Strange conversation in Asda tonight.........

[scooby2102]

Was at the checkout, guy behind me starts to pile up 4 x 5 litre bottles of Smart Price Vegetable Oil. Random conversation ensues...........

He tells me it works out at 83p a litre so saves a small fortune on his car diesel costs :confused:

Runs his car to approx 1/4 full tank then fires in a bottle and fills up.

He was deadly serious, honest :smt107

Being a mechanic in a previous life, here's me thinkin that I knew all the tricks :-#

Was he at the windup or anybody else heard of anything like it :confused:

[beabert]

i thought everyone knew, illegal though.

[MR UKI (1)]

Heard of it being used in certain 'older' diesel cars. Don't reckon it would do the latest generation ones any good though.

[Spiderman]

i know you can convert your car to run of chip fat but have no idea how much work that involves, guess the principle here is the same.
Or is he simply "watering down" his fuel with something that will still work ok-ish?

[dirtydog]

I used to run my Transit on a veg oil/ diesel mix, save loads of money. Don't think it's illegal though.

[dirtydog]

Oh yeah I don't thnk it works on the newer common rail diesels

[scooby2102]

Or is he simply "watering down" his fuel with something that will still work ok-ish?


yep, as per my OP although he did say it runs very well

never asked him how old it was though


.

[scooby2102]

and he also said that its not modified in any way either, just pours it straight in

[DarrenSV650S]

They did this on top gear YEARS ago

[Spiderman]

well i now know if i need to buy an old banger to get an old diesel and do this. The Org is full of good info.

[Specialone]

They did this on top gear YEARS ago


And 5th gear, they ran a merc on it with no noticeable difference.
Take a look at diesel, then cooking oil, bit of a difference, wouldnt put it in my vehicles, even though it probably work ok.

[beabert]

Don't think it's illegal though

Highly illegal, as your not paying the duty. If you pay the duty its not illegal :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm

[tinpants]

I've heard that it can bugger up the seals etc in the injector pump but i'm not sure if that is when its been mixed with ethanol or not.

[ravingdavis]

I knew a guy that had his 4x4 converted to run on chip fat oil. The local chippy used to pay him to take it away. Although he did declare it and had to pay the appropriate duty.

[ethariel]

It is technically 'illegal' iirc any 'consumable' used as a fuel should have the duty calculated and paid to the excise folks (tho if im wrong please do say so)

[Dave20046]

Mate of my sister used to drive an old merc ran on chip shop pan oil mixed with diesel. Car stank.

[sarah]

Highly illegal, as your not paying the duty. If you pay the duty its not illegal :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm

i think that's out of date. i'm sure the law has changed.

[_Stretchie_]

Not illegal, I looked into using veg oil as fuel when I got the Disco last year.

You can use something daft like 2500 litres before having to pay duty on it as fuel (and you'll need to be able to prove it)

And at about 25-30mpg on the Disco that's roughly 15,000 miles.

You can bang it straight in the tank but it behaves differently in varying temperatures so not great when it gets cold as it thickens and might not burn correctly leaving you with deposits clinging around your system.

The best thing to do is get a kit (like this http://www.dieselveg.com/) , start the car from a smaller replacment diesel tank in the car somewhere and then switch to veg oil when it's been heated up. The veg oil should really be filtered down to a certain thickness (in microns or something)

You can use SVO (Straight veg oil) or WVO (waste veg oil) or bio diesel which is something different again and come in varying % where the % is how much of the fuel is bio as opposed to diesel.

E.g. Some Morrisons sell 95 bio-diesel, where it is 95% diesel 5% bio but these can also contain anti foaming agents which can cloh up your injectors

: )

I never got around to doing it because the effort involved in collecting/buying enough veg oil to fill an 85 litre tank at least once a week far outweighed the benefit. So instead I drive the Civic to work and Cheryl uses the Disco to potter around in or when we go off roading


**EDIT**
Running on veg oil is supposed to be better for the engine, better lubricant and pretty much carbon neutral.... Apparantly. I like the idea of it but just too much hassle doing it. Nowhere around here for bio-diesel either so can't try that and to go to the nearest place would again cost me more to run the car to go out of my way to fill it up just to pay the same price (or more) than normal diesel.

Go figure, aren'/t we supposed to be making everything greener, I might invest in a field and grow rapeseed

[beabert]

i think that's out of date. i'm sure the law has changed.


This is britain we are talking about lol, they would never change if for the better lol


http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document#P20_2550

[sarah]

it's all a bit complicated
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document#P10_1054

[beabert]

3 pence difference is rates, so there is a small saving to be had :D

[dirtydog]

Not illegal, I looked into using veg oil as fuel when I got the Disco last year.

You can use something daft like 2500 litres before having to pay duty on it as fuel (and you'll need to be able to prove it)



You can bang it straight in the tank but it behaves differently in varying temperatures so not great when it gets cold as it thickens and might not burn correctly leaving you with deposits clinging around your system.




I thought it was something like 2000 litres might've been 2500 though.

During the warmer months i'd run my Transit on 50/50 veg/diesel mix and when it got colder i'd up the diesel ratio. Only thing that I would do though is change the fuel filter

[Richie]

I've just had a thought... bear with me please...
compare a car... with a baby.

if your car needs fuel...
Your baby need feeding.

you fill up the car at the petrol station... ( paying tax on fuel)
you go shopping.. (you pay VAT at the shop.) feed baby.


you decide no...

I'll put in some veg oil mixed with taxed Fuel..
I'll breast feed on occagions... = Free Fuel + taxed milk mixture.



I don't know where I'm going with this but there is a point to be made...

Breast is best.. as long as the nipples are OK. (quite painful so my missus said. when trying to breast feed the kids years ago.)



Since the Government is out to screw everyone with a form of transport... the best idea is...

Breast feed and then teach your kid to give you a piggy back every where...


global warming and fuel crises solved...



right who's round is it?

[Spiderman]

a. i'll have some of what you're having Richie, must be bloody good!
b. would it help to feed the baby steroids to give it the strength to carry a fat dad?

[Stu]

I don't know where I'm going with this but there is a point to be made...

Correct on that one...there's no VAT on baby food



;)


And for the avoidance of doubt, you do get an allowance of cooking oil etc. that you can use without duty.

I used to add cooking oil to my diesel Citroen - was great cause it was 35p a litre only 2 or 3 years ago. I think only because it has caught on that it's now almost as expensive as diesel so not worth it unless you can get sufficient quantities of used cooking oil - I bet that's expensive now to :mad:

[Von Teese]

I used to run my Transit on a veg oil/ diesel mix, save loads of money. Don't think it's illegal though.

LOL I remember that!!
Thought you were kidding me until you started pouring it in your van.
That was the day you took Mr VT and me to Guildford when you were sorting my Walton on Thames house out!

[Von Teese]

Stuff....Breast feed ...stuff

Awaits Speedplays 'Bitty' contribution...

[beabert]

So by the looks of it, a 2500 litre limit per year as long as you actually mix it with something. (The diesel) marvellous. If only the sv was diesel lol.

[Richie]

I love tit's me...



Ok..

Am now going to shut up. ;-)
breast feeding is good and so is a fully fuled bike...

will go away wondeing what breast fuel tastes like.... ;-)

[Richie]

bed time....................

night night

[barwel1992]

lol suprised cheepo gas stations havent just swaped out the disel for veg oil and not told any one and charged the same :P....... "has a idea" :D

[454697819]

he should be paying the duty on it, and it doesnt work very well with new cars,
Kerosene or heating oil is the other trick, just dont go to france as they might did the tank..

[krhall]

A colleague at work has an N reg diesel escort for sale for £200 and I was really tempted to try this but already have a car so can't justify it.

[speedplay]

Awaits Speedplays 'Bitty' contribution...


I'm over that now ;)

I worked with a guy that used to do a 50/50 split with diesel and veg oil in his transit van years ago (irish guy too, says it all ;) )and as said above, it did stink and smoked loads on startup.
It may be cheaper but I wont be running it through my car (I'd lose the tax allowance for a start!).

[husky03]

if using straight veg oil you need to pay,if using waste veg oil your allowed 2500 litres before incurring any charges, but its not totally straight forward-some fuel pumps can't work with veg oil, over a period of time the fuel filters get totally gummed up,if mixing with diesel and basically running on bio it starts to "eat" through hoses.
Like stretchie I looked at this for my landy but due to the increase filter changes and hose problems its not worth it.
As for using kerosene thats a major no no as its classed as the same as red diesel, get caught using it and your vehicle is confiscated and your hit with an on the spot fine and then further action(more money).
The cheapest and best addative to make diesel go further is old engine oil-filtered down to remove impurities then mixed with diesel -doing your bit for the enviroment and saving some readies in your pocket.

[454697819]

yeah didnt add kerosene is a no no lol

I don't do it as I have a 3.0 tdci in which they say i can run up to 95% bio diesel but they wouldn't recommend it.....

[wyrdness]

yeah didnt add kerosene is a no no lol

I don't do it as I have a 3.0 tdci in which they say i can run up to 95% bio diesel but they wouldn't recommend it.....

The Ford tdci diesels aren't supposed to be very compatible with bio-diesel and you certainly shouldn't try to run them on cooking oil. I've heard (& do your research before trying this) that Merc diesels will run happily on any oil, including chip fat, so long as it's filtered.

[husky03]

Looked at getting the biodiesel kit but for the money and time its to much effort at the moment.Also would be interesting how the local council would look at me having a mini refinery in the garage.Maybe when diesel prices go sky high i'll have to change but i think it needs to go to about 2.00/l to be uneconomical.

[speedplay]

I'm getting just under 60MPG from my diesel at the moment, just about to get it cleaned out with a service shortly and thats from a 150bhp 2 litre diesel running a bluefin box.

I know things can be a bit tight at the moment, but theres tight and then theres so tight you squeak when you walk.

[wyrdness]

I'm getting just under 60MPG from my diesel at the moment, just about to get it cleaned out with a service shortly and thats from a 150bhp 2 litre diesel running a bluefin box.

I know things can be a bit tight at the moment, but theres tight and then theres so tight you squeak when you walk.

Yup, my 2 litre 130bhp diesel mondeo does just under 60mpg. That's better than either of my bikes.

[Dave20046]

Yup, my 2 litre 130bhp diesel mondeo does just under 60mpg. That's better than either of my bikes.
Where can I get a car like this?! My golf does about 30-35mpg and I use it every day for work.

[speedplay]

Yup, my 2 litre 130bhp diesel mondeo does just under 60mpg. That's better than either of my bikes.

Where can I get a car like this?! My golf does about 30-35mpg and I use it every day for work.


Wyrdness has answered your question Dave.

I had the honda accord 2.2 ictdi sport for a while too and that went so well you forgot it was a diesel £60 to fill it up and 600 miles later was filling it up again!!

[Dave20046]

I might have to look into this come insurance renewal time.

[ophic]

you can buy proper kit to make biodiesel from waste fat. It's a fair old investment, but it pays for itself if you get free waste oil from local restaurants. My mate also sells fresh veg oil, so collects and replaces the old drums and makes profit on both ends of the deal. I'd probably buy fuel off him... but I keep buying petrol motors :rolleyes:

[barwel1992]

Where can I get a car like this?! My golf does about 30-35mpg and I use it every day for work.

lol my dads saab does 60mpg+ and thats from a 1.9 twin turbo with 190bhp

and theres lots of powerful cars that are economical

[Stu]

£60 to fill it up and 600 miles later was filling it up again!!
But that's 45mpg, or at best 50 mpg based on today's prices - hardly the 60mpg bandied about.

[Well Oiled]

You can run an old indirect injection, mechanical fuel pump diesel car on a mix of diesel and veg oil. I've known people go as far as 50/50. The injectors have big holes and work at lower pressure so they aren't as susceptible to blockage. Having said that you'd still need to clean them if you don't want the power to start dropping off after a while.

Using veg oil (or even proper biodiesel) at more than a few % plays havoc with modern common rail injection systems. That's why any fuel containing more than 7% bio content doesn't meet the standard for forecourt fuel (EN 590) and, unless the car's designed for it, any warranty will probably be void.

[speedplay]

But that's 45mpg, or at best 50 mpg based on today's prices - hardly the 60mpg bandied about.


If you saw how it was driven (as it was a company car) you would be amazed it even got that.

My mpg display on the car was showing 59.9mpg this morning.
Close enough to 60 for me ;)

[Sir Trev]

My mate Glenn runs an ancient 1.7td Cavalier on a mix of veg oil and diseasal. He replaces his filters regularly and has no problems. He's considered bio but like others above he's found investing in the kit is not really economical unless you're doing starship mileage. Bit like the LPG kit I have on my car really - not worth it unless you do a reasonable number of miles (unless you buy it ready-converted as I did!!).

Oddly enough, on the topic of duty, the garage that is right now fettling my sick (LPG can be fickle!!!) car uses a space heater that runs on waste engine oil. Bit messy and the gunge needs cleaning out every day but it's cheap to run, even though they have to pay duty on it. You'd have thought that recycling a waste product would be encouraged!!

[Stu]

My mpg display on the car was showing 59.9mpg this morning.
Close enough to 60 for me ;)
Have you ever checked how accurate it is? :???:
My mate Glenn runs on...diseasal. wow what's that? ;)
Oddly enough, on the topic of duty, the garage that is right now fettling my sick (LPG can be fickle!!!) car uses a space heater that runs on waste engine oil. Bit messy and the gunge needs cleaning out every day but it's cheap to run, even though they have to pay duty on it. You'd have thought that recycling a waste product would be encouraged!!
Can't they just claim to be disposing of the waste oil & that the heat is an unwelcome side effect - I doubt an incinerator pays heating fuel duty ;)

[speedplay]

Have you ever checked how accurate it is? :???:


I do set the trip computer every time I fill up and do a rough working out and they both seem to match, so I guess its only as accurate as my mileometer and trip counter and the meter on the diesel pump:confused:.

How would you check it other than this?

[Berlin]

i thought everyone knew, illegal though.

Not illegal.

You can use up to 2500 litres of Veg oil per year without paying duty. If you use 2501 litres you have to pay duty on ALL of it. But exactly how they know you've used this is unclear as there is no requirement to record how much you use.

Diesel engines run fine on up to a 70/30 mix (veg/diesel) any higher than that and you'll need to go for a twin tank set up so the engine starts on diesel and converts to veg when hot. Veg is a notoriously bad starter.

And Makro is currently the cheapes oil (sunflower is best) at 48p/litre in 25 litre drums

I run a 50/50 mix in the van and it actually runs BETTER than on standard diesel! Smoother and quieter!

Loads of info here...

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=50

C

[Bedhead]

The Ford tdci diesels aren't supposed to be very compatible with bio-diesel and you certainly shouldn't try to run them on cooking oil. I've heard (& do your research before trying this) that Merc diesels will run happily on any oil, including chip fat, so long as it's filtered.

Merc diesels use an inline injector pump, look at the injector pipes all lined up in a row, most bosch rotary diesel pumps are OK on cooking oil/bio, Lucas/CAV can be a bit funny with cooking oil.

Don't use it in anything common rail, it'll kill the HP pump and injectors.

I ran my old Renault Extra on 50/50 mix for a couple of years, stank like a chip shop but went fine. Anything with an XUD engine in it will be less clattery on mix/bio.

Find your local biodiesel seller and buy 20 quids worth, get a reciept and keep it in the car, to show the revenue boys.

Change the filter every 6 months and every so often stick some fuel system cleaner in it, it'll be fine.:D

[Puppie]

i run my pajero on veg oil.

fitted a fuel heater to warm the oil before and after it goes through the filter.

in summer i can run 100%, in winter i drop to 50/50 as its a bugger to start otherwise :grin2

When the law changed, veg oil in the supermarkets doubled in price overnight.

Car does run smoother/quieter on veg oil though.

Next, get diesel generate, have a chat with local chippy, then electricity is free !! :grin2

[jimmy-james]

My VW T4 runs a treat on it and 2500 litres a year is allowed tax free. I stopped using it because it wasn't worth the hassle of filling up in supermarket car parks and all the supermarkets near me are as expensive for veg oil as they are for diesel. Shame though because the engine ran better and had more power with it.

[DanAbnormal]

My bike once run on irn-bru.

[Owenski]

mates dad runs his ford maveric on gallon drums of the stuff. his driveway is a state from all the spilt stuff but he too has saved a fortune.
Needs to be a certain type of diesil and you need to change the filter frequently IIRC

[beabert]

Not illegal.

You can use up to 2500 litres of Veg oil per year without paying duty. If you use 2501 litres

Been said twice once by me :p

[Girth]

Does this mean i can cook my chips in diesel?

[DarrenSV650S]

Does this mean i can cook my chips in diesel?
Petrol is better. The trick is to get the pan as hot as possible before adding the petrol

[punyXpress]

60 posts, & nothing from petevtwin650 - the only one of us who knows how a bike runs on this stuff!

[punyXpress]

[QUOTE=Richie;2113835]
Am now going to shut up. ;-)
a fully fuled bike...is good

Hey! Richie - hope you really did put your bike away for the winter. ;)

[dirtydog]

LOL I remember that!!
Thought you were kidding me until you started pouring it in your van.
That was the day you took Mr VT and me to Guildford when you were sorting my Walton on Thames house out!


Ha, ha yeah I used to get some right funny looks in Tescos car parks emptying 10-20 litre bottles into my transit, I then would normally drive over to the recycling bit in the same carpark and stick them in for recycling!


i
Next, get diesel generate, have a chat with local chippy, then electricity is free !! :grin2

If your local chippy is getting rid of loads of used oil then he's a crap chippy! I ran a chippy for about 6 years and only actually disposed of 20 litres in that entire time and that was only becuase there was something wrong with it and it kept foaming up.

[Stu]

My bike once run on irn-bru.
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

???
:smt102

[Stu]

I do set the trip computer every time I fill up and do a rough working out and they both seem to match, so I guess its only as accurate as my mileometer and trip counter and the meter on the diesel pump:confused:.

How would you check it other than this?
Good enough for me :D
I don't remember checking much myself on the rare occasion I've had a trip computer. Wouldn't put it past the manufacturers to deliberately lie to you, like they do with speedometers to make you think their cars are efficient.

[FlyinCustard]

i bought a corolla 2ltr diesel for £350 with a years mot n i've been runnin it on 50/50 veg oil and diesel. I never knew motoring could be as cheap as this. It runs better with veg oil in it than just diesel

[speedplay]

Good enough for me :D
I don't remember checking much myself on the rare occasion I've had a trip computer. Wouldn't put it past the manufacturers to deliberately lie to you, like they do with speedometers to make you think their cars are efficient.


The only reason I did check it was to see if they were indeed exagerating about figures.

Now I've had the car a while I tend to trust the trip computer.

I took it oop north (for here) last weekend and took it really steady, didnt use cruise control and filled it with BP ultimate diesel by mistake and got 61.6MPG :)

I'm going to be blocking off the EGR valve soon (as mentioned on the car forum) as its supposed to increase MPG by a few more miles too :)

[beabert]

I'm going to be blocking off the EGR valve soon (as mentioned on the car forum) as its supposed to increase MPG by a few more miles too

You will fail emission test, the egr lowers the combustion temperature to lower So2 levels.

[Alpinestarhero]

Oh yeah I don't thnk it works on the newer common rail diesels


that track 800 i was talkin about in another thread, the bloke ran it on peanut oil at first. you can run 'em on veggie oils etc, but they need modification

[speedplay]

You will fail emission test, the egr lowers the combustion temperature to lower So2 levels.

I said blocking, not removing totally ;)

As its a little rubber hose that feeds it I think a decent sized bulldog (or even medical) clip will go a long way to solving that problem ;)