Fitting paddock stand bobbins?

[thulfi]

hey orgers, any help would be much appreciate...

I recently purchased a set of these M10 paddock stand bobbins for my bike. Apart from removing my battery the other day, trying to fit these little things onto my bike has been pretty much the most hands on Ive been with my bike, which should give you a hint as to how useless I am.

Anyway, so it seems pretty straightforward. The M10's screw into that little hole on the swingarm. Except when it goes in a few mm it gets really tight really quickly, and I couldn't get it in with the poor allen key that I have . Would greasing up the hole help?

Also, I would have thought screwing them straight into the swingarm would be sufficient, but the set I purchased came with nuts for each bobbin. Once I have the M10 screwed in, and it emerges from the inside of the swingarm hole, am I then meant to spanner the nut in from the inside? Looks a bit fiddly and hard to spanner in that region, but can't figure out why they've supplied me with nuts for each bobbin.

Pathetic that something so easy makes a thread eh, lol?:)

cheers

[maviczap]

Sounds like the threads in the swingarm need cleaning, unless the bolts you've been supplied with are the wrong pitch, which might explain why they only go in a few mm?

Clean the threads out, check the thread on the bolts for any burrs, if they still don't screw in by hand, I'd say they're the wrong pitch.

If you know someone with a M10 tap, you could run that through to clean out the threads

[thulfi]

So they should go in all the way just by hand?! Well thanks for the advice, I'll clean the thread and see what happens.

As I don't have an M10 tap what would be the best way to open it up/clean it?
And how about those nuts they've supplied me with. Do they serve a purpose?

[madcockney]

So they should go in all the way just by hand?! Well thanks for the advice, I'll clean the thread and see what happens.

As I don't have an M10 tap what would be the best way to open it up/clean it?
And how about those nuts they've supplied me with. Do they serve a purpose?

Years ago the way we used to clean the cylinder heads spark plug threads was to get an old spark plug and file one side of the threads off so as it screwed in it cleaned the thread, Then follow up up with an normal spark plug. You could possibly do something similar with this problem and an M10 bolt. Of course a tap would be better and a carbon steel one would suffice for this job of cleaning the thread.

[maviczap]

Years ago the way we used to clean the cylinder heads spark plug threads was to get an old spark plug and file one side of the threads off so as it screwed in it cleaned the thread, Then follow up up with an normal spark plug. You could possibly do something similar with this problem and an M10 bolt. Of course a tap would be better and a carbon steel one would suffice for this job of cleaning the thread.

Yes, if you can't get a M10 tap then get an M10 bolt and file 3 grooves (channels) along the thread lengthways then use this like a tap, half a turn then back off half a turn, half a turn, then back off.

Use some oil or other lubricant. The backing off clears any muck in the thread, which you should clean off as you go.

But if the bolt doesn't go in easily, don't force it.

I saw this in Classic bike the other month

[Specialone]

Make sure its the right pitch most importantly, i think standard m10 is 1.5mm pitch or is it 1.25mm, cant remember, im not really helping am i ?
Machine mart or screwfix do a cheapish tap set for next to nothing, as others have said, dont force it as they are extremely hard but brittle at the same time, i have broke loads over the years, they are not easy to get out either.
I have even had some taps spark eroded out because i couldnt get them out.

[maviczap]

Yes, I wasn't sure if Suzuki use M10 fine bolts, I think the M8's are for sure.

This maybe your problem M10 fine pitch is 1.25, M10 coarse is 1.5

[timwilky]

I too thought they were M8. japs tend to use fine pitch as noted above on some fittings

[Specialone]

Well guys i have just bought some cotton reels from bikers world by me and it says clearly on the packet that the whole suzuki range is M8 standard which is 1.25 pitch, fine thread M8 is 1mm pitch.
HTH

[yorkie_chris]

They are M8 coarse pitch for sure.


Can't think of any M8 fine pitch on the bike offhand, but the bolts to hold rear subframe on are M10 fine pitch.

[fastdruid]

Can't think of any M8 fine pitch on the bike offhand, but the bolts to hold rear subframe on are M10 fine pitch.

Not just that but IIRC grade 12.9 too, I know this because I replaced mine with longer ones[1].

The bobbins for the curvy are a plain M8, I know this because I had to replace one when I bent/shortened it after an off.

Druid

[1] As the thread was going on the alloy subframe so put longer ones with nuts behind.

[thulfi]

Thanks for the help, I'll head down and get me an m10 tap.

I'm not sure bout the SV's, but I'm pretty sure my er6f is M10's, from everywhere Ive looked online anyway.

[yorkie_chris]

Oh an er6. Dunno then. Get vernier and measure the ID of hole.

[lee67]

defo m8...but guys look at his avatar piccy its an er6'.....if thats his bike then maybe m10 is correct:thumleft:

[lee67]

doh too late, my pc delayed posting haha..

[Holdup]

Kawasaki's use weird sizes for some reason they also do strange things such as on the P7F have the fitments further under the swingarm rather than flush (if that makes sense)

[thulfi]

I do intend on getting a tap. I went to Halfords today and they had nothing. I'll try machine mart.

Incidentally, my stand has two options, as shown here:
http://www.twowheel.co.uk/images/detailed_images/1%20lrg122114412448c92e3cc6968.jpg

I was afraid to use the black bit and hoist it straight under the swingarm then lift. It doesn't seem secure enough, but then again I haven't tried it.

Anybody here lift the swingarm directly using this method, instead of hooking it into some bobbins?

[maviczap]

I do intend on getting a tap. I went to Halfords today and they had nothing. I'll try machine mart.

Incidentally, my stand has two options, as shown here:
http://www.twowheel.co.uk/images/detailed_images/1%20lrg122114412448c92e3cc6968.jpg

I was afraid to use the black bit and hoist it straight under the swingarm then lift. It doesn't seem secure enough, but then again I haven't tried it.

Anybody here lift the swingarm directly using this method, instead of hooking it into some bobbins?

Yep, the bike can slip off the rubber bits, stick to the hooks & bobbins

[Rob969]

I've used that method before but it does seem a little wobbly and i didn't trust it so bought the other part so i could lift it with the bobbins

[thulfi]

Yeh best stick to the hooks then.

I just found this lot on ebay. Seem quite goood value, although are they too cheap ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/40pc-TAP-AND-DIE-SET-GREAT-VALUE-BRAND-NEW-115_W0QQitemZ140371187417QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_DIY _Materials_Plumbing_MJ?hash=item20aec656d9

For my M10, would these two be enough, so I don't have to bother getting the set ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THREAD-TAP-M10-X-1.5mm-%26-8.5mm-DRILL-TO-SUIT--------027_W0QQitemZ140368039470QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=bee2e56d11f0a0e202d6ed46fed2138a
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAP-WRENCH-M3-M12-WORKSHOP-BRAND-NEW-030_W0QQitemZ140371866427QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Han d_Tools_Equipment?hash=item20aed0b33b

Although the set gives you loads for just over half the price of the last 2, how often am I really gonna be tapping threads. Am I really going to need a 40pc tap and die set for basic motorcycle maintenance?

[maviczap]

Yeh best stick to the hooks then.

I just found this lot on ebay. Seem quite goood value, although are they too cheap ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/40pc-TAP-AND-DIE-SET-GREAT-VALUE-BRAND-NEW-115_W0QQitemZ140371187417QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_DIY _Materials_Plumbing_MJ?hash=item20aec656d9

For my M10, would these two be enough, so I don't have to bother getting the set ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THREAD-TAP-M10-X-1.5mm-%26-8.5mm-DRILL-TO-SUIT--------027_W0QQitemZ140368039470QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=bee2e56d11f0a0e202d6ed46fed2138a
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAP-WRENCH-M3-M12-WORKSHOP-BRAND-NEW-030_W0QQitemZ140371866427QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Han d_Tools_Equipment?hash=item20aed0b33b

Although the set gives you loads for just over half the price of the last 2, how often am I really gonna be tapping threads. Am I really going to need a 40pc tap and die set for basic motorcycle maintenance?

With the cost of buying the tap & the wrench you'd be better off buying the set. But your not going to be taping threads very often, so not really worth buying a set either.

Cheaper to by a small triangular file and cut some grooves in the right sized bolt to clean the threads out. But then this depends on if you have a vice to hold the bolt in the first place :p

Are you trying to fit the bobbins to an Sv swingarm? If so I will measure the thread internal diameter and get a bolt to check the pitch of the bolt.

Mean time get a rag and pull it through the threads a few times to clean out any loose muck.

[thulfi]

Thanks mate. I'm actually fitting it to the swingarm of my er6f.

Yeep don't really have a vice either. I'll put some rags inside the thread to try and get rid of the muck. I guess if that fails, I'll just buy the whole set, and go to town on it.

The bolt on the right goes in much easier at the start than the bolt of the left side, which leads me to think that they are the correct size, just that they are both dirty with the left much dirtier.

[Specialone]

Well, an update on my own bobbin reels that i bought yesterday, i bought a motrax welded aluminium paddock stand in the week, but had to get it online because my local store couldnt get 1 until the end of Jan (WTF??), i decided to get the bobbins from them though so i could give them a little trade.
They had the motrax ones last week, but not yesterday, so got some oxford ones to try which were a fiver more expensive as well.
Just fitted them, what a piece of **** the bolts were, the two bolts were different, one was fine pitch, one coarse (didnt find this out straight away), checked packet, defo right one.
First bolt went in on l/h side ok, bit tight, but ok. Done the r/h side and all hell broke loose, the crap bolt went in 3/4 of the way in pretty much the same as the other side, bit tight but ok, when the socket allen driver slipped in the head of the bolt with no warning and rounded off (do suzuki own oxford by any chance lol) in the end had to hammer in an imperial driver to get bolt out.
Ran a tap down swingarm thread no problem, got a new bolt from my stash, compared it to the oxford one and then i found out about different pitch, new bolt went in a piece of p1ss.
Took me 45 mins to do a 5 mins job :(.
Anyway, pleased with paddock stand, takes up less room in garage now as bike is more vertical :D

[thulfi]

Just a quick question again. My tap and die set arrived, and I'm looking to tap into my M10 swingarm threads this week.

Anybody have any thread tapping tips?
Should I clean out the hole with a cloth and oil it up before I start my tapping?
I also read somewhere that when tapping a thread, for every 3 turns forward you should turn in the reverse direction once to ensure a good clean thread and cause less stress to your tools...does that sound feasible?

Thanks

[Specialone]

Clean the crap out as much as you can, start off slow with plenty of lube on the threads.
If its tight, do half a turn or so then back it off a bit to clean the tap, repeat process until your through.
Also, make sure you have correct tap ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah in a turn, back half a turn whatever threads you are cutting. If in doubt bring it back out and blow/wash all the sh*te out.

[thulfi]

thanks guys. Watch this space for the hash up, lol

[yorkie_chris]

Take your time and make sure tap goes in straight and smooth it will be fine. You should not have to use lots of force.

[simesb]

Are you sure the existing bolts aren't just getting tight due to accumulated crap in the threads? M10 should just screw in on a Kwak (my Evotech's did)

[thulfi]

Perhaps shudda cleaned 'em first before I got my tap and die set. Ah well as long I get 'em in one way or the other I'll be content.