me a payrise. i know the company is doing well. there busy as they. have ever been just landed big contacts with Marks n spencers and waitros and been employing loadz of new bakery engineers. 2 a week for the past few weeks and there still comming think and fast .
Anyways i was feeling down in work and thats why i posted just wanted to get it of my chest how i was feeling.
so thanks :)
Just ride it out till the right job comes along mate, you'll be fine.:smt111
PS. Is computer technician a better job title that computer engineer? I just thought engineer meant the guy who does everything.
Not having a pop at you Dave, I'm assuming a bit of tongue in cheek in here!
BUT...
While i'm on a rant, and half cut, why is "Engineer" attached to every other job going? In the rest of the world it actually means something not dissimalar to Doctor, Lawyer, Teacher. In the UK, the bloke that puts wheels on wheelbarows calls himself an Engineer...
Not having a pop at you Dave, I'm assuming a bit of tongue in cheek in here!
BUT...
While i'm on a rant, and half cut, why is "Engineer" attached to every other job going? In the rest of the world it actually means something not dissimalar to Doctor, Lawyer, Teacher. In the UK, the bloke that puts wheels on wheelbarows calls himself an Engineer...
A little like...
"I've put the bin out tonight love, the recycling engineers will be round first thing."
or
"You can't put that down the loo, it'll upset the effluence redistribution engineers!"
hindle8907
05-11-09, 08:44 PM
in I.T i think engineer is more harware focused than a technician. not 100% on that though
well at my last job my title was computer engineer and all i did was install and configure hardware in servers desktops and laptops and didnt do much with the software side of things.
wheres now as a techy i get my fingers into allsorts . too much to list lol .
Bluefish
05-11-09, 08:51 PM
I think your lucky you have a job. I also think that your lucky you got a payrise at all. £1000 in your pocket is better than a kick in the b*ll*cks or a P45 and a thanks very much.
IMHO
yes really lucky, £19.23 a week extra for for losing half of your weekends per year, and don't forget to take the tax and NI off of that as well. why does everbody think you are lucky to have a job, or if you have a job, most people do it's not luck.
yes really lucky, £19.23 a week extra for for losing half of your weekends per year, and don't forget to take the tax and NI off of that as well. why does everbody think you are lucky to have a job, or if you have a job, most people do it's not luck.
:winner:
Boot
Particularly enjoyed your "effluence redistribution engineers" quote, will need to remember that one!
hindle8907
05-11-09, 08:57 PM
yes really lucky, £19.23 a week extra for for losing half of your weekends per year, and don't forget to take the tax and NI off of that as well. why does everbody think you are lucky to have a job, or if you have a job, most people do it's not luck.
:winner:
+1 and i wouldnt be taking the offer up its only becuase im in a bit of a rut at the moment i am going to do it .
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 09:20 PM
yes really lucky, £19.23 a week extra for for losing half of your weekends per year
Which he's not being forced to do and is doing voluntarily because he needs the extra cash. If he didnt want to do the on call he could have just said no. ( or thats how I read his post anyway )
Company where I work is turning over a profit at the mo. Last year we went through 2 rounds of redunacies I watched my friends go through consultancy, then I watched some of them loose their jobs and then not be able to find emplyement in IT. The job market is flooded with skilled, capable people with excellent CV's who cant get work. Thats what I was getting at by my "Lucky to have a job comment"
yorkie_chris
05-11-09, 09:22 PM
Or if you're lucky £20 for doing nowt all weekend?
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 09:23 PM
Or if you're lucky £20 for doing nowt all weekend?
Exactly...
hindle8907
05-11-09, 09:45 PM
Or if you're lucky £20 for doing nowt all weekend?
key word being nowt lol ..... as in i cant do anything becuase im tied to a phone/computer.
but eh i cant argue like fizz said its my choice.
One i might regret but eh ho .... a mans gta do what a mans gta do . lol ;)
How far do you travel to work? Do you have to pay to park? Will you get paid extra for the time, and if so, will it be at overtime rate?
You need to decide whether it's financially viable to do. Has it not occurred to you, that you may have a £1k pay rise coming to you, and your lazy ass manager is trying to pull a fast one?
hindle8907
05-11-09, 09:55 PM
How far do you travel to work? Do you have to pay to park? Will you get paid extra for the time, and if so, will it be at overtime rate?
You need to decide whether it's financially viable to do. Has it not occurred to you, that you may have a £1k pay rise coming to you, and your lazy ass manager is trying to pull a fast one?
its about 22 mile. i dont have to pay to park.
I will get paid time and half if i have to go into work but i wont get paid any extra for taking calls and giving remote support.
he said the company will pay for any taxis if needed.
i dont think he is pulling a fast one becuase they are giving me small laptop with a data stick and a comapny phone.
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 09:55 PM
key word being nowt lol ..... as in i cant do anything becuase im tied to a phone/computer.
How quickly do you have to respond when you get called. We have a guideline with ours.
I cant remember the exact rule, but its basically I must have my mobile with me and I need to answer it. Or have it set so it can take a voicemail and then I need to return the call ASAP.
We have a guideline that I must be able to dial into the office within 20 minutes of being phoned and that I should be no more than an hour away from the office so that if I have to go in to fix a problem I can do so.
Work provide me with a mobile phone that is for use to receive and make calls when I'm on call. I'm also provided with a laptop so that I can work remotely.
What being on call does for me is make damn sure that when I setup something from scratch or if I fix a fault I do it properly. I dont leave things that need doing and I make sure I do everything I can when I am in the office to minimise the chance of being rung because something has gone wrong. Of course things happen but if you are clever with what you do you can reduce the chance of getting called to virtually nowt.
I look after 400 servers, split across 150 sites, with approx 2000 users... I work in a team of two... I do a 3 week rotation of on call so two weeks off and then one week on. I've been called 3 times this year. Two times I talked the person that rang me through fixing the problem. The third time I had to dial in and it took me an hour to solve the problem.
Thats it... be clever, be smart, and thats an easy £20 a week...
hindle8907
05-11-09, 09:57 PM
How quickly do you have to respond when you get called. We have a guideline with ours.
I cant remember the exact rule, but its basically I must have my mobile with me and I need to answer it. Or have it set so it can take a voicemail and then I need to return the call ASAP.
We have a guideline that I must be able to dial into the office within 20 minutes of being phoned and that I should be no more than an hour away from the office so that if I have to go in to fix a problem I can do so.
Work provide me with a mobile phone that is for use to receive and make calls when I'm on call. I'm also provided with a laptop so that I can work remotely.
What being on call does for me is make damn sure that when I setup something from scratch or if I fix a fault I do it properly. I dont leave things that need doing and I make sure I do everything I can when I am in the office to minimise the chance of being rung because something has gone wrong. Of course things happen but if you are clever with what you do you can reduce the chance of getting called to virtually nowt.
I look after 400 servers, split across 150 sites, with approx 2000 users... I work in a team of two... I do a 3 week rotation of on call so two weeks off and then one week on. I've been called 3 times this year. Two times I talked the person that rang me through fixing the problem. The third time I had to dial in and it took me an hour to solve the problem.
Thats it... be clever, be smart, and thats an easy £20 a week...
basicly the same mate.
i just hope certain departments dont try to abuse it just because they know some one is available.
fizzwheel
05-11-09, 10:03 PM
i just hope certain departments dont try to abuse it just because they know some one is available.
So make sure you have SLA's setup and a procedure that they have to follow in order to ring you. That way they'll wont be ringing you up because some dopey ass moron cant access their email as happened to me at 3am on morning...
Our on call is set so that I will only get rung if we cant take orders, or we cant process them and put customers goods into a box and ship them out the door. Anything else waits till the helpdesk guys are on site...
if they are giving you a laptop and a phone etc etc, I reckon you'll be set right. If you are really cheeky ask for a 3G card for the laptop then you can dial in from anywhere....
its about 22 mile. i dont have to pay to park.
I will get paid time and half if i have to go into work but i wont get paid any extra for taking calls and giving remote support.
he said the company will pay for any taxis if needed.
i dont think he is pulling a fast one becuase they are giving me small laptop with a data stick and a comapny phone.
Well at least there is a few quid in it for your if you do get called.
I used to be on call for a company who listed the call out thing as "just part of the job". Turned out being on call, (not just weekends, all out of office hours), basically meant packing an overnight bag and sleeping in the canteen. Basic money was OK though, but it still sucked, espicially when your in your early twenties with a previuosly active social life.
hindle8907
05-11-09, 10:10 PM
espicially when your in your early twenties with a previuosly active social life.
lol i am 20 :) with an over active social life when it gets to weekends lol .
Yeah they are giving me a vodafone data sitck.
Dave20046
05-11-09, 10:58 PM
Not having a pop at you Dave, I'm assuming a bit of tongue in cheek in here!
BUT...
While i'm on a rant, and half cut, why is "Engineer" attached to every other job going? In the rest of the world it actually means something not dissimalar to Doctor, Lawyer, Teacher. In the UK, the bloke that puts wheels on wheelbarows calls himself an Engineer...
Don't worry, it was :razz: however I do call myself a computer engineer when it comes to insurance renewal/ hospital questions because I just don't know my job description! I do about 5 jobs.
try being an Estate Agent in the credit crunch !!!
...or a solicitor. My team has had a 20% cut and there is zero prospect of it being lifted in the foreseeable future. There are some motnhs - quite a few actually - where I can't take a bean, so I work for nothing.
yeah that's how I do it, I earn them about 4-500% my salary. I'm sure average earnings for the company are usually about 3 or 4x your wage though. Maybe bri w or any employers on here could clear this up?
5 Senior Engineers earn approx £42k.
8 Engineers earn approx £37k
2 Engineers earn approx £34k (only with us two yrs, and still training.)
However the costs to be added to, for example, the Senior Eng salary are:- pension 9% of salary. N.I. at 11% of salary = £8k. On-call, £1k. Daily allow, £1.3k/yr. Then add the costs of a car, and running it, £7.2k.
Costs approx £60k to put the guy on the road.
Business expectation = £180k @ 45% gross margin = £81k.
Then deduct the £60k engineer costs, leaves £21k gross profit.
And after all that there is the back office/infrastructure/support costs.
We are having a "good" year in a difficult climate but in reality we might just break even. Hence no pay rise.
Alternatively, give a pay rise and reduce staff. Reduce staff and not meet our contratual obligations.
fastdruid
06-11-09, 01:35 AM
You could do what someone I know did, voice your dissatisfaction, close a jobserve window whenever the boss would see your screen (always leave it _just_ long enough so he can see), book a days holiday at short notice and 'confide' in someone (ideally someone you know will blab) that it's for an interview. If they want to keep you be prepared to bluster and if it works one days holiday and a bit of cunning could result in an rather nice payrise. :-)
Of course you could actually go for an interview but that's up to you!
Oh and fwiw I'm also on support but I'm on weekly support (rather than just weekends), don't *have* to be sober, don't have to be near a computer, alternate with a colleague[1] and get 6k for it. Admittedly I do get a fair few calls but mostly not late and will have weeks without a call. I would want *far* more if I *had* to be able to dial in/go in (although I do and probably would).
Druid
[1] We work it out between ourselves so that our personal lives don't suffer, so we'll occasionally swap a few days/weekends etc if we have anything planned that would really interfere.
squirrel_hunter
06-11-09, 02:02 AM
The only thing I would add would be on the call out side of things. Is there anyone else doing it with you?
I share the call out for my team with another chap and like Fastdruid we can swap between us if we have stuff on. The other month I did 3 weeks in a row simply because the other guy had stuff that he needed to do, no problem as he did 3 weeks straight after me. We also have an agreement that I take Christmas and he takes New Year as we each prefer the other. Just something to consider as from time to time you really don't want to be on the end of a phone all weekend.
The only thing I would add would be on the call out side of things. Is there anyone else doing it with you?
I share the call out for my team with another chap and like Fastdruid we can swap between us if we have stuff on. The other month I did 3 weeks in a row simply because the other guy had stuff that he needed to do, no problem as he did 3 weeks straight after me. We also have an agreement that I take Christmas and he takes New Year as we each prefer the other. Just something to consider as from time to time you really don't want to be on the end of a phone all weekend.
And good old murphy says you won't get a call all year, until xmas and then something really important will break.
Biker Biggles
06-11-09, 12:32 PM
I can't believe some of the replies! OK, so people are out of work, being made redundant...What's new? Why does mean that the rest of the working population should wave there claim to a pay raise? I've witnessed 16 rounds of redundancies with varoius compies, and been directly affected by 2. So what? His company is busy, actively recruiting in his field, and making a tidy profit I bet! Why shouldn't he expect/ask for a pay raise without having to take on more responsibilities? Especialy when his pay packet is below average to start with. OK so he's getting some time off for training...which the company doesn't pay for, (if i've read the post correctly), and will benefit from. It's not as if training = cigars and brandy all round at the local 5 star hotel...does it? I can't abide this "just be gratefull you're lucky enough to have a job" crap. Everyones working life has some luck in it, good and bad, but you won't last long anywhere on luck alone. He earns his living.
RE: the posties. If you had a job which had somehow managed to retain good terms and conditions of employment, would you just through them away? Remember the posties aren't doing this for a giggle. You don't get paid when you go strike, and it's nearly Christmas...
Agreed.Thatchers children have been brainwashed into thinking like this,being grateful for a few crumbs from the rich mans table.
In fact any modern society that cant provide a proper standard of work for its people is in need of a very radical overhaul.Bring it on.
Owenski
06-11-09, 12:51 PM
Been in a similar situation myself hindle.
Just a note it may have been covered but have you considered that your current company are actually paying you for what you are giving them. I dont mean that your a slacker or anything lol I mean because you loose 6 weeks through training.
eg if your doing a job that other people are getting £24,000 a year to be doing but your only earning £22,000 for the same job. But your doing the training course for 6weeks a year then your actually getting paid for the time your spending in work. Your hourly rate will work out the same as the rate of people doing the same thing for 24grand a year but dont go to collage.
I had a similar discussion at review time with my employer, how come people who I can do more than and work harder than are earning more money than I am. Simple answer: 36 days out of the year that Im not here, they are.
It would explain why these other companies would offer you the position on a the higher salery but then refused once you requested about working for that money but missing 6weeks of work. 6 weeks is a long time when you look at it anually.
The good news is that once you complete the training then they'll have no excuse and many other places will be more than happy to take you on the higher wage packet.
EDIT: If someone can understand what it is I've written here can they re-write it so it makes sense to everyone. I cant think of how to word it better but it may be quite helpful to Hindle if he hasnt already considered it himself.
Gazza77
06-11-09, 12:54 PM
I bet you would struggle to find anyone that doesn't think they should get paid more for what they do, deserving cases or not.
There are a number of options open to anyone in the situation though.
1. Quit and get a job elsewhere.
2. Go on strike/work to rule, etc.
3. Do nothing other than moan how unfair life is.
4. Try and argue your case more strongly with your boss.
Everyone will have their own opinion as to which is the best course of action there.
timwilky
06-11-09, 12:58 PM
I work in IT, 24 years with my current employer. The management will always pay what they can get away with. a few years ago the company was effectively bust and had to be bailed out by a foreign government. Huge global redundancy program,restructuring and I had to tell a dozen staff they no longer had jobs.
As a result of the restructuring I no longer have a management role, however I kept my car and have since had it renewed. But my salary is being held back, I am lucky to see inflation rises. for 3 years I got no pay increase.
They know I will not leave, 24 years invested in the pension scheme. They can treat me how they want, I just say thank you and take the monthly insult.
Simple rule I have seen with plenty of my peers when I was chasing bucks. Line up a new job and resign. I had a principle of counter offer first time and then accept the letter second time.
Owenski
06-11-09, 01:06 PM
Druid do you work for BT? sounds bang on the same set up as my dad is on.
Dave20046
06-11-09, 02:06 PM
I work in IT, 24 years with my current employer. The management will always pay what they can get away with. a few years ago the company was effectively bust and had to be bailed out by a foreign government. Huge global redundancy program,restructuring and I had to tell a dozen staff they no longer had jobs.
As a result of the restructuring I no longer have a management role, however I kept my car and have since had it renewed. But my salary is being held back, I am lucky to see inflation rises. for 3 years I got no pay increase.
They know I will not leave, 24 years invested in the pension scheme. They can treat me how they want, I just say thank you and take the monthly insult.
Simple rule I have seen with plenty of my peers when I was chasing bucks. Line up a new job and resign. I had a principle of counter offer first time and then accept the letter second time.
bugger I thought pension schemes could be transferred to a new employer :(
Gazza77
06-11-09, 02:36 PM
bugger I thought pension schemes could be transferred to a new employer :(
Sometimes you can, depends on the scheme. You won't always benefit from moving them though, probably advice from a financial advisor would be useful when considering such things though.
fastdruid
06-11-09, 10:55 PM
Druid do you work for BT? sounds bang on the same set up as my dad is on.
No. I'd rather not say who but no where near that big.
Druid
Thank goodness for my guaranteed public service salary! Mind you, I do some pretty nasty **** for it, and work shifts covering every day of the week, 2 weekends off in 5, and there's no chance of me getting a day off if I scheduled to work it.
Horses for courses.
Leedsmatt.
I understand what your saying, but the compnay will benefit from his new skills and knowledge, he's not doing a course in basket weaving. From what I've read the company isn't paying anything towards the course either, it's government funded. Lastly, it would be interesting to know if the course was offered freely, or begged for. If it was pushed for, then maybe there is a bit more weight to your argument...as the company may not have felt the need for him to attend in the first place.
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