Tips for clutch/worm drive setup

[thedonal]

Hi all,

I've had a bit of a search on this, but I'm sure there was a thread that had a really good description of how to set the worm drive up.

I recently took it apart to clean and relube (sprayed with silicone lube).

When re-assembling, I had the lever down as low as it'd go and the worm drive screw a few turns out,

The gear change is still quite clunky though and it's not fully disengaging (only slightly though- just feel a slight pull when revving in 1st). Oil level is good, chain tension is pretty good.*

So- I guess I need to know how the turns of the screw affect the clutch mechanism so I can work it out- ie what difference does it make when the screw's further out?

* On a side note, I have discovered how much easier (as well as cheaper) it is to clean the chain with paraffin- seems to work far better than specific chain cleaners. Though once it's on, it does tend to repel water- I found this when rinsing. I guess it's not too much of a problem- gave it a good lube after. The chain looks new now!

[beabert]

Looks at it as there being two pieces of metal with a gap between them, pulling in the clutch lever pushes one piece of metal into the other. The larger the gap the more you have to pull the lever before the the one pieces of metal touches the other, closing the starting gap between the two pieces operates the clutch sooner. You set this gap by screwing in and unscrewing the worm drive.

You can even close the gap completely and go further and even engage the clutch just by turning the worrm drive all the way in so your the clutch lever does nothing at all.

Adjust it so it just touches, or say a quarter of a turn off, then you can rule out it being the problem, (assuming you clutch lever/cabble is adjusted correctly) mine problem was crap/too much oil.

[thedonal]

Fantastic- Cheers Beabert.

[LK-SV]

Where is Mr Worm-drive himself ??

Alpinestars !! :-)

[embee]

The worm drive needs some decent general purpose grease, something like Castrol LM or equivalent. Fully pack the ball bearing helix with grease.

There's a "gospel according to Sid Squid" for setting the clutch mechanism somewhere, search and ye shall find, but in short -

fully slacken off the cable,
ensure the worm drive lever is fully down (clockwise),
loosen the locknut and turn the centre screw in until it just touches the pushrod,
back off something like 1/8 to 1/4 turn and
gently nip up the locknut.

Adjust the handlebar end of the cable fully in (i.e. slack)
take up most of the cable slack at the lower adjuster down near the sprocket
fine adjust the cable slack at the hadlebar lever

It's a good idea to lube the cable well too, I use a small plastic bag with the corner cut off, slip over the loose cable end and secure with rubber bands or tape, fix it upright and add some clean engine oil or similar into the "funnel" and allow to seep down the cable for a few hours or until it starts emerging from the lower end.

That should get you more or less right.

[thedonal]

Blinding. Cheers.

I think the bit I'm missing is not paying attention to how close the screw is to the pushrod.

How loose should the lever be? Even though I get it slightly tighter, it always ends up with about 10-15mm of free play..

[Alpinestarhero]

Where is Mr Worm-drive himself ??

Alpinestars !! :-)

Bonjour!!!

I figured it had all been covered already so no need for my input

not that its really my own input, I'm just a parrot for what others have told me :king:

[thedonal]

Incidentally, how do you tell it's touching the pushrod? Is it a feel thing? Doesn't look, from memory, like it'd be easy to see, you see.

[Alpinestarhero]

You can feel it stop easily winding in...like when you do up a bolt and you feel it tighten. Just as it first starts to meet resistance, stop, and back off 1/8th to 1/4 a turn :) adjust cable slack aferwards

[thedonal]

Brill- I'll take the relevant tools with me to the folks this weekend and have a fiddle (oo-er)- too dark after work to do that...

It's not actually that bad, but I'd like to get the hang of doing it right first time- rather than set it up, take it to the end of the road, adjust it, ride again and then find out halfway through the week that it needs more adjustment...!! That sort of behaviour is dull and IT HAS TO STOP. NOW. :D

[Alpinestarhero]

its not too hard actually, just go slow and check a few times before you put it all back together. If I can do it all on my own, without even having to have my dad watching over my shoulder, then anyone can do it :D just remember to re-tighten the cable...the first time I did mine, I forgot about the cable, and the biting point was very close to the lever...d'oh!

[thedonal]

Last summer, I did it before heading down to the folks.

But didn't tighten the lock nut up proply.

And didn't have much clutch control for the rest of the journey!

Had to get some sockets from the cheap shop (Highcliffe is a small town in Dorset. Very small!). The driver that came with them had a plastic handle that wore off the first time I tried to get the sprocket cover off. Made do with using some of Dad's tools to drive the cheap sockets (he hasn't a socket set but had some socket drivers I could use!) to improvise and got it sorted! Never again...

[noob-saibot]

The worm drive needs some decent general purpose grease, something like Castrol LM or equivalent. Fully pack the ball bearing helix with grease.

There's a "gospel according to Sid Squid" for setting the clutch mechanism somewhere, search and ye shall find, but in short -

fully slacken off the cable,
ensure the worm drive lever is fully down (clockwise),
loosen the locknut and turn the centre screw in until it just touches the pushrod,
back off something like 1/8 to 1/4 turn and
gently nip up the locknut.

take up most of the cable slack at the lower adjuster down near the sprocket
fine adjust the cable slack at the hadlebar lever

It's a good idea to lube the cable well too, I use a small plastic bag with the corner cut off, slip over the loose cable end and secure with rubber bands or tape, fix it upright and add some clean engine oil or similar into the "funnel" and allow to seep down the cable for a few hours or until it starts emerging from the lower end.

That should get you more or less right.

Why is it always quoted as being this way? Even in this nice illustrated thread the bold text above appears. http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=126381&highlight=adjusting+clutch Unless im going mad is this not completely different to what the manual states :confused:

ie - position lever to correct angular position first (80-85 degrees) which is normally close if not the lever at the all the way down position. Then you do your worm drive. Then you dont touch the lever position / adjuster lock nuts, you take slack up at the cable.

Sorry, but if you take up the cable slack at the step above by messing with the lever position are you not then immediately pushing the worm drive onto the pushrod, thus negating setting a free distance by turning the worm drive adjuster out?

[thedonal]

Not really- most of the slack is taken up with the adjusters at the sprocket end of the clutch cable (coarse tuning). Fine tuning at the top end is just that-

You should have enough slack here to allow yourself to set where the biting point is most comfortable for your use of the bike, but not so little that the lever is tight against it's mount when you release it- or the clutch will be slipping all the time.

Which is what I got from Embee's post- deal with the cable adjusters at the sprocket end first, before messing with the lever.

Incidentally- I've yet to lube the cable. Will do that in the near future...

[noob-saibot]

Not really- most of the slack is taken up with the adjusters at the sprocket end of the clutch cable (coarse tuning). Fine tuning at the top end is just that-

You should have enough slack here to allow yourself to set where the biting point is most comfortable for your use of the bike, but not so little that the lever is tight against it's mount when you release it- or the clutch will be slipping all the time.

Which is what I got from Embee's post- deal with the cable adjusters at the sprocket end first, before messing with the lever.

Incidentally- I've yet to lube the cable. Will do that in the near future...

but if you set up the worm drive and then start messing with the sprocket end adjusters to change the lever are you not then negating the adjustment you've made to the worm drive by now pulling the lever up and in turn deleting the space created between worm drive and push rod ?

Just trying to work it out in me pea brain as this is the bit that always gets me whenever i read these threads ;)

[embee]

Of course the manual is correct, just that in practice if you let the worm lever go right to the stop (i.e. cable fully slack), and then back the centre screw off about 1/4 turn and nip the locknut, you'll find that the take up will be at more or less what the manual says (just shy of a right angle).

In theory the manual method is to get the clutch operating range (pushrod actually moving the clutch pack) equally around 90deg between cable and lever where it will be working at its best.

As thedonal says, the lower cable adjuster takes up most of the slack, and leave yourself fine adjustment at the handlebar end so you can fiddle with it easily.

Common sense says check the actuation once it's all adjusted and see that the lever works around 90deg, before refitting the cover. Once you've done it a couple of times it'll all make sense.

[thedonal]

You shouldn't be- if you tighten it to the point that you're moving the screw onto the pushrod, then you're basically overtightening it- the lever would also be pulled taught at that point. If you leave some slack for fine adjustment, it won't move the worm drive at all.

Once you adjust the screw, it's held in place by the locknut- so the gap there won't change until you set it up and pull the lever in- which its is what should be happening.

edit- oops- beat me to it Embee!

[beabert]

The riding configuration and diagnositic configuration will be different, to test if was the cable you would have the clutch all the way out for full range of motion, then if the problem persists you know for a fact its not the cable or the worm drive. If you see where im coming from.

For riding, have it set anyway your comfortable with i say, as long as its all tight and safe.

[noob-saibot]

but im finding that when the lever adjuster is all the way in and the sprocket area adjuster (6) is all the way down and the lever (7) is at its 'fully down' position thats its more or less at the specified 80 odd degree angle. Then I do my worm adjustment. If i start to then take up cable with the sprocket area adjuster (6) like the pic below then do i not start to engage the clutch?

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6060/dsc7329.jpg

[beabert]

For riding configuration, I personally i would get it all set how i want it first, then check the worm drive last to make sure its in the proper optimal position :)

[Sid Squid]

How loose should the lever be? Even though I get it slightly tighter, it always ends up with about 10-15mm of free play..If your lifter is not worn, then personal preference. If your lifter is anything other than perfect there will be some* lost motion in the assembly.
*Assuming there isn't lots that is, they do not last well.

Incidentally, how do you tell it's touching the pushrod? Is it a feel thing? Doesn't look, from memory, like it'd be easy to see, you see.Wind the locknut out such that it's nowhere near the lifter - it mustn't interfere with the free movement of the screw. Make sure the screw is perfectly free in the lifter - if it isn't it'll make it difficult to judge when it contacts the pushrod.

Why is it always quoted as being this way?If your lifter is perfectly new and unworn you can adjust it like it says in the manual, it'll be about right. In any other circumstance follow my guide - when there's any wear at all in the lifter anything other than fully down will waste lift and at least make it harder to achieve a useable adjustment.

but if you set up the worm drive and then start messing with the sprocket end adjusters to change the lever are you not then negating the adjustment you've made to the worm drive by now pulling the lever up and in turn deleting the space created between worm drive and push rod ?If the lifter were unworn, then yes, it probably would, as the lifter almost certainly has some wear the initial lift of the lever does nothing - the lifter screw turns but does not push away from you as the lifter arm rises.

Understanding what's happening when the lifter is other than entirely unworn means it won't function right unless the 'revised' information is followed. I have done this a lot and I assure you this is good, practical information that comes from experience with this and other Suzukis that use either the same or a very similar assembly.

And Again!

Slacken off cable adjusters at top and bottom, loosen lifter locknut, back out screw a bit, ensure that lifter arm is as far down as it will go, gently turn screw in until it contacts pushrod, back it out a bit, (~1/8th of a turn), then nip up the locknut, roughly adjust cable with lower adjuster - not too tight - then with top adjuster ensure that there remains a little slack all the way from lock to lock.

[noob-saibot]

So how can I tell if my lifter is in good working order and I should go with one method or the other?

[Sid Squid]

Slacken the cable off, then adjust the lifter screw to no slack, (but only just, it musn't be screwed in at all - just touching the end of the pushrod). If the lifter arm moves up and down more than a tiny bit - it's worn. In practice more than about 4-5mm and it can get difficult to get the adjustment right - but this is heavily dependant on wear in the clutch assembly itself.

[noob-saibot]

Slacken the cable off, then adjust the lifter screw to no slack, (but only just, it musn't be screwed in at all - just touching the end of the pushrod). If the lifter arm moves up and down more than a tiny bit - it's worn. In practice more than about 4-5mm and it can get difficult to get the adjustment right - but this is heavily dependant on wear in the clutch assembly itself.

Cool ;) Pretty sure when Iv done this in the past and the arm will only move maybe 2mm at most but i'll try it again and see

[steveg]

Replaced my worm drive @ 45k as was completely knackered , made a huge difference and could get perfect adjustment easy after

Lovely light clutch

Cheers Steveg

[noob-saibot]

ok..

See ive just done mine the Sid Squid way, yet when i did this it was no good. Had to go and undo the lock nut and back out the adjuster another 1/8 of a turn. By adjusting the cable at the worm drive end after adjusting the worm drive correctly I was now appearing to be making contact with no lever pull.

This is what I was getting at before :-s Im being annoying now amnt I :D

[thedonal]

Replaced my worm drive @ 45k as was completely knackered , made a huge difference and could get perfect adjustment easy after

Lovely light clutch

Cheers Steveg

sounds like a plan- how much are they? Ball park if it wasn't recent...

[Alpinestarhero]

sounds like a plan- how much are they? Ball park if it wasn't recent...

I seem to recall paying £40 or something like that

[steveg]

£33 quid + VAT

Cheers Steve

[madnlooney]

i think i need to adjust my clutch too. It seems to be grind when going from 1st to 2nd like its not fully disengaged. from 2nd onwards is find though

[Alpinestarhero]

i think i need to adjust my clutch too. It seems to be grind when going from 1st to 2nd like its not fully disengaged. from 2nd onwards is find though

Do try adjusting the clutch worm drive first. Also ensure your chain tension is correct, and the chain is properly lubed. I've found that engine oil level can affect the gear changes aswell...so check this too :D do you have any problems engaging neutral?

[madnlooney]

no neutral is fine. i took abit of slack off the lever this morning so need to test it again. Ive tighten the chain but seens to slacked quickly which makes me think new chain could be needed soon

[doser]

I've just had a revealing couple days tweaking (fighting?) with clutch adjustment and coping with clutch drag before-and-after an oil change. I'll post up and back-reference the thread once it's live. Executive summary: topping up with a small proportion of Pennzoil API-SM (automobile) oil caused a significant drag problem - my scheduled oil change to (my usual) Motul 5100 (motorcycle) synthetic solved the problem... but I had to wait two days for the effect...

[Alpinestarhero]

I've just had a revealing couple days tweaking (fighting?) with clutch adjustment and coping with clutch drag before-and-after an oil change. I'll post up and back-reference the thread once it's live. Executive summary: topping up with a small proportion of Pennzoil API-SM (automobile) oil caused a significant drag problem - my scheduled oil change to (my usual) Motul 5100 (motorcycle) synthetic solved the problem... but I had to wait two days for the effect...

Ah, you've found out something here...engine oil specified for cars is not suitable for motorcycles! Car oil has more friction-reducing compounds than motorcycle oil, hence you get more clutch slip, which causes more clutch heat, which can cause more clutch drag. Car oil only has to lubricate the car engine; motorcycle oil must lubricate the engine AND the gearbox AND the clutch.

Also, car oil may not be able to cope with the (potentially) higher engine speeds of motorcycle.

In anycase, if your bike engine oil is low, and all you can grab is car oil...its better than nothing, and clutches are easier and cheaper to change than a seized engine :D

You may want to flush out the new oil, in order to get ride of any remaining car oil and refill with fresh motorcycle oil again :)

Matt

[doser]

Ah, you've found out something here...engine oil specified for cars is not suitable for motorcycles!



Dead on, Matt. And (as promised) I posted up my experiences in a separate thread:

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2176372#post2176372

Learning from the mistakes of others is easier than learning from your own! Provided you DO learn, that is...

Cheers,