Unleaded Or Super Unleaded?

[Aquila]

As the title says peeps,whats everyone putting in the tank!

Is it really worthwhile putting in Optimum fuels,I have a k1 curvy & was wondering if other people put in the dearer fuel & does it really matter.

[fizzwheel]

The only time I noticed any benefit was during cold damp winter days as I found that the bike was less prone to carb icing on the super unleaded / premium fuels than on standard stuff.

Most of the time IMHO its not worth it, I never found any benefit in terms of MPG or performance.

[Wideboy]

The only time I noticed any benefit was during cold damp winter days as I found that the bike was less prone to carb icing on the super unleaded / premium fuels than on standard stuff.

Most of the time IMHO its not worth it, I never found any benefit in terms of MPG or performance.

+1 to all of that

[Jayneflakes]

To be honest, I used to fill my K3 SV with Super after a friend said that modern bike engines are designed for it. However, if there was any difference neither Carol or I could tell.

These days I just fill her up with standard unleaded, the same with my CG125 and that is a high performance engine!

[yorkie_chris]

a friend said that modern bike engines are designed for it.

Tell your friend to STFU.

If engine was designed to run on super it would detonate itself to bits if you ever filled it with regular. Compression ratio of SV is well within limits of 95RON fuel.

[zsv650]

makes **** all difference in the pointy slightly easier starting in the curvy thats about it.

[Alpinestarhero]

Tell your friend to STFU.

If engine was designed to run on super it would detonate itself to bits if you ever filled it with regular. Compression ratio of SV is well within limits of 95RON fuel.

+1. V-power or any other of the higher octane fuels avaliable only make a differance to the cold starting and running (i.e. the first 10 minutes until your bike is up to temp enough not to suffer from carb icing). Else, it makes little differance unless you have something like a GSXR or R1, something with and engine in a higher state of tune, then you may (may!) stand to get a performance benefit.

I put in V-power into a fuel injected bandit i was lumbered with for a while to see if it make any differance. Not a bit, it was still crap fueling :lol:

[yorkie_chris]

ASH do some reading. None of the supersport bikes have a knock sensor on them. They're set for 95RON. And amount of extra ignition advance you can give is worth hardly any power anyway. And it's not like they can change compression ratio on the fly. If you want to tune motor THEN start looking what fuel to run, if you want mad compression then go to premium/octane booster/avgas/race fuel/methanol etc. Whatever you want to spend.
Also engine can suffer carb icing if it is at full temp easily. Needle is part that gets chilled not engine itself. Coolant at 100deg is nowhere near, just a few Kg of freezing air and water vapour going past it.

Only reason premium fuel would add power is if it is different density and fuel map is wrong for different density.

[fizzwheel]

Else, it makes little differance unless you have something like a GSXR or R1, something with and engine in a higher state of tune, then you may (may!) stand to get a performance benefit.

I've put Superunleaded into my GSXR, it made no difference to MPH or performance on that either. OK well not stricly true, I noticed my wallet was a bit lighter.

[Alpinestarhero]

I've put Superunleaded into my GSXR, it made no difference to MPH or performance on that either. OK well not stricly true, I noticed my wallet was a bit lighter.

So power to weight ratio increased...see, it DOES work!

I suppose you might be able to notice some gains on a dynometer. But like I said, its all just a maybe...

Anyway, for what it might be worth, i run sheel V-power through the winter. In the summer, I'll fill up with it if I feel like splashing the cash, but otherwise normal unleaded is best (for my wallet)

[thedonal]

So power to weight ratio increased...see, it DOES work!

I suppose you might be able to notice some gains on a dynometer. But like I said, its all just a maybe...

Anyway, for what it might be worth, i run sheel V-power through the winter. In the summer, I'll fill up with it if I feel like splashing the cash, but otherwise normal unleaded is best (for my wallet)

I'm pretty much the same- been using it more in winter.

Though I use FST too- really reduces knocking when the bike is warming up and it runs more smoothly in the cold.

[bengrrr]

I've always felt premium fuel has made a difference to mine, i find the shell makes it a very pokey. I notice the difference if i put normal fuel into the bike when im a bit strapped for cash.

[kwak zzr]

i use the cheapest :)

[speedplay]

I've not noticed the difference with the "super" grades of petrol on the bike but I do get higher mpg if I use the "BP Ultimate" diesel in the car though though.

[Alpinestarhero]

I've not noticed the difference with the "super" grades of petrol on the bike but I do get higher mpg if I use the "BP Ultimate" diesel in the car though though.

I have noticed a slight increase in throttle response at very small opeings - V-power makes it a bit more progressive. But it could have been because my carbs were always out of balance. i might not notice any more

[Aquila]

I will try V-Power next time its out the garage.

Does anyone add Redex or similiar to the tank every so often!

[Alpinestarhero]

I will try V-Power next time its out the garage.

Does anyone add Redex or similiar to the tank every so often!

So long as you use good quality fuels, you dont need to add redex :)

[Scoobs]

None of the supersport bikes have a knock sensor on them.

CBR600RR definitely does, not sure about the 1000RR.

[Holdup]

CBR600RR definitely does, not sure about the 1000RR.

They both do indeed

[yorkie_chris]

CBR600RR definitely does, not sure about the 1000RR.

Ok my info is out of date... none of supersport bikes I am intereted in or can afford have a knock sensor on them! :-P

[johnnyrod]

Redex? Jeez thats out of the ark. Some people say they get better mileage on super instead of regular unleaded, but some of the fuels are slightly higher density so a FI engine that regulates itself can use a little less volume because it's the same weight of fuel. As YC so diplomatically puts it though, road engines are made for the lowest type of fuel they're going to see otherwise it'd be a recipe for disaster. Anything much over the minimum octane number requried won't make a real difference, just like a pallet of Big Macs won't fill you up any more than one or two cos you'd never be able to eat them all.

[Alpinestarhero]

Redex? Jeez thats out of the ark. Some people say they get better mileage on super instead of regular unleaded, but some of the fuels are slightly higher density so a FI engine that regulates itself can use a little less volume because it's the same weight of fuel. As YC so diplomatically puts it though, road engines are made for the lowest type of fuel they're going to see otherwise it'd be a recipe for disaster. Anything much over the minimum octane number requried won't make a real difference, just like a pallet of Big Macs won't fill you up any more than one or two cos you'd never be able to eat them all.

SV handbook says the engine will run on 91 octane minimum. Its only that the "super" unleaded fuels have some additives that make it easier for cold starting that makes them worth purchasing, but only in the colder months

[Scoobs]

Ok my info is out of date... none of supersport bikes I am intereted in or can afford have a knock sensor on them! :-P

;)

[Alpinestarhero]

I tell you all what

at the moment it dosnt matter what fuel you put in your bike

parraffin

diesal (petevtwin!)

95 ron, 99 ron, 102 ron

because its blooody snowing and we aint going anywhere

[Lozzo]

I tell you all what

at the moment it dosnt matter what fuel you put in your bike

parraffin

diesal (petevtwin!)

95 ron, 99 ron, 102 ron

because its blooody snowing and we aint going anywhere

Speak for yourself, I've just dragged my Versys out of the garage so I can go for a tootle around and then pop to the launderette to dry last night's washing.

[Alpinestarhero]

Speak for yourself, I've just dragged my Versys out of the garage so I can go for a tootle around and then pop to the launderette to dry last night's washing.

i am speaking for myself

:smt041

[trumpet]

Tried it three times over same roads I seem to save about 2/3 of a ltr after 200 miles

[Wideboy]

Tell your friend to STFU.



LMFAO, sorry that made me crack up..... carry on

[TonyS]

Calculating my fuel mileage every time I fill up, I find both my car and bike seem to give an extra 10% mpg using Shell V-Power, doesn't seem to be any difference with the other super unleaded fuels. If the price difference at the pump is not too great I usually fill them both up with Shell V-Power.

[Wideboy]

Not true, to get a accurate comparison you would have to find a pump on level ground, fill up from a completely empty tank putting the exact same amount in and in the same temperature so the fuel is the samw density, then run the engine at consistant revs untill its empty in the exact same climate :lol: (I had the same argument with a friend when he said his 1l polo was getting 65mpg :lol:)

its just a placebo effect, super unleaded only works in performance cars and even then i'd say the gains are only marginal or just to keep the manufacturers warrenty

[yorkie_chris]

I reckon with "normal use" the errors probably average out.

[Dicky Ticker]

W.B My missus gets a regular 60+mpg out of her Polo and I only ever put regular in it so his gain has got to be minimal for the extra fuel cost.

[Wideboy]

He's a idiot tho :lol: ;)

anyone had experience with the 5 start deisels ect, do they even do that anymore?

[Steve_God]

The octane number of a fuel is measured in a test engine, and is defined by comparison with the mixture of iso-octane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso-octane) and heptane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptane) which would have the same anti-knocking capacity as the fuel under test: the percentage, by volume, of iso-octane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso-octane) in that mixture is the octane number of the fuel. For example, gasoline with the same knocking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking) characteristics as a mixture of 90% iso-octane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso-octane) and 10% heptane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptane) would have an octane rating of 90.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#cite_note-0) This does not mean that the gasoline contains just iso-octane and heptane in these proportions, but that it has the same detonation resistance properties. Because some fuels are more knock-resistant than iso-octane, the definition has been extended to allow for octane numbers higher than 100. Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel (see heating value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heating_value)). It is only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner.


More expensive fuels 'tend' to burn in a more controlled manner, meaning those engines designed to take advantage of it, will see a small benefit. The SV lump isn't one of them...
It will typically have more additives in though, and they can sometimes be helpful for the odd use to clean out the system :)

[johnnyrod]

I was trying to find a list of UK suppliers' RON and MON ratings the other day but failed. MON is a lower number and more real-world, RON is what they quote on the pumps.

In terms of additives, take someone like Shella nd they'll use a good package even in the "normal" grade of fuel. It takes a few tankfuls for it to make a real difference though, just filling up once won't have a big effect, in general.

[TimMcC]

Not tried it in the SV.

My diesel Volvo manages to average about 38mpg on V-Power Diesel though, which is slightly better that it's normal 36mpg.

Clearly the 2mpg increase does not justify the cost, I notice no difference in performance. :(

[stratman_001]

Im a proud member of the 33hp club with a naked curvy and i do notice a difference going between fuels, i find that 'Total' have a super unleaded that improves my performace considerably in the higher rev ranges....
Chris.B

[Orpheus]

Ive thought that the BP Ultimate gives a very (very) slight increase in power, and that BP fuel in general seems to make my bike run slightly smoother. Then again this might be completly in my mind.

[allantheboss]

What? None of you run your bikes on milk?

That might be why I'm having trouble starting....


(I use Shell V-Power, I'm pretty sure it's made it less prone to fail in the cold. Still haven't decided if I will carry on using it when it warms up)

[ophic]

I...i find that 'Total' have a super unleaded that improves my performace considerably in the higher rev ranges....
and how about your bike? :D

[metalmonkey]

I talked to my dad about this at lengh, well he has worked in the oil industry longer than some you have be alive...

He only put in his sports car, as it simply got a higher mpg than putting standard 95 RON which I stick in my bike. It didn't make the car go faster, or increase the BHP or anything like that. I really think many are getting a beliveed effect. Its like people I dived with said, oh Nixtrox taste better, eh?

I'm mean really what you do with a 1-2 bhp gain anyway? Like the vast majoirity of us would ever notice, me being one of them.

Well I guess you can be like the people I have dived before, it makes them feel better, but they will never understand why they are diving on nitrox fully, scary really.

Isn't unleaed fuel one of the big cons any way? Lets put a cancer casuing agent, into the most used fuel in the world, nice one.

[embee]

I was trying to find a list of UK suppliers' RON and MON ratings the other day but failed. MON is a lower number and more real-world, RON is what they quote on the pumps.



MON (motor octane number) is normally typically 7 numbers lower than RON (research ON), doesn't often vary much from that. In the US it's normal for the average (RON+MON)/2 to be used, sometimes referred to as "pump" octane number because it's usually quoted at the filling pump.

91RON as cited in the handbook will be typically 84MON and around 87 (R+M)/2

In reality you only need to use one system for general purposes, once you get used to that particular rating.

[cbay]

There was a review recently in BIKE or RIDE magazine, comparing Shell VPower, Total Excellence and BP Super or what ever its called!

And it made no difference at all apparently. A Tiny bit but not enough to explain the extra cost.

[Alpinestarhero]

Shell V-power in the winter, to help with smooth, fuss-free cold starting and intial running until the engine is up to operating tempurature.

Else 95 RON is more than enough...Suzuki claim 91 RON is the minimum grade of petrol to put in the tank :)

FWIW, I did feel a notice between V-power and normal unleaded on the transition from shut throttle to just a tiny whiff of throttle - shell V-power makes it a little smoother. I don't know how much of that is in my head though

[Alpinestarhero]

Isn't unleaed fuel one of the big cons any way? Lets put a cancer casuing agent, into the most used fuel in the world, nice one.

oxygen is a diradical and is carcinogenic...as is the UV rays from the sun reaching us here on earth

far more carcinogenic dangers and feul additives ;)

[jacksuzukisv650]

i thin its all in the mind because when you put in v power your tryin to get the best mpg out ya sv then ur watching ur speed i mean who cares what mpg ur geting when your bombing round the lanes and up and down motorways over 100 lol u dnt get any mpg at 11000rpm

[Alpinestarhero]

i thin its all in the mind because when you put in v power your tryin to get the best mpg out ya sv then ur watching ur speed i mean who cares what mpg ur geting when your bombing round the lanes and up and down motorways over 100 lol u dnt get any mpg at 11000rpm

I care, because I commute :D (and rarely get to 8000 rpm, let alone the limiter...) I'm gonna run a few tanks of 95 RON when the weatehr gots mroe agreeable, and then I'll do a test. 95 RON vs 99 RON shell fuels. For shiggles, I'll also do 95 RON + Silkolene pro FST (carb icing treatment additive).

Incidentaly, I dont run V-power for MPG...I run it for ease of cold starting, and also because I beleive it to make the engine smoother on the off-on throttle transition, and because I understand it to have some extra additives to keep the carbs and engine a bit cleaner

Again, could be wrong on all those accounts :lol:

[jacksuzukisv650]

its all good fun

[Alpinestarhero]

its all good fun

:thumleft:

even when snow is piling up on one's visor :lol:

[scotchpie]

I use super in the car and I get a little better mileage, but its here and there as to if I am saving any money. Does not seem to make any difference in the bike

[yorkie_chris]

Its like people I dived with said, oh Nixtrox taste better, eh?

rebreathers do, until you get a cocktail :smt005

[Taipan]

My diesel car gets better economy with Ultimate diesel. My KTM loved Vpower. I (begrudgingly) put it in once cos it was the only fuel available after queuing for the pump. Next day I noticed my bike was running much "crisper". So much so I thought I must have had a partially blocked jet that had cleared itself? It later dawned on me that I was on Vpower. I couldn't believe it could be that so tried a couple of tankfulls of normal and then Vpower. I could notice it each time and economy was slightly improved. I was surprised by it tbh. Vpower also really helped fight against carb icing on my zx9. I like it but rarely bother paying for it. Tight git me!:p

[sinbad]

I think Tesco were offering wafer-thin head-gaskets to all UK motorists, for just 500 Clubcard points, at the launch of their 99 octane petrol.

Not really.

[Alpinestarhero]

I think Tesco were offering wafer-thin head-gaskets to all UK motorists, for just 500 Clubcard points, at the launch of their 99 octane petrol.

Not really.

for what purpose? A slimer head gasket will help give mroe power due to the increased compression ratio....but at the expense of engine reliability?

[ophic]

for what purpose? A slimer head gasket will help give mroe power due to the increased compression ratio....but at the expense of engine reliability?
Higher compression, more likely to knock, hence requiring higher octane fuel.

[stratman_001]

My commute is 49.8 miles each way meaning every evening on my way home i stop and fill up the tank to the brim costing me £12-ish with super unleaded and £11-ish with standard 95 (yes i do tend to stay between 5-8000 RPM as my restrictors have given me a huuuuggggeeee flatspot between 3500-5500 RPM) The difference costs me £5 a week but id rather drink two less pints over the week and have hassle free starting and running throughout the winter :) But thats just me....

[yorkie_chris]

That sounds thirsty for a 33bhp'd bike.

[Alpinestarhero]

My commute is 49.8 miles each way meaning every evening on my way home i stop and fill up the tank to the brim costing me £12-ish with super unleaded and £11-ish with standard 95 (yes i do tend to stay between 5-8000 RPM as my restrictors have given me a huuuuggggeeee flatspot between 3500-5500 RPM) The difference costs me £5 a week but id rather drink two less pints over the week and have hassle free starting and running throughout the winter :) But thats just me....

That sounds thirsty for a 33bhp'd bike.

I dunno, my quick (crap) mental aritmetic says he's getting about 10 miles per litre? That works out about right, I was getting 10 mile/litre when 33 bhp and still do. How many miles per litrr you getting on average YC?

[ophic]

That sounds thirsty for a 33bhp'd bike.
I get 3 55 mile legs out of my tank. Costs about £15. Admittedly, it's mostly motorway.

[yorkie_chris]

How many miles per litrr you getting on average YC?

I don't like to think about it.

[Alpinestarhero]

I don't like to think about it.

:lol:

[stratman_001]

Yeah Your Arithmatic Works Out About Right Give Or Take, I Did (naughty i know) Use My SV Before Restriction And The Fuel Economy Was Noticeably Higher Then. I Think The Reason Behind It Is Haveing To Wring The Neck Of My Bike So Much, I Do Spend My Days Playing With My Friends On Bandit 1200's, XJR 1300's And Such Like....
Chris.B