View Full Version : Spelling and grammar
barwel1992
07-12-09, 09:52 PM
Right ok this thread to all the people that consistently moan about spelling, be it text speak or just miss spelling of words and even grammar. Well to be polite it’s getting on my T*Ts, fair enough i know I’m exceptionally bad but sorry i’m not prepared to go out of my way to make my spelling better for the few of you that moan.... I don’t come on a forum in my leisure time to be told that my spelling s*cks , thanks for telling me but i know i have been trying to deal with it for many years to no real avail. If i wanted to be moaned at and told about it constantly i would go back to school....
And I’m afraid to say you would be horrified to see my hand writing but luckily for you, you don’t have to see it.
And thank you to those that seem to stick up for me/others when the time is right, also thank you to those that have given me spellcheckers to use with IE but sometimes it’s just not possible to use them EG at collage (user restrictions) or someone else’s pc as the don’t generally want programs that they don’t need.
This thread is just to make it known that I KNOW I CARNT SPELL and you don’t need to tell me because i already know!! and i’m sorry but i can’t do anything about it without taking years of graft and going back to day one of school.
Here is some info on what i have DYSLEXIA (http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-dyslexia/adults-and-business/what-is-dyslexia.html)
PS i used word to right this.
FYI i dont want this thread full of rubish
thanks Dan
Gotta agree here. I can see it from both sides - I find it really annoying, but I've learned to relax and stop being pedantic about it. I agree some posts on the forum are (or have been) a bit txt speak and hard to understand because of the lack of punctuation, however Barwel's are not amongst these - they are reasonably clear and easy to make sense of.
Give the guy a break and chill out.
Spiderman
07-12-09, 10:00 PM
Barwell, if you use Opera 10 it has a spell checker built into it as standard, nothing to download and add. Just make sure you switch the standard dictionary to English UK from the pre-set US version.
That, of course, is if you want to spell check all your posts.
I've made my feeling about spelling made clear a number of times before so i'm not gonna say it again. Suffice to say ive warned people about their constant picking people up on it in the past.
Text speak drives me crazy! That is just sheer laziness. :smt093
Words spelled wrongly due to dyslexia is a different matter. That is unfortunate for the person suffering from it, and beyond their control.
dizzyblonde
07-12-09, 10:03 PM
I can read your posts barwel. I understand why you make the mistakes, my brother is dyslexic, so I'm not ignorant.
However the thing that gets up my nostrils is Txt speak, as I find it difficult to read. I acquired an English Language A level once upon a time, even I make mistakes lately...but then I'm getting further away from the age of 30, so I blame senility ;-).
barwel1992
07-12-09, 10:04 PM
cheers for the replys all
and spidey i would use opera but i carn use it on the collage pc's or my gf's lap top (dosent want it full of junk) i have a spell check on my pc now thogh :)
and i do try and stay away from txt speak unless i dont have a clue how to spell the word then i some time slip one in there tends to be U more than any other
I too suffer, but I said "I do" so it's all my fault.
No I too have dyslexia
joking aside, I've downloaded that ABC with the tick under it in the top right part of where you reply to a thread and it goes through simple questions.
as for grammar, OK I'm crap, no really I am.
and too All, lighten up, it is very nearly Christmas. Good will to all men.
(sexiest I know.)
Also I a bad boy as I always use trailing dots, well mostly.
Spiderman
07-12-09, 10:09 PM
Text speak drives me crazy! That is just sheer laziness. :smt093
Totally agree with that. i posted on the org last week from my new blackbery and realised that cos i was using a mobile by defaulti was using text speak when there was no need to, so went back and wrote it out properly.
cheers for the replys all
and spidey i would use opera but i carn use it on the collage pc's or my gf's lap top (dosent want it full of junk) i have a spell check on my pc now thogh :)
Spell check and everything else apart, Opera rules over IE, tell her to try it for herself but give it at least a week or 2 and i promise you she wont go back to IE. No one who ha tried Opera against it ever has from my experience.
TheOnlyNemesis
07-12-09, 10:10 PM
lrn2spell XD
dizzyblonde
07-12-09, 10:14 PM
Also I a bad boy as I always use trailing dots, well mostly.
lol...that'll be me then:smt043
Ditto with the text speak.
Regarding spelling I must admit I spell check most of my posts if Im unsure of something within it but thats the OCD in me!! lol I would never correct someone's spelling in a post as I think that would be rude. So long as its in context and understandable then I dont think it matters.
I do however think that punctuation matters. It can be really hard to read a post if its just one constant sentence.
trailing dots...
wind me up...
when put after every sentence...
makes things appear very whimsical...
i'm going to sleep now...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................
yorkie_chris
07-12-09, 10:38 PM
sorry i’m not prepared to go out of my way to make my spelling better
So if you can't be *rsed to use a spellchecker, and let's face it with one coming bundled in with free web browsers like mozilla firefox it is plain laziness, then why should anyone be bothered to reply?
While I have sympathy for your disability, I have no sympathy for laziness.
It's a well known fact that I can't spell the word that sounds 'manoovers' and I'm hoping to convert the English speaking world to my much more sensible way than that French rubbish 'manoeuvres'. Oh $hit, I've spelled it right after all;)
Ditto with the text speak.
Regarding spelling I must admit I spell check most of my posts if Im unsure of something within it
And then you went and spoilt it all by omitting the semicolon between "spelling" and "I", and the apostrophe in "I'm" :D
Ignore me, I'm a pedant of the worst kind.
So if you can't be *rsed to use a spellchecker, and let's face it with one coming bundled in with free web browsers like mozilla firefox it is plain laziness, then why should anyone be bothered to reply?
While I have sympathy for your disability, I have no sympathy for laziness.
for dyslexic people, its hard to do. So whilst ultimately it might be lazy, its virtually impossible to keep up with what is sometimes a fast moving forum, whilst concentrating on making sure each word is spelled correctly, even with the aid of a spellchecker. It would make every post take half an hour. Whilst you or I do it naturally and quickly, and the spell checker might only highlight one in fifty words, for him it might highlight one in two, and some words can be spelled several ways.
This place should be fun and involving for dyslexic people too. As long as he makes sense and can be understood, what's the problem? And if he doesn't, then ask him to clarify.
yorkie_chris
07-12-09, 11:29 PM
I don't really mind that he can't spell, what I mind is the fact that he said he doesn't want to make the effort.
This place should be fun and involving for dyslexic people too. As long as he makes sense and can be understood, what's the problem? And if he doesn't, then ask him to clarify.
+1
For what it's worth Barwel, i've always been able to understand your posts. Some folk seem to think the org doubles up as a giant spelling bee.
Personully, I cannae spel eethir: but am nought dislexik!
Spiderman
07-12-09, 11:34 PM
no, he said he shouldn't HAVE TO make the effort to get it perfect if it can be understood by us all.
YC, i could accuse you of the same thing almost but in reverse...taking the time to miss-spell swears so they get past the swear filter when you could easily choose something else. ;)
Lets all just let the little things go is the key, the big things that really need pointing out fair enough but a word here and a word there between online friends, whats the big deal? :)
Lets all just let the little things go is the key, the big things that really need pointing out fair enough but a word here and a word there between online friends, whats the big deal? :)
+1
Dave20046
07-12-09, 11:40 PM
Easily translatable text is only a right click away with the right addons for your browser........
...
...
...
Sid Squid
07-12-09, 11:43 PM
But it does matter.
Anyway I'll quote myself from one of the stickies at the top of T&T:
Write intelligibly. This is no comment at all on anybody's level of education and literary skill, but if we can't read it our willingness to assist will be of no use at all.
My overall feeling on the subject: It's my responsibility to make myself understood, it is incumbent upon me to make what I write easily understandable, if you don't understand me then it is my failing.
Know what? I think the reverse is true too.
We have a wonderful language, it's one of the main things that separates us from grunting animals, it can have nuance and finesse, it can be succinct or even plain terse, or it can be verbose and floral, it can be gloriously communicative, or it can be vandalised and stunted.
Which would you choose? What would actually want for yours?
PS. I suffer from lysdexia* too - it's a sorry, sorry excuse for not trying.
* Did you see what I did there? Ain't language fun!
PPS I screw it up only too often myself, mea culpa!
My defence: Making a mistake is oh-so-different from not caring.
dizzyblonde
07-12-09, 11:48 PM
Sir Sidney..I love your new signature
ooops off topic :-)
Sid Squid
07-12-09, 11:52 PM
Meandering OT just for a moment: Which bit?
appollo1
08-12-09, 12:40 AM
YC, i could accuse you of the same thing almost but in reverse...taking the time to miss-spell swears so they get past the swear filter when you could easily choose something else.
now that really annoys me as i did that in a recent post where i was having a good old moan and i got a 5 point warning fine whatever the telling off smack on the hand thing is. yet i still see people doing it. :mad:
nobody is perfect when it comes to spelling and everyone on hear shooed be reely patient and understanding but i do believe that as most people are using a keybored of sum sort them there is know excuse for dooing text speek. :rolleyes:
some people on here (yes me included) are getting on a bit and their eyesight is not too good, yes me again so trying to read text speak and work out what it is meant to say does take a bit of time ;)
Mighty Boosh
08-12-09, 12:48 AM
Mr Barwell,
I don't find your posts inelligable at all.
As long as you get your thoughts across i don't see a problem.
I think for those with dyslexia the written word is a bit like a foriengh (sp) language. A little understanding goes a long way.
I don't see why you should use a spell checker before you post.
:)
speaking as another dyslexic, all i can say is 'yes most dyslexic people are lazy but also very intelligent'. why cant people just accept that dyslexics cant spell? would any of you go and tell a coloured person they are an 'N' word. no you would not as it's not polite. well you are doing the exact same to a dyslexic telling them they cant spell.
No one who ha tried Opera against it ever has from my experience.
I tried Opera & don't like it as much as Firefox. (Which also has a spellchecker built in).
To the OP I've stood up for you in the past, but very nearly pulled you up lately about how you put r in the middle of words (carn't & thorght) Am I right in thinking that's how you speak as opposed to being wholly down to your dyslexia?
beabert
08-12-09, 01:06 AM
thanks Dan
Oh, you've pinched my name as well as my bike!
barwel1992
08-12-09, 01:07 AM
now when righting the first post it took me almost 45min WITH a spell checker to get it to a reasonable standard and in my view (for me) thats about the best i can do as far as grammar/ spelling is concerned
and i also knew that "sorry i’m not prepared to go out of my way to make my spelling better" would throw up posts like YC's.
Now YC i didn't say i wouldn't try did i, so stop getting all defensive and read it carefully, i sead i wouldn't go out of my way, meaning I'm not going to make sure its perfect But i will use spell checker IF i can and will make sure it makes sense to the best of my abilities.
as sead i didn't come hear for a lesson on how to spell i came hear to enjoy my self.
also if i wasn't prepaid to make the effort then why would i post this thread in the first place? i could have just told people that questioned my spelling to go jump. Did i ? No i didn't i tried to take on board what people where saying, i downloaded spell checkers that were recommended to me, the one i didn't like the other is ok but haven't used it much as I'm not at home for 3-4 days and I'm using some one elses PC.
i don't want you to take this the wrong way YC but do you understand where I'm coming from?
and thanks for the reply every one :) some interesting views on the topic rely.
and i think just to add some more information about my dyslexia
i was only diagnosed with it in year 11, now my mum and dad paid for the test because the schools didn't think i had it because i didn't suffer from all the symptoms, as it turns out i have pretty severe dyslexia that affects my righting and spelling also putting pen to paper and been able to structure sentences, at the time of the test in year 11 i got the following results
(average for some one without dyslexia is 50 based on age)
reading was 52 (average)
righting was 28 (year 6 standard)
spelling was 33 (year 7-8 )
problem solving/working out patterns and stuff was 93 (way above average)
maths 49 (i think)
thats all i can remember will have to get my Analise out and have a look again, but the man that did the test thought it was strange that i vary so much as most people are at one level where as i was all over the scale.
PS test costs £300+
sorry for the long post and just to prove a point there were 42 wrong spellings and punctuation in that and im sure the forum spell checker isn't that good.
EDDIT stu no i don't have a accent the way i spell is finectical well how it sounds to me and i do have a tendency to add letter where they are not needed like "R" "E" and geting bd mixed up
I tried Opera & don't like it as much as Firefox. (Which also has a spellchecker built in).
To the OP I've stood up for you in the past, but very nearly pulled you up lately about how you put r in the middle of words (carn't & thorght) Am I right in thinking that's how you speak as opposed to being wholly down to your dyslexia?
most dyslexics write as they would talk so yes it is down mostly to his dyslexia. his fingers are going faster than his brain can catch up. he does not even see the 'r' he is putting in. for instance i sometimes canot see the difference between from and form until someone points it out to me, then wham out it pops. ''i had to fill this from in the other day for my rota at work''. without being dyslexic you have no idea what it is like and constantly reminding someone who suffers from dyslexia that they cant spell is like rubbing their face in it. so what if we cant spell whats the big deal?
barwel1992
08-12-09, 01:17 AM
^ you are exactly right, now i do like to try and get better and over the last copple of year's i have i used to right in block, no full stops no paragraphs nothing, just a wall of Text
what i find when im trying to right a answere that need some thorght in it my spelling goes right down the drain its like my brain carnt proces both things at once
and to be brutaly honest it makes me just give up, makes you feal like i carnt be botherd any more as i just end up going round and round
xXBADGERXx
08-12-09, 01:19 AM
I`ve been able to understand you dude and have stuck up for you but what I cannot , and will not abide , is your love of Carbon parts for your SV ;)
By the way Sid , this SV in the forest with the flat tire , is it a Curvy or a Pointy ?
xXBADGERXx
08-12-09, 01:22 AM
^ you are exactly right, now i do like to try and get better and over the last copple of year's i have i used to right in block, no full stops no paragraphs nothing, just a wall of Text
what i find when im trying to right a answere that need some thorght in it my spelling goes right down the drain its like my brain carnt proces both things at once
and to be brutaly honest it makes me just give up, makes you feal like i carnt be botherd any more as i just end up going round and round
I often read my posts back to myself afterwards and have to go and correct mistakes , my writing is totally different from my Keyboard musings and rantings . I pride myself on the ability to write in , what is considered , a correct manner .
Just that , on the internet , I have big hands and a small laptop keyboard and the need to type as quickly as possible so I can avert my eyes from the small screen and watch the Tv or pick up an Xbox pad and destroy some more Space Invaders or something :p
EDDIT stu no i don't have a accent the way i spell is finectical well how it sounds to me and i do have a tendency to add letter where they are not needed like "R" "E" and geting bd mixed up
most dyslexics write as they would talk so yes it is down mostly to his dyslexia. his fingers are going faster than his brain can catch up. he does not even see the 'r' he is putting in. for instance i sometimes canot see the difference between from and form until someone points it out to me, then wham out it pops. ''i had to fill this from in the other day for my rota at work''. without being dyslexic you have no idea what it is like and constantly reminding someone who suffers from dyslexia that they cant spell is like rubbing their face in it. so what if we cant spell whats the big deal?
OK thanks for helping me know how it works.
& thanks Dan for taking the time to explain to us & your effort.
For the record, with my typing on my laptop at home it misses out so many letters & spaces that I would hate to post without a spellchecker. Firefox FTW
barwel1992
08-12-09, 01:34 AM
I`ve been able to understand you dude and have stuck up for you but what I cannot , and will not abide , is your love of Carbon parts for your SV ;)
By the way Sid , this SV in the forest with the flat tire , is it a Curvy or a Pointy ?
lmao :D
and yes you do constantly stick up for me when it comes to spelling :)
and your forum posting is not propper ??? pffft seems prety damn good to me, and you play space invaders on a xbox360 :smt011
and STU
no problem :)
if it could help others then i dont mind puting the time in
and i dont have a problem with typing on laptops and so on because i have small hands just mind carnt keep up with fingers most of the time :D
EDIT just in case some one decides to get there kids a test (its free when there younger) be prepaird for the schools to do nothing, we contacted the exam boards and i ended up not wright at all in any exam i did it all on a lap top because of my righting
for the record, i use the spell checker in firefox but its crap, i still have to go looking for the correct spelling on google sometimes. my dyslexia is mostly 'comprehension dyslexia' although i also suffer from 'word dyslexia' but only mildly, i also have a form of 'colour blindness' which believe me is weird. i have to use pink overlays to read books properly and if i use blue it's like tripping all the words pop off the page and start spinning around the word i'm focusing on at the time.
for years i thought this was normal until a lecturer noticed my spelling and comprehension at collage.
Wish I could type correctly as well some times, i miss the ending off words and it just doesn't make sense sometimes, I proof read emails at least three times and normally there it at least one mistake in there still that I miss. it ****es me off really badly that I just can't type them right. I'm not dyslexic (well I don't think I am) but tbh I wish I was to excuse some of the really poor posts and emails I have made in my time. I hate text speak but miss spelling I have no problem with and most of the time I can phonetically read it (made a google search of phonetically to get the spelling lol)
EDIT!!!!!! - I just read this again after posting - read it twice before posting and I spotted two errors after posting
EDIT a second time - grammar error this time
Edit - as above - doh
Wish I could type correctly as well some times, i miss the ending off words and it just doesn't make sense sometimes, I proof read emails at least three times and normally there it at least one mistake in there still that I miss. it ****es me off really badly that I just can't type them right. I'm not dyslexic (well I don't think I am) but tbh I wish I was to excuse some of the really poor posts and emails I have made in my time. I hate text speak but miss spelling I have no problem with and most of the time I can phonetically read it (made a google phonetically to get the spelling lol)
EDIT!!!!!! - I just read this again after posting - read it twice before posting and I spotted two errors after posting
EDIT a second time - grammar error this time
were you aggressive at school? is your hand writing terrible? do you have to realllly concentrate on how to spell things when you are typing or writing?
barwel1992
08-12-09, 01:59 AM
intresting if aggression comes in to it ? as i was bullied a bit when i was in year 7-8 and ended up geting in to a few scraped well 9fights to be precise and i dident instigate any of them
hence why i moved school at the end of year 10
PS never use it as an excuse, wheres thin after a while i only ever tell any one if like on hear i was asked why my spelling was so bad
xXBADGERXx
08-12-09, 02:00 AM
So is it the same if we use a blue coloured font on here Bibio ? I can`t help but notice you have a Blue Smurf as your avatar and am now suspecting you of using it to get a bit "Trippy"
barwel1992
08-12-09, 02:03 AM
^ lol good comment
never had to use those sheets (colored laminate) but my dads colour blined and i have to say its strange to see hear what colour he thinks it is he only has the problems with dark colours thogh
were you aggressive at school? is your hand writing terrible? do you have to realllly concentrate on how to spell things when you are typing or writing?
Aggressive at school - not really
hand writing - worse than a doctors - I write things the wrong way round as well, s's and 5's for example
Spelling - always been bad, if it has more than six letters and I don't use it all the time I have to look it up
And in this post before posting it I have spelt the following words wrong:
worng
Agressive
exmaple
realy
So is it the same if we use a blue coloured font on here Bibio ? I can`t help but notice you have a Blue Smurf as your avatar and am now suspecting you of using it to get a bit "Trippy"
fraid not my friend it has to be blue background with black text. :drink:
^ lol good comment
never had to use those sheets (colored laminate) but my dads colour blined and i have to say its strange to see hear what colour he thinks it is he only has the problems with dark colours thogh
i'm not colour blind, i have for a word 'coloured text' blindness :smt107 its weird. the first time i was tested it freaked me out as i thought i was having a 'flashback'. but it has made all the difference where before i could read something it would not go into the brain for love nor money, but when using the overlays it goes in and i can understand what is written. another thing with the overlays is i can read whole pyrograph's quickly where before i had to read one word at a time.
xXBADGERXx
08-12-09, 02:16 AM
fraid not my friend it has to be blue background with black text. :drink:
So basically , you are only ever going to come cross that scenario reading magazines . I have had a similar issue with Red text on Green backgrounds , or was it the other way around ? Anyhooo , I haven`t put it down to anything medical , but the words just jumped and jarred as I tried to read them so I have an idea of that which you are explaining .
davepreston
08-12-09, 02:19 AM
he he he my 2 pence time, you will see from this post that a, my spelling is atrosous and b, i can bearly speak english let alone write it
i am a paddy, a dyslexic paddy at that ,so i dont give a carp how i write especially on this form, now here's the but
But what i have found when reciving and giving advice (bad advice is my speciality) is sectioning ,this i have found to clear up matter emencely
plowsie who is a mate yet enjoys pointing it out constantly comments on my affection for 1,2,3's and spaces eg
1. this dont make it harder
2, its easyier to understand
4, and most important i dont speak text
this makes even my rollocks spelling and grammer easyier for others to comprehend
quick one for the lads also aflicked ,my brain goes faster than hands which is why i mainly use letters from the next word in the previous one if ya get what i mean not the other way round
one final point and this is slightly confusing for me is why being dyslexic do you use text speak ,as i find it even harder to comprehend due to my bd and pq issues
now thats not a jib just a honest question which i would actually like to hear the answer too
sir dave of preston, jester of the pennie massive ,commander of the of the royal sarchasim and chief executioner of heathen southerners (and the odd yorkshireman)
barwel1992
08-12-09, 02:20 AM
i'm not colour blind, i have for a word 'coloured text' blindness :smt107 its weird. the first time i was tested it freaked me out as i thought i was having a 'flashback'. but it has made all the difference where before i could read something it would not go into the brain for love nor money, but when using the overlays it goes in and i can understand what is written. another thing with the overlays is i can read whole pyrograph's quickly where before i had to read one word at a time.
wow thats strange never knew that mind you i dont have a problem with reading so i asume they dident bother testing me with them :/
all i can say is our mind works in strange, slightly retarded ways (not ment in the derogative way)
barwel1992
08-12-09, 02:26 AM
hmm daveP i think i find TXT speak easy because my brain dosent have a problem keeping up with my hands where as wrighting like this it does, now as you sead its your hands that carnt keep with your brain so the shorter words would mean your brain works even less making it faster so you hands strugle more to keep up ?
ohh and i end up wrighting random words because my brain isent keeping up and may hands are going to fast so i will end up with somthing like "the its" in stead of "the thing" no idea why but some times i will end up with the its thing lol
i'm the same with txt speak Dave (i cant understand the bleedin stuff but i'm 42), i would rather type as i speak even though my typing skills are quite good my brain still goes faster than my fingers can go. but some (younger) people can type a lot faster than me so their fingers are going faster than their brain even faster if they use txt speak.
barwel1992
08-12-09, 02:28 AM
seems that both of you bibio and dave have faster minds that fingers where i have faster fingers than a mind as i find it hard to construct senteces and end up as i sead with random words
davepreston
08-12-09, 02:37 AM
cheers for that , one other thing i have is when im talking i miss bits of a sentance beacuase in my head its been thought of already (in brain spoken) so im on to the next point before actualy verbally doing it ,
weird but true, it has been describe to me as automatic thinking, a bit like jumping steps in maths and going straight to the answer instead of showing working out (another thing i always do)
barwel1992
08-12-09, 02:48 AM
i do that but i jump words not sentances and then end up not making any sence at all, Pain in the ass aparently when im excited about somthing say geting new parts i get all my sentences mixed up.
and yup allway miss out the working in maths.
do you by any chance speak a lot ? and allways have somthing on your mind like i can try and get to sleep at night but lets say i have decided to fit a GSXR front end, i carnt stop think about what im going to be doing when fitting it untill i do it a bit like OCD.
BanannaMan
08-12-09, 03:29 AM
Today I'm making no comments on spelling. :rolleyes:
And at least one .org'er knows why.
I am pants. :(
That is all.
beabert
08-12-09, 04:04 AM
Reminded me of this
My theory is that you should find this hard to understand, where people with out the condition will not?
Acocdrnig to an elgnsih unviesitry sutdy the oredr of letetrs in a wrod dosen’t mttaer, the olny thnig thta’s iopmrantt is that the frsit and lsat ltteer of eevry word is in the crcreot ptoision. The rset can be jmbueld and one is stlil able to raed the txet wiohtut dclftfuiiy.
xXBADGERXx
08-12-09, 04:54 AM
Seen that so many times on Facebook that I instantly know what it is without even reading it , yet I recall , upon reading it the first time that it took a little while longer to read than normal . It is one of those things that makes you realise that we have pattern recognition but also Fuzzy logic that helps us skirt around issues due to our experience with languages and Text .
I just also noticed that you have added Forum Legend to your avatar picture in a Fuzzy Text as well .
hindle8907
08-12-09, 07:45 AM
Im not dyslexic, But I carnt spell for the life of me, and my punctuation is awful.
I use a spell check most of the time and have no problem with people making spelling mistakes we are not all perfect and each have our own downfalls, and one of mine is English.
I dnt mind txt spk as long as its nt over the top, bt cn understand why some pll dnt like it.
Sid Squid
08-12-09, 07:46 AM
By the way Sid , this SV in the forest with the flat tire , is it a Curvy or a Pointy ?
It's a UK bike, thus does not have tires fitted.
454697819
08-12-09, 08:47 AM
I don't really mind that he can't spell, what I mind is the fact that he said he doesn't want to make the effort.
Common misconception, it is quite typical that it is impossible to notice spelling mistakes in your own work when you have a dyslexia like mine or at with similar traits. Its not laziness, its plain "it would make no difference" if i took 20 minutes to check it or forever.
Anyway, as a fellow dyslexic I know which side of the fence I sit on.
timwilky
08-12-09, 08:54 AM
My opinion for what it is worth.
Text speak (why speak, it is written?) is a total no no. I do not understand it and struggle to read it.
Poor spelling or grammar? I think this is because most of us are not trained keyboard operators and tend to look at the keys and not the screen. Personally, I find proof reading impossible on a screen and read what I think I typed. I therefore rely upon the spell checkers to highlight obvious mistakes. However, as we all know, they are not foolproof.
I would never condemn someone for a spelling or grammar mistake. We have all been guilty of it. DavePreston has his excuse, after all he cannot speak English, despite employment in the British army. You would think we would adopt the training procedures of the French Foreign Legion and force all recruits to learn the language of their new lords and masters;). He in turn could teach us how to drink to excess and remain upright. Or maybe that is all the beer settling in his legs?
Carry on.
Fizzy Fish
08-12-09, 09:04 AM
Personally I don't really mind how people write, or for what reasons.
However the extra effort put in to get something into better shape is always going to make it more like to get read, and therefore get your point across.
It's a UK bike, thus does not have tires fitted.
What if they were imported from the US?
SoulKiss
08-12-09, 09:45 AM
What if they were imported from the US?
UK Customs and Excise would sort it out for you, delay it for a week and then charge you 25% of the cost of the SV for their troubles.
Oh and your mate in the states sticking a "Happy Birthday" sticker on the tank and writing gift on the Customs Form will probably not make much difference...
yorkie_chris
08-12-09, 11:15 AM
Now YC i didn't say i wouldn't try did i, so stop getting all defensive and read it carefully, i sead i wouldn't go out of my way, meaning I'm not going to make sure its perfect But i will use spell checker IF i can and will make sure it makes sense to the best of my abilities.
i don't want you to take this the wrong way YC but do you understand where I'm coming from?
Making sure it is intelligible to the best of your abilities is what any reasonable person would consider making an effort for the benefit of all. If you're doing that, problem solved.
And at least one .org'er knows why.
I am pants. :(
That is all.
Because you're a Yank?
I'd happily sit down over a pint with anyone and have a conversation, either face to face or via this virtual world. I couldn't give a monkey's toss about your spelling or your grammer, just glad of the company and the chat/banter. Let's face it, it's more about the content than the ';*/,.\... and is the;'~'# in the right place.
That said, if someone feels the need to be fussy, then so be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over that either.
Eat, drink and be merry... and live life to the full.
Luckypants
08-12-09, 11:57 AM
But it does matter.
Anyway I'll quote myself from one of the stickies at the top of T&T:
My overall feeling on the subject: It's my responsibility to make myself understood, it is incumbent upon me to make what I write easily understandable, if you don't understand me then it is my failing.
Know what? I think the reverse is true too.
We have a wonderful language, it's one of the main things that separates us from grunting animals, it can have nuance and finesse, it can be succinct or even plain terse, or it can be verbose and floral, it can be gloriously communicative, or it can be vandalised and stunted.
Which would you choose? What would actually want for yours?
PS. I suffer from lysdexia* too - it's a sorry, sorry excuse for not trying.
* Did you see what I did there? Ain't language fun!
PPS I screw it up only too often myself, mea culpa!
My defence: Making a mistake is oh-so-different from not caring.
I think Sid makes an excellent point here, one which has been largely ignored by the 'spelling and grammar don't count' camp. To make yourself understood, use of good English is important. Sid's point about it being up to the poster to make their post intelligible is spot on IMO.
I have been guilty in the past of picking people up on their use of English and do not regret it. If people are not aware of their failure to communicate clearly, how will they manage to improve? I have sympathy for those with dyslexia, my son has it, but I have never allowed him to use it as an excuse for not writing clearly. Just take a little more time to write something that makes sense.
ArtyLady
08-12-09, 12:46 PM
Good for you! :smt023 - some people are very rude indeed :eek: - I would never pick up on someones spelling or grammar because you can never rule out that they may have dyslexia and besides that it's petty and picky! My OH is dyslexic and even when he is doing his paperwork and asks me how to spell easy words ie clean or door) I always help him.
I'm lucky - English and Literature is my forté but I still make spelling and grammar mistakes sometimes! I'm dyscalculic and wouldn't be happy if anyone took the pee out of me for that (I'll bet your better at maths than I could ever hope to be!!)
gettin2dizzy
08-12-09, 12:52 PM
Regardless of dyslexia; reading and writing is a skill, not an ability.
Regular reading and a concerted effort at correct grammar and spelling is the only way to ever improve.
Frickin' read FTW :thumbsup:
not everyone suffers from the same type or severity of dyslexia. DP uses a lot of numbered lists - this is a great way of making things clear. Likewise, Barwel separates his sentences into new lines or paragraphs - this also makes his posts clear.
We all skip words occasionally when excited or distracted. Most of us won't even notice we're doing it, as its right in our head. I don't think this has anything to do with dyslexia.
I can figure out most txt speak, l33tspeak is a lot worse, but even if you work out what the words are meant to be, you usually get scuppered by the lack of punctuation. Punctuation is more important than right/write or your/you're/yore or their/there/they're imho. It doesn't have to be correct punctuation either - a new line can be just as effective as a full stop in separating sentences - and yes I know I should use semicolons not dashes :cool:
Good English is important in certain critical areas only, usually where there would be ambiguity otherwise. If the meaning is clear, its not essential.
I've not read all the posts ... and certainly wouldn't pick on someone for being dyslexic, or not being great at grammar or language SO LONG AS THEY TRY ...
The OP on here seems like a jolly nice chap ... and all I would ask is that he tries his hardest, to make each item he writes as correct as possible !!!
Not for me .... or the other posters on here ........ but for himself, and his future careers, etc ....
barwel1992
08-12-09, 01:24 PM
cheers for the replies :)
it seems like the general consensus is as long as it makes sense and is not a jumble of words and i at least try to make it as easy to understand as it can be
now i don't intend to use spell check for the more laid back answered or banter on the forum but i will make the best effort to use spell check on posts that need them EG explaining how to do something or informative posts like this.
and when/ if you meet me in person you wouldent even know im dyslexic
sunshine
08-12-09, 01:41 PM
not everyone suffers from the same type or severity of dyslexia. DP uses a lot of numbered lists - this is a great way of making things clear. Likewise, Barwel separates his sentences into new lines or paragraphs - this also makes his posts clear.
We all skip words occasionally when excited or distracted. Most of us won't even notice we're doing it, as its right in our head. I don't think this has anything to do with dyslexia.
I can figure out most txt speak, l33tspeak is a lot worse, but even if you work out what the words are meant to be, you usually get scuppered by the lack of punctuation. Punctuation is more important than right/write or your/you're/yore or their/there/they're imho. It doesn't have to be correct punctuation either - a new line can be just as effective as a full stop in separating sentences - and yes I know I should use semicolons not dashes :cool:
Good English is important in certain critical areas only, usually where there would be ambiguity otherwise. If the meaning is clear, its not essential.
thats 1337 $p34|{ btw ;)
its great being dyslexic you dont have to worry about spelling people expect you not to be able to spell anyway :D i use firefox auto spell checker FTW, next trick is to actually listen to all them green and red lines under the words.
Ditto as long as they are making sense for the majority of people I cannot see the problem. My dad has very bad dyslexia and spells 90% of his word phonetically (sp) so that we can all understand him
Me - I'm a grade A English Student yet to look at my post you would wonder.
I seemed to be the one that everyone hates - I am the txt speaker. I deal with it 9-5, 5 days a week So I apologise if it slips into my posts. I don't mean to and even if i read it back I know what it says so I don't always see it
Yet I don't remember anyone picking me up for it.
If I were you I would keep doing what you do and ignore the negative comments - you're doing your best.
Spiderman
08-12-09, 02:37 PM
I think Sid makes an excellent point here, one which has been largely ignored by the 'spelling and grammar don't count' camp. To make yourself understood, use of good English is important. Sid's point about it being up to the poster to make their post intelligible is spot on IMO.
And i agree with him too. Language and the way its used can be beautifull and expressive if used well.
If you are asking for tech advice you should make more effort to make your problem easily understood so it can be easily solved. Howver if you're posting in IB about "I ate some cheese" tbh i really aint interested and on top of that i really dont care how you spell it all. It makes no material difference.
And this is a very good point too..
Regardless of dyslexia; reading and writing is a skill, not an ability.
Regular reading and a concerted effort at correct grammar and spelling is the only way to ever improve.
Frickin' read FTW :thumbsup:
It definitely is a skill. I wish i could write better at times. I know i dont write badly and i take my time to choose my words very carefully so there is no ambiguity in what i'm saying however i read things that are worded far more amusingly than i can do and i get jealous and wish i could write like those people. it has nothing to do with my ability to spell or my grammar or use of language tho.
BTW i have an issue with red writing on a blue background like some of you others. I find if i look at the word directly i cant see it and the other words start wandering about trying to get my attention, if i look at thw words from my peripheral vision they behave. Its a weird but amusing sensation when i happens.
Also Ed made a good point a couple pages back about spelling. I too would like to see spellings of certain words made easier and more like they sound. Language does always change and evolve after all.
Barwell - I'm one who picked up on your spelling and I really hope I didn't cause offense. None was intended. I'm a teacher - I can't help it! Feel sorry for me
I'd like to explain a little though, if I may. When i saw you CONSISTENTLY mis-spelling the word 'college' it seemed very clear to me that it was a case of not learning the correct spelling. I cautiously still believe that. There are words that I have to consciously and actively remember how to spell.
Having said that, and now having read many more of your posts, it is also clear to me that you clearly have a problem with many aspects of written language - namely dyslexia. That shows in the INCONSISTENT mis-spellings and poor grammar. Although I find your posts perfectly intelligable if you read carefully.
I know that it is possible to have both conditions - dyslexia and poor spelling. Maybe you have both?
Sorry again. At least you are at college now and hopefully they are recognising your full potential.
davepreston
08-12-09, 07:36 PM
I think Sid makes an excellent point here, one which has been largely ignored by the 'spelling and grammar don't count' camp. To make yourself understood, use of good English is important. Sid's point about it being up to the poster to make their post intelligible is spot on IMO.
I have been guilty in the past of picking people up on their use of English and do not regret it. If people are not aware of their failure to communicate clearly, how will they manage to improve? I have sympathy for those with dyslexia, my son has it, but I have never allowed him to use it as an excuse for not writing clearly. Just take a little more time to write something that makes sense.
i beg to differ my fortunate trousered friend
But what i have found when reciving and giving advice (bad advice is my speciality) is sectioning ,this i have found to clear up matter emencely
plowsie who is a mate yet enjoys pointing it out constantly comments on my affection for 1,2,3's and spaces eg
1. this dont make it harder
2, its easyier to understand
4, and most important i dont speak text
this makes even my rollocks spelling and grammer easyier for others to comprehend
:p victory is mine muwhahahahahahaha
meh who really gives a **** if you don't like it don't read it simple as.
barwel1992
08-12-09, 09:01 PM
messie no offense was taken i asure you of that, and college is one of those words that i never learned to spell obviously i went to college and had to start using the word and to me colage sounds more like how it is spoken to me than college so started spelling it like colage, and the problem i have is when i learn a word it becomes very hard to corect it, i have no idea why that happens but it does
When I first started work in a law office, I had to ask someone to sign a document. It was a statement. I gave it to him, and this bloke looked at me, and went bright red. He didn't say a word, and didn't even pick up the pen, he was too embarrassed. It suddenly occurred to me that this bloke couldn't read or write. To former public school boy me, this came as a great shock - after 42 years of free education, people left school lacking this fundamental ability. I hadn't encountered it before. How does it happen? I don't know - how can anyone go through school for 10 years and not be able to read or write? I'm sure that someone will explain. Messie???
And so it taught me a savage lesson. Never to take anything for granted. I know that some people can't read and write, I've experienced it. Not everyone has a great ability in written English.
I wish people would stop judging others by their own standards.
ArtyLady
08-12-09, 09:30 PM
...
...Never to take anything for granted. I know that some people can't read and write, I've experienced it. Not everyone has a great ability in written English.
I wish people would stop judging others by their own standards.
Two very good points there Ed!
My OH can't read or write very well...I can't fix or rebuild motorcycles like he can (in fact I can't even change the oil!) - we all have our strengths and weaknesses :cool:
...and what about people who don't speak English as a first language? Should we similarly judge them?
No, of course not:rolleyes:
-Ralph-
08-12-09, 09:54 PM
I'll just share a story my old man used to tell me, if you think it's a lot of old carp just ignore it, but it's just something I TRY to remember.
A field commander saw an opportunity to win a battle, but couldn't do it with the troops at his disposal. So he called on the radio
"Send reinforcements, we're going to advance!"
the radio operator at the other end heard
"Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance!"
he laughed, put the radio down and didn't send the reinforcements, the battalion advanced and were slaughtered.
Whose fault? The radio operator for not listening? Or the field commander for not speaking clearly, then clarifying that he had been understood? The radio operator had no reason to question what he heard. The field commander knew he was taking troops into battle who were outnumbered and knew the importance of the instruction.
It is up to you to ensure your posts are as legible as possible, so well done mate for sticking in a spell checker and using it. Even if it doesn't pick up everything, your posts in this thread have been much easier to read.
The spell checker is not always right, earlier on you typed "Prepaid" rather than "Prepared" and I'm guessing the spell checker did that not you, and people can see that, whenever its the right spelling but the wrong word, so don't worry about that.
The spell checker may seem like a pain in the butt now picking up every other word, but as Messie said about learning, you will also learn from the spell checker. Once you have seen the spell checker correct "thogh" many times and replace it with "though", you'll stop mis-spelling it and you'll need the spell checker less and less, so my advice is stick with it.
Milky Bar Kid
08-12-09, 10:06 PM
When I first started work in a law office, I had to ask someone to sign a document. It was a statement. I gave it to him, and this bloke looked at me, and went bright red. He didn't say a word, and didn't even pick up the pen, he was too embarrassed. It suddenly occurred to me that this bloke couldn't read or write. To former public school boy me, this came as a great shock - after 42 years of free education, people left school lacking this fundamental ability. I hadn't encountered it before. How does it happen? I don't know - how can anyone go through school for 10 years and not be able to read or write? I'm sure that someone will explain. Messie???
And so it taught me a savage lesson. Never to take anything for granted. I know that some people can't read and write, I've experienced it. Not everyone has a great ability in written English.
I wish people would stop judging others by their own standards.
+1
mr.anderson
08-12-09, 10:06 PM
I wish people would stop judging others by their own standards.
Spelling is a standard. It is either correct or incorrect.
In a similar way, putting brake fluid into your engine is wrong. 1 does not equal 2.
If I didn't know and I was about to put brake fluid into my engine, I would be pretty pleased if someone pointed it out.
Spelling is a standard. It is either correct or incorrect.
In a similar way, putting brake fluid into your engine is wrong. 1 does not equal 2.
If I didn't know and I was about to put brake fluid into my engine, I would be pretty pleased if someone pointed it out.
As you have a conditional perfect you need a subjunctive.
'If I didn't know and if I were...'
As you have a conditional perfect you need a subjunctive.
'If I didn't know and if I were...'
:winner:
-Ralph-
08-12-09, 10:13 PM
...and what about people who don't speak English as a first language? Should we similarly judge them?
No, of course not:rolleyes:
As someone who is married to one, no we shouldn't. But then my wife ALWAYS uses the spell checker and makes an effort to learn words she has got wrong, or is learning for the first time (been at the hospital the last two days talking to doctors about the inside of my sons gut, so she's learned a few new words!). So if people are making the effort that's all that matters.
Several French friends from University don't speak English properly, despite having spoken it in day to day life now for 15 years, they still have a strong accent and make fundamental grammar mistakes, such as using a plural when a singular is appropriate. One in particular has called me "Collins" for 15 years, and still says "I'm ty-red", when he is tired. I gave up correcting him 10 years ago.
By contrast my wife has been speaking English day to day for about 9 years, and while most people can tell she is foreign, they don't know where from and some don't realise she is not English at all. Some of the French girls I know have also got close to my wife's level of English language competence.
The difference between the two groups is effort and attention to detail! Plain and simple. Those who are getting the language perfect constantly strive to improve and achieve that, those who still sound like Rene from Allo Allo, have got to a level where they are sufficiently understood and are not interested in taking it any further.
ArtyLady
08-12-09, 10:15 PM
Spelling is a standard. It is either correct or incorrect.
...
Well actually no - the English language is quite dynamic and changes all the time (albeit slowly over many years - we no longer say thou and thee and doth (unless you live ooop norf!) we have taken on some American spelling, and what was not acceptable in an academic essay say 10 years ago, is now and new words make their way into the dictionary regularly - but it doesn't matter much...on an internet forum...does it?
The difference between the two groups is effort and attention to detail! Plain and simple. Those who are getting the language perfect constantly strive to improve and achieve that, those who still sound like Rene from Allo Allo, have got to a level where they are sufficiently understood and are not interested in taking it any further.
Ok. You've given an example of the fact that different things are important to different people. Miss Ophic is also foreign and also quite capable of correcting my English! But she doesn't know the first thing about engines. She's capable of learning, but isn't interested - even though it might prove extremely useful.
mr.anderson
08-12-09, 10:24 PM
As you have a conditional perfect you need a subjunctive.
'If I didn't know and if I were...'
Indeed. You have proven my point.
-Ralph-
08-12-09, 10:32 PM
Ok. You've given an example of the fact that different things are important to different people. Miss Ophic is also foreign and also quite capable of correcting my English! But she doesn't know the first thing about engines. She's capable of learning, but isn't interested - even though it might prove extremely useful.
Of course, and if language is not that important to them then fair enough, but they shouldn't be surprised if they are discriminated against when it comes to job applications, etc, as a result of a strong accent or incorrect grammar. My wife saw a marked increase in response to her CV when she took her nationality off the bottom, and a friend with a strong accent has often been upset by irate customers on the phone asking "to be put through to somebody who speaks proper English".
Unlike engine mechanics, language and communication is a core skill for life, and if you are going to live in a foreign country it will usually help to master the language. If you're not bothered, or work in a profession where it's not important, then fair enough. I don't have any problem with those friends who still sound like Rene (sarcastic but you know what I mean), I understand them no problem, I've been listening to it for years.
My wife has to get it right as she has worked in international trade, translation, and now retraining as a secondary French and Spanish teacher, but language is also a bit of a hobby for her.
I don't mind how people spell, as long as it makes half sense to me.
I dislike text speak, a lot.
-Ralph-
08-12-09, 10:40 PM
Having said all that, I was in the hotel restaurant in the Novotel at Heathrow last week and I was chatting to the Chinese restaurant manager, she told me
"Ahhhh worrrr heeeee ten yeeeaa nehhhs weeec"
Translation: "I've worked here ten years next week"
I thought "Sorry, love? You've worked in this restaurant 10 years serving English speaking customers and I'm still straining to understand a word you say? That's just sheer laziness!"
Indeed. You have proven my point.
Aw come on monsieur, I did it only cos you put yourself on a pedestal:D
I had the benefit - or perhaps it wasn't a benefit - of a through grounding in English grammar from the De La Salle brothers, and I got the cane if I got it wrong.
My fave book is probably still 'Middlemarch' by George Eliot, about the social upheavals in a Midlands town - it could even be my home town, Shrewsbury - caused by the great Reform Act 1832. The English is very difficult. But I also like rubbish American crime thrillers where the English is simply terrible.
Takes all sorts to make a world... even with three dots...;)
I'm completely baffled as to why anybody can get so bent out of shape over spelling and grammer on a public forum. It's not a competition, it's not a place of work, it's just a place to visit and talk crap for a bit...isn't it?:-k
I fail at English.
But can still type and speak reasonably well.
My spelling of basic words is terrible.
Only one in 5th year who wasn't allowed to take Higher English. :)
...
ArtyLady
08-12-09, 11:05 PM
I'm completely baffled as to why anybody can get so bent out of shape over spelling and grammer on a public forum. It's not a competition, it's not a place of work, it's just a place to visit and talk crap for a bit...isn't it?:-k
totally agree :)
I'm completely baffled as to why anybody can get so bent out of shape over spelling and grammer on a public forum. It's not a competition, it's not a place of work, it's just a place to visit and talk crap for a bit...isn't it?:-k
I agree also :)
I think we all get enough rules, regs, red tape, HSE **** at work without having it when we come home :)
Not a dig at the mods at all, just everyone is over sensitive, bitchy, get all high and mighty..
Bah folks, calm down, and have a drink or a smoke or something..
yorkie_chris
08-12-09, 11:21 PM
I figure if you want to talk complete s**t go on twitter or facebook, whether that be generally unrelated, random rubbish or just unintelligible.
timwilky
08-12-09, 11:24 PM
...and what about people who don't speak English as a first language? Should we similarly judge them?
No, of course not:rolleyes:
Actually Ed, most foreign types have a far better grasp of English grammar that I will ever have. After all, they have been taught it. Most English have gone through their secondary education learning French or German grammar from teachers who assume that they know English grammar in the first place.
I was taught sufficient English to pass an O level. Yet still struggle with the correct place to place an apostrophe, should of course one be required in the first place? should it be before or after the pluralising s, is it possessive etc.
I may know enough to know a verb, noun or adjective. But formal construction was never taught.
BTW, why should I not split an infinitive? why is it so bad?
Do we still have elitist groups who place people intellectually and socially simply because of the way they speak or write. Who am I kidding, of course we do!
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