Used car buying RANT

[metalangel]

I went to a certain well-known national chain of car dealers yesterday. I was looking to partex in my car (2002 Skoda Octavia TDI estate) for this (http://www.evanshalshaw.com/vehiclesearch/used/toyota-used-car-lg55ysn.html?qs=false&type=1) Toyota Celica.

:smt076

Well. I don't think I've ever seen a used vehicle salesman less interested in selling something. I'll try to cut a long and frustrating encounter short.

My car was undervalued by several hundred pounds (£2000) because of the inevitable scratches you get on any car that's used, and the various optional extras (integrated handsfree kit, CD changer) didn't counterbalance this.

The £250 deposit to have the car brought from the other dealer (in Middlesbrough) is in fact a £250 EXTRA CHARGE. When I asked, the car is brought by some **** driving it down. So I get to pay £250 so they can put extra mileage on the car before I even receive it. Not on the back of a truck. They advertise a super-duper HPI check on the car. But not a feature, no, this is MANDATORY (company policy I think) and also £49.99. I asked what made this check £30 better than a £3.50 text or £19.99 online check. They changed the subject.

Finally, they'll tax it for me. Because there's no tax on it, and this also is an additional charge.

Add all these together and my balance after trade-in has risen from £5,300 to nearly £6,000. When I balked at this, the salesman (who couldn't go any lower) brought in the 'sales manager' he'd spent at least 20 minutes of the last half hour or so consulting on this that and the other.

The manager asked how much I'd hoped to spend, and I said £5,000 after the trade in. He came out with the classic "my mother would love a deal like that but I couldn't even that for her". I said that they'd given a poor value for my car (I had been offered £2,300 on the weekend elsewhere which was generous but had been made generous to try and make a sale). I further explained I'd been mislead when I called yesterday about the delivery charge being a deposit and not an additional charge. And the £50 HPI check (for £50, I want to know how many times the previous owner farted into the seats, and how many of those were curry farts).

He offered to waive the delivery charge, and the HPI check, but with the additional tax disc we were still over the ****ing sticker price! I said I would go higher than £5,000 but not £900 higher!

After a few more minutes of this the sales manager abruptly stood up while saying "Well, thank you for coming in today", shaking my hand and leaving. I told the salesman the car wasn't worth that much, that there was a 04 reg with just over 40,000 miles for about £200 less on their dealer network, and did a 55 reg really balance out 25,000 extra miles for more money? He said that some dealers put an artificially high price on their cars so they can then let you haggle down to what they'd originally intended to sell it for, and then you'd be chuffed because you thought you'd gotten a deal. Quite the opposite here, eh, mate? Rather than get a bit less of £5,900, your dealership is getting all of nothing. Astonished by all this, I thanked him for his time and left.

After so much haggling, we hadn't even gotten back down to the sticker price. I am dumbfounded.

[zsv650]

what can you say car salesmen almost as bad as lawyer's.

[svdemon]

Buy private! Car dealers are the scum of the earth, the one local to me who i know through a colleauge goes to the car auctions buys a load of cars tarts them up then whacks 2-3 grand on the sticker price. Anybody can do that, if you want a warranty you can buy that yourself.

I would never buy from a dealer, buy private or from the auctions and allow a few hundred for any bits and pieces that may need doing.

[metalangel]

I don't want to sell privately, though. The last time I did it, it was such a hassle with so many weirdoes and timewasters, and I just don't have the time to be sitting around waiting for people to come and look at the car.

[zsv650]

you just have too find a good dealer yes there are a few who don't want too rip you off we know one round here who sort's us out with golf's my bro had a nice mk2 and mk3 golf off him good as gold.

[Luckypants]

Evans Halshaw = rubbish, go elsewhere, somewhere where they cannot rely on fleet sales to make up for their crap sales tactics.

[Bri w]

Go somewhere else.

If thats the service you get when they are selling, just imagine what it would be like if you go back with a problem.

[timwilky]

Well last year the daughter asked me to look at a fiesta she was considering buying from a local Arnold Clarke dealership. within 30 seconds of arriving the salesman had spotted us and was delighted to show me the car.

It was one of our demonstrators he proudly announces. Was that when it had its first crash or second that you decided to sell it I ask?

Pardon. I show him the evidence of the poor repair to the near side wing, the difference in paint colour, the wheel even has a lump out of it. I then show him the evidence along the O/S.

Are you trade he asks?. No but I have a pair of eyes. what are you prepared to pay then. About £3000 less you are asking.

We then drive down to Evans Halshaw, see a genuine ex demonstrator with 1,500 on the clock for less than the bent one at Arnold Clarke. Agree they are good at hiking the price.

HPI when it is there own vehicle, no thank you. Gap insurance no thank you, extended warranty, tank of petrol, tax. whoops suddenly they have managed to hike it up £300.

But still cheaper than the bent on down the road. Daughter happy, hands over debit card to buy car, and loves the fact her dad can tell a pushy salesman who can smell a kid with a big wad of cash where to go.

Still Evans Halshaw got told where to go on the first service, car has done 4,000 and they want to charge to replace the brake fluid. It took me less than 10 mins to do it for her.

[Gazza77]

Evans Halshaw = rubbish, go elsewhere, somewhere where they cannot rely on fleet sales to make up for their crap sales tactics.

I bought out Grand Vitara from Evans Halshaw. Agree that the customer service wasn't up to much, but that car itself did cost £2k less than any other I could find for sale anywhere in the country. Still haven't seen one for sale for as little as we paid, and we've had it for 10 months.

[-Ralph-]

Not surprised by any of this unfortunately, but did you get your £250 back?

[metalangel]

I hadn't yet paid them anything... the £250 was going to be charged once we'd agreed a sale, to cover the car being driven (not carried on a truck) down from Middlesbrough.

[appollo1]

A few years ago when i was on detachment my wofe decided she wanted to buy a people carrier. Off she went around all the dealers in Stafford area with her dad who worked for the RAC for 30 years. She finally found what she was after and told me about it. I looked on auto trader and could see the car she was going to buy. Hold on on Auto trader it was £500 less that forecourt price.
Wife goes back to dealer with this bit of information asking why it was cheaper there. How do you know that asks the salesman, well my husband is in the forces and away and he wanted to see what i was buying etc etc

10 mins later the sales manager tells her they will knock that price off as well.

During the test drive my father in law looks in the glove box and finds paperwork with the previous owners address on it. Later he phones them apologising for contacting them directly but asking if they had owned the car and did they have any problems with it. The fuel tank lining had broken up so there were bits of paint and debris going through the pipes filter or anywhere else they managed to get to. The tank had apparently been cleaned and re sealed.

Armed with this information my father in law goes back to the dealer telling them he wants the tank replaced. Dealer argues that they have already offered a good deal on the car and they did not know about the tank when they accepted it as a trade in.

Not our fault was it, so they finally agreed to replace the tank at their expense as my father in law imformed them that they would have to declare the fault to anyone else interested in the car and that they would have problems selling it unless the tank was replaced. To not declare it would be a breach of something or other.

In the end my wife got the car with a new fuel tank, the £500 extra off the price, 6 months road tax, car mats (cheapo ones though) and mud flaps.

The salesman informed her that it has cost their company over £2500 just for her to buy it.

She walked away happy in the fact that she hadn't been ripped off and her dad wouldn't have let that happen anyway.

[-Ralph-]

the £500 extra off the price

It's nice to be optimistic on a Thursday afternoon, but the way I read was "luckily we found out that the screen price was £500 more than the garage was actually intending to selling it for, therefore we realised the sales guy was ripping us off by £500, and refused to pay it"

The last car I bought from a dealer that was found via autotrader was advertised at £14995, but the screen price at the garage said £16995. It wasn't a mistake, they had dropped the price because it had sat on the forecourt for a few months, but not changed the sign in the windscreen in case somebody walked in off the street and offered £15995, it did make it the cheapest one I could find in the UK, but only by about £500-1000. It doesn't mean I got 2 grand extra off the price.

[embee]

Let's just face the facts. Dealers make a living from selling cars, so they have to make a profit, which means they put the prices up to what they think someone will be prepared to consider, and they will accept what will give them the profit margin they need, allowing for the punter to "beat them down" hence getting a "good deal". Simple.

Buying from a dealer at least gives you some protection, buying private gives almost none, caveat emptor. If you know what you're doing and don't need the p/ex or whatever, then private can be a lot cheaper, but you do need to be extra vigilant.

Decide what price is reasonable for a specific vehicle, and if you can get it for that then good, if not then go find another. If you feel the salesperson is an ar$e, tell them and walk out. Personally at the first inkling of being stitched up on charges for delivery etc, I'd walk.

There's been an item on local telly about someone who bought a car, supposedly did all the right checks and HPI came up clear, but it was a clone. Car taken off him.

[davepreston]

go to arnold clarks in leyland ask for dan ,then slap irksy in the face and say you best do me a great deal or im going to rape your org account then his facebook, of course i do this for fun but id say he keep you right :)

[suicidesam]

Think it all depends on the branch that you deal with, Got royaly bumped with one branch of Clarks few years back, traded the bag of junk that i was left with in at another branch who were fantastic to deal with.. apart from the trade-in price!
Replaced my car in October, started off at another Clarks since they had the exact spec of car i was looking for at 9K, trade-in price i was offered was a shocker, payed £7100 for the passat i traded, owned a year and mileage changed from 52k to 63k they offered me £3200!
Rang my mate who is the manager of a Halshaws in the Middlesbro' area, he laughed at the trade-in price and offered me £5400 against a 9K car (an 05 rather than 04 i was looking at up here) that he could bring in from another branch. Ended up taking a few days holiday, saving a few grand and picked up my new car while doing some touristy stuff :cool: Didnt get charged for the car being moved from Doncaster up to Bro' either!
...Also Golf 2.0 gt tdi 9k there, Clark wanted 10k for the same spec/mileage car in glasgow branch!

[Ed]

what can you say car salesmen almost as bad as lawyer's.

:rolleyes:

[svdemon]

Fire your car through the auction, easy!

[yorkie_chris]

Don't they have to HPI it by law anyway?

I'd never buy from a dealer. Sure there's no warranty private but the money you save can probably buy you another one. And I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone in their right mind would need to spend more than a grand on a car, you're going to use it to go to the shops in, it will be slow, you will sit in traffic.
£5-7K on a CAR? You could have a minter suzuki engined bimota for that with change left over...

Yeah they need to make a profit, but they do take the pee with it, how's about sell what you're f*ckin selling at whatever price you can get for it and if people want it they'll friggin buy it.

[Jabba]

To Metalangel.....

Try the CarShop on Penarth Rd. The most pleasant buying experience I've ever had. No pushy salesmen, price you pay is the price on the screen - they don't haggle - and the price on the screen is the price they paid for the vehicle plus a fixed mark-up.

Lots to choose from, too.