Never forget your oil [Archive] - SV650.org

bigjonnysv650s

24-01-10, 06:28 PM

Hi every one After a good day out with some nice weather for once!
my bike lost power coming down the A34. So after pulling over right away and turning it off i looked at the oil window it was dry i did put a liter in and it started knocking i am thinking bottom end bearing my be?
Any info would be good.

Red Herring

24-01-10, 06:49 PM

Generally by the time the bike loses power and you notice it you're to late to save the engine just by putting some more oil in.... If you're lucky it will be just the bottom end shells, if you're not it will have fried the top end as well!

bigjonnysv650s

24-01-10, 06:56 PM

I did turn it off as soon as it did loose power! I am hoping the pistons and barrels are ok. Would it be a big job for a motorcycle place to do the bottom end bearing replace or cheaper to get a engine put in?

sunshine

24-01-10, 06:56 PM

bigjonnysv650s

24-01-10, 07:02 PM

sunshine

24-01-10, 07:16 PM

Thanks Sunshine made me feel little better lol
I am gutted tho not had it long 07 plate looks mint and went well or did :-( i think i am going to take it in to a place down the road and beg them to not charge the earth.

do you have a cage? drop the engine out take it to an engine expert DO NOT ride the bike until its fixed even with oil, better to be safe than sorry, most garages will simply recommend a straight change for a new/working second hand one, not really cheap but could be cheaper than a rebuild if its got top end trouble.
im happy i have never had to rebuild a 4 stroke engine, 2 strokes are a completely different story tho.
do you know much about rebuilding engines yourself? its quite easy really order a new complete gasket set, all new bearings (while you in there replace them all). and get ready to find out how much damage there is, as you take the head off be very careful not to scratch or damage it.

quick look shows new engine is £250 appox (second hand) or gasket costing £123 then bearings and other parts needed.

bigjonnysv650s

24-01-10, 08:08 PM

I dont have a cage nor do i no much about engines which sucks :-( I would rather try and save the old motor really if i can.
Would the head gaskets need replacing etc?

24-01-10, 08:26 PM

There was an anagram I was taught even doing my cbt, can't remember what it is now but it involved that checking Tyres, lights, water and oil everytime before you go out on a ride.

Alpinestarhero

24-01-10, 08:30 PM

When was the last time you checked the oil, prior to this event? I check mine every time I fill up with fuel (about 120 miles or so). It dosn't use much (maybe 200 ml in 1000 miles).

Reminder...oil lubricates, cleans and cools

I think if you split the engine apart, you will need all new gaskets. I suspect if you have the knocking noise, you'll want the engine apart. If it were my bike, and I wanted to save the engine as much as possible, I wouldnt be riding it. The first thing you should do at least is drain the existing engine oil and get some fresh stuff in - any shards of metal will be suspended in the oil thats in there, so first things first...get rid of that debris!

christopher

24-01-10, 08:33 PM

There was an anagram I was taught even doing my cbt, can't remember what it is now but it involved that checking Tyres, lights, water and oil everytime before you go out on a ride.

Quite often got told 'power' by my instructor, or 'powder' if you want to include Damage in it.

Petrol
Oil
Water
Electrics (Lights)
Rubber (Tyres)

jacksuzukisv650

24-01-10, 08:36 PM

just wonderin how many miles has the bike done ?

Red Herring

24-01-10, 08:38 PM

Quite often got told 'power' by my instructor, or 'powder' if you want to include Damage in it.

Petrol
Oil
Water
Electrics (Lights)
Rubber (Tyres)

Just about the only time that word is applicable to an SV...:D

bigjonnysv650s

24-01-10, 09:01 PM

just wonderin how many miles has the bike done ?

9k! thats all sucks to be me.
i have a friend who got a friend that is going to take the engine part and have a look. Have been told taking the sump off you can get to the main bearing shells.

sunshine

24-01-10, 10:11 PM

9k! thats all sucks to be me.
i have a friend who got a friend that is going to take the engine part and have a look. Have been told taking the sump off you can get to the main bearing shells.

But how then are you going to check theres no damage to the top ends? you still need gaskets and bearings and there could be damage to top end so it could still be as expensive as a new engine?

squirrel_hunter

24-01-10, 10:26 PM

welcome to club of knackered engines your not the only one on here, someone is on number 4 or 5 i think and its most like going to need a complete rebuild or a simple replace. either way im glad its not me doing it.

Its either 4 or 5 I honestly can't remember, but thats over 2 SV's and some 100,000 miles. Not that it makes any difference, it was all avoidable. Except the last one, I do have a valid excuse for that one. But anyway we don't want to get side tracked here...

Sounds like you need a new engine. If you can show me a second hand engine for £250 I'll buy it. Expect to pay £350-400. If you then get a shop to fit it, the bill will come to around £700+. Alternatively, strip it down get the crank reground and then stick it all back together. Expect to pay about £140 for the crank and then £100 on gaskets if you want to rebuild what you've got.

To decide on what your going to do I think it comes down to three things, time, money, and skills with the spanners. Quick and expensive will be dump it at a garage. Slow and cheap will be the rebuild, but you will need to be comfortable with the spanners.

If you're interested, some mumblings from me about this including the current 'will I ever be bothered to get back in the garage and finish it' can be found here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=137248) and here (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=141656).

sunshine

24-01-10, 10:42 PM

http://www.gumtree.com/london/16/52328016.html does that count?

beabert

24-01-10, 11:01 PM

Tell me how you knackered so many sv engines lol, im worried now.

sunshine

24-01-10, 11:03 PM

no oil at least 3 times

beabert

24-01-10, 11:13 PM

How often on average do these need topping up then? :o my little honda never needed a drop and i used to give it some stick.

squirrel_hunter

24-01-10, 11:14 PM

http://www.gumtree.com/london/16/52328016.html does that count?

Nice find, if someone is after an engine then that looks interesting. In fairness I'm rebuilding mine so won't be traveling to London...

squirrel_hunter

24-01-10, 11:18 PM

How often on average do these need topping up then? :o my little honda never needed a drop and i used to give it some stick.

From what I've discovered it depends greatly on how much you ride and your riding style. There is no hard and fast rule. I would recommend a weekly check.

When did you last check yours?

beabert

24-01-10, 11:20 PM

You might want if for the next time squirrel lol.

beabert

24-01-10, 11:25 PM

From what I've discovered it depends greatly on how much you ride and your riding style. There is no hard and fast rule. I would recommend a weekly check.

When did you last check yours?

I bought it in october rode it home and havent used it since, ive been going over it with a tooth comb over the winter. Its getting warmer so wont be long until i start learning to ride my first big bike.

Im not used to checking very often, as ive not had too. Now i have heard your tales i will be! :smt023

fastdruid

24-01-10, 11:34 PM

I found my SV would use nothing if used gently but would drink a fair bit if thrashed.

Typically this would mean that I'd not need to worry about it in winter and check it once a week in summer! :)

Druid

squirrel_hunter

24-01-10, 11:53 PM

I bought it in october rode it home and havent used it since, ive been going over it with a tooth comb over the winter.

Not heard of oil evaporating from a sealed engine before. But I suppose there is a first time for everything... Check it before you use it and then check it once a week.

Its getting warmer so wont be long until i start learning to ride my first big bike.

You will never learn to ride a bike when its parked up. And riding in the winter will teach you a lot.

sunshine

25-01-10, 12:25 AM

yes teachs you what the ground feels like in winter tbh.
mine over 6000 miles in the summer i used hardly any oil tbh.

beabert

25-01-10, 12:27 AM

You will never learn to ride a bike when its parked up. And riding in the winter will teach you a lot.

Thats a myth, and an expensive dangerous one.

Ive done plenty of winter riding on the my 125.

squirrel_hunter

25-01-10, 12:31 AM

Are you serious?

sunshine

25-01-10, 12:35 AM

more miles means more experience = better rider, its my excuse for doing more than 12k a year.

EssexDave

25-01-10, 01:00 AM

Talking on oil. My VFR400 I topped up about 250ml in 12,000 miles. Was very impressed with the engine. That's a 20 year old bike.

My mates CBR125 did about 1litre in 4,000 miles and that was 3 years old.

My old SV, I didn't use any in the 1500 miles I did on it.

To be honest, check, check and check. It doesn't hurt to have a look every time you feel like it - when you're stopping for fuel as someone said they do sounds like a good plan because at least you get in a habbit, and if you need any, you can top up from the petorl station.

fastdruid

25-01-10, 01:03 AM

Not exactly a pain with the SV either, hold it upright, glance at the window, is there oil, yes or no. VFR is rather more of a pain, I much prefer the sight glass to a dipstick.

Druid

Alpinestarhero

25-01-10, 07:55 AM

Just about the only time that word is applicable to an SV...:D

I exceeded the speed limit yesterday...so powerfull enough ;)

mind you, i DO have a yellow curvy

Red Herring

25-01-10, 08:25 AM

I exceeded the speed limit yesterday...so powerfull enough ;)

mind you, i DO have a yellow curvy

You're right, speeding on a yellow curvy is indeed newsworthy....are you sure it not just an over reading speedo?

Alpinestarhero

25-01-10, 08:40 AM

You're right, speeding on a yellow curvy is indeed newsworthy....are you sure it not just an over reading speedo?

](*,)

:smt044

beabert

25-01-10, 08:54 AM

Are you serious?

Yes, learning to ride a big bike for the first time in the cold wet icy snowy conditions is asking for trouble, its more dangerous for obvious reasons and more expensive because of the higher probability of binning it.

Much better (if you have the choice) is to get a feel for it when warm for increased concentration, dry for more traction, then as the year progresses gradually get used to riding it all weather conditions encoutered.

Neeja

25-01-10, 10:29 AM

I started to learn to ride a big bike at the end of a cold October, and passed my test towards the end of a cold November. 2 days later I bought my SV and rode it all through the winter. End result? I rode all the way through the cold-snap recently because I was confident enough to do it, having learned to ride in cold+icy conditions to begin with.

squirrel_hunter

25-01-10, 10:42 AM

Yes, learning to ride a big bike for the first time in the cold wet icy snowy conditions is asking for trouble, its more dangerous for obvious reasons and more expensive because of the higher probability of binning it.

Much better (if you have the choice) is to get a feel for it when warm for increased concentration, dry for more traction, then as the year progresses gradually get used to riding it all weather conditions encoutered.

Words fail me. I cannot begin to describe how flawed your thinking is.

dizzyblonde

25-01-10, 10:46 AM

I I started learning to ride in an August in distant memory. I learnt more during the crap months than in the summer.
Exactly a year to the day after doing the CBT thing I passed my DAS.
I ride every winter.....gives you thick skin. If I hadn't have encountered all manner of weather in those first winter months I'd have been one of those puffy power ranger summer weeekend warriors.

Beabert...what a crock of plop!

PS on topic,, always look at your oil, or you do end up on engine number two....not that I'd know owt about that either! And it wasn't my fault it blew up....fecking ex's and imapct drivers grrr grrrr waffle hisss boooooo !

Alpinestarhero

25-01-10, 10:48 AM

My first ride on my SV was on salt-encrusted roads. I've ridden through a few winters now, and I am used ot how a bike feels when thetyres just cant get up to tempurature.

This puts me in a good position to be confident and relaxed in adverse weather conditions, whatever time of year

jambo

25-01-10, 04:05 PM

I hate to have to make a post on topic, however:
i have a friend who got a friend that is going to take the engine part and have a look. Have been told taking the sump off you can get to the main bearing shells.
I have bad news for you. Most in-line 4 cylinder engines have a nice removeable sump, and horizontal crank case joins, meaning this is an option. The SV has vertical crank case joins and a non-removable sump.

The minimum buy-in for having a proper look at the bottom end is to remove the engine and strip the heads & barrels, then spit the cases.

At this point you're looking at replacing all the gaskets, plus any rectification work that's needed.

Now it sounds very much like the motor's damaged from oil starvation but do make sure that diagnosis is right before you shell out proper money.

If you find a decent 2nd hand engine (with no seized nuts or damage) you and a couple of mates with some knowledge should be able to swap the motor in a long day's work. That's what I'd be looking at doing. Any motor from 1999-2009 will fit (though the colours are different for different years).

Most people get much better at checking maintenance tasks early on, I'm very sorry you appear to have learned this the expensive way.

Jambo

yorkie_chris

25-01-10, 04:35 PM

It's probably b*llocksed. Most likely the crank, so if you put new shells in it will frag those too.

New motor is the simplest option by a long shot.

If you chose to rebuild you need a regrind, new shells. £130, gaskets £80. Loads of time. For that just pay £300 for fresh motor, drop it in and split original motor for parts.

Thats a myth, and an expensive dangerous one.

Ive done plenty of winter riding on the my 125.

Don't be a fanny.

Expensive and painful = you won't do it again

sunshine

25-01-10, 04:38 PM

If you find a decent 2nd hand engine (with no seized nuts or damage) you and a couple of mates with some knowledge should be able to swap the motor in a long day's work. That's what I'd be looking at doing. Any motor from 1999-2009 will fit (though the colours are different for different years).

Jambo

isnt the 99-02 models carbs and then mean you would need carbs as well? or would his k7 FI system all fit in nice and neatly?

yorkie_chris

25-01-10, 04:40 PM

You need to change intake rubbers, rotor and stator. Then all EFI crap will fit, except for PAIR but just plug that up and leave be.

Biker Biggles

25-01-10, 06:39 PM

You can get some idea of the damage by draining the oil and filtering it through some cloth.If theres bits of metal or silver swarf in it you know a major part has shredded itself.Its probably sh&gged by your description,and an engine swap is your best bet.

sam anon

26-01-10, 06:03 PM

P.O.W.E.R.

Petrol. Do you have enough?
Oil. Do you have at least the minimum, and if not, where's it gone? And why!
Water. As above.
Electrics. Does everything turn, light, flash and beep?
Rubber. Pressure and tread depth, general condition.

This is a bit of a faff, admittedly, but even done on every other ride should save a whole lot more faff in the long run.