Cheap emulator alternatives

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.debrix.com/41mm-Fork-Damper-Valve-2000-up-Harley-FXST-Softail-p/24-0361-vt.htm

30USD rather than £140

Will fit curvy not pointy, original thread here:
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=112643&page=13

[LiamH]

http://www.debrix.com/41mm-Fork-Damper-Valve-2000-up-Harley-FXST-Softail-p/24-0361-vt.htm

30USD rather than £140

Will fit curvy not pointy, original thread here:
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=112643&page=13

Well spotted, but $33.55 to post to the UK though - gold plated jiffy bag?

[hardhat_harry]

But wont you have to wear leather chaps, sport a handle bar moustache and sing in the village people to have anything from Hardley Movingson on your bike?

[yorkie_chris]

Who cares that is still c£100 cheaper than racetech ones.

And yes I know it says h*rl*y on site... but valves are made in taiwan so they should be OK!

[Neeja]

Good find.

If I wasn't getting shot of the SV I'd give them a bash for the £45 or so they'd cost in total to get them here.

[Luckypants]

Look like rip-offs of the Racetech ones to me.

[yorkie_chris]

They work the same way but lets face it a checkplate and a preloaded pop off valve to sit on top of a damper rod is hardly exclusive technology.

I don't know who thought of them first TBH but it wouldn't surprise me. Racetech are certainly not the only company who manufacture an emulator of sorts.

[Wizzbangwill]

Well spotted, but $33.55 to post to the UK though - gold plated jiffy bag?

get me a flight for that and I will pick them up! Lol

racetec copies already seen and tried. Not as good as the racetecs.

[yorkie_chris]

Racetech copies you mean these?

And quantify not as good, such a basic part can't really be bad unless it's not flat. Not as good is a pretty meaningless statement.

[jambo]

Good spot Chris,

I will have a think about purchasing a set. Emulators were on my shopping list anyway but £140 was outside what I can justify at present.

Jambo

[yorkie_chris]

I'm still wondering what wizzbang means by not as good. Obviously the setup might not be perfect out of the box but if you'd fitted AK20s chances are they'd benefit from a shim or 2 swapped around to suit the nuances of your own bike, style and local temperatures...

[LiamH]

I'm still wondering what wizzbang means by not as good. Obviously the setup might not be perfect out of the box but if you'd fitted AK20s chances are they'd benefit from a shim or 2 swapped around to suit the nuances of your own bike, style and local temperatures...

I'm waiting to see if anyone on the US forum has really tried these out (other than bouncing up & down on a static bike). The only way I could see them being "not as good" compared to the racetech ones is if they are badly machined, or the shims are poor quality and don't seal.

For the money it would be worth a gamble, but as you need to drill out damper rod holes and cut down spacers to fit them, it wouldn't be easy to revert to standard if they don't work that well.

[yorkie_chris]

For price all you would need to do is flatten the sealing surfaces on the emulator on a bit of glass with fine emery.

They aren't shims like in a cartridge so I don't think the quality of those would matter much, shims in cartridge are made of a specific spring steel because they need to flex so well and consistently, these emulators just use checkplates.

Spacers are easy to find/remake and IMO the damper rod mods are easy to undo.

[Davie]

but valves are made in taiwan so they should be OK!


So are harleys

[ixlr8]

I'm waiting to see if anyone on the US forum has really tried these out


You mean this thread?

http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=112643&highlight=emulator+deal

[Neeja]

That thread is worth it just for this curvy pic:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c31/menasan/0530091803.jpg?t=1260605785

[yorkie_chris]

Good spot Chris,

I will have a think about purchasing a set. Emulators were on my shopping list anyway but £140 was outside what I can justify at present.

Jambo

I thought you had a ZX6R?

[jambo]

2001 ZX6R, and a 2000 SV650S that used to belong to Anna.

It's pretty standard but is something of an exercise in how much you can get out of something for no money, as the whole bike's worth maybe £500:D Rides well enough and used it to Mark 2 up on AR09 :cool:

Jambo

[7755matt]

These emulators, can they be used as is, in a standard fork with standard springs, or is it better to upgrade springs etc when fitting them? If so, linear or progressive?

Ive ordered some so need to decide if i am upgrading the rest. Anything else worth doing to the forks while im taking them apart?

[yorkie_chris]

Springs for sure. Linear. Also oil, 15W or 20W depending what springs. Also depending on the specific oils viscosity.
And you know about the mods needed to the damper rods right? Look for some posts by tovar on that svrider thread... you drill bottom holes out to 11mm and close off top small one.

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/images/content/motorcycle/PVD-ISO-Viscosity-Data.gif
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm

[7755matt]

How do i work out the best rate for the spring then, and which oil as to 15 or 20?

Ive seen the damper rod mods so will be brazing the damper rod top hole and drillign the bottoms. Would it be worth getting a spare pair to do the mods on, and keeping the others should it ever go back to stock?
Anyone got a pair?

[yorkie_chris]

You can if you want, for price what is point going back to stock?
Note high VI of all treacle thick oils, what feels good this time of year will be sloppy in summer.

What do you weigh? Is it N or S? What shock on back?

[7755matt]

Currently about 16 stone kitted up. Standard shock on rear but looking for a suitable to replace it with at some point.

[ixlr8]

Try this for Racetech spring rates; http://www.mad-ducati.com/Technical/racetech/SpringChart.html

[yorkie_chris]

Cool chart, only drawback I can see is head angle. For me a 12mm change in shock free length meant about 2 rings of preload on the front.

I would estimate .90 or .95, though that is a guess.

Here is same from traxxion
http://www.traxxion.com/images/art/tech.sprng.rate.500.310.gif

[svtomo]

anyone fitted these yet?

[LiamH]

So.....Did anyone take the plunge then?

[7755matt]

I've bought some but Im not sure on my capabilities to fit them just yet :(

Anyone offering???

[rc mad]

the set i ordered has just turned up today, overall pretty good bits of kit for the price. You certainly could not get a set machined for that price in the uk, however they will need a bit of fettling before fitting.

Already had them apart, some machining debris in one of them and some crap in the other, the machining doesn't look to bad but it's let down by the vast ammount of sharp edges everywhere, a few minutes with a neede file will fix that, i am also going to lap the important parts into each other for a better sealing surface. Only major issue is that one of the large silver washers is not flat, which at the moment will allow oil to bypass the spring loaded checkplate when the forks compress.

Also looks like the damper rods have to come out again, to have the small upper hole closed off and the lower holes opened up to 11mm.

should hopefully get them installed tomorrow, if i can get the upper hole in the damper rod closed off ok

[mikerj]

I started fitting my bargain emulators last night, I needed to change one of the fork tubes due to pitting and leaking seals anyway. Others have gone for a top hat style bush to locate these on the pointy forks, but there is a slightly simpler design that can be used (it looks a bit scabby in this pic, this bush hasn't been cleaned and fitted yet)

http://www.mikerj.clara.net/bike/emulator_bush.jpg

I made these to be a press fit into the end of the damper tube, and made them slightly too long so the bush stood proud after pressing it in. Then I put the whole damper tube into the lathe and turned the bush down flush with the end of the damper rod.

http://www.mikerj.clara.net/bike/bush_pressed_in.jpg


The emulator then fits snugly into the bush:

http://www.mikerj.clara.net/bike/emulator_fitted.jpg


In fact the bush could be simpler still, just a thin tube effectively but I was starting from a solid bar and I was getting fed up with producing swarf so I didn't bother turning out the entire inside diameter.

[rc mad]

Got mine fitted, could not open the holes up in the damper rod so i stuck in another two holes the same diameter as the existing 8mm holes, filled in the top rebound hole and put it all together, used a 120mm oil level with the emulators fiitted. Immediatly obvious that they work as i put the emulators in before the oil and had to 'pump' the forks to get the oil in correctly, similar to pumping cartridge forks.

Anyway the seem to work great with two turns, much less harsh a ride, in fact they now show how badly setup the rear is. :rolleyes:

oh well time to tinker with the zx6 shock

[doser]

Anyway the seem to work great with two turns, much less harsh a ride, in fact they now show how badly setup the rear is. :rolleyes:

oh well time to tinker with the zx6 shock


yah, gotta watch for that - you can't well have the front nicely damped and the back pogoing all over the shop or you're gonna find the weeds in some tight, rough little corner.

[mikerj]

In case anyone else has a non-SV650 bike with basic non-cartridge forks they would like to improve, I fitted a set of these emulators to my brothers GPZ500 hack yesterday as the forks needed to be rebuilt anyway. Had to turn down the OD of the main body and the locating step by about 1.5mm, a very simple job if you have access to a lathe. Now waiting for the uprated springs to be delivered (never seen a more soggy front end - makes a stock SV look positively oversprung!) before I can set them up properly, but the improvement in compression damping is already very noticeable - less dive under braking and less harshness over bumps.

It's worth taking the emulators apart and lapping the return valve sealing surface on some fine wet and dry (~800-1000 grit) against a piece of glass to get them flat (i.e. the underside of the thin brass "lid" and the flat side of the internal steel washer) since on mine at least there were burrs from the machining in production that means it didn't seal very well.

[peeterus]

In case anyone else has a non-SV650 bike with basic non-cartridge forks they would like to improve, I fitted a set of these emulators to my brothers GPZ500 hack yesterday as the forks needed to be rebuilt anyway. Had to turn down the OD of the main body and the locating step by about 1.5mm, a very simple job if you have access to a lathe. Now waiting for the uprated springs to be delivered (never seen a more soggy front end - makes a stock SV look positively oversprung!) before I can set them up properly, but the improvement in compression damping is already very noticeable - less dive under braking and less harshness over bumps.

It's worth taking the emulators apart and lapping the return valve sealing surface on some fine wet and dry (~800-1000 grit) against a piece of glass to get them flat (i.e. the underside of the thin brass "lid" and the flat side of the internal steel washer) since on mine at least there were burrs from the machining in production that means it didn't seal very well.

mikerj i am on this boat, did you fill the damper rod rebound hole on the gpz forks? or would you do it now?

[mikerj]

mikerj i am on this boat, did you fill the damper rod rebound hole on the gpz forks? or would you do it now?

Yes, I did the modifications as per the SV650, i.e. drilled out the compression holes in the lower part of the damper rod and filled in the rebound hole. The damper rod is a bit smaller than the SV one, so I think I had to go a little smaller with the compression holes, but my memory is crap! Should be obvious how large you can go when you gt them out though. The GPZ was sold a couple of years back and the new owner was amazed at how good the suspension was compared to his old one.

[peeterus]

ok thanks, i will drill 4 8,5mm compresion, filled rebounds and 7,5 or 10 sae oil and see