Regulator chat thread.

[5hort5]

OK, it's been a interesting day, I went to get my tyres fitted from F&P and to start with my battery was a bit flat so I charged it for 30 mins, stuck it on the bike and it fired, I went for fuel a mile away and it started again no probs, I went the 35 odd miles to F&P had my tyres fitted and it started fine. On the way back it was snowing so I had my lights on, I got to within half a mile of my house, pulled up at a set of traffic lights and didn't keep a bit of throttle on and it stalled (see carb related problem thread), anyway, the battery was dead, starter would just turn but wouldn't fire, not enough power, so I ended up pushing my bike home in 1/2 inch of snow - not fun and not best pleased.

Anyway! below is a chronilical log of events and volts from this evening:

5:20pm - Bike wont start - Battery out of bike and on the table - 12.18 Volts
5:35pm - Battery charging using a 12v 300ma charger - 12.64 volts
6.06pm - Still charging - 12.82 volts
6.32pm - Finished charging (well enough to start the bike) - 12.87 volts

6.36pm - Battery on the bike and started up

at 2k rpm 13.26 to 13.35 volts
at 5k rpm 13.20 volts
lights on 12.60 volts at 1.5k rpm
1 minute later this has dropped to 12.34 volts
just the side lights on and not the main lights 12.95 volts
after 30 seconds it has climbed to 13.10 volts with just sides
after another 30 seconds climbed to 13.19 volts at 1.5k rpm and 13.14 volts at 5k rpm


Next I switched the lights off and left it idling and it got upto 13.40 volts then it dropped back to 13.15 volts and stayed there for about 20 seconds then jumped to 13.38 volts then climbed to 13.41 volts and then dropped back to 13.15 volts (no rpm changes)

Turned the ignition off and it was 12.97 volts and after a smoke it had dropped to 12.88 volts.

I'll leave it attached and see how much it drops. (or should I do something else)

so it seems that turning my lights on kills the battery, the bulbs are Phillips X-tremes H4's 12v 60/55 watt. I tend to like riding with my lights on which isn't going to work but what am I up against here, knackered battery, Reg Rec issue, bad earth, cables rubbing or all of the above.

What should I do next?

Many Thanks

[Taipan]

I would think its your reg/rectifier. When running you should see 13.8 - 14.4v no matter what load you put on. My old Blade would run all ady with the lights off and keep the battery charged as per normal. Put the lights on and it would just drain the battery down. Needed a new reg/rectifier and all was well again.

[beabert]

join the club lol, im after a cbr rectifier as we speak, except my problem is high voltage, 17 volts!

[noob-saibot]

Yep id say reg rec failing.

I know its not the end of the world if you dont, im sure a new one would be fine but for probably less money you can upgrade your system to a mosfet reg rec, either an FH08 from recent cbr's etc or an FH10 from zx10/14 fjr1300 etc. Bit of wiring and bobs your uncle.

Just did my curvy with an FH010 as I couldn't ride with my main beams on. Now I get 14.7 at idle and 14.5 with lights. No fluctuation even throughout the rev range :D

Not too sure what the story is if its a pointy though.
Here's a fault finding guide to help..
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/fault-finding-guide.php

[5hort5]

ah well, day time riding only then, thanks for the input chaps and I'll be fighting with you beabert on ebay lol

So it's the reg rec, has anybody compiled a list of what will fit straight on, what'll fit with a few mods and what'll fit but you need to have a phd in bikes (like YC)? I feel a post trawl coming on if no ones has.

[beabert]

You want a mosfet one, thingy above just named the 3 that most use. The fh008 one from the cbr is small like the svs and will fit in the same space, the fh0012 wont you will have to move it, the fh010 im not sure.

fh008 is cheapest 2006 cbrs onwards.

They are all indentical to connect its just the plugs that are different.

[beabert]

you just keep your mitts of the ones i bid on lol

http://eviltwinsbk.com/forumz/index.php?topic=276.0

[5hort5]

What's fh00XX beabert, is that the model or year of the honda or something completely different?

[noob-saibot]

It the coding thats stamped on the bottom of the reg rec. Has nothing to do with year or make of bike.

If you do get an FH010 or a FH012, as beabert said they wont fit where the original is. My FH010 now lives in the pillion seat storage happy out. Have had the bike out for hours and then checked it and it was barely warm if at all, so its fine there imo

[beabert]

yep as above, so make sure the model number starts with an f, that way you know its a better quality mosfet. 2007 onwards on a cbr have the fh008and some 2006's

yamaha r1 / fj for the fh 12
zx10 zx14 for fh 10

[5hort5]

ok, so I'm after pretty much the following:

reg/rec with a part number of FH008, FH010 or FH012 (or just starting with F?) from any bike,
any year from say 2000 onwards
noting though that FH010 and FH012 are larger and need a different home

maybe this one if it meets the above :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/regulator-rectifier-cbr-929-954_W0QQitemZ120523707647QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mot orcycle_Parts?hash=item1c0fc5d4ff#ht_500wt_1182

http://eviltwinsbk.com/forumz/index.php?topic=276.0 - mmm - that looks complicated

[beabert]

first link no! lol cbr 2007 onwards.

Not hard at all i promise lol.

[beabert]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-CBR600-CBR-600-RR7-2007-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER_W0QQitemZ170441411533QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item27af198bcd

Thats one i think. (fh008 ) note the shape its not square on one end.


fh012 ( the best one 50amp) looks like this, note the shape and connection type

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-R1-TDM900-FJR1300-Regulator-Rectifier-Assembly_W0QQitemZ270519911567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item3efc3e448f

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-R1-02-03-5PW-current-voltage-regulator-rectifier_W0QQitemZ310188974781QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_Motorcycle_Parts?hash=item4838b422bd

Im skint until my items are sold so im not in the market lol.

[noob-saibot]

The first one has the code SH on the bottom if you look close. This is not what you want as its the same type as the one you have.

[beabert]

I just won a FH0014 for £18! woo hoo

[noob-saibot]

Whats an FH014 from? lol

[beabert]

Newest cbr1000 according the web eviltwinsbk.

[yorkie_chris]

Actually with uniformly slightly under-volting like that I would check all the wiring voltage drops before buying a new reg rec

[beabert]

Do you have a multimeter with a diode test function? you can test it first. Mine measurements were way out, assuming i have done it correctly.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1020/capturehf.png

[Dave20046]

Do you have a multimeter with a diode test function? you can test it first. Mine measurements were way out lol.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1020/capturehf.png
Does that not suggest the alternator's at fault?

[yorkie_chris]

Set it to AC-Voltage and see what it is putting out, you should have some decent voltage there. 70V-AC at 5krpm or more.

[beabert]

From my understanding, which aint much, you completely disconnect the rectifier from the bike. The diode function outputs voltage to see how much it takes to overcome diode potential.

Mines are all out of spec.

No tested the alternators output on mine yet, as above it should be 70

[yorkie_chris]

I don't trust diode test of Reg-Rec. I've had a couple check out tip-top and be completely knackered.

See what's going into it and what's coming out of it, if those aren't the problem then you know it is the RR.

[beabert]

I see where your coming from, especially because of how hot they get.

Mine checks out knackered to start with and outputting to high of a charge, so im confident its gone tits up, not to mentioned a knackered battery.

[yorkie_chris]

Almost certainly :-)

There would have to be a very wierd problem to get an over-volt situation with something other than the reg-rec at fault.

[beabert]

I have had no end of weird problems in my 25 yeas on this planet lol. I dont fo a minute expect everything to go as planned, some git has probably added extra windings lol.

[5hort5]

Actually with uniformly slightly under-volting like that I would check all the wiring voltage drops before buying a new reg rec

Hi Chris,

when you say "check all the wiring voltage drops" what does that mean to someone who has never touched wiring before?

Thanks

[beabert]

I think what he is getting at is if the rectifier is recieving a lower voltage than normal, then the voltage levels across the board will be all uniformly lower in all tests (light on etc), and if the voltage levels are all over the place then its more likely to be the rectifier.

Check the voltages entering the rectifier first :-) ill post a picture of the page from the manual, one sec....


http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2996/captureue.png

[beabert]

Another one here 5hort5

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/honda-cbr-1000-rr-fireblade-reg-rec-09_W0QQitemZ360228071763QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Moto rcycle_Parts?hash=item53df442953


Cant get the fancy connectors for these, but spade terminals work fine.

[5hort5]

Tomorrow I will mainly be in the garage - again

[beabert]

Tomorrow I will mainly be in the garage - again

Its all good fun :D

[yorkie_chris]

Hi Chris,

when you say "check all the wiring voltage drops" what does that mean to someone who has never touched wiring before?

Thanks

With it all connected up see if the outputs from the reg-rec are losing your charge.

I.E set meter to DC-V and put on contact in the back of the regreg connector on the live, other one to the battery live. If there is a big voltage drop here you have a high resistance which is losing your volts for you.

[5hort5]

ok - so the results from some of the tests.

YC - your voltage drop question above, I get 0.13 volts at idle (not sure if that's good or bad) - should I try it at revs and with the lights on?

Next test - Alternator output, on all three yellow wires it was reading 85volts at 5k rpm so I think that's good. Also with engine off the resistance read at 1 ohm for all wires

Doing a diode test of black and red to the three yellow wires on the RR, they all read ones?

So where does that leave me? (apart from with a multi meter and an RR on my lap typing this?

[yorkie_chris]

0.13V is ok ... if it is like 2 or 3 volts you have a big problem there because you are losing a lot of power somewhere.

(P = IV so if your bike is drawing 20A then you are losing 40-60W of power, this will show as a very hot connector or wire somewhere)

[5hort5]

mmm - hunt for a hot wire time. Does the RR sound ok then?

[yorkie_chris]

Sounds like a reg rec fault because:

a) you just checked for a power loss across the reg-to-battery wiring and found it within reasonable limits
b) you just checked the alternators output and found it to be healthy

So you are putting power into the regrec and it ain't coming out.

[5hort5]

cool - ok well I got bored and had a hunt round a couple of local breakers and no joy on the later models so off to fleebay to have a look it is.

[5hort5]

I just won a FH0014 for £18! woo hoo

mmm 18 quid that sounds like a very good price m8, is 35 quid a reasonable price for one of these or way over? Someone a work has one for 35 so may go for it?

[Owenski]

lol how popular is reg/rec failure lately. I've been informed my FH008 is on its way hopefully have the curvy up and running shortly.

[5hort5]

Must be the weather, lets just say I have plans of greatness for my knackered one ;-)

[Sid Squid]

I don't trust diode test of Reg-Rec. I've had a couple check out tip-top and be completely knackered.
The diode checks can be useful if you have a current leak that's traced back to the reg-rec, but only for that purpose, the diodes make up the rectifier, not the regulator.

[5hort5]

Here's a question, working on the assumption I get my hand s on one tomorrow, the yellow wires, are they just the three phases of AC then? if so does it matter which way you wire them up? Also on the off chance its has two reds and two black wires do I just solder them together into one connector?

[beabert]

Yellow ones anyway round, Yes to the other question.

£35 is a good price. 50-60 is normal, mine came to just under £35 with postage, try get one thats done little milage.

[yorkie_chris]

the yellow wires, are they just the three phases of AC then? Yes

if so does it matter which way you wire them up? No

Also on the off chance its has two reds and two black wires do I just solder them together into one connector? Yes

IMO it is better to put the red and black direct to battery with thick wire, ring terminals and an inline 20A fuse. But it will probably be fine feeding into stock wiring :-)

[beabert]

IMO it is better to put the red and black direct to battery with thick wire, ring terminals and an inline 20A fuse. But it will probably be fine feeding into stock wiring :-)

Exactly what im doing, i might run my own wires from alternator too, ill see how i feel.

[5hort5]

Yellow ones anyway round, Yes to the other question.

£35 is a good price. 50-60 is normal, mine came to just under £35 with postage, try get one thats done little milage.

Not sure about the mileage and zero postage so I'll have that and see how it goes, I hope you are right about these FH014's lol - I should have the little so and so connected by the end of tomorrow if all goes well and then I can turn my attention to the troublesome idle and carbs on the weekend (fingers crossed).

Fancy a carb party at mine Neeja, tools, coffee, spare carbs for parts if needed ;-)

[5hort5]

Exactly what im doing.

ok, yer cool, can do that, 20 amp though, I read on that twin site it need to be a 30 or is that for the bigger twins? Do maplins do the holders for em ???? - off to google :-)

[beabert]

Lol @ carb party.

[yorkie_chris]

An assumption on my part that if the electrics can draw no more than that from the battery (main fuse), they will not draw more than that from the charging circuit.

Feel free to correct me, but also I cannot see why a 30A fuse would not be perfectly safe also to protect against fire if a wire was worn through.

[beabert]

ok, yer cool, can do that, 20 amp though, I read on that twin site it need to be a 30 or is that for the bigger twins? Do maplins do the holders for em ???? - off to google :-)

I was going with 30amp too. The fh014 rectifier can put of 50amp tops ( i think), just make sure the wiring is rated above the fuse for obvious reasons lol.

The maximum drawn of the bike is way lower than 50, under 20 even. Depends what other crap you have plugged in i suppose.

[5hort5]

An assumption on my part that if the electrics can draw no more than that from the battery (main fuse), they will not draw more than that from the charging circuit.

Feel free to correct me, but also I cannot see why a 30A fuse would not be perfectly safe also to protect against fire if a wire was worn through.

Trust me when I say, correcting you on anything bike related would be the last thing I would ever do, you have more knowledge in your little finger nail than I full stop :-) what I'll do is put a twenty in and keep a thirty under the seat. 20 would be safer at the end of the day.

[yorkie_chris]

B*llocks man! Correct away, it expands the mind to think about a problem logically and question everything.

[beabert]

Trust me when I say, correcting you on anything bike related would be the last thing I would ever do, you have more knowledge in your little finger nail than I full stop :-) what I'll do is put a twenty in and keep a thirty under the seat. 20 would be safer at the end of the day.

You will only need higher if you decide to run extra appliances from the battery, you know, washines machines hoovers etc. lol

[beabert]

B*llocks man! Correct away, it expands the mind to think about a problem logically and question everything.

Yep being skeptical is a good thing.

[5hort5]

lol - when I know about the subject a bit then I will chip in :-) as for washing machine etc, nah although I lava lamp on the bike seat maybe a nice mod :-)

[yorkie_chris]

lol - when I know about the subject a bit then I will chip in :-) as for washing machine etc, nah although I lava lamp on the bike seat maybe a nice mod :-)

Ewwwww! TMI!

[5hort5]

back seat that is ;-)

[beabert]

dirty beast

[5hort5]

ok enough lava lamp business, would this fuse holder do the job:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=24539

and would I put it on the live wire?

oh - edit edit, and does it matter if it's a full size blade fuse and not the small ones (i guess not)

[yorkie_chris]

Go normal size they are easier to work with with larger wire you will need.

Yes put it on live side close to battery.

[beabert]

Looks fine to me, its the one ill probably be getting, yes on the live.

[yorkie_chris]

try vehicle wiring products for your stuff

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/fuses/holders1.php

I would use part no 210 210C and 210P ... put small self-tapper into side of subframe to hold it.

[beabert]

try vehicle wiring products for your stuff

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/fuses/holders1.php

I would use part no 210 210C and 210P ... put small self-tapper into side of subframe to hold it.

Nice one, they look alot more professional.

[5hort5]

Sound, ok, just to double check:


Get RR
Get wires rated to 50amp min
Get fuse holder and fuse (20 map + 30 just encase)
Get circle clips to fit live and neutral to the battery (rated correctly and the right size for the battery bolts)
Get spade end connectors (rated correctly)


The job:


Chop the plugs of the lume, add spades to the yellow ones (soldered), tape up the red and black (or just leave the plug on them and tape that up)
make up yellow connect wires with spades (soldered)
make up live and neutral wires with fuse close (about an inch or two) from the battery, spades on one end, rings on the other.
plug it all together
start and prey (test)


Does that about sum it up or have I missed something?

[beabert]

For the wire use the same wire as the inline fuse thing from maplin (12AWG), no need to get 50 amp wire if your using that.

[yorkie_chris]

Or you can get a fancy waterproof connector for your 3 yellows.

you know the pair of plugs with 4" of wire between them next to reg-rec? I cleaned one of those up so new reg rec would plug straight in to alternator.

It is up to you, many ways to skin a cat. So long as your connectors aren't green and fuzzy :-)

[beabert]

Or you can get a fancy waterproof connector for your 3 yellows.

you know the pair of plugs with 4" of wire between them next to reg-rec? I cleaned one of those up so new reg rec would plug straight in to alternator.

It is up to you, many ways to skin a cat. So long as your connectors aren't green and fuzzy :-)

Yes ill be axing that bit out too, might even go straight from alternator with a new run lol.

[5hort5]

nah - I'm drawling the line at going to the battery that'll do me :-)

[5hort5]

ok, here is the beast it's a FH014AA from an 09 fireblade apparently. The first pic shows the size against the stock one and the second the pins.

So my main question is which pin is the live one? It's not marked with a hardy + sign, do you know the way to test to find out which on is which on the pair on the right?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/5hort5/rr1.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/5hort5/rr2.jpg

[yorkie_chris]

Connect it up, start bike, use your voltmeter on it. If you get a +ve reading then you have your live probe to live terminal, if it is -ve then it is backwards.

[5hort5]

Wont that damage it? I'll go and make up some wires :-)

[beabert]

Love it, you actually listened to me lol big mistake

99% the left hand one, but test it.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll224/decosse01/TLS%20Electrical/Regulator/P1080429.jpg

[yorkie_chris]

Wont that damage it? I'll go and make up some wires :-)

If in doubt, ask sid squid. You basically running it open circuit (as a voltmeter has a near-infinite resistance)

If you want to be safe wire up 2 headlight bulbs in parellel on the outputs, they will give it a load to work with while not caring which way is +ve and -ve.

[5hort5]

well, I plugged it in and left it was, all pluged into the battery now and ...... drum roll ......

14.48 volts at idle with no lights
14.05 volts at idle with lights

sweet! - pics to follow although it's not really fitted yet if you know what I mean.

[Alpinestarhero]

well, I plugged it in and left it was, all pluged into the battery now and ...... drum roll ......

14.48 volts at idle with no lights
14.05 volts at idle with lights

sweet! - pics to follow although it's not really fitted yet if you know what I mean.

What about at 5000 rpm?

[beabert]

well, I plugged it in and left it was, all pluged into the battery now and ...... drum roll ......

14.48 volts at idle with no lights
14.05 volts at idle with lights

sweet! - pics to follow although it's not really fitted yet if you know what I mean.

Great :D

[5hort5]

What about at 5000 rpm?

well no difference tbh

14.43 and with lights 14.10?

[5hort5]

Pics, pic one connected to the battery direct with a circle clip, live side has a 20amp in line fuse and is working fine

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/5hort5/rr3.jpg

At the back I think i'll mount it here, X marks the spot to drill a hole (well near there anyway), there's a good inch of clearance under it and a good air gap to my solo seat cover. wires are all spade ends with heat shrink on them.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/5hort5/rr4.jpg

to connect to the alternator I used the original socket and spades but could I have plugged to the connector i'm holding instead of the one on the left with green into yellow wires?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/5hort5/rr5.jpg

[noob-saibot]

Success :smt041 :smt041

[beabert]

Nice job mate, my turn next week.

[Taipan]

http://forums.sv650.org/images/icons/icon14.gif Excellent informative thread, thanks everyone.:)

[yorkie_chris]

5hort5 I would put some spiral banding around those wires to RR to avoid any chaffing of them against subframe.

[5hort5]

thanks - yer good plan - I have man flu at the moment so feel rough but I'll get to final fixing next weekend I hope

[Owenski]

Did this with mine last night, only temp until the connectors I've ordered arrive and I can replace the SV ones but I made it to work with out breaking down so must have done something right.

[beabert]

What rectifier did you use? Still waiting for mine.

[Owenski]

personally got the cbr rr 2008 reg/rec its the fh008 I think.

[beabert]

fits nicely in the tail then :-)

[Owenski]

Spot on yeah, straight onto the original mounts no messing around. All I did was solder the original connector pins onto the wires and connected it al up. Its a temp fix cos Im waiting on some new connectors and some wires so I can be away with the pointless few inch of wire between the standard pins as pointed out by YC

[Dave20046]

Spot on yeah, straight onto the original mounts no messing around. All I did was solder the original connector pins onto the wires and connected it al up. Its a temp fix cos Im waiting on some new connectors and some wires so I can be away with the pointless few inch of wire between the standard pins as pointed out by YC
Any idea what voltages it's outputting?

[Lucas]

I'm joining this thread as I burned 2 regulators already, got a spare one on stand by! :D

[noob-saibot]

Any idea what voltages it's outputting?

My zx10 Fh010 is putting out 14.7 at idle with no lights and 14.5 with either dims or full beam. Rev to any range and no change in the slightest :D

[Dave20046]

My zx10 Fh010 is putting out 14.7 at idle with no lights and 14.5 with either dims or full beam. Rev to any range and no change in the slightest :D
I'd do it in a heartbeaton a curvy, but the pointy's a right **** to get to.

[beabert]

My turn today, it was just delivered.

[Lucas]

ah, i'm running Phillips X-tremes H4's 12v 60/55 watt on my curvy too... and ran out of juice two miles from home last night :-|

time for RR upgrade then. which RR is my best option?

thanks in advance :D

[5hort5]

fh008 i reckon as it fits straight on where the old one came from

[beabert]

Well i've been ill for weeks, but today i finally fitted mine too. 14.45v, perfect :-D

[Lucas]

I finally got a 08 r/r... Also got myself a direct to battery kit as well as a head light relay kit from Eastern Beaver:
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R_R_Connectors/r_r_connectors.html
http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Products/H4_Kits/h4_kits.html

The kit is well made and of very high quality, not the cheapest but worth every penny and recommended. A big step up from the wiring in my 99 curvy :rolleyes:

Hope this upgrade will fix the performance and power issues of head lights and r/r !

Will keep u posted.

[Lucas]

Job done! :D

Bike picnic
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421133_10150841625649018_736399017_12427416_203728 93_n.jpg

power upgrade!
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/420602_10150841625324018_736399017_12427412_751234 119_n.jpg

green or red wire?
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/419507_10150841626089018_736399017_12427421_135655 6862_n.jpg

perfect fit
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419217_10150841626344018_736399017_12427423_171489 1390_n.jpg

happy idle number
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/430773_10150841626574018_736399017_12427427_134393 3364_n.jpg

even with with low beam
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423780_10150841626829018_736399017_12427432_569327 953_n.jpg

Thanks all for your advice :D

[bikerdave]

realised my wifes 2001 sv reg/rectifier was faulty so in a fit of madness bought £13 a replacement from errr china. It all works fine now 14.2 v. But i have this nagging worry that its not going to last or will fry the electrics. bike also got a tail tidy on it which probably reduces airflow over the cooling fins. My query is...is it possible to put an in line fuse from the outgoing positive wire from the unit to protect the wiring and what amp should be best or could i just rely on the main fuse.

I just could not afford the £100 plus on e bay for the FH008 from a cbr.
Also if I did find the money would I need to upgrade any wiring to what and which bits.

Wifey uses the bike about twice a year. I put more miles on it for its MOT!!! so I really dont want to spend heaps Thanks folks