View Full Version : Got a speeding ticket - Advice?
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Yeah, yeah, don't worry about the lecture I'm already pretty peed off about it.
My question is this .......
The "offence" was speeding picked up by a camera on 16th October 2009. The letter arrived today (13th) and is dated 11th January 2010. Reading the notes that accompany the notice says that "The law states that a Notice of Intended Prosecution must be posted to reach the registered keeper of the vehicle, ... , within 14 days after the date of the offence."
I have tried to phone the ticket office but get the answer phone.
Some other things you should know before suggesting I take it to court! This was a 30 limit and it says I was doing 50mph, it is for the bike, the bike had no speedo working at the time so it would be possible, they have photo evidence!! :rolleyes:
50 in a 30 ??
You need to [-o<
:)
454697819
13-01-10, 01:34 PM
Is it an NIP or a summons?
454697819
13-01-10, 01:38 PM
I think providing the vehicle is registered in your name & address you are safe to write back and say that as it wasn't served within 14 days it is no longer valid?
fastdruid
13-01-10, 01:39 PM
As long as you are the registered owner and at the correct address then yes it is 14 days that the *first* NIP has to arrive by.
You still *have* to supply details but with a cover letter you should be off without any points.
See http://www.pepipoo.com/NIP.htm
Druid
fastdruid
13-01-10, 01:40 PM
Suggestion (linked from above) is to send something similar to the following letter by Special Delivery.
Dear Officer ******,
CVVVVVVVV - Notice of Intended Prosecution
I received your letter dated *********, the references for which are detailed above. I have enclosed a copy of the Notice sent to me recently, for ease of cross-reference.
You have written to me because I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice. My address is correct as per the details at DVLC, and the vehicle was not a Company car, and was neither hired nor borrowed.
No Officer spoke to me at the time of the alleged offence, and no accident took place. Also, no Police person has spoken with me at or near the time and place detailed in your Notice. The written Notice is the first indication from you of any intention to prosecute.
Your Notice details the alleged offence as VV:VVhrs on *********. The Notice is dated ********, and it came to me by post, received on ********. At the time of opening the mail item from you, I signed and dated the Notice in a space at the top of the page.
Including the day of the alleged offence, this was **th day from the date detailed in your Notice.
Following discussions with the RAC Legal Helpline, please note that the Notice cannot be acted upon as it is time-expired. For this Notice to have been valid, it ought to have been with me within 14 days of the alleged offence [Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin)].
It was suggested I write back to you immediately with these comments.
Yours sincerely
VVVVVVVVV
Registered Keeper
++++
Bluepete
13-01-10, 01:43 PM
That's good Druid.
Pete ;)
fastdruid
13-01-10, 01:47 PM
There are some exceptions that you have to be aware of, for example if it is a new'ish vehicle, HP, moved recently etc but assuming that it is in your name, your address and was for ~1month prior to the event then there really is no excuse.
Druid
OH NO!!!!
Just got through to the ticket office ......
Right, apparently it was sent to 3 other people before coming to me??? I bought the bike at the beginning of October so it may have taken them a while to put the change of owner in. Hahaha what a shocker for the previous owner and the 2 garages that had it !!!! Oooops
Secondly, it wasn't me that was riding. When I said it was for my motorbike they said it looked like a man riding it and descrided Chris's jacket and helmet. They are sending the photo out to me.
BUGGER!!!! What now ???
BUGGER!!!! What now ???
Foward the ticket to Chris :wink:
Chris = numpty !!!!!
(Thought I was much to innocent to get a speeding ticket)
Oh ... well, problem solved ...it wasn't you ......
.... Chris speeds - Chris takes the concequences !!! :-)
fastdruid
13-01-10, 02:02 PM
Secondly, it wasn't me that was riding. When I said it was for my motorbike they said it looked like a man riding it and descrided Chris's jacket and helmet. They are sending the photo out to me.
Well, you have 28 days to respond and 6 months from the date of the offence for a prosecution to be brought.
You are already at 3 months. I personally would be tempted to respond to the NIP on day 25 (by Special Delivery) with details of who you believe it may have been.
Then that whoever when they receive a NIP could also do the same, which takes you to ~5 months. With luck and a tail wind the COFP will arrive just before or after the 6 month period, they can then ignore it and you are points free.
DO NOT under any circumstances ignore the NIP or let it go over 28 days or you'll be on a failure to furnish charge which carries a 6 point penalty (and insurance companies hate it more than speeding).
Druid
yorkie_chris
13-01-10, 04:58 PM
When is day 1? The day you recieve it or the day they sent it? If it's just sent in the normal post how can either be proven?
fastdruid
13-01-10, 05:08 PM
When is day 1? The day you recieve it or the day they sent it? If it's just sent in the normal post how can either be proven?
http://www.pepipoo.com/Section_172.htm
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/ukpga_19910040_en_3#pt1-pb9-l1g21
(7) A requirement under subsection (2) may be made by written notice served by post; and where it is so made—
(a) it shall have effect as a requirement to give the information within the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice is served, and
IIRC it is assumed to have been served 2 days after posting and proof of (1st class) posting is proof of delivery (ha!), yet strangely this doesn't work the other way round...
Druid
Red Herring
13-01-10, 06:40 PM
Well, you have 28 days to respond and 6 months from the date of the offence for a prosecution to be brought.
You are already at 3 months. I personally would be tempted to etc etc...
That's an interesting approach and might almost work given the time that's elapsed so far. Most ticket officers are wise to it though and provided they have enough detail (ie: Chris's name) they will lay an information before the court prior to the six month deadline. Remember they don't have to actually serve you with a summons inside the six months, just put the case before a court and they can do that in your absence.
Well hopefully if we send it all off he will get a Drivers Awareness Course rather than the fine. That's what happened to me last May which is why I was surprised that it could of been me as I have been reformed :D
sunshine
13-01-10, 06:57 PM
i remember when i got my speeding ticket, they sent me the nip within 2 days of the offence, but then i heard nothing 2 days before the 6 months ends i get the letter to take the points the following day i got a letter summoning me to court, when i phoned a friends dad to get legal advice he adviced letting it goto court and he got it throw out of court, i wish i knew how he does stuff like that.
but if you delay it enough chris might get away with. or if he doesnt want points find a very good lawyer, my mates dad lives in America now so he cant help sorry.
fastdruid
13-01-10, 10:06 PM
That's an interesting approach and might almost work given the time that's elapsed so far. Most ticket officers are wise to it though and provided they have enough detail (ie: Chris's name) they will lay an information before the court prior to the six month deadline. Remember they don't have to actually serve you with a summons inside the six months, just put the case before a court and they can do that in your absence.
Of course that was assuming that a COFP is on the cards, re-reading it 50 in a 30 is above the limit for a COFP so no chance of a driving course (that would be at something like 34-37 in a 30) it's straight to court and 4-6 points, assuming he earns 500/week then a fine of £375 - £625, possible disqualification of 7-28 days and a maximum fine of £1000.
I'd play the time game myself, keep fingers crossed and consider a solicitor.
Also see pepipoo, guidelines for punishment are at http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm
Druid
ian505050
13-01-10, 10:34 PM
I was pulled in leeds, in the rain in the dark doing
50+mph at 365 yards away from the officer with the handheld gun. It was a 30mph zone! I had a bald rear tyre and a scorpian race exhaust stamped race use only. He just said take it easy after showing me my speed and sent me on my way.[-o<
It did not look like a 30 mph zone and there was 2 lanes in each direction and no junctions.
fastdruid
13-01-10, 11:26 PM
I was pulled in leeds, in the rain in the dark doing
50+mph at 365 yards away from the officer with the handheld gun. It was a 30mph zone! I had a bald rear tyre and a scorpian race exhaust stamped race use only. He just said take it easy after showing me my speed and sent me on my way.[-o<
Oh if we're doing being pulled tales I was once stopped by armed police for undertaking and larging it up to over 120mph (in a 60) before I saw the blue flashing lights a long way back. :) One major bollocking later and I was let off with a warning.
Druid
Chris was a bit peed off as you can imagine!!
Oh not for getting caught speeding ..... getting caught speeding on an SV :D
Blooming Gixer Boy x
gfewster
14-01-10, 08:36 AM
Bounce it around between you making use of the full 28 days, and play for time. With three months gone already you have an excellent chance of dragging it out past six months.
Ask for the camera picture too ('for the purposes of helping to identify the rider'), that wastes a bit of time and also acts as a 'clock stop' on your 28 days.
Dave20046
14-01-10, 11:11 AM
Not sure if this'll work but you could say you've let a few riders borrow your bike in the past and as they've cocked up taking so long to contact you you can't remember who had it on that day and you don't recognise the gear... see what they suggest.
fastdruid
14-01-10, 11:30 AM
Not sure if this'll work but you could say you've let a few riders borrow your bike in the past and as they've cocked up taking so long to contact you you can't remember who had it on that day and you don't recognise the gear... see what they suggest.
I suspect they'd suggest court with a failure to furnish charge and 6 points. :)
Druid
yorkie_chris
14-01-10, 11:35 AM
The asking for photos at 25 days or so seems like the best idea if that stops the clock, when they've sent the photos does that mean you get another month?
Dave20046
14-01-10, 11:36 AM
I suspect they'd suggest court with a failure to furnish charge and 6 points. :)
Druid
What's it gotta do with them if she doesn't have a sofa? (sorry)
Touché. plan B laugh at chris then.
fastdruid
14-01-10, 11:40 AM
What's it gotta do with them if she doesn't have a sofa? (sorry)
http://www.drivingoffencesolicitor.co.uk/offence/documents-failure.htm
If she really *didn't* know and supplied the names of all the possible riders then might not go to court/get found guilty. She has however admitted she knows who it is on a public forum...
Druid
CheGuevara
14-01-10, 11:47 AM
Oh if we're doing being pulled tales I was once stopped by armed police for undertaking and larging it up to over 120mph (in a 60) before I saw the blue flashing lights a long way back. :) One major bollocking later and I was let off with a warning.
Druid
This is going a ways back, but I got pulled for 256kph in an 80kph zone, was charged for causing a pursuit (as well as the excessive speed etc), nearly landed myself a criminal conviction, did get hit with an 18 month ban and several thousands in fines and legal fees :smt083
When I pulled over I got off the bike and waited for him to arrive. He jumped out and as I was starting to say "Sorry about that, I didn't see you back there." he was drawing his gun and screaming (red face and spit flying) for me to get on the ground.
Now I'm in snug leathers so I'm lowering myself to the ground. It apparently wasn't quick enough for him as he came running over and slammed me down the rest of the way then, knee in my back, started trying to tear my gloves off so he could cuff me. I let him struggle for a few seconds before politely advising him there was a strap that needed undoing first. I then asked him if we could shuffle back so my head wasn't out in the road, but he refused :rolleyes:
Still amped up he asks me if I knew how many people he could have killed while pursuing me. Now this I recognise as a rhetorical question, and so choose (wisely, I believe) not to follow up with "So why didn't you just radio ahead?", despite the fact that policy dictates he should have done just that (without greater cause to initiate a pursuit -like I had commited some serious crime and was attempting to escape for example).
I heard he got to ride a desk for a while after that incident. Regardless his mistake didn't negate my offence, and it seems fortunate I was able to negotiate a plea to a non-criminal charge. The law where I'm from does not clearly state that I have to have intended to cause a pursuit, or even that I had to know I was being pursued -just that the pursuit occured as a result of my actions.
The pursuit car was a modified Chev Camaro. After the "chase" it refused to start again, and as part of the evidence I received there were photos of the police car on a flat-bed being towed away. :cheers:
And I don't ride like a **** on the roads anymore (although in 23 years of road-riding I've only ever come off a bike once, in 1987, while doing the speed limit and a pedestrian crossed in front of me without looking -so my judgement can't be that poor.).
Hahaha - you crafty lot!! Sorry but I'm of the mind set that if you have done something wrong then the only way is to fess up, have Rozzers in the family and all that. My original question was to do with the 14 day time limit but that has been resolved cos of the change of owner on the registration document.
Photo evidence arrived today and its pretty self explanitary so gotta take the rap for it. Just hope they don't go too hard on him!!!
fastdruid
14-01-10, 01:44 PM
Just hope they don't go too hard on him!!!
As before, its going to court and will be 4-6 points, chance of a 7-28 day ban and a pretty big fine.
Druid
yorkie_chris
14-01-10, 02:07 PM
50 in a 30? Didn't know that would mean a visit to court?
50 in a 30? Didn't know that would mean a visit to court?
There could have been kittens in the road or anything :)
fastdruid
14-01-10, 02:23 PM
50 in a 30? Didn't know that would mean a visit to court?
http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm
Druid
Well, the final outcome is in ......
Chris admitted to riding my bike and got the letter through today saying that it can be dealt with by fixed penalty. He's gonna get 3 points and £60 fine. Think that's pretty good to be honest, could have been alot worse!
Thanks for all the advice and help on this one :D
Drew Carey
03-03-10, 01:56 PM
Phew....good outcome considering.
SUPERSTARDJ01
03-03-10, 02:27 PM
Sticky for Druids letter?
punyXpress
03-03-10, 03:26 PM
[QUOTE=Amanda;2149651] My original question was to do with the 14 day time limit but that has been resolved cos of the change of owner on the registration document.
How official is this extension of 14 days? Seems the authorities can part around all day but if the accused does the same there is no leniency.
sunshine
03-03-10, 04:05 PM
it has to be delivered to the first address within 14 days, then forwarded to the new address so you could get away with it if it wasnt delivered to your old address within them 14 days, which cant really be proven.
fastdruid
03-03-10, 04:13 PM
it has to be delivered to the first address within 14 days, then forwarded to the new address so you could get away with it if it wasnt delivered to your old address within them 14 days, which cant really be proven.
It can if its post marked after the 14 days!
Druid
sunshine
03-03-10, 06:02 PM
well other than that of course :P
-Ralph-
03-03-10, 09:08 PM
As long as you are the registered owner and at the correct address then yes it is 14 days that the *first* NIP has to arrive by.
IIRC it is assumed to have been served 2 days after posting and proof of (1st class) posting is proof of delivery (ha!)
It sounds like you know this already and this was just a typo, but I'm just pulling it out for clarification in case somebody at a later date looks up the thread and reads it as gospel.
The first NIP has to be served in time, it doesn't have to arrive at all!
-Ralph-
03-03-10, 09:11 PM
it has to be delivered to the first address within 14 days, then forwarded to the new address so you could get away with it if it wasnt delivered to your old address within them 14 days, which cant really be proven.
It doesn't have to be delivered and it doesn't have to be forwarded at all.
Lost in the post? It has still been served in time and is valid.
Re: forwarding - The recipient would be expected to return it within 28 days stating that they had sold the bike on, then the NIP would have to be re-issued to a new owner/address. It's not forwarded on.
UPDATE!
Chris got his licence back yesterday with the 3 points and a receipt for the £60 fine. All done.
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