Soldier jailed for handing in discarded gun to police

[metalangel]

:smt013

This has made me furious: clicky (http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/news/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/article-1509082-detail/article.html)


A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".

He'd probably have gotten a lighter sentence if he'd shot some people with it instead!

[yorkie_chris]

What an enormous cluster-f**k. A beautiful message to send out to the public.

[tigersaw]

Unbelievable.
I hope the gutter press pick up on this and run with it.

[zsv650]

wtf of all the rediculous thing's i've heard this is a top ten in police not using their common sense ****'s sake.

[Spiderman]

just another case that proves the law is an ass tbh.

however this is the worst bit of defence i've heard...
"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.

"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"

Yes it is unreasonable to taint possible fingerprints, walk about with a possibly loaded and cocked firearm and then plop it on the desk of a senior copper.

Fair enough in this case the guy was a soldier and someone who is familiar with small arms so he could do it safely...but why he didnt advise the senior cop he made an appointment with of what he had found and what he planned to do with it is beyond me.

i expect your average member of the public to find a gun, LEAVE IT WELL ALONE and call the cops. I really, really wouldnt want some numpty carrying a loaded firearm in a bin bag about the streets tbh.

The jury in this case had no option to find him guilty if that is the law but the desk sargent should never have charged him and CPS should have throw it out too. What a waste of time and money to charge this guy.

[metalangel]

I reckon there's more to it we don't know (what the nature of his conversation with the police prior to coming to the police station was in particular) but nevertheless unless he burst into the police station waving the gun around shouting 'DERKA DERKA! DIE PIGS!' throwing him into prison is a step too far.

[Stu]

He should have checked if they were having a gun amnesty - if not, keep it until they are, or wipe hs prints off & throw it back over the fence :roll:

[yorkie_chris]

That made me chuckle last time they had an amnesty; head piggy sat there looking really smug with this big display of firearms handed in... what's at the top of the board, an old break-barrel air rifle!

[Alpinestarhero]

christ, i was about to take a tank down to the local bobby. best not now, I'll throw an old bedsheet over it and keep shtum

[Stu]

I think what spidey says, fair enough he didn't know it was a gun until he looked in the bag (I found a dead dog like that once :() but once he knew what it was he didn't handle it very well.

Although it sounds like you should call a solicitor rather than the police f you find a gun.

[Nick762]

WTF????

[barwel1992]

^^^ +10000000000

what the hell is with our police force/court i think they need to get there head screwed on the right way round

[metalangel]

My dad and I handed my grandfather's old rifle in to the police in Toronto without any problems. Granted we left it in the car and went into the police station and told them what we wanted to do and the cop came out and collected it himself.

[ArtyLady]

What a complete lack of common sense the authorities have shown here IMO! - being a soldier I don't suppose he would think twice before picking up - he's not necessarily gonna be an expert on the law - I suppose he would'nt have picked it up if he was!

Well I think we're all doomed - no one is allowed to make mistakes these days - mistakes just don't exist - everyone is supposed to be perfect and know everything :(

[TazDaz]

From reading that article, the prosecuting lawyer sounds like a right knob head. I know he's only doing his job, but have some morals ffs!

[yorkie_chris]

prosecuting lawyer ...morals

:smt046

[zsv650]

lawyer morals
never doesnt happen:(

[Spiderman]

I think what spidey says, fair enough he didn't know it was a gun until he looked in the bag (I found a dead dog like that once :() but once he knew what it was he didn't handle it very well.

Although it sounds like you should call a solicitor rather than the police f you find a gun.

If he'd just left the bag where he found it and called 999 and told em what he found he'd have been fine. Its was the billy big balls attitude of "i'm a soldier, i can handle a gun" that got him in the do-do.

I handed a gun in when there was an amnesty and even then the girl on the desk was more than a little shocked when i open up the case to how her what was in it.

i had however already asked her if there was still a gun amnesty on, made sure there was and then told her what i was about to show her before i opened the case. She still took 2 steps back and went a little pale tho :lol:

[TazDaz]

never doesnt happen:(

Does happen on occasion. The mother works at a solicitors and I've heard stories of her colleagues passing over cases if they don't agree with them!

[metalangel]

I handed a gun in when there was an amnesty and even then the girl on the desk was more than a little shocked when i open up the case to how her what was in it.

i had however already asked her if there was still a gun amnesty on, made sure there was and then told her what i was about to show her before i opened the case. She still took 2 steps back and went a little pale tho :lol:

And she works in a police station? The gun isn't going to leap up and bite her on the neck!

edit: Hang on, young lady? police station? a little pale? ZOMG it's MBK and she's got your gun now!

[yorkie_chris]

I am really curious as to why this country is terrified of guns. I think this is the root of any problems we have with them.

Noone seems half as scared of screwdrivers, kitchen knives or cars?

[Spiderman]

And she works in a police station? The gun isn't going to leap up and bite her on the neck!

if you'd seen her face tho :lol: I think she thought it was gonna kill her just cos she was looking at it. The fact it was a blank firer, the magazine was out and the firing pin was also taken out all seemed fairly irrelevant to her, bless.

Funniest bit was when she said...still staring at the gun... that she needed to take my details :roll: I asked her if she knew what an amnesty was ans she carried on staring at the gun and muttered something about getting someone else down to look at it...at which point i left pretty shaprish.

It was one of these tho so i can kinda understand her being that way
http://www.icsbb.com/eicsbb/hs_pic/ICS-27-Folding-Stock.jpg

[barwel1992]

eddit YC im not scared of guns im scared of the person on the other end of it, thats the problem its not the gun its self its the person that in operation of it :/

[Spiderman]

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

[davepreston]

first point ,he is a squadie so firearms are a nothing to him so what he did in his mind is completely reasonable
yes the cps needs a slap for wasting my money on charging him
and here's a final note to get ya thinking
we was allowed into the top cops office carring a shotgun and no one checked/searched him before hand ,more confidance inspireing detective work from our protectors in todays climate

[Spiderman]

see
http://radicalrags.com/images/t-shirts/anti_bush_guns_dont_kill_people_kill_people_design .gif

[yorkie_chris]

we was allowed into the top cops office carring a shotgun and no one checked/searched him before hand ,more confidance inspireing detective work from our protectors in todays climate

Shame noone thought of this when Brunstrom was OC of north wales police!

[Specialone]

http://www.icsbb.com/eicsbb/hs_pic/ICS-27-Folding-Stock.jpg

Spidey, thats cool, I would have took that off your hands, i wouldnt have been scared either lol

I think theres more to this story tbh, still sucks though.

[Spiderman]

I'd saved up for ages to by it too and when i tried to sell it all the people who were interested were right dodgy types. My house had been broken into not long before either and i just couldnt live with myself if it had fallen into the wrong hands and was drilled out and being used by crims. So if i couldnt sell it to anyone i trusted i only had one sad choice...give away nearly £500s worth of toy i loved :(

Gutted but i had no other real choice.

[yorkie_chris]

Can't have had full mechanism in there though? That tube looks way too short to have return spring in there.

[Spiderman]

It did tho, very well put together bit of kit from the only company who had the rights to create the replica, Jaeger i think it was. Some German brand anyway.
Barrel was made of cheese metal to stop anyone trying to mess with it and reactivate it tho, the rest as far as i know was all replica parts of the original.
Emptied a 20 round clip of 9mm blanks as fast as you could pull the trigger 20 times, lol.

[davepreston]

guns to kill people wrappers doo

[Milky Bar Kid]

I find it rather strange that an ordinary member of the public, who had no previous Police involvement was allowed to call in and speak with a Chief Superintendant in the first place. I wouldn't even be allowed to call and speak to one unless he wanted to speak to me first? Something about that doesn't ring true to me.

I agree with Spidey on this one though (doesn't happen often folks so enjoy). But at the same time feel that if the way it is reported in the paper is the "real" story, then it's a little harsh. This is only my opinion and not based on any facts though. I do find that the story doesn't entirely ring true though.

I regularly get people coming to our front desk demanding to speak with the Supt., not even the Ch.Supt. and they get told "you can speak to me or the duty Sergeant" and they either like it or they go away. You can't just demand to speak to a senior officer. That would be like me going to Downing Street and walking into Gordon Browns office for a cup of tea and to tell him to cut our tax a bit! It just doesnt happen.

[Red Herring]

MBK, you beat me to it by seconds... Something isn't right here, we're not getting the full story. As you say the only way you get to speak to the Chief Supt is if you either know them personally (in which case he wouldn't have got scuffed) or if they wanted to talk to you first, and even then you'd have to go through a staff officer or PA first. Finally if it did happen as the paper say then I doubt a jury would have convicted him. Despite what everybody thinks the buck does stop with them. Somebody can be completely bang to rights on the evidence without a leg to stand on and juries have still been known to find not guilty if that's the "moral" option.

[speedplay]

Problem solved... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEMrAum7C0Q&feature=player_embedded)

[Biker Biggles]

Reading the report it hinges on "strict liability",ie no common sense,no criminal intent,and no legal defence.That is the factor that is undermining justice in this country and this case seems to be a classic example.
Having said that,the jury does not have to convict whatever the daft law says,and if I had been on the jury I think they would have been persuaded to apply some common sense.

[Spiderman]

Problem solved... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEMrAum7C0Q&feature=player_embedded)

And he's so right!
I watched some documentary about just one arms company in america who make over 100,000 rounds of ammo AN HOUR for all types of weapons. If Chris rocks example was followed they could get their working day cut donw to just half an hour a day, lol.

[Biker Biggles]

There was a famous case of a civil servant(name escapes me)who leaked some information that really needed leaking who got done under the Official Secrets Act.He admitted everything,but pleaded not guilty,and the jury refused to convict, against what the judge told them to do.

[Spiderman]

There was a famous case of a civil servant(name escapes me)who leaked some information that really needed leaking who got done under the Official Secrets Act.He admitted everything,but pleaded not guilty,and the jury refused to convict, against what the judge told them to do.

Was this something that happened a thousand years ago BB? i think its been about that long since common sense was seen to be at work in the judicail system.

[Stu]

Just spoke with armed police in my local supermarket. i.e. Surrey where this case is. He hadn't heard about it, but as people hand in guns all the time reckons there's more to it than being reported.

[davepreston]

I find it rather strange that an ordinary member of the public, who had no previous Police involvement was allowed to call in and speak with a Chief Superintendant in the first place. I wouldn't even be allowed to call and speak to one unless he wanted to speak to me first? Something about that doesn't ring true to me.

I agree with Spidey on this one though (doesn't happen often folks so enjoy). But at the same time feel that if the way it is reported in the paper is the "real" story, then it's a little harsh. This is only my opinion and not based on any facts though. I do find that the story doesn't entirely ring true though.

I regularly get people coming to our front desk demanding to speak with the Supt., not even the Ch.Supt. and they get told "you can speak to me or the duty Sergeant" and they either like it or they go away. You can't just demand to speak to a senior officer. That would be like me going to Downing Street and walking into Gordon Browns office for a cup of tea and to tell him to cut our tax a bit! It just doesnt happen.
just a quick one mbk and that is in my dealing with the police (which have been many not all bad ethier) i have always been able to speak directly to the duty inspector, as is everyones right yes they try and make you deal with a duty sgt but ive found after a few well chossen words this has never been a problem, just wondered about your veiw on that
cheers dave

[Red Herring]

I dealt with an RTC once where a lorry turned left at some traffic lights and in doing so ran over a young boy who had been waiting on his push bike against the kerb. Ran all three axles over him, not a pretty site. I copped the job of telling his parents what happened. The driver made off from the scene and was found an hour later hiding in the back of a wardrobe at his mothers. Turned out he didn't have a licence or any sight in his left eye... He ended up in court, was convicted of careless driving, and walked out of court putting two fingers up at the local press.
A few weeks later the father of the boy, in broad daylight in the middle of the village, pulled up next to where the lorry driver was standing with a mate, calmly took a shotgun from the back seat of his car, and shot the bloke at point blank range. Unfortunately he had the wrong load in the weapon and only winged him. He then got back in his car and drove straight to his solicitors office to wait for the police to arrive. Needless to say he ended up in court charged with attempt murder and after a lengthy trial during which countless witnesses told exactly what had happened the jury found him not guilty. Completely wrong legally of course, but morally the right verdict I'd say.

[Milky Bar Kid]

just a quick one mbk and that is in my dealing with the police (which have been many not all bad ethier) i have always been able to speak directly to the duty inspector, as is everyones right yes they try and make you deal with a duty sgt but ive found after a few well chossen words this has never been a problem, just wondered about your veiw on that
cheers dave

Certainly at our station you will be asked to go through the Duty Sergeant first unless you have a prior arrangement with the Duty Inspector.

My point was though, that you wouldn't just be able to speak to a Ch Supt. An inspector is a few ranks down from Ch Supt........

[Biker Biggles]

There was a famous case of a civil servant(name escapes me)who leaked some information that really needed leaking who got done under the Official Secrets Act.He admitted everything,but pleaded not guilty,and the jury refused to convict, against what the judge told them to do.

I just remembered.It was a bloke called Clive Ponting back when Maggie was dictator here.

[yorkie_chris]

Certainly at our station you will be asked to go through the Duty Sergeant first unless you have a prior arrangement with the Duty Inspector.

such as:

I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.

[yorkie_chris]

And he's so right!
I watched some documentary about just one arms company in america who make over 100,000 rounds of ammo AN HOUR for all types of weapons. If Chris rocks example was followed they could get their working day cut donw to just half an hour a day, lol.

Aye but he's only right if criminals are the only ones using guns!

[Nelson]

I'm sure my divisional commander would probably decline a meeting, if I phoned him up and said "Do you mind of I pop in tomorrow? I've got something to discuss...." without explaining things a wee bit further. I wouldn't dare try ring him up even as a copper!

When I turn up at someones door and all they say is "I want to speak to your Inspector", it does rather make me somewhat less inclined to assist them!

I'm sure there's more to this story than Mr Ex-Squaddie is saying.

[Milky Bar Kid]

such as:

You cannot just ring a Ch Supt and make an appointment with him unless you are either friends with him or you have ongoing business with him. Business which would have to be pretty serious.

Having a prior appointment with an inspector is not uncommon but unless you are of similar rank from another force or high up in organisations such as council, social work etc etc, it is VERY VERY uncommon for a member of the public to be having meetings with a Ch Supt, unless, VERY serious business.

[metalangel]

Another question for our friends in uniform - if he had just called 999 and reported it, the police would have been out there (pardon the pun) like a shot, right? No waiting 48 hours for a crime reference number and a victim support letter?

[timwilky]

Many years ago, I was shooting at one of the NPA events at Bisley. With friends we were having dinner and a table at the other side of the restaurant was surrounded by armed police. Staff had reported one of the dinners was wearing a shoulder holster and they thought he might have a gun.

Surprise surprise, 3/4s of the dinners there were competing. We have the dilemma, we cannot leave our pistols in our rooms, we cannot leave them in our cars so you go out you carry them with you. Most like me had theirs in their bag with them. The guy surrounded was not the only one in that restaurant wearing his in a holster. And that included several police officers who were also competing.

Still after I was robbed of my rifles after Newbury, got some compensation after Dunblaine, the prediction came true. The easy target was hit. You take legally held guns from the law abiding meaning ony criminals would own guns. If they know they have them illegally what the hell makes anyone think they would want to dispose of them legally.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Another question for our friends in uniform - if he had just called 999 and reported it, the police would have been out there (pardon the pun) like a shot, right? No waiting 48 hours for a crime reference number and a victim support letter?

Certainly our Force would.

[plowsie]

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
Isn't that a song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X6N3z1RVgo

[Sally]

Gun's Don't Kill People, Rappers do - Goldie Lookin' Chain ;)

[plowsie]

Gun's Don't Kill People, Rappers do - Goldie Lookin' Chain ;)
Aha, but you're wrong.

Dogs don't kill people, Wabbits do - Mouldy looking stain ;)

[Viney]

I wondered what i done with it...oh well, off to make another

[Sosha]

interesting contrast....

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23760609-police-told-man-to-walk-two-miles-with-a-loaded-gun.do