Problem client [Archive] - SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

13-11-09, 12:26 AM

Some months back I acted for a client (we'll call him Jim) who had been sacked for incompetence. Jim worked in a role where he handled a lot of money - cash and cheques - and because of poor accounting techniques he cost his company about £30K, disovered on audit. He was sacked, but they docked him about £900 in wages - everything they could stop basically - no notice, no holiday pay etc.

I threatened to sue them for unlawful deductions from wages and after a bit of argy bargy they paid up, sent me a cheque payable to Jim.

Jim decided he didn't want to go to the Tribunal on an unfair dismissal claim. I sent him a bill for £175 + VAT which was damn cheap for what I did. He didn't pay - many reminders later, still no ££ - so I sued him. He admitted the whole amount so I entered judgement. By this time, with the court fee, solicitor costs on issue, and on entering judgement, the total claim is £337. He filled in the means questionnaire from the court saying that he was living with his parents, and was receiving benefit. He offered to pay at £10/month.

I rejected the offer as it would take nearly 3 years to pay, assuming all the payments were made. I asked the court to order £50/month as he had conveniently overlooked the money I recovered.

The court has made an order. £10 a month it is.

I'm bloody furious. How the hell am I supposed to run a business... I now ask all my clients for £ upfront.

Grrr.

Jayneflakes

13-11-09, 12:38 AM

Sorry to hear that Ed, hope that you do not end up in that situation again. Some people really do carry a curse with them and he seems to taken your share of good will for a ride. Hope that your next client has a little more integrity honey. Hugs XXX

-Ralph-

13-11-09, 12:42 AM

Yep, getting the money out of folk is always the difficult bit.

Try not to get ****ed off too much about it and treat it as a business from which you pay yourself a salary.

If it was somebody else's business you'd only see it as an allowance for non-collectable accounts on one side of your balance sheet, and a non-collectable account expense on your income statement. It's just 'cos it's your own business and that makes it personal that it ****es you off.

jamesterror

13-11-09, 12:47 AM

Thats the great society we live in, just like all nurses needing a degree really.

speedplay

13-11-09, 01:11 AM

I know how you feel Ed.

I'm owed my last invoice from the previous contract I did.
There was a problem client (hes an idiot and my mrs can do a better job as an architect)
Who has snagged the job and decided hes not going to pay my client as changes he issued have not been carried out.
(It has come to light that the changes have yet to be issued and this is why they have not been carried out.)
I have had to give him the heads up on my new contract as he wanted me to go to another job for him and I had already commited myself elsewhere.
I was told today that he was holding my money until I go back and do the changes even though everyone has agreed that they are an extra, chargeable Item.
I have been asked to go to a meeting to discuss when we will be able to do the extra works.
After explaining that I will be in the office tomorrow to collect my payment in cash (just under 2k) before I enter into a meeting for extra works as all of my time is chargeable and if he wants me to work for him, then I will need paying, he has agreed that hes going to pay...

God I hate idiots.

If it goes t*ts up tomorrow Ed, do you want some work..?

I'll pay you when I can ;)

timwilky

13-11-09, 09:02 AM

This is why I only ever did work on instruction from organisations that should pay, solicitors, insurance companies etc.

No way would I work directly for joe public.

BTW Ed, I will be going ahead with that little matter. Do you your cut up front?

Von Teese

13-11-09, 09:09 AM

Ed, that is disgusting,

Shame really that we can't trust people anymore and the honest people have to be tarred with the same brush, but I agree with the fact that you are probably going to have to charge people upfront in future as it seems like the courts will not support the victims anymore in criminal and civil matters.

Do they calculate interest on it then like a loan would or do you merely get the tenner until its paid up to what he owed you?

Gazza77

13-11-09, 09:13 AM

You ought to see some of the repayment plans I've seen in the past for staff who have been overpaid in error. £50 a month to repay £11k in overpaid wages after they left for example...

DanAbnormal

13-11-09, 09:32 AM

What an ****.

I hope my company paid you the fee's for the work you did for me Ed!

-Ralph-

13-11-09, 09:39 AM

You ought to see some of the repayment plans I've seen in the past for staff who have been overpaid in error. £50 a month to repay £11k in overpaid wages after they left for example...

To be fair this is the companies fault for making the mistake in the first place.

Gazza77

13-11-09, 10:57 AM

To be fair this is the companies fault for making the mistake in the first place.

True, down to the department not notifying payroll of their departure. Still not a reasonable repayment plan imo when you perfectly well you have been overpaid. Would you not notice an extra £2k a month for 6 months in your account? Or feel guilty about fleecing the taxpayer, when it is public money? (I work in the public sector).

speedplay

13-11-09, 11:50 AM

Or feel guilty about fleecing the taxpayer, when it is public money? (I work in the public sector).

Nope.

I'd sit on it as long as possible, earn the interest off it while paying back as little as possible :)

Sorry, but I pay my taxes and every little back really helps :)

Dicky Ticker

13-11-09, 12:21 PM

Ed,I am surprised that you don't operate the "Up-front" practice for members of the public. In all my dealings with solicitors appointed by me after the initial interview to outline my needs they have asked for a fee before proceeding and when and if this becomes more than their initial estimate I have had to pay the additional costs
Example
Court defense for speeding
Initial interview free
Instruction to proceed with defense-£500-upfront
Further defense costs,including Barristers fee-£1000-upfront
Final cost including all their expenses for two court appearances-£380

I will add that on completion of the case I explained to them that I thought a couple of the listed items were excessive as I had provided photographs and litigation for the defense and I was given a
£200 refund. I don't know if that is normal practice or not.

Biker Biggles

13-11-09, 12:22 PM

Sorry to hear this ED.
Seems to me that non payment is quite common,and it should be normal and acceptable for service providers to require payment,at least in part,up front.
Or in this case,it should be acceptable for you to deduct payment from the clients payout.Perhaps the rules need to be changed?

13-11-09, 01:48 PM

I'm too trusting... this client seemed very plausible. I don't like asking clients for money upfront, but thsi is not the only client I've sued and so I'm going to have to. VT - no interest on judgement debts below £5K sadly.

The point is that the Court makes stupid orders - I will be getting a tenner a month for nearly 3 years assuming the client pays. If client defaults, I'll send the bailiff round.

TW - no, I trust you!!!

Spiderman

13-11-09, 02:04 PM

That sucks Ed. Can you not appeal the coutrs judgment on this one?

Also for future clients can you not draw up a contract that says you will deduct your bill from any monies that you recoup for them? I know plenty of central london sols who do this as a standing working practice. We have some money but before we send it to you we take our fees out of it. Client can appeal the bill after he's paid it but at least you got your bill settled and you're not chasing for it.

CheGuevara

13-11-09, 02:39 PM

I read the story as "I helped out a guy who screwed a company out of £30K and then karma bit me in the a$$" :)

Seriously that does suck though -and I bet the £10 will be a constant reminder of a bad situation for the next few years...

sv-robo

13-11-09, 04:11 PM

I rejected the offer as it would take nearly 3 years to pay, assuming all the payments were made. I asked the court to order £50/month as he had conveniently overlooked the money I recovered.

The court has made an order. £10 a month it is.

I'm bloody furious. How the hell am I supposed to run a business... I now ask all my clients for £ upfront.

Grrr.
S'ok,your a solicitor......you can afford it;)

Specialone

13-11-09, 05:57 PM

After being ripped off a few years ago for £900 im very distrusting of customers now, if its a big job i always ask for cash at certain stages so keep any potential damage to a minimum.

Ed, maybe spend the £10 a month on payments to a local yob to harrass the tos-ser until the debt is paid, 3 years of harrasment? hmmm...

sauluk

13-11-09, 06:46 PM

Think of it in a positive guise. Annuity income / pension fund. Crack on with loads of these and you'll be set up for life...... or not

Von Teese

14-11-09, 09:32 AM

I bet the £10 will be a constant reminder of a bad situation for the next few years...
Oh yes! Im sure he will be quite devastated :rolleyes:!

Im sure Ed will accept a one of payment to ease his distress though :smt077

14-11-09, 01:23 PM

I think it's fundamental dishonesty. I get a lot of calls from potential new employment clients, all much like this one, usual 'life's so unfair' sob story. Next they ask, 'can I get legal aid' and I say 'no, there's no legal aid for Employment Tribunals' (which is true) and then they want a conditional fee. Always wanting something for nothing.

yorkie_chris

14-11-09, 01:32 PM

Unlucky one ed. Serves the company right for not doing their homework before making someones life unpleasant, but given how much he'd cost them you should have expected him to be a thrush!

You ought to see some of the repayment plans I've seen in the past for staff who have been overpaid in error. £50 a month to repay £11k in overpaid wages after they left for example...

True, down to the department not notifying payroll of their departure.

In that case charge the person who didn't do their job. If someone gives me 11k for nowt then they'd best expect some serious work to get it back.

Gazza77

14-11-09, 08:56 PM

In that case charge the person who didn't do their job. If someone gives me 11k for nowt then they'd best expect some serious work to get it back.

Glad job the GMC didn't have the same view with the Doctor that was struck off for not repaying due to an innocent error causing an overpayment.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Shamed-doctor-rightly-struck-says-judge/article-339378-detail/article.html

yorkie_chris

14-11-09, 09:19 PM

Gazza77

14-11-09, 11:03 PM

Glad job, you mean good job?
Don't see it. So a doctors been struck off, meaning 1000s of pounds worth of training wasted. And now the poor bloke with no trade is landed with excessive legal costs too.

Fault entirely at the feet of whoevers in charge, they should be more careful with peoples money.

Yes, good job. People make mistakes, everyone is human. **** happens and all that. As people want to happen, patient care takes priority over paperwork, so someone gets paid in error. Doesn't meant that someone should benefit with over £30k of the NHS's money due to that though. Each to their own opinion and all that.

yorkie_chris

14-11-09, 11:08 PM

Owenski

14-11-09, 11:10 PM

this isnt the only raw deal that you've had recently is it? feel for you man, those self employed people must be really suffering atm. Its a shame that when you do someone a favour like that and they stiff you for it.

Chin up.

Or... Kick him in the nuts!

speedplay

14-11-09, 11:14 PM

those self employed people must be really suffering atm.

It does make you wonder if its worth all the hastle that goes with it:(

Yes the money is better (when you get it) and theres more flexability with what you choose to do but sometimes its just nice to get paid every week/ month and know its all going to be there.

Owenski

14-11-09, 11:17 PM

It does make you wonder if its worth all the hastle that goes with it:(

Yes the money is better (when you get it) and theres more flexability with what you choose to do but sometimes its just nice to get paid every week/ month and know its all going to be there.

thats pretty much what it comes down to isnt it? Those who goes self employed are both good at managing the money in those tight months but also have the balls to take the plundge in the first place.

Gazza77

14-11-09, 11:20 PM

Compared to what has happened now, guy probably won't have any chance of repaying it, money still lost, courts aren't run for free, and the NHS has to spend another fortune to train a replacement doctor.

So what's happened now is everyone has lost out! Doctor himself, patients, and NHS! Only one who has earnt out of this is law firm!

Court order to repay + costs, Doctor already left the country & hence the NHS. Who lost again? The guy lost: moral of the story, if you're overpaid & found out, give it back!

I think this thread is getting derailed by a couple of us here...

speedplay

14-11-09, 11:21 PM

thats pretty much what it comes down to isnt it? Those who goes self employed are both good at managing the money in those tight months but also have the balls to take the plundge in the first place.

I've been self employed since I left college (all but 1 year out) and have earnt 3-4 times as much as employed people doing the same job.

But...

I work harder too as I'm lucky if I know where the next job is coming from.
I've had a few weeks off due to wanting to take the time rather than not having the work and even in this recession, I've been lucky to have worked my way through it but the worry of getting paid is getting more and more :(