View Full Version : KTM announce 81.4 million euro loss
speedplay
01-12-09, 10:25 PM
Uh oh :(
I knew there was a reason the_lone_wolf was having a clear out..
linky (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/ktm-announce-814-million-euro-loss/8942.html)
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 10:31 PM
Old noooz doood - Back in the summer we knew it was going to be rough, nothing like launching a flawed product into an unfamiliar market during the biggest recession in living memory to hit profits...;)
They Blew it a few years back...
When they backed out of "Long way Round" and BMW stepped in.
Owenski
01-12-09, 10:36 PM
They Blew it a few years back...
When they backed out of "Long way Round" and BMW stepped in.
+1 if ewan and charlie would have failed they'd have not been able to blame the bikes anyway. Unless they failed through maufactuer fault, so KTM are not too convinced by their own product IMHO.
Saying that...I still have the EXC :)
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 10:55 PM
so KTM are not too convinced by their own product IMHO.
Perhaps they were too busy winning the Dakar Rally for the last nine consecutive years running only to have the organisers change the rules to disallow their bikes because nobody else stood a chance to worry about what a couple of celebs do with their bikes and an entire backup crew farting off round the world on a personal jolly?;)
xXBADGERXx
01-12-09, 11:14 PM
Perhaps they were too busy winning the Dakar Rally for the last nine consecutive years running only to have the organisers change the rules to disallow their bikes because nobody else stood a chance to worry about what a couple of celebs do with their bikes and an entire backup crew farting off round the world on a personal jolly?;)
And those celebs and 2 series have done more for adventure biking in the last few years than anything else .
oh oh oh ... wheres that hang bag photo.........!
# damn.. can't find it....
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 11:33 PM
And those celebs and 2 series have done more for adventure biking in the last few years than anything else .I wouldn't call a string of GSs parked outside Starbucks a progression for adventure biking...;)
I'll take that saucer of milk to go thanks:p:D
xXBADGERXx
01-12-09, 11:36 PM
I wouldn't call a string of GSs parked outside Starbucks a progression for adventure biking...;)
I'll take that saucer of milk to go thanks:p:D
I`d call that progression of GS`s outside Starbucks a quantifiable profit and not a massive 80 odd million Euro bumming in sales , take that as BMW getting the cream off that saucer of Milk you just talked about .
Spiderman
01-12-09, 11:38 PM
pah, thats the sort of money i drop down the back of the sofa and not even notice.
xXBADGERXx
01-12-09, 11:41 PM
And you may mock GS owners for not using the bike in the manner it wasn`t designed for but in the same light I live a mile away from North Wales`s premier KTM dealer and see exactly the same thing with KTM`s on the street . Are you going to mock every Supermoto poser on the streets because they don`t bang elbows with Thierry Van Den Bosch ?
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 11:41 PM
I`d call that progression of GS`s outside Starbucks a quantifiable profit and not a massive 80 odd million Euro bumming in sales , take that as BMW getting the cream off that saucer of Milk you just talked about .
Perhaps have a look see into why the figures are what they are before you start talking about sales dude:rolleyes::p
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 11:44 PM
And you may mock GS owners for not using the bike in the manner it wasn`t designed for but in the same light I live a mile away from North Wales`s premier KTM dealer and see exactly the same thing with KTM`s on the street . Are you going to mock every Supermoto poser on the streets because they don`t bang elbows with Thierry Van Den Bosch ?You want to share this saucer?:smt043:p
xXBADGERXx
01-12-09, 11:45 PM
Whatever , just seems that nobody is allowed to talk in any way about your wife KTM without you being all uppitty about it , seems that wearing a Tour X and jumping a couple of muddy puddles makes everybody an expert nowadays . Unsubscribing from BS thread now so say what you like .
still looking... Damn someone please help me out....
Oh I feel a little like Jezz Kezz...
TLW will accept a lie dector test... and Badger is getting Culled...
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 11:50 PM
Whatever , just seems that nobody is allowed to talk in any way about your wife KTM without you being all uppitty about it , seems that wearing a Tour X and jumping a couple of muddy puddles makes everybody an expert nowadays .
Why would that make me an expert on business finance? Not that I needed to be one, provided you can read beyond a banner headline:confused:
Richie: here's our handbags - in orange - SWEET!:p
http://www.handbagshandbags.com/ProductImages/prada_handbags_br2613_orange.jpg
no no no.. let me finish what I was saying....
TLW AKA Mr Awesome has laid down and Staked 80million euro's claim in that company...... by buying an orange bike...
You Sir, Mr Badger... what have you shown...?
TLW, there are people back stage ready for you. we have a full service crew and tyre warmers...
the_lone_wolf
01-12-09, 11:59 PM
TLW AKA Mr Awesome has laid down and Staked 80million euro's... by buying an orange bike...
Fark dude, I knew they were expensive, didn't know I'd paid that much!!!:smt116
Supervox
02-12-09, 07:08 AM
Perhaps they were too busy winning the Dakar Rally for the last nine consecutive years running only to have the organisers change the rules to disallow their bikes because nobody else stood a chance to worry about what a couple of celebs do with their bikes and an entire backup crew farting off round the world on a personal jolly?;)
Sorry old boy - you can put whatever spin you like on this issue - but the fact is that KTM told Ewan & Charlie that they didn't believe that they'd make it & therefore wouldn't be a good advert for their bikes.
So regardless of their recent Dakar achievements (and it's actually 8 consecutive yrs not 9 - the race was not held in 2008 & the rules weren't changed to penalise KTM - just to try and encourage other manufacturers in - you really have bought into the whole KTM 'thing' haven't you?) it has to be said that they screwed up.
the_lone_wolf
02-12-09, 08:15 AM
Sorry old boy - you can put whatever spin you like on this issue - but the fact is that KTM told Ewan & Charlie that they didn't believe that they'd make it & therefore wouldn't be a good advert for their bikes.
So regardless of their recent Dakar achievements (and it's actually 8 consecutive yrs not 9 - the race was not held in 2008 & the rules weren't changed to penalise KTM - just to try and encourage other manufacturers in - you really have bought into the whole KTM 'thing' haven't you?) it has to be said that they screwed up.
I think your tongue location detector is malfunctioning old boy:smt043
i still love their bikes, regardless. But watching that Long way down did make me rethink the whole GS thing, they look like pretty decent bikes imo.
But there is definetly something about KTM, the 990r looks immense.
I was talking to a guy at the dealers at Sideways Motorcycles in Dorset about the whole Long way down thing and he was saying that
'basically KTM were happy to let Ewan and Charlie have the bikes but that they could not provide them with the full support (not really sure what he meant) and whereas BMW had deeper pockets so they could support them throughout thier entire trip'.
The Guru
02-12-09, 08:35 AM
Why didn't they just say
"Here you go Mr McGregor, you can have our awesome KTM bikes... but unfortunately we can't/won't provide support"
Instead they just said no.
Why didn't they just say
"Here you go Mr McGregor, you can have our awesome KTM bikes... but unfortunately we can't/won't provide support"
Instead they just said no.
yeah i was actually speaking to him before i watched it last weekend so i didnt really know how it went down (to me it looked like KTM said no), charly had a right paddy.
Drew Carey
02-12-09, 08:48 AM
Bottom line is, KTM may be a proven contender etc in Dakar, but very very very few people watch the dakar on TV compared to the numbers of people who went and watched LWD / LWR. If they had backed LWD / LWR they would have sold many many more bikes. Does it matter that people don't ride off into the sunset on them? Does it heck, what matters is sales. And no KTM rider can deny that if they had supplied Ewan & Charlie with KTM's they would have sold more bikes.
Its the same in the sportsbike market, how many people buy a superbike and actually use it as intended???? Very few, people see something nice on TV, want it to look good.
If KTM are serius about competing with BMW etc, then they need to market their bikes as such. By focusing on the adventure market they will struggle, as there are simply not enough bikers who want to ride off to Africa or wherever.
Just my thoughts, that being said, I would 100% buy a KTM if I could afford one!!!! But would be a Superduke.
the_lone_wolf
02-12-09, 09:10 AM
If KTM are serius about competing with BMW etc, then they need to market their bikes as such. By focusing on the adventure market they will struggle, as there are simply not enough bikers who want to ride off to Africa or wherever.
Very true - KTM's main focus still seems to be on the small off road machines, EXC/SX etc - that's where all the development is, closely followed by the road bikes like the SM/Superduke and RC8 - the adventure gets relatively little consideration
Taking on BMW at their own game would be suicide for a tiny company, the GS and ADV are so different in terms of their typical buyers there's plenty of space for them to exist side by side in the market
i dont think there would be anything wrong with KTM making more varied bikes, but you have gotta love the Supermotos they make, although there are a few others out there who make failry good SMs, when i think supermoto i think KTM, when i think crazy wheelie monsters i think KTM.
:)
Back in the summer we knew it was going to be rough
Have you been watching too many Casey Stoner interviews? :smt064:)
the white rabbit
02-12-09, 09:38 AM
But what about the market for folks who say the Ewan & Charley thing, but decided they would rather not buy into it (if indeed that happened) but then looked around, bought a KTM instead and the denied they had bought into the E&C thing ;)
KTM 990 became quite popular, more mainstream. Crap bike for road compared to the GS :p
Well, being sensible not as good a bike for road, and that's what nearly all bikes are used for. The GS is a very capable allrounder. Ok, maybe not as good as a 950/990 in the crappy stuff but you should be using a smaller tool then anyhow. I think KTM riders drink as much corporate Kool-Aid as BMW riders :lol:
the white rabbit
02-12-09, 09:44 AM
I was talking to a guy at the dealers at Sideways Motorcycles in Dorset about the whole Long way down thing and he was saying that
'basically KTM were happy to let Ewan and Charlie have the bikes but that they could not provide them with the full support (not really sure what he meant) and whereas BMW had deeper pockets so they could support them throughout thier entire trip'.
Bike salesman? He's sure to know the ins and outs then :lol:
Bike salesman? He's sure to know the ins and outs then :lol:
yeah he said he was tight with Mr KTM. :makelurve:
both good bikes imo, but i much prefer the 990 but im talking about the 990 SM.
CheGuevara
02-12-09, 02:43 PM
I'm wondering if, or to what degree this might impact Husaberg. Seems KTM has been slowly burying them anyhow. A shame - loved my KTM sm, but my FS650 was the most fun bike I've owned...
I'm wondering if, or to what degree this might impact Husaberg. Seems KTM has been slowly burying them anyhow. A shame - loved my KTM sm, but my FS650 was the most fun bike I've owned...
someone i know :D raced a nutter on one of them once, it was quick, and he was popping the front up at about 70 if not more.
plowsie
02-12-09, 02:48 PM
Did I just hear someone call Charley Boorman a celebrity?
:lol:
xXBADGERXx
02-12-09, 06:37 PM
no no no.. let me finish what I was saying....
TLW AKA Mr Awesome has laid down and Staked 80million euro's claim in that company...... by buying an orange bike...
You Sir, Mr Badger... what have you shown...?
TLW, there are people back stage ready for you. we have a full service crew and tyre warmers...
I owned an "R" registered KTM Sting from new and threw my fair share of pennies into KTM years ago ...... that good enough for ya ?
Did I just hear someone call Charley Boorman a celebrity?
:lol:
More of a celeb than any of the ones in the jungle! :p
plowsie
03-12-09, 09:33 AM
More of a celeb than any of the ones in the jungle! :p
He has been in a few films, 7 to be precise...5 of which, who was the director...:lol:
xXBADGERXx
03-12-09, 01:20 PM
Don`t forget his dad directed the first one he was in as well .
speedplay
03-12-09, 01:58 PM
Unsubscribing from BS thread now so say what you like .
OK....
I owned an "R" registered KTM Sting from new and threw my fair share of pennies into KTM years ago ...... that good enough for ya ?
And again...
Don`t forget his dad directed the first one he was in as well .
Hey welcome back to the thread! ;)
Just to join the "I love KTM" band, Ive owned a few over the years now and do have a soft spot for them.
Some of their marketing ideas are a bit odd but I put that down to them being Austrian;)
They made a few bad decisions but they have made a load of great bikes :)
plowsie
03-12-09, 01:59 PM
Don`t forget his dad directed the first one he was in as well .
He has been in a few films, 7 to be precise...5 of which, who was the director...:lol:
Ahem.
xXBADGERXx
03-12-09, 04:52 PM
Yeah well , when somebody "Calls" me out on something you are not gonna expect me to sit there and take it ? I never bought a second hand KTM which does not put much money into KTM`s coffers , I bought a brand new one which puts a little bit more in but I bet KTM make more money on spares and accessories for these bikes due to their nature . My beef with this thread was KTM making a huge mistake by not offering the deal that BMW did , thus giving higher profile to Charley and Ewan and giving BMW a higher profile . It then degenerates into BMW`s not being used for their purpose and being parked outside of Starbucks .... that doesn`t matter .... they still got sold and earnt BMW a profit , doesn`t matter that they never travel to Morrocco or Siberia or Wollamagoo or whatnot . The thread then goes further into "Well he`s bought one ... have you ?" ........ yeah , a long bloody time ago . It was a 125 Supermoto , I never went around the world on it , it was transport to me , yes I eventually bought an Arai Tour X just to look the part ..... and soon got rid of it once I heard that Ewan and Charley were gonna wear them as I knew the exact same response I would get . I then bought a Simpson RX8 and had to get rid of that cos of somebody called "The Stig" because I got the same response with that lid as well . As far as I am concerned KTM overtstretched themselves and should have stuck to what they do best .
On a side note I have 3 colleagues that have GS`s , they don`t ride around the world on them , they commute to work and have Touratech boxes and all the gear as well . And you know what , I actually envy them . They don`t have to bugger about with chains , they carry way more fuel than I do , the screen keeps most of the rubbish off them . One lad even went to Germany with his Mrs on the back and fully loaded with no worries whatsoever . If I could afford a KTM or BMW now I would buy one , I may only take it on a holiday once every few years , I may park it outside Starbucks or whatever but I know it would get 1000 miles a month on it just commuting and if that means I get to work comfortable , with no sore back and the weather deflected a bit better , then so be it .
Oh and if I did get a KTM again it would have to be second hand , probably a 990 Supermoto or Superduke and I still won`t be saving KTM`s bank balance from a bit of a hammering because any accessories I would want for it would be scoured and devoured off eBay . It`s a sign of the times and they are all tightening their belts
speedplay
03-12-09, 06:27 PM
Calm down, its just a forum.
xXBADGERXx
03-12-09, 06:47 PM
That was a calm and reasonable response , if it wasn`t I would have said I was well and truly hacked off with it and would have made it known , now read my post again but imagine it is in a calm and reasonable tone of voice and it will come across as different .... I`m not here to get a rise out of people or fall out with people , the exact opposite in fact .......... but if you corner a Badger , don`t expect it to curl up and wait for stuff to just go away , it`s gonna have a nip once in a while :)
speedplay
03-12-09, 06:54 PM
I actually didn't read it as a rant, but then you didn't need to explain that you would buy a second hand KTM rather than give them money etc.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views though.
xXBADGERXx
03-12-09, 07:03 PM
I actually didn't read it as a rant, but then you didn't need to explain that you would buy a second hand KTM rather than give them money etc.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views though.
It`s not a case of giving them money , more a simple fact of the matter that the second hand bike market is about all I could afford , those 2 KTM`s I mentioned are gonna be around the 5 Grand mark second hand and I would have to work some serious Overtime for a year and trade my bike in to get one . Not many people have the dosh to buy from new nowadays , look at the rise in prices for second hand 90`s superbikes like the original Blade ....... second hand prices have gone up nicely because people have realised you can get a lot of bang for your buck with stuff like that and it still cuts the Mustard .
speedplay
03-12-09, 07:12 PM
It`s not a case of giving them money , more a simple fact of the matter that the second hand bike market is about all I could afford , those 2 KTM`s I mentioned are gonna be around the 5 Grand mark second hand and I would have to work some serious Overtime for a year and trade my bike in to get one . Not many people have the dosh to buy from new nowadays , look at the rise in prices for second hand 90`s superbikes like the original Blade ....... second hand prices have gone up nicely because people have realised you can get a lot of bang for your buck with stuff like that and it still cuts the Mustard .
Mr VT and I went over to our local KTM premier dealer in the summer so that I could look into buying a new 300 2 stroke and Tris could dribble over the RC8.
I was talking to the salesman there as theres usually a few chopped in bikes outside but not when we were there.
He told us that a lot of the second hand bikes are being bought and taken over to europe as there is a shortage of them over there equally causing a problem over here:rolleyes:
I saw sense and didnt buy brand new in the end, as I got a great deal on another one but still got a KTM. but I would buy another one brand new though.
Their after sales were great on the last one and service was fantastic.
Its not just KTM. I'm sure if I went into any shop with a wad of cash I would get great service, but I felt that KTM had put more thought into their bikes and it does show when riding one.
xXBADGERXx
03-12-09, 07:19 PM
Oh without a shadow of a doubt , you get a lot of bike for the money and well thought out too . The "Sting" that I had , 43mm USD White Power Forks , shame the rear was a Sachs unit , but it was quality through and through . You go into Colwyn Bay motorcycles and the 2nd hand KTM section is all but empty . I have been on the hunt for nice 640LC for ages .... the cupboard is bare .
speedplay
03-12-09, 07:22 PM
I have been on the hunt for nice 640LC for ages .... the cupboard is bare .
Not many about, maybe look at the bigger bikes in the EXC range?
Was at the bike show today, and KTM still have, in my opinion the most attractive bikes. I'm not saying any are particularly practical (save for the adventure, or SMT) but theyre amazing in an ugly way. If only they could produce something a little less mad than the 950 SM and a little bit more grunt than the 690 SM I'd be in for one.
Was at the bike show today, and KTM still have, in my opinion the most attractive bikes. I'm not saying any are particularly practical (save for the adventure, or SMT) but theyre amazing in an ugly way. If only they could produce something a little less mad than the 950 SM and a little bit more grunt than the 690 SM I'd be in for one.
i went yesterday as well.
yeah i do love the 950 smr, so i had a sit on it, but they are big bikes compared to some of the other ktms, still want one though.
STRAMASHER
04-12-09, 12:00 PM
The white 990SMR is so priddy it hurts.
Actually priddy useless but oh so priddy.
Anyone want to post a pic..........
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/antonyscott/KTM_990SMR_left.jpg
they are awesome though, kind of thing you want as a second bike.
xXBADGERXx
04-12-09, 01:42 PM
<------ Runs off for a Cold Shower
950 smr is not to shabby either though
http://s2.bikewalls.com/pictures/KTM_SMR_950-aa_2007_04_1920x1200.jpg
all this about charley and ewen is by the by...
the reason KTM are losing money is cos theyve limited the bikes to a tiny percent of the bikers market...anyone under 6' 4" cant touch the ground...;)
rictus01
04-12-09, 05:03 PM
Oh I don't know, for one I'm glad this little company "overextended themselves", and the exclusive nature doesn't hurt either, my bike doesn't do "off road" and hopefully never will, but unlike most companies adverts, it does do what KTM show in theirs......:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dccxS6TJN6o
Cheers Mark.
rictus01
04-12-09, 05:45 PM
Oh and Pete, I'm 5' 11" mate...;)
STRAMASHER
04-12-09, 06:12 PM
More likely that they wasted MILLIONS on a feckin CAR. :rolleyes:
Don't think the bike part of the business is too shabby.
xXBADGERXx
05-12-09, 12:05 AM
Oh that X-Bow thing with the Audi engine . Hmmmmm .
seen one at goodwood crazy looking car, it has the same kind of performance stats as the SV. 0-60 3.6, 1/4 mile: 12.3 except top speed of 143.
the_lone_wolf
05-12-09, 11:23 AM
seen one at goodwood crazy looking car, it has the same kind of performance stats as the SV. 0-60 3.6, 1/4 mile: 12.3 except top speed of 143.
The problem wasn't so much the performance but the price
In isolation it was reportedly a good car, but compared to things like the Caterham/Arial it wasn't as good a drive, and it cost more to boot
The only reason you'd have to buy one was if you had an unhealthy crusader like fanboi-ism for all things KTM make and could never accept that anything else it better at anything...
Mine's still on back order...;-)
xXBADGERXx
05-12-09, 03:05 PM
The problem wasn't so much the performance but the price
In isolation it was reportedly a good car, but compared to things like the Caterham/Arial it wasn't as good a drive, and it cost more to boot
The only reason you'd have to buy one was if you had an unhealthy crusader like fanboi-ism for all things KTM make and could never accept that anything else it better at anything...
Mine's still on back order...;-)
Now that made me laugh
punyXpress
05-12-09, 07:10 PM
That's 0.04 Euromillions of the deficit clearred, then ?
Well done tlw
hindle8907
05-12-09, 07:15 PM
im in-love with the super duke .
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