Architects costs

[rpwoodman]

Does anyone know how much (a ballpark figure) an architect would charge to design a house, creating plans that a builder could use?
I'm assuming the materials used in said house would have no impact on the cost for the house design, assuming it was a fairly straight forward house?

thanks

[Owenski]

Im a civil engineer mate, architects are ******s. Wht is it your wanting?
The architects are consultants and so if you go with an idea and then accept what ever they do for you it'll cost a lot less than if you go and ask them to amend what ever crap it is they end up drawing the first few times.

If it helps if you describe what it is your after I can knock up a couple of AutoCAD layouts no worries that will at least save you an initial back and forth expense ranging into the high hundreds. THen all you'll need it an architect to come and detail the materials for you.

[rpwoodman]

Wow - thanks very much for such an offer.
TBH, we're looking to move house and can't really find what we're looking for, and my wife suggested that I look into the possibility of buying some land and building something to our spec on it (I think the difficult part is actually finding some decent land that we'd be allowed to build on). We had absolutely no idea of cost for this sort of thing, or indeed, how things work.
If we decide to go further with the idea, I may well ask for your advice. Really appreciate the offer.

[G]

Ou would be suprised how cheap an architect is at the moment... There's alot about with not slot to do and a house is easy.

[TazDaz]

+1 for architects being nonces. The few I have been in contact with through work don't seem to understand the concept of money and the lack thereof, and they don't even use standard bloody scales which really annoys me!

Seems like an expensive way to go...does the .Org have an EuroMillions winner amongst us?! :)

http://www.architect-yourhome.com/costEstimator.asp

The above link may give you an indication, but I've honestly got no idea. I just haven't met an architect which I thought was worthwhile speaking to and in typical British fashion I've tarred them all with the same brush!!! :)

[malks]

have you any real experience of building/contracts/regs etc... if you don't I would seriously consider getting a small building contractor to do the project for you. yes it may cost you a bit more but the hassle you would have to put up with (whilst I presume u hold down a full time job) would just be ridiculous. having someone else deal with this for u would be a huge plus.

the current Market in building trades tho could really work to your advantage if u were to move on this, as small contractors, builders, any construction companies are screaming out for work! so you could get really good rates. but if you buy land with no planning permission you could be waiting ages before this is passed. oh and whatever your budget make sure you have access to at least and extra 20/25% incase of problems for emergencies!

you may have guessed that I work in construction dealing with the money/measuring/contracts side of things!

[Jdubya]

Im a civil engineer mate, architects are ******s. Wht is it your wanting?
The architects are consultants and so if you go with an idea and then accept what ever they do for you it'll cost a lot less than if you go and ask them to amend what ever crap it is they end up drawing the first few times.


+1

Also, if you do go the way of using an architect, make sure you check out his references coz they like to think that they can project manage; but most of 'em can't even manage a ****!

[Lucas]

I'm an interior architect, with most jobs in the retail sector. I'm involved in a lot of concept work, planning, detail design, working drawings, 3D visualisation and walk-through.

Concept: looking at mood boards, material finishes, design direction (or style/theme) 2D/3D sketches, ideas on planning etc.

Planning of space, layout of functions within space, circulation and flow etc

Detail design of concept, how things will look and feel at a human scale, how it will function, what material will it be, etc.

Working drawing, is design intent for construction, usually supplied to contractors for construction or architect to draw up for construction.

3D visualisation and walk-through of concept, how it will look.

If you need a hand in any of the above, let me know :smt023

p.s. I'm not a architect by law!

[TazDaz]

+1

Also, if you do go the way of using an architect, make sure you check out his references coz they like to think that they can project manage; but most of 'em can't even manage a ****!

That's what is funny. They train for I think 6 or 7 years and Project Management doesn't even get taught as a unit at most universities!

Little tip I've picked up, use payment milestones. You get X% for initial plans, then X% for the next stage etc etc so basically they only get paid if a required task has been done. If you pay up front then your money will be pi$$ed away; If you wait for a final total invoice they'll try and justify needing more money to complete the tasks.

[Specialone]

Remember also you can submit plans drawn up by a knowledgeable cads person, doesnt have to be an architect.
I use two different guys for my plans, one is a structual engineer who does a top job inc any calcs, but sometimes over specs things.
If its not too complicated I then use an experience draughtsman who had been doing cad plans for years and does a good job, he charges around £350 for an average extension.
I remember reading something about standard plans you can buy for self build type houses, all tried and trusted designs, might be worth researching that cos you may find a design you like already done.
Expect an average 3 bed detached to cost anywhere between £60-£80k using reasonable materials and a half decent builder.
Obviously land costs extra, that is just build costs.
PS, dont project manage yourself, its harder than it seems, getting things on site exactly when you need them is a pain, otherwise you end up with materials everywhere and getting in your way.

HTH
Phil

[Owenski]

if this is all a possible fantasy then just been indulged by you and the misses I wouldnt go paying architects for what are essentially sketches. They will charge a fortune for what is essentially a legally backed art degree grad to draw you up something which looks amazing but its inpheasable and almost impossible to construct for under a lottery winners budget. I would knock the plans up for you free of charge provided you allow me to keep the rights of the plans so that I may use them in my own profile, to try to encourage paying custom in the future :)

Things to think about regarding construction of a single dwelling:
1. Location, isolated is brilliant but planning and services (gas water elec) are a nightmare and an expense. The cheapest locations available are generally existing houses with a large garden, its a MASSIVE initial expense but the idea been that you live in the initial house whilst building the dream home. Then depending on status you knock down/sell on the original house and move into the newly built one. THis is the most ideal solution to single dwellings as it means all the connections to services already come into the site boundary (ie you do not need to get through as much complicated and expensive form filling in to get everything you need connected up).

If thats not an option then your looking for a planning approved location, as has been mentioned its going to give many sleepless nights if you buy a plot with out outlined permission, then only for the planners to refuse (it is common and it does happen).

Following the aquisition of a suitable plot and some outline planning permissions you'll no doubt have certina planning conditions which need to be followed by the letter; height of roof, number of floors everthing externally from the length of the drive to the colour of the mortar between the bricks you use.

Thats the stage you'd take the floor plans (i can do) to an architect give them the planning conditions and the floor plans and get quotes for how to make the floor plans into 'working drawings' these will include the required finishes and specification for the individual details eg the type of roof construction which would be required.

Once a working drawing is produced you'd need an engineer to arrange for the relevent connections and 3d levelling also the foundation details they'd need detailing up which will require a site investigation (no good building it ontop of a hidden marsh without the proper preparation).

You'll then be looking to already have the site manager employed and he's the little wizzard who turns all that chaos into deliveries and contractors arriving on site on the right day to do their jobs.

I can put you in contact with people that can provide all of the above, but with them been local to me rather than yourself I'd be wary of thier involvement past the advice stage as once constructions starts any problems can arrise and the last thing you want is a 250mile site visit call out charge. Depending on their moods however I'd imagine they'll offer adivce for free but get local companies to actually do the work for you.

I hope that hasnt put you off its something I'll definetly be doing one day and once you've got the plans all togther then you'll see your self doing all sorts of little fantasy day dreams about the possibilties.

[speedplay]

architects are ******s.


+1.

Most of the time, you'll unknowingly be dealing with a technician and not an architect anyway.

[Specialone]

+1.

Most of the time, you'll unknowingly be dealing with a technician and not an architect anyway.

Yeah its amazing how many of them call them architects when their not.

[Owenski]

Yeah its amazing how many of them call them architects when their not.

+1 an architect isnt an architect until they've got their degree.
Then again neither are engineers... and on that vain I should amend my initial post. Im not a civil engineer, I'm a civil engineering technition but Im a ****ing good one ;) plus ill be an engineer come july when we get results it'll also mean Im more qualified then my boss... but I know who knows more about engineering than the other and it isnt me lol.

Just make sure if your consultant is a technition that your paying tech rates and not grad rates there is a nice difference!

[Captain Nemo]

if architects are c***s are not, its not as simple as just knocking some plans up, otherwise every daffy who could use cad would be knockin some up, its hard enough yo get planning without presenting a planning authority something that looks like you dont know what youre doing, you need someone who speciailizes in housing, not neccesarily an architect put someone whos used to dealing with planning and preferably has a good relationship with the planning inspectors, nothing going to cause you more problems than ****e plans,

they need to know the building regs inside out, you dont need an architect but you do need someone who understands why rooms have to be certain minimum sizes, why doors and windows are in certain places and just why you cant put an open plan staircase there, im a civil engineer , i have a hnc in building and have previously done plans and had them through planning and construction, buti wouldnt want to do it now, cos despite doing it succesfully before the regs have changed so much id be back and forth to planning all the time trying to give them what they want,

if youre serious, ask around someone will know someone local,

[Specialone]

+1 an architect isnt an architect until they've got their degree.
Then again neither are engineers... and on that vain I should amend my initial post. Im not a civil engineer, I'm a civil engineering technition but Im a ****ing good one ;) plus ill be an engineer come july when we get results it'll also mean Im more qualified then my boss... but I know who knows more about engineering than the other and it isnt me lol.

Just make sure if your consultant is a technition that your paying tech rates and not grad rates there is a nice difference!

I am always likely to use, when i can, the people who are good at what they do, not just because they have a degree.
Experience counts in my eyes, i've had qualified plumbers do work for me who tbh have been crap compared to my own plumbing work and im a chippie.
They couldnt even get a bath level, putting first fix pipes in the wrong place, untidy rad pipes, using copper tails on chrome towel rad etc etc.

So, if a guy can produce a good set of plans that will get through building control and allow for latest regs i really dont care if he has a degree or not.

Phil

[Owenski]

if architects are c***s are not, its not as simple as just knocking some plans up, otherwise every daffy who could use cad would be knockin some up, its hard enough yo get planning without presenting a planning authority something that looks like you dont know what youre doing, you need someone who speciailizes in housing, not neccesarily an architect put someone whos used to dealing with planning and preferably has a good relationship with the planning inspectors, nothing going to cause you more problems than ****e plans,

they need to know the building regs inside out, you dont need an architect but you do need someone who understands why rooms have to be certain minimum sizes, why doors and windows are in certain places and just why you cant put an open plan staircase there, im a civil engineer , i have a hnc in building and have previously done plans and had them through planning and construction, buti wouldnt want to do it now, cos despite doing it succesfully before the regs have changed so much id be back and forth to planning all the time trying to give them what they want,

if youre serious, ask around someone will know someone local,

dont worry about having had taken time out lol, the regs change so damn frequently that even those who got a set passed last week, submitting the same thing for somwhere else would prob be out of date by the time they came to be assessed. lol

[rpwoodman]

Wow - thanks guys for all the advice and pointers - I really appreciate it.

I'm not sure I really considered all the roles that are played in such an endeavor, but you've given me a 30,000 ft view that I can mull over.

Just for the record, I'm not a lottery winner or anything, just been saving fairly hard for the last few years whilst we get some problems with our current house sorted out (thankfully that will be in the next month or so).

A lot of houses seem to have dual-aspect living rooms (i.e. long and thin) which may look nice and let lots of light in, but are rubbish for socialising - everyone sits in a line and peers up and down trying to chat to people!

And I'd love a cinema room (I love films), which I always thought a cellar would be perfect for as it wouldn't let in loads of light, but they seem to be something of a rarity now, and the houses that do have them are well out of our budget.

Texture is very important to me, so having stone, wood, glass, steel etc would be like a dream, and being able to decide the rooms, the aesthetics of the rooms, the windows, all that, I'd love.
I suppose as a number of you have said, it's a very expensive and stressful experience, but given the money and time (allowing me to find the right location, whether that be a piece of land or an existing house), it sounds like a life-changing experience.
I guess my naivety may help me in that I'm not scared off it, but the experience a lot of you guys have would end up with a better final product, closer to the initial budget.

I'll print all this out for (probably future, but who knows) reference.
Thanks for taking the time to reply in so much detail, and I may well be in touch with some of you, even if it's just to play devil's advocate - I'd much rather someone call me a muppet than making a very costly mistake, or making a decision that gives years of heartache.

rgds

Rupert.

[TazDaz]

+1 an architect isnt an architect until they've got their degree.
Then again neither are engineers... and on that vain I should amend my initial post. Im not a civil engineer, I'm a civil engineering technition but Im a ****ing good one ;) plus ill be an engineer come july when we get results it'll also mean Im more qualified then my boss... but I know who knows more about engineering than the other and it isnt me lol.

Just make sure if your consultant is a technition that your paying tech rates and not grad rates there is a nice difference!



LeedsMatt, you can become a chartered engineer with pretty much any engineering qualification. I know at least two who are chartered and all they have is a HNC each. You just have to do a massive evidence based technical report which takes years to compile, oh and of course actually have gained the experience on the job. ;)

A degree isn't the be all and end all. I don't have a degree, although I'm going onto an MSc possibly this year or next (thinking of going travelling first) simply because I can get on it with experience, allbeit only four years worth.

@rpwoodman

Apologies for the massive de-rail rpwoodman. Oh, and if you need any transport work done such as a transport statement or need an access junction designed, just give me a shout! It's very unlikely that I'd get involved in a single house build, but some areas have set stupidly low analysis thresholds! ;)

[Luckypants]

Rupert, I'm thinking along the same lines when my house is sold (and proceeds split with my ex). Building my own home has been a bit of a dream for years, but land is the hardest thing to find. I got out-bid on a plot once over 10 years ago, ever since the opportunity had not arisen.

WRT Architects I do not agree with the general comments on here that they are bad people. Ask around for recommendations, speak to other self builders in your area, join some self build forums and ask, read the self build mags... etc. Remember that your architect does not have to be local (might even help if you do not want them doing the project management), they just need to be approachable. I'm lucky, I have a friend who happens to be an architect and I really like his work, so if I ever get to do this I know who will be designing my house - he now lives in Scotland and I want to build in N. Wales, I don't consider this an obstacle. Basically find an architect you can talk to and who 'gets' what you want from your new home, if you are happy with them and they with you the result could be your dream home.

I do not feel qualified comment on what is a reasonable cost, but you can get a good feel for it from the self-build community. I do know that an architect designed house will be more expensive, in general, than something built by engineers drawings. I also know that every house I have ever thought 'WOW' about, or loved the atmosphere, the light, the aspect or whatever - has been designed by an architect.

Getting an architect designed house but not one designed for you individually is a cheaper way to a great house. Check out some of the design and build companies or those selling packaged homes, their houses are architect designed but are not individual. This reduces the design fees quite considerably.

[ArtyLady]

+1 for architects being nonces. The few I have been in contact with through work don't seem to understand the concept of money and the lack thereof, and they don't even use standard bloody scales which really annoys me!

Seems like an expensive way to go...does the .Org have an EuroMillions winner amongst us?! :)

http://www.architect-yourhome.com/costEstimator.asp

The above link may give you an indication, but I've honestly got no idea. I just haven't met an architect which I thought was worthwhile speaking to and in typical British fashion I've tarred them all with the same brush!!! :)

I take offence at your first sentence :mad: my grandfather, father and uncle were architects, and my sister is an Architectural Technician. If you don't understand their charges then you need to look into what it takes to qualify, run a business, pay staff etc.

[ArtyLady]

if architects are c***s are not, its not as simple as just knocking some plans up, otherwise every daffy who could use cad would be knockin some up, its hard enough yo get planning without presenting a planning authority something that looks like you dont know what youre doing, you need someone who speciailizes in housing, not neccesarily an architect put someone whos used to dealing with planning and preferably has a good relationship with the planning inspectors, nothing going to cause you more problems than ****e plans,

they need to know the building regs inside out, you dont need an architect but you do need someone who understands why rooms have to be certain minimum sizes, why doors and windows are in certain places and just why you cant put an open plan staircase there, im a civil engineer , i have a hnc in building and have previously done plans and had them through planning and construction, buti wouldnt want to do it now, cos despite doing it succesfully before the regs have changed so much id be back and forth to planning all the time trying to give them what they want,

if youre serious, ask around someone will know someone local,

Sensible post :smt023unlike some ignorant and insulting ones in this thread :-(

[Rog]

Im a Civil Engineer and deal with buildings all the time, but house building is specialised. I had an extension and bits done to my house a few years ago and while I think I am quite capable of doing the plans I wanted it to run smoothly, so I hired someone who does it week in week out. If you know amyone who has had work done speak tot he and who they used. You can also speak to your Planning Authority and they should have a list of people that they regularly deal with and could give you.

Trust me, you only want to go through planning and building inspections once. making mistakes at these stages will turn your project into a money pit.

[Owenski]

WRT Architects I do not agree with the general comments on here that they are bad people.
Calm down there lucky I think you an Arty have taken those comments a little too much to heart. Engineers dont like architects in the same way architects wont like engineers. There is a famous cartoon sketch depicting the different ideals of these professions (i'll find it shortly) but basically the resentment comes from Architects who produce marvelous and as you say inspiring spaces on paper which promts a client to require an engineer to then detail. An architect can draw a building within building regs but all that drawing is is essentially a piece of art. It takes details of material connections, stuctural calcs of bending moments and shear stress's plus a million other considerations before the drawings can be considered constructable. From an engineers point of view architects are a pain in the ass cos they make us look like the kill joys/boring fecks as its us who have to tell the client "Im sorry but for £500 we simply cant design and build a floating stairwell out of candy floss even though yes it would be amazing" If architects had a bit more of a grip on reality rather than drew thing artistically then maybe the engineer architect relationship would be a more balanced one. Until then engineers will be forced to look bad by the architects pretty pictures and the architects will be frustrated by the constricted nature of an engineer.

[Specialone]

I agree with leedsmatt to a certain extent, i only use them on a smaller scale but i will give my opinion anyway.
Example from the kitchen extension i have just finished...

1, Plans said for a flush ceiling in regards to steel spanning the whole width of kitchen and then another perpendicular to that so effectively taking corner of house out, the architect (and yes he was a proper one) specified these as a 10" x 6" I beam and a smaller one on the inside (cant remember what size that was), now with 6x2 ceiling joists and no way of dropping ceiling, where is excess of beam supposed to go, upwards obviously, but he never went up stairs to see the bathroom directly above which was fully tiled and fitted with furniture and client didnt want to pay for all that to be done again.
Also, with the low pitch, the beam would, i think, have projected out of the roof tiles ???
So, i went to my structual engineer who laughed first, then just said (with calcs to back this up)just use 8" x 8" I beam and thats more than enough.
We still had to put a bulkhead in to enclose beams but client was fine with that as they hadnt asked for flush ceiling anyway???

2. He had drawn the plans showing the exterior walls right on the border of the adjoining property, so if you know anything about these things you know thats not possible.
It had a party wall act on it so party wall had to stay, with guttering and fascia board you need to come from border centre line around 6-7", even the neighbour involved noticed this, the architect didnt.

Im not having a go at all architects, i have seen some top work from them, but as leedsmatt said, sometimes they design stuff that cant be built.

Phil

[Dave20046]

Architects aren't ****s it's just hard to find a good one, and like has been said there's a lot of 'technicians' pretending to be architects.

Always go by a fixed price if possible or like tazdaz said pay at milestones.

[Luckypants]

I'm well aware of the friction that can exist between architects and engineers, I used to paddle with my architect friend mentioned and a civil (but not always) engineer who specialised in building work. Many of the boring flat bits of river were enlivened by **** taking on both sides about who makes a building work.

Matt, you are the one who took those comments to heart. All I said is I do not agree with the sweeping generalisations made in the thread. As this thread is about architects fees, I wanted to provide some balance to the view that architects live in cloud cuckoo land and charge exorbitant fees. IME they are actually bright, interesting and creative people and the ones I know are rooted in the real world.

[the_lone_wolf]

I wanted to provide some balance to the view that architects live in cloud cuckoo land and charge exorbitant fees. IME they are actually bright, interesting and creative people and the ones I know are rooted in the real world.

We work with a lot of architects and they run the gamut from dour suited types to one guy who's mad as a box of frogs, and would design a house made of plasticine if you asked him to...

Almost all of them are nice people though, even if on the whole they are creative rather than technical

Only problem is they insist on using millimetres, I mean, come on... measuring a building in millimetres is like giving recipe ingredients in milligrams](*,);)


Oh, and rpwoodman, if you''re still around in this thread now it's descended into chaos, give me a shout if you need a topographical survey carried out, I'm sure I can do you a decent price;)

[Owenski]

Fair enough "calm down" was a **** poor choice of wording, it was a micheal winner calm down in my head but on forum its open to be read word for word. I appolgise mate I would have put a "lol" after your quote cos I liked how you used the phrase bad people but felt starting with a "lol" would seem condesending, as it happened my 2nd choice of wording was equally misinterprited anyway no harm done :)
I wouldnt have even posted the above had arty not stated she took offence, it was that which made me feel an explantion of my previous post was required.
Again no harm - no foul.

[Dave20046]

Fair enough "calm down" was a **** poor choice of wording, it was a micheal winner calm down in my head but on forum its open to be read word for word. I appolgise mate I would have put a "lol" after your quote cos I liked how you used the phrase bad people but felt starting with a "lol" would seem condesending, as it happened my 2nd choice of wording was equally misinterprited anyway no harm done :)
I wouldnt have even posted the above had arty not stated she took offence, it was that which made me feel an explantion of my previous post was required.
Again no harm - no foul.
Bloody civil engineers

[Lucas]

I do not understand the criticism and resentment towards architects and designers! :rolleyes:

Architects and designers are professionals like any other in the building sector, they are trained creative with a wealth of knowledge in art, design and building technology. Employed to conceive concepts, broaden vision and deliver unique solutions for client. We have defined briefs with schedule and budget, we work closely with teams of engineers, contractors who share the same ambition to deliver great projects to client and exceed their expectation.

Without architects or designers (product designers, furniture designers, transport designers), there won’t be any beautiful buildings like St Paul cathedral, Tate Modern, the Gherkin to name a few. The house that we live in will lack any aesthetic and look like east Germany in the 80’s, Ikea will have worst furniture to sell for your home, the shops you go in will be even drier and more boring, the bike you ride won’t have those lovely lines.

I trained for 5 years as an interior architect, worked on Heathrow terminal 5 for a year along side a massive team of engineers and architects, and 6 years in retail design, I can tell you that if you want good project result, the most important element for you is to put together a team that shares your vision and have very good communication skill.

And yes, we designers are aware of Function and Form! ;)

[Owenski]

Bloody civil engineers

Calm down there Dave, no need to get nasty.

[Sir Trev]

[prepares to wade in]

I will happily defend architects from my own experiences. Our initial wish list for our house extension was transformed into something practical and far, far better by an architect. She understood what we needed the extra space for, made sensible suggestions, and showed us how a few additional changes would make it all fit together far better than we had ever imagined. The creative spark and spacial awareness gave us a house we are now VERY happy with.

The plans were excellent, getting through the Planning and Building Control was no problem, the builders had everything they needed to quote from, and the proce was not too bad.

However, the previous comments about creatives not being great at project management are spot on in my experience.

Oh, and don't believe that a recession and a near death of the building trade will result in a good price for the construction work - the quotes we had were absurd three years ago and a mate who wants a nice simple loft conversion found it the same. Nobody seems to want to do any work unless they make a ridiculous profit at your expense. Compared to this the architects fees were peanuts!

[wades out before getting hit by things thrown by the "engineers"]

[Specialone]

Oh, and don't believe that a recession and a near death of the building trade will result in a good price for the construction work - the quotes we had were absurd three years ago and a mate who wants a nice simple loft conversion found it the same. Nobody seems to want to do any work unless they make a ridiculous profit at your expense. Compared to this the architects fees were peanuts!




Being a builder who does this type of work i have to say you have the attitude as most of the clients i come across.

We, or I dont make a fortune out of extensions, everybody thinks self employed people make a fortune, well, i'll tell the truth.
We make a living but you'll never get rich being a self employed tradesman.
Things are great when everything goes to plan in terms of time, budget etc etc.
But what happens when things dont turn up on time, they dont turn up at all, they turn up wrong, its me that has to absorb this cost, no one else.
If i make my wages at the end of the job its been successful, if i make a profit its a bonus.
Try and stick a bit more money on the job for contingency, you dont get them.
I got 1 out of 6 extension quotes last year, lost on price and im not expensive.
Like today, i should be finishing assembling a conservatory, doors sent wrong, got no small jobs to do so cant work today.
So, my point is, its not all roses you know there is a lot of stress attached trying to get jobs done on budget etc and to try and make some money.

[TC3]

Im a civil engineer mate, architects are ******s. Wht is it your wanting?
The architects are consultants and so if you go with an idea and then accept what ever they do for you it'll cost a lot less than if you go and ask them to amend what ever crap it is they end up drawing the first few times.

If it helps if you describe what it is your after I can knock up a couple of AutoCAD layouts no worries that will at least save you an initial back and forth expense ranging into the high hundreds. THen all you'll need it an architect to come and detail the materials for you.

Funny how architects at the practice i work at view civil engineers as ******s dont you think?

[Owenski]

Funny how architects at the practice i work at view civil engineers as ******s dont you think?

Read post 24 I say the same thing at the end. Its tit for tat, but always with a pinch of salt.

[TC3]

I am an architectual tech and wifey is an architect and partner in the company i work for.

I am not going to go into the amount of work needed to design something as we work on large scale projects but my wife has designed houses in the past (when she lived back in her home country the US of A) and she would quote exactly what the fees were and what the fees were for. She offered a full service which would include obtaining planning permission etc.

I do not know how it works in UK in regards to a small scale build such as a house. I would imagine most people must get planning permission themselves and then approach an architect. In terms of fees i would negotiate the cost for the initial plans which would also include any changes to be made (usually this is unavoidable) as the build is in progress.

A good architect will help create a building which will be as close to the vision of the customer as possible. In doing so they should take into account the materials, specifications and restrictions that will evidently shape the building. There is a lot to consider such as acoustic values, fire ratings and ventilation etc ... list goes on.

Amended after reading above post :)

[Sir Trev]

Being a builder who does this type of work i have to say you have the attitude as most of the clients i come across.

<snip>

So, my point is, its not all roses you know there is a lot of stress attached trying to get jobs done on budget etc and to try and make some money.

I'm afriad a lot of people in your line of work don't help you or the perception us clients get of builders. Even the one-man-band contractor who came to price our extension turned up in a brand new 4x4 (an SUV type thing, not a pickup). One of the others even arrived in a personal-plated S-Class Merc! The guy we picked also had an enormous 4x4 car and the builder my neighbour is currently employing turns up in an almost new 5-Series Beemer.

I'm well aware it's not the case for all builders specialone, and I'm not having a pop in any way. Just pointing out my experiences and my observations.

[Specialone]

I'm afriad a lot of people in your line of work don't help you or the perception us clients get of builders. Even the one-man-band contractor who came to price our extension turned up in a brand new 4x4 (an SUV type thing, not a pickup). One of the others even arrived in a personal-plated S-Class Merc! The guy we picked also had an enormous 4x4 car and the builder my neighbour is currently employing turns up in an almost new 5-Series Beemer.

I'm well aware it's not the case for all builders specialone, and I'm not having a pop in any way. Just pointing out my experiences and my observations.


Nah i know what you mean, im only a one man band really, ive got an 04 transit so not rich lol.
I never seem to get the big earning jobs and when i get ones that pay ok i have to put that extra money away for when i dont have any work or need to replace expensive tools etc.

Phil

[Owenski]

Its funny you say that sir trev, I used to work for a very small firm mainly individual dwellings extending upto 10plots and my old boss used to say the same sort of thing you've hinted at. In fact BMW/AUDI/MERC were all banned from the company car list as it gave people the impression the company was doing far too well it didnt matter that his weekend motor was a 911 cos he drove a vauxhall through the week.
He used to insist that an expensive full suit and a family car gave a much better impression than a shirt and trouser combo in a top of the line BMW.

[Gabriel2k]

Famous Building Services saying "All an Architect does is design a shell, its the Building Services Engineer that makes that shell comfortable."

Of course you can tell from the above that I am a Building Services Engineer, but at the end of the day I am fully aware that we are all part of a team and that no one is indespensible and in my experience Architects are just like everybody else, you get your good ones and you get your bad ones.

Next if RPWoodman is still paying attention to this thread I am a Building Services Engineer so if you need any advice/designs doing for the heating, ventilation, a/c, hot and cold water, lighting or power let me know.

Building your own house is an excellent idea but is hard work. You need to research it all very thoroughly before committing to this route.

Personally I would use an Architectural Technician for any building design, they are basically Architects that have decided not to do their last exam and whilst Architects may have all the "grand" ideas it is the Technicians that make them work and generally do all the nitty gritty stuff!

Also I think it is worth you looking into prefabricated houses, which are a lot better than they sound, once the foundations are complete they can literally put them up in a week. Most of the time the design package is included in the house price.

Another thing to consider with today’s obsession with cutting carbon emissions and energy usage would be to build a passivhaus, which is simply a house which is very efficient and will provide energy savings of about 90% over a standard dwelling. If I was constructing a new build this is certainly what I would do (Technically I would build a partially buried dwelling with an insulation umbrella as owing to the constant temperature of the ground you wouldnt need heating or cooling but thats another story).

Local planning authorities are now also putting clauses on planning permission asking for a minimum of 10% renewable on new builds. Your best way of meeting this would be to use Solar Hot Water as it has the best payback period, Heat Pumps are also effective, although for cost you would have to go for Air Source rather than Ground Source.

Here are a couple of websites to get you going:
http://www.passivhaus.org.uk
http://www.thehouseplanner.co.uk
http://www.kd-haus.co.uk
http://www.hanse-haus.co.uk

[Owenski]

Another thing no-ones mentioned, have a watch of grand designs Not for ideas as such but for an indication of the kind of issues that can and do arise when building a single dwelling.

[Luckypants]

Another thing to consider with today’s obsession with cutting carbon emissions and energy usage would be to build a passivhaus, which is simply a house which is very efficient and will provide energy savings of about 90% over a standard dwelling. If I was constructing a new build this is certainly what I would do (Technically I would build a partially buried dwelling with an insulation umbrella as owing to the constant temperature of the ground you wouldnt need heating or cooling but thats another story).

Building to PassivHaus (German standard) is very demanding and of course more expensive. The pay back being that they need no heating, taking all heat from passive heat sources such as TV, computers, human beings and pets. To reach this standard you need very tight quality control from your builder, with great attention to detail at the closures and junctions.

Personally, I don't want a house with no heating, so wont be trying to reach this standard.

[Sir Trev]

Another thing no-ones mentioned, have a watch of grand designs Not for ideas as such but for an indication of the kind of issues that can and do arise when building a single dwelling.

Watched a very interesting programme like this about a Huf Haus build. All prefabricated in Germany and brought over on trucks for assembly on site. Not my cup of tea in terms of design but fascinating all the same. http://www.huf-haus.com/gb/intro.html

Interesting comments about cars and vans guys! And it's a shame you're not more local to me (and my neighbour) speacialone - both he and I picked the sort of builder who vanishes for weeks with no communication, cannot keep to a schedule or order materials at the right time to save their lives.

[Owenski]

The huf haus with the old (fairly odd) couple?

Yeah I loved that build quite funny how the german stuff was all spot on, on time and impecable. Yet anything british was an unorganised disaster.

[TazDaz]

I take offence at your first sentence :mad: my grandfather, father and uncle were architects, and my sister is an Architectural Technician. If you don't understand their charges then you need to look into what it takes to qualify, run a business, pay staff etc.

I said I was making a generalisation with the last sentence! :smt023

It's not that I don't understand the charges, it's more to do with you commission with a near water tight contract for X amount of money and they spend considerably more and then try to claw it back despite the brief not changing in the slightest, and with no notification from them midway through that the fee needs to increase. Then if you don't pay, you then have an unhappy architect, and an unhappy contributor to a project isn't good for anyone involved! It's happened more than once on projects I've been involved with just within the past few years. I know you can say that this happens throughout the industry, but on these occasions there was no obvious cause for the additional work other than the architects wanted the schemes to look better - which is strange considering once the engineers have had their go it ends up looking completely different!

I've actually got a lot more respect and admiration for Architectural Technologists as they actually have an idea of what can and cannot be built.

For what it's worth, Planners are generally good at leading/co-ordinating projects. (No I am not a planner!:))

[Specialone]

Watched a very interesting programme like this about a Huf Haus build. All prefabricated in Germany and brought over on trucks for assembly on site. Not my cup of tea in terms of design but fascinating all the same. http://www.huf-haus.com/gb/intro.html

Interesting comments about cars and vans guys! And it's a shame you're not more local to me (and my neighbour) speacialone - both he and I picked the sort of builder who vanishes for weeks with no communication, cannot keep to a schedule or order materials at the right time to save their lives.


Thats the time of thing that really boils my carrotts, im not the best at comms, but if i cant come that day i always tell the customer.
I always take time to tell them how the projects going, any problems that arise etc.

[rpwoodman]

Oh, and rpwoodman, if you''re still around in this thread now it's descended into chaos, give me a shout if you need a topographical survey carried out, I'm sure I can do you a decent price;)

I am still around, I just didn't get a chance to log on today, so now catching up with the excitement I've missed.
I may well take you (TLW) and probably others up if my ideas come to fruition - thanks for the kind offer. I've learned a lot, and actually, it's not scared me, just made me more aware. :-)

[rpwoodman]

Next if RPWoodman is still paying attention to this thread...

Yup, still paying attention :-)
Just been busy today, so not had a chance to reply to anything in the day.

Thanks for the great info - lots to read there. My wife takes the p*ss out of me for my research, so I'll certainly do that. Sometimes, doing the research gets the idea out of my system, but all it's doing right now is exciting me! :-)

Rupert.

[rpwoodman]

Another thing no-ones mentioned, have a watch of grand designs Not for ideas as such but for an indication of the kind of issues that can and do arise when building a single dwelling.

I do watch Grand Designs - it's incredible what people can do, what they do do, and sometimes you wonder why no one pointed out to them that their ideas well, need some "refinement"... :-)
There are some beautiful creations (a castle in west Yorkshire (Peel Castle I think) was particularly good once finished - now a guest house that is entirely booked for the next year or so), and there was a dreadful one where someone built a gothic castle like something from the Adams family, but Kevin Mcloud pointed out that the fireplace was going to take over half the living room!
Things like ground exchange (?) heating look a good option, tho expensive when someone forgets it's there.

[rpwoodman]

Personally, I don't want a house with no heating, so wont be trying to reach this standard.

As long as I could have my heating at 25 degrees, I'd be happy! :-)

[rpwoodman]

Oh, and going off on a bit of a tangent, the Milau bridge is incredible! I based an entire holiday around seeing that! :-) I think my wife cottoned on pretty quickly but she put up with me... :-)
Interestingly enough, the visitor center there only mentioned Foster as a passing comment really, but I took that more to be with self-pride of the French than anything else.

Thanks for all your comments - I really appreciate them - ultimately people who are passionate and knowledgeable about their subject have opinions and by listening to a discussion, I learn, so it's all good to me.

Rgds

Rupert.

[AndyBrad]

Dont worry matt i know where your comming from having 5 mates that are architects and my dad owns a design and build company. :)

Anyhoo.... theres lots and lots to think about. Basically just sit down and give it some serious thourght before you start asking people for how much things are going to cost. anyone that can give you a balpark figure after a chat will be taking a flyer and it will either scare you or be unrealistic. Do some research into what you require and what you can actually do. Remember the planning authorities will be different in each area and there may be special considerations to take into account depending on your location and loads of other things you wont have even dreamed off.

Just dont jump in feet first. :)


but do take leedsmatts number as thats an offer you cant refuse :)

[Owenski]

I do watch Grand Designs - it's incredible what people can do, what they do do, and sometimes you wonder why no one pointed out to them that their ideas well, need some "refinement"... :-)
There are some beautiful creations (a castle in west Yorkshire (Peel Castle I think) was particularly good once finished - now a guest house that is entirely booked for the next year or so), and there was a dreadful one where someone built a gothic castle like something from the Adams family, but Kevin Mcloud pointed out that the fireplace was going to take over half the living room!
Things like ground exchange (?) heating look a good option, tho expensive when someone forgets it's there.


Peel castle was Frances Shaw (the guy who's house it was), if you remember he was an architect he designed it himself. We currently have a few libian contracts with his firm so if you'd like to contact him that isnt a million miles away from possible.

[rpwoodman]

Well this has turned out very nicely! :-)

LeedsMatt PM'd me and we started discussing the sort of thing I was looking for, on a fairly casual basis, and he suggested that I sent him over my drawings (well, drawings is bigging them up really - I'm not very good at drawing!), which I did.
A couple of days later he came back with some beautifully drawn pictures of his suggestion - much more than I expected or could have hoped for. It was really interesting seeing his interpretation of what I'd described - how he'd implement the features that were important to me and some suggestions of his own. Some of his ideas were quite different to what I'd envisaged, but how much better they were than mine (someone who had no experience of such things) and Matt very patiently answered all my dumb questions. We're still going through a refinement process so they're not complete yet, but I've started looking for suitable plots again - there is the possibility of this becoming real!!!
I can't quite believe it TBH - I may yet be scuppered by the cost of the whole thing or land availability/prices, but it's really fired up my enthusiasm for the whole thing.

So thanks to Matt, Alex (454697819) who also PM'd me with advice and offered his expertise, and everyone else who made suggestions on the thread - really very much appreciated. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Rupert.