Small Capacity Bikes [Archive] - SV650.org

squirrel_hunter

05-01-10, 01:28 PM

I’m in the market for another bike, but I have a particular criteria to satisfy. Some might say it’s a slightly odd criteria but it makes perfect sense to me.

I’m after a small capacity bike that matches these simple criteria:

It must be cheap. I’m not buying new; a spares/ repair would be more than suitable.
Spares must be readily available.
Anything that’s tuneable gets a look; ease to work with and fettling are considerations.
Also the bike must meet one of these technical specifications either being:

Liquid-cooled 2 stroke with an engine capacity of 50cc or
Single cylinder 4 stroke with an engine capacity of 125cc
So what does the org recommend, what do we have experience of?

I’m thinking either an Aprilia RS50 or a Honda CG125, I prefer the idea of a two stroke and I can’t think of a better 50 than the RS but I am open to suggestions…

BBadger

05-01-10, 01:36 PM

smoker ...but have a look at the old mito's Rg125 or tzr 125. would have thought they be a good restoration idea and actually rideable after.

barwel1992

05-01-10, 01:37 PM

i find the RS50's are utter CR*p

cg125 could only do 60 (unrestricted ) with me on it (16 stone) i never owned it and rode it for 2 days (under instruction) and i hated it more than my 50cc moped

Wester

05-01-10, 01:42 PM

What sort of repairs are we talking.
I've got a XT125 2005 (4 stroke on/off road type thing) with mostly cosmetic damage:
Chrome rims been eaten at by the salt, Not been ran for a while, think the battery is just flat, also will need front brake bleeding and new front pads.

Open to offers if you fancy it.

speedplay

05-01-10, 01:42 PM

i find the RS50's are utter CR*p

To the average 16 year old as a first bike, they look great.

cg125 could only do 60 (unrestricted ) with me on it (16 stone) i never owned it and rode it for 2 days (under instruction) and i hated it more than my 50cc moped

Being honest, I doubt they were built with 16 stone and top speeds in excess of 60mph in mind;)

barwel1992

05-01-10, 01:45 PM

haha I agree with all of the above

but its not all about looks i would want a bike to start when i actuly push the starter button

ohh and the drum brakes of the cg that i was on were awful

BBadger

05-01-10, 01:51 PM

speedplay

05-01-10, 01:52 PM

but its not all about looks i would want a bike to start when i actuly push the starter button

And just where does the rs50 come from..?*

*Doesnt need answering, I know its Italian crap! ;)

Wester

05-01-10, 01:53 PM

BBadger, I'll send you a pm later on today when I'm back home, Cheers.

BBadger

05-01-10, 01:53 PM

cheers am im on the hunt for a winter hack/do up jobby.

BBadger

05-01-10, 01:55 PM

this site might be worth a punt
http://www.125ccsportsbikes.com/forums/

they've got strokers and 4's on there to mosey at.

barwel1992

05-01-10, 01:57 PM

And just where does the rs50 come from..?*

italy :D

speedplay

05-01-10, 01:58 PM

Its ok asking for advise, but you need to mention what your going to use it for.

Is it going to be a toy or short distance commuter/shopper etc.

speedplay

05-01-10, 01:59 PM

italy :D

*points to previous reply ;)*

barwel1992

05-01-10, 02:00 PM

haha lmao

and yup what do you want it for

suzsv650

05-01-10, 02:06 PM

Derbi GPR50, or RS125 or Mito 125. Expect to work on them- Awesome bikes

4Strokes are relable but dont expect to get anywhere on time (saying that ive been driving the Mrs cbr125 round recently) they are also Cheap and boring.

Wester

05-01-10, 02:12 PM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/puch-magnum-x-50-twinshock-kids-bike-NOT-CR-YZ-KX-RM_W0QQitemZ180452224379QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Moto rcycles?hash=item2a03ca6d7b

But you can't have it, Because I want it.
That was my first bike when i was about 7 years old :(

plowsie

05-01-10, 02:13 PM

SR250 for the win.

BBadger

05-01-10, 02:17 PM

still plowsie??
thought it would have gone by now.

plowsie

05-01-10, 02:17 PM

Nope, no fans so far. I thought £300 was reasonable.

speedplay

05-01-10, 02:20 PM

SR250 for the win.

I wondered how long it would take..:rolleyes:

plowsie

05-01-10, 02:22 PM

I wondered how long it would take..:rolleyes:
Who can complain at it. £10 lasts me 170miles easy. No problems with it except the duff starter, cheap to insure, tax is a doddle.

It was worth a plug.

sunshine

05-01-10, 04:30 PM

plowsie im just waiting for you to drop the price more, and does it still have an mot?

plowsie

05-01-10, 04:36 PM

I think it still has a month or so left. I ain't dropping any more unfortunately, I owe £100 on it, and for a bike I paid £500 for, £200 in my pocket will keep me happy.

sunshine

05-01-10, 04:42 PM

well im not paying that much when its going to cost me the same to insure

plowsie

05-01-10, 04:44 PM

well im not paying that much when its going to cost me the same to insure
Okie smoke.

Magnum

05-01-10, 05:10 PM

cg125 could only do 60 (unrestricted ) with me on it (16 stone) i never owned it and rode it for 2 days (under instruction) and i hated it more than my 50cc moped

CG's arn't restricted, theyre just slow. I still manage to get 70 with enough space on a very long road.

My CG is cheap, reliable, and plenty fast enough for around town. It can get up to 50mph more than quick enough, but on longer dual carriageway journeys it can struggle with the wind.

All ive had to do was replace the tyres (pretty worn down when i bought it) which cost me £100 fitted for the pair, and occasional engine oil refill.

Sid Squid

05-01-10, 06:55 PM

I'd avoid the two-stroke Nifty Fifties, they're all knackered and if not they don't last.
A four-stroke 125, is a better bet, although your requirement for tuneability is less certain with any four-stroke.
A two-stroke like an old YB100 or similar can still be found here and there - much much longer lasting and durable than a fifty, and an all round better buy, not in the least exciting though.

Spikenipple

05-01-10, 07:42 PM

Just thought I'd throw it out there; if anyone's after a cheap hack project i've got a kwak GPX250 for sale. Needs a rear caliper, bit of fettling with the carbs and the fairings being put back on. £350 or make an offer.

barwel1992

05-01-10, 07:44 PM

CG's arn't restricted, theyre just slow. I still manage to get 70 with enough space on a very long road.

My CG is cheap, reliable, and plenty fast enough for around town. It can get up to 50mph more than quick enough, but on longer dual carriageway journeys it can struggle with the wind.

All ive had to do was replace the tyres (pretty worn down when i bought it) which cost me £100 fitted for the pair, and occasional engine oil refill.

not what i was told buy my instructor (he owned the bike) but mehh :)

zsv650

05-01-10, 07:54 PM

i had a kmx125 that i really liked relatively quick handled well i think the dt was a similar bike not as good though.

speedplay

05-01-10, 07:55 PM

i had a kmx125 that i really liked relatively quick handled well i think the dt was a similar bike not as good though.

The kmx was a great little bike.

Only bettered in the same era by the kdx220:thumleft:

Spikenipple

05-01-10, 08:17 PM

not what i was told buy my instructor (he owned the bike) but mehh :)

CG125s just aren't restricted FYI, they really are just that slow. They're in a very low state of tune hence the practically bulletproof nature of the engines.

zsv650

05-01-10, 08:19 PM

The kmx was a great little bike.

Only bettered in the same era by the kdx220:thumleft:
havnt even seen a kdx220 i was going too get a kmx200 a while ago though since i missed my 125 so much hard too find a decent one that isnt practically made of rust.

speedplay

05-01-10, 08:31 PM

havnt even seen a kdx220 i was going too get a kmx200 a while ago though since i missed my 125 so much hard too find a decent one that isnt practically made of rust.

KDX220 was an enduro weapon.

http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/data/articlestandard/dirtbike/062006/304490/kdx220_studio.jpg

zsv650

05-01-10, 08:32 PM

wow my jaw just dropped that looks feckin sweet do they do a road kit for them lights and horn plate and stuff.

speedplay

05-01-10, 08:35 PM

wow my jaw just dropped that looks feckin sweet do they do a road kit for them lights and horn plate and stuff.

It was an enduro ;) fully road legal.

zsv650

05-01-10, 08:37 PM

really cool probably rare as hens teeth though i've never seen one round here.

squirrel_hunter

05-01-10, 08:38 PM

Wester, your XT125 sounds interesting but I'll be wanting a road specific bike I think. Looks like you have interest from a BBadger though. The same goes for the Puch Magnum, plus the bike needs to be able to take a fully grown biker such as myself.

Plowsie, as tempting as your SR250 is it will be a no for two reasons, firstly it falls foul of the technical specifications, and secondly good god man its a SR250.

Spikenipple, sorry but the GPX250 is too big it must be a 50cc 2 stroke or a 125cc 4 stroke.

zsv650

05-01-10, 08:40 PM

you really want a 50 the noise will drive you mad.

Wester

05-01-10, 08:41 PM

The same goes for the Puch Magnum, plus the bike needs to be able to take a fully grown biker such as myself.
My old man did a lot of years motorcross, But it was the Puch Magnum that injured him the most! It may be small but it demands respect! :P.
Good luck with your search!

squirrel_hunter

05-01-10, 08:51 PM

Ok if it helps the bike would preferably be a road focused machine so off roaders and enduros are out for me. As for its use it more as a toy, for the moment...

Derbi GPR50 is something to consider, thanks Suzsv650 I'll have a look at what eBay has to offer.

I'd avoid the two-stroke Nifty Fifties, they're all knackered and if not they don't last.
A four-stroke 125, is a better bet, although your requirement for tuneability is less certain with any four-stroke.

I'm expecting all the 2 stroke 50's to be knackered, in fact I'm counting on it. I'm not worried so much about the reliability I'm expecting to rebuild the engine more than once and at least as soon as I get one.

As for the 4 stroke you do have a point with the tuneability apart from a can there's not going to be much readily available. I have heard of people spending thousands tuning CG's for a giggle, and while a tuned one would be a crack I'm not going to be spending the money needed to do it.

The more I think about it the more its going to be a 50cc stroker. Anybody actually worked on one, or owned one? What sort of experience have you had with them?

speedplay

05-01-10, 08:54 PM

I sense more to come than just a road going 50 2t....

sunshine

05-01-10, 09:10 PM

2 strokes are easy to work on because there engines blow weekly/monthly depending on how much there used. My ts250 is a two stroke and i am rebuilding it, i rebuilt the engine not long ago, and i have a spare engine to rebuild.
everyone loves 2 stroke engines tbh

Sally

05-01-10, 09:23 PM

I ran my RS50 for a year between 16 and 17.
Bought from new, did 6500miles on it.
Slid it down the road once.
Fairings are expensive, parts take months and most 50's have been ragged, crashed or just abused by their owners. Not sure if the parts availability is still that bad.

I Cut the restrictor out, changed the gearing and messed with the fuelling.

I Got into the low 60's, averaged between 50-60 on a normal day.
Things just didn't line up sometimes, built quality was just ok and reliability was reasonable.

They can be messed around with by replacing the jets, new air filter and replacing the exhaust system.

I know a lad who managed the low 70's with them mods.

I didn't go further as I wanted something that actually ran most of the time.

Was quite flickable, ran a 120 rear 90 or 10 front and I had lots of fun on it.

Was a 2007 model as far as I remember.

Hope that helps.

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/_saoralba_/Photo0047.jpg

yorkie_chris

05-01-10, 09:38 PM

not what i was told buy my instructor (he owned the bike) but mehh :)

Nope they're just slow. Take one in bits and see, OHV pushrod engine, they can't rev much.

I'd find a crashed or popped 125 2t

phil24_7

05-01-10, 09:42 PM

Kate's Quinqi Storm RS125 (It's a chinese CG125 copy)!

DavieSV

05-01-10, 10:20 PM

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1127/picture028x.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/picture028x.jpg/)

Spares are a plenty, same engine as the formidable c50

Probably the most tunable bike in history http://www.monkeybike.co.uk/acatalog/Engines_&_Engine_Tuning.html

More fun than you can poke a stick at in the snow

squirrel_hunter

06-01-10, 11:45 AM

wyrdness

06-01-10, 12:02 PM

How about a 125cc 2-stroke trailie? You could put a bit of Castrol-R in the tank for the best smell ever.

The Yamaha DT125 looks like a good bet. Has reasonable power once derestricted.

STRAMASHER

06-01-10, 12:21 PM

How about a 125cc 2-stroke trailie? You could put a bit of Castrol-R in the tank for the best smell ever.

Thats what I thought. Yamaha DT125R as late as possible would be my 1st choice. Were still making them up until a few years ago i think. Reliable, tall and as mentioned , with the right smell. Silkolene man me'sel.

Would not touch the Italian stuff unless you prefer tinkering to tonking. I know two folk with RS125's. Never seen them on the road. Always something broke.

4str 125 were and are slugs.

I have had reasonably recently, a KC100 and GP100, both stinkwheels and they ****ed on the CB250 I had for fun/riding like a loon ....and err, sniffing myself.:oops:;)

Good luck on your quest.

Sally

06-01-10, 12:27 PM

Sally, yep that the type of bike I'm looking at, though one of the earlier models. What sort of reliability problems did you have with it and what parts took the time?

Also how narrow is the powerband? And what would a set of tyres for it cost?
I only had some problems once I started messing around with it, the more 'tuned' the engine is and the more power it is putting out, the less the realibility. *I Think :)*

I am not very technical at all, so sorry :)

The plastic flange type bit somewhere between the carbs and the airbox I think split after I took it off to adjust the fuelling. Waited 3 months and by that time I had traded it in for an ER-5, it still hadn't came by then. I just bodged it back together.

I think Aprillia have improved their spares service in the past few years.

It completely died a few times, but that was in the early stages when I first started messing around with it.

Overall, when I first got it to when I started messing with it I had 0 problems. From when I finally was happy with it after consierable messing about, I had 0 problems. So quite realiable.

Tyres, couldnt tell you, never had to replace them, did 6500 and they were still ok when it was traded in.

Also, as far as I remember, its possible to fit the RS125 engine in it, as it has the 125 chassis.

It's not that cramped, it's basically the same physical size as the 125, and I got one fine. I wasn't exactly small, say 5'8-5'10 when I was 16?

I can't remember how narrow it was, but its a very small capacity stroker, with limited power, so I would say you would have to keep the revs high for any speed. I like out in the country, so hardly did any city riding, but what I did, it was fine. Just like any 2 stroke.

Good brakes as well.

yorkie_chris

06-01-10, 12:29 PM

Like any 2t any time you tune for more peak power you just cram all the power into a sharper band. And generally lose reliability unless it was in a really low state to begin with.

DaveW_42

06-01-10, 12:51 PM

I have a 2003 DT125 that I killed the engine in a few months back - should be right for repair though. Kick start and running fine until it died (prob due to my idiocy in not checking fluid levels and too much 40 mile commuting). I had started to break it so it's in bits but I've only sold a few so far which should be easy enough to source on fleabay. Bargain price! PM me if you're interested

speedplay

11-01-10, 09:16 AM

Just found this one on another forum:-
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s38/andrewrx/DSC04103.jpg

Not your usual bike thats for sale on here but if anyone knows anyone http://www.throttlemonkey.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.png
07 plate Approx 3000 miles good condition - never been dropped - full system arrow exhaust - we derestricted the bike after running her in (we have ALL the standard parts to put it back to standard) she will do about 42 mph http://www.throttlemonkey.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/hyper.gif (depends how much you weigh) im selling this bike for my little bro he is wanting £1700 for the bike but will consider sensible offers
http://i148.photobuc...rx/DSC04098.jpg (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s38/andrewrx/DSC04098.jpg)
http://i148.photobuc...rx/DSC04099.jpg (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s38/andrewrx/DSC04099.jpg)
http://i148.photobuc...rx/DSC04103.jpg (http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s38/andrewrx/DSC04103.jpg)
Cheers andy. http://www.throttlemonkey.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif

squirrel_hunter

11-01-10, 10:31 AM

Thats very nice, but slightly out of budget.

I'm thinking around £300-400 for a runner, less if the engine needs sorting. Things like "never been dropped" are far from a consideration.

plowsie

11-01-10, 10:56 AM

£200 for an SR, I'll even chuck in some fluffy dice :lol:

Only playing mate.

fastdruid

11-01-10, 11:18 AM

she will do about 42 mph

That's crap.

Ours (51 plate IIRC) did 62, just derestricted, nothing added or changed at all.

Great fun but gearbox was *SH*TE*, like really really, really crap, especially a pain when you need to use it so much.
Nothing went wrong, spares are OMG expensive (300+ quid for a fairing panel on a bike that only costs £2600 new) and take years to arrive.

Druid

speedplay

11-01-10, 11:19 AM

That's crap.

I just copy pasted:(

fastdruid

11-01-10, 11:24 AM

I just copy pasted:(

I know :)

But 42mph? My 1980 TS50ER was quicker (47mph)!

Druid

speedplay

11-01-10, 11:35 AM

I know :)

But 42mph? My 1980 TS50ER was quicker (47mph)!

Druid

Maybe its got a 22 stone biffa riding it ;)

Sally

11-01-10, 12:18 PM

That's crap.

Ours (51 plate IIRC) did 62, just derestricted, nothing added or changed at all.

Great fun but gearbox was *SH*TE*, like really really, really crap, especially a pain when you need to use it so much.
Nothing went wrong, spares are OMG expensive (300+ quid for a fairing panel on a bike that only costs £2600 new) and take years to arrive.

Druid

Yeah, its around £250 I had to pay per panel. Spares were slow and very expensive, not sure if thats changed.

The newer the bike, the slower they get.
Emmissions regs and that!

Added an arrow full system, and only 42? haha

I don't think he has changed the gearing.

fr499y

11-01-10, 04:18 PM

i just sold a nice 125 a few months back. Sinnis Stealth, only problem is the price of them now is like £1800?? its chinese but build quality was as good as the lil honda's/yam's. Oh and 65/70mph top wasnt too bad for a 125KG 125cc bike :D tyres were of a nice size, 150 rear and a 110 front :)

paiste

11-01-10, 05:17 PM

Wouldn't really recommend the Derbi GPR. Great looking bike but frames had recall due to frames being weak and prone to breaking.
My Nephew had one and if you look at post number 37 and 38 http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=132553&highlight=nephew&page=4 This was what happened after a lowside on grass at about 35 mph!

squirrel_hunter

11-01-10, 08:40 PM

Wow, missed that thread first time round. Glad to know you're nephew is ok, but that's successfully put me off of getting a GPR as I'd expect any bike I own to hit the floor, particularly this one.

speedplay

11-01-10, 08:42 PM

that's successfully put me off of getting a GPR as I'd expect any bike I own to hit the floor, particularly this one.

OK, so what are you going to be using it for?

paiste

11-01-10, 08:44 PM

OK, so what are you going to be using it for?

+1 thats got me intrigued. Maybe it's for crash "practice"!

Holdup

11-01-10, 08:44 PM

Arent the Derbi's and the Aprilias just the same bike with a different name on them?

paiste

11-01-10, 08:45 PM

Arent the Derbi's and the Aprilias just the same bike with a different name on them?

Not sure. I know that the Derbi Gpr and Gilera SC are identical apart from badges.

speedplay

11-01-10, 08:47 PM

+1 thats got me intrigued. Maybe it's for crash "practice"!

I don't know about you Paiste, But I have googled "stupid idiots 50cc road racing" and can't find anything...:confused:

Holdup

11-01-10, 08:50 PM

Not sure. I know that the Derbi Gpr and Gilera SC are identical apart from badges.

Yea ive never looked properly at them both next to each other but pictures and looking at them from a distance i thought they looked exactly the same

squirrel_hunter

11-01-10, 09:51 PM

The Derbi GPR and Gilera SC might well be identical, and they do look similar to the Aprilia RS but these are the newer models. Due to my budget I'll be after some of the older style curvier bikes (as well all know that curvys are the best...).

That said I think the GPR shares the same am6 engine as the Aprilia, and I could be wrong but I think that it is a derivative of the Suzuki RGV engine. Or at least I think the 250 or 125 Aprilia RS has the Suzuki engine in it. But I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can correct me.

paiste

11-01-10, 10:52 PM

Derbi GPR has a Yamaha engine. The Derbi written on the crankcase is a sticker with Yamaha underneath!

sauluk

11-01-10, 11:22 PM

I can second KMX125, it was cracking but it got nicked. They don't seem to be too cheap mind

yorkie_chris

11-01-10, 11:41 PM

I don't know about you Paiste, But I have googled "stupid idiots 50cc road racing" and can't find anything...:confused:

I know fast bikes had scooter races in that london...

Or at least I think the 250 or 125 Aprilia RS has the Suzuki engine in it. But I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can correct me.

RS250 is like RGV250 engine. No idea about the 125s.

I would buy a blown up mito and put a 350 powervalve engine in it

speedplay

12-01-10, 05:50 AM

I know fast bikes had scooter races in that london...

I saw that, Brilliant too how one of them nearly high sides a scooter :D

barwel1992

12-01-10, 12:22 PM

Squirrel hunter, i bet this will sway you to get a moped :D just think of the fun you could have with ure mates

click (http://www.livevideo.com/video/longshotmojo/EE23321FBB7E4C9CAA8FB1B6D0166FDB/moped-dance.aspx)

_Stretchie_

12-01-10, 12:48 PM

OK, so what are you going to be using it for?
+1 thats got me intrigued. Maybe it's for crash "practice"!

He doesn't need any practice

Squirrel hunter, i bet this will sway you to get a moped :D just think of the fun you could have with ure mates

click (http://www.livevideo.com/video/longshotmojo/EE23321FBB7E4C9CAA8FB1B6D0166FDB/moped-dance.aspx)

He would be instantly disowned and beaten like a ginger step-child :smt062