Dog insurance

[maff]

Sone of you may have seen on the news that dog owners may end up having to pay third party insurance 'just incase' your dog bites someone.

Dogs do not attack unless provoked whatever dog it is. Whos to say that this proposal comes in and people start provoking dogs to attack just to make a claim and get money out of it. How are they going to get every dog owner in the country to pay up? All dogs should be chipped is one thing i agree with, that way any dog can be traced back to the owner.

Its not the dog, its the owner. Training a dog is all well and good but the owner bears responsibility too. The owner has to have a basic knowledge of whatever dog they choose to have and if they cant prove that they can control there dog properly then the dog is taken away from them and goes to someone who knows what they are doing.

This probably doesnt make sense to some of you but this has peed me off. To think that some gormless government minister has sat on his fat overpaid @rse and come up with this ****.

Well i for one will not be paying insurance on my dog if this proposal comes through. Whats next? Insurance on cats incase they scram someone?

[yorkie_chris]

people start provoking dogs to attack just to make a claim and get money out of it.

If someone tried that crap with mine, the dog would be the least of their worries.

[TazDaz]

Well, both of my dogs have this type of insurance included with their normal health/vet insurance, so no difference to me.

[Amanda]

Yeah this made me think today too. Will they have insurance "groups" for dogs. Different dogs pose different risks so how are they going to evaluate the risks. It's all just another way of getting money out of people in this "blame culture" society.

[DarrenSV650S]

Even if it does happen, I can't see how they could enforce it effectively.

[maff]

If someone tried that crap with mine, the dog would be the least of their worries.

Exactly. If you provoke my dog and it attacks, ill just point and laugh

[Amanda]

Time to resurrect this picture again ...................... When little dogs go bad!!!






http://forums.sv650.org/picture.php?albumid=497&pictureid=3999

[Mr Farley]

If it did go through they'd probably strike up some sort of deal with insurance companies and end up lining their own pockets, thieving scum bags.

I don't reckon it will happen, but it's another good example of making a law to stop a tiny minority, that ends up negatively impacting the majority of people.

[Shellywoozle]

I already have dog insurance ... but I can see the prices jumping up as the companies catch on :( not good for responsible dog owners.

The law already has a dangerous dogs act ... this should be utilised to the best instead of going down this route.

I shall awaiting my premium to jump up

[Wideboy]

Time to resurrect this picture again ...................... When little dogs go bad!!!








your dog need its, he's nuts!! :-?

[yorkie_chris]

The law already has a dangerous dogs act ... this should be utilised to the best instead of going down this route.

We have laws against causing explosions in public places but that didn't stop them bringing in the new anti terror laws.

[Amanda]

your dog need its, he's nuts!! :-?

What can I say - he don't like any weirdos coming to the house. He is very protective towards his pack leader!!!! :D

[Wideboy]

think about it, the people that have fighting dogs tend to be breaking a fair few laws, god forbid they probably drive without a license let alone insurance..... this is all just another way to have insurance tax coming in..... money money money

What can I say - he don't like any weirdos coming to the house. He is very protective towards his pack leader!!!! :D

dam!! he's trained against internet weirdo's......... hmm:-k

[TazDaz]

My dog is known to charge people though! :p

[Amanda]

lol - literally charge of the light brigade

[timwilky]

Two years ago my daughter and I were walking my bro in laws dogs in the local park. He had died 2 days earlier and left us with the problem of an enormous bad tempered and big angry German Shepard's. They were wonderful dogs. Very loyal and trained to guard his garage. They had known me from pup so I had never had a problem with them or vice versa.

Well this day, as we walked though the park, 4 Salford idiots age about 20 walking towards the daughter dogs and 1 kicked a football at Rex who was safely on a lead held close to me and then one of them swung a stick about 6 inch from his face.

I felt my arm being ripped from the shoulder and a scream of its bitten me. I turned round to see him still walking away without a leg on his jeans.

I informed them that if he had bitten it would be his leg in Rex's mouth not the pants leg. However, I was in fear they would follow us back to get an address in order to make a complaint.

It was not the dogs fault. He had reacted to his training of what to do if threatened. Steve the brother in law had always said Rex could not be trusted with people and I had not believed him as he was always so friendly with me. Steve would take the dogs out at 4am to ensure no contact with people.

So thankfully I was able to rehome Rex with somebody who wanted a dog with his temperament. And he is happy guarding a new garage. However part of this stupid proposed law is about a dog out of control on private property. does this now mean a guard dog cannot do its job?

[dizzyblonde]

They should have a law against chavvy A*holes breeding dogs mainly Staffs, Akitas, Pitbulls etc to top up their benefits on the side, who have no idea what they are doing apart from getting their two 'vicious' dogs to mate. When I say vicious its the owners that make them that way, not by the choice of the dog.

Both of my dogs are micro chipped and insured. Chavvy a*hole breeders in my post do not do this.....maybe if they were made to pay for the privilege of owning a dog, or indeed have to hold a license like in the old days, we wouldn't have so many unruly dogs on our street.

Sorry, I have very strong views to pet ownership. Owners should be responsible for their pets at all times, its just a shame the laws that be, have only just cottoned onto the idea.

[maff]

Two years ago my daughter and I were walking my bro in laws dogs in the local park. He had died 2 days earlier and left us with the problem of an enormous bad tempered and big angry German Shepard's. They were wonderful dogs. Very loyal and trained to guard his garage. They had known me from pup so I had never had a problem with them or vice versa.

Well this day, as we walked though the park, 4 Salford idiots age about 20 walking towards the daughter dogs and I kicked a football at Rex who was safely on a lead held close to me and then one of them swung a stick about 6 inch from his face.

I felt my arm being ripped from the shoulder and a scream of its bitten me. I turned round to see him still walking away without a leg on his jeans.

I informed them that if he had bitten it would be his leg in Rex's mouth not the pants leg. However, I was in fear they would follow us back to get an address in order to make a complaint.

It was not the dogs fault. He had reacted to his training of what to do if threatened. Steve the brother in law had always said Rex could not be trusted with people and I had not believed him as he was always so friendly with me. Steve would take the dogs out at 4am to ensure no contact with people.

So thankfully I was able to rehome Rex with somebody who wanted a dog with his temperament. And he is happy guarding a new garage. However part of this stupid proposed law is about a dog out of control on private property. does this now mean a guard dog cannot do its job?

Sounds more like the dog was protecting you and youre daughter as well as itself. This is my point tho, people could start this kind of thing just to get money out of insurance companies

[Mighty Boosh]

don't know how to quote multiple replys from this thread, but here is my input..


Around 25 years ago i went to the post office with a parcel on my mums behalf.

Walking down a particlar road i saw two large german shephards teathered to thier owners front gate, i decided to pass on the oppisite side.

The further i got the more the dogs barked and pulled on the ropes holding them.When nearly drawing level the rope holding the dogs gave way, the two dogs came across the raod and i froze still, my ring was the only thing i couldn't control.

Thankfully the dogs were only intersted in the parcel i was holding, which i quickly gave up.

After a very short time an old lady of about 60 years of age came out of a nearby house and shooed the dogs off of the parcel.



Another time i went to pickup a friend, she had to take the family pitbull dog for a walk before she could come out to play.

I waited at the large security door at the bottom of the block to greet her, upon hearing her behind the door and seeing it start to open i decided to help and took hold of the top of the door and helped it on it's way.

Apparently the dog took this as a threat and decided to nip me on my calf.

More recently our family cat "mus short for mustafa" was sat on the outside wall watching the world pass when an irresponsible dog owner passed without his dog on a lead.

The dog got hold of the cat and the result was the cat had to be put to sleep. Very upsetting..


One comment i would like to highlight is the one regarding dogs on private property. please view the following link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7797370.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7797370.stm)

I agree that dog insurance isn't the answer but it may help to bring the irresponsible owners to account and provide adequate compensation to the victims.

[timwilky]

dog on private property. By all means come up my drive, knock on my door or put mail in the mailbox secured to the wall.

Try to prise open the silicon sealed letterbox (idiot window licking freeby paper delivery fool) or go through the gate at the side of my house, expect to be bitten.

[dizzyblonde]

Not sure about the private property thing.
My dogs don't like next doors cats and would eat them alive if caught, but with our own three cats they don't bat an eyelid. Well actually Honey would, Bob just follows cause hes dopey, he'd probably stand on it and wonder what to do next.
Its a tricky one that, I've seen the posty rotty thing on the news before, my dogs are nowhere near like that on their own property. Honey doesn't like the letter through the door, but shes no savage.

[Milky Bar Kid]

I don't personally agree with the idea of this new law being put in place. Not that any of our views will really matter because it sounds pretty much like the Govt is going ahead and doing this anyway in England and Wales.

I think Wideboy has hit it on the head about the point of the Chavvy scumbags who are being targeted by this law already break the law, whether it be driving with out insurance or whatever, or by owning a S1 Dangerous Dog such as a Pitbull etc. They really are not going to bother their backsides with getting an extra insurance so at the end of the day, it's just a way to make money out of the already pretty responsible owners.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is only the Chavs dogs who bite. Sometimes well behaved, well trained dogs do end up biting, although normally this is as a result of having been provoked. Although, some breeds are known for suddenly turning for no reason.

The other problem I see with it is attempting to enforce this law. There are millions of dogs in this country. What are the Govt intending on doing with uninsured dogs? Are they just going to have them put down or are they going to attempt to rehome them? Either way, it will cost a fortune. And is there going to be some nation database put in place? Are people out walking their dogs on a Saturday morning in the park going to be issued with Producers by the lcoal dog wardens etc to prove that they have an insurance certificate in relation to their ownership of said dogs?

[yorkie_chris]

to prove that they have an insurance certificate in relation to their ownership of said dogs?

In which case Mr Micheal Mouse of Disney Drive is going to be getting a lot of "dog license points" for failing to produce!

Really, what a load of b*ll*cks it all is :smt081

[ophic]

Dogs do not attack unless provoked whatever dog it is.
Unfortunately just not true. Most do not. Some do.

[gruntygiggles]

Dogs do not attack unless provoked whatever dog it is.

Untrue. I have to disagree with this as there is such a thing as an unprovoked dog attack, they happen all the time. Some dogs just become aggressive, usually through fear based behavioural issues and learn that the best form of defence is attack, therefore they can see something as simple as a fast movement of an arm or a person holding their gaze for more than a few seconds as a threat and attack.

You can have a dog and a child happily lying on a sofa together and the child may simply move a hand a few inches and the otherwise perfectly behaved dog will feel threatened and will attack.

The major problem with dogs is the owners, that I totally agree with. But not so much that the owners don't discipline their dogs enough...more that they put far too much trust in them. I love my dogs more than I can put in words, but I can honestly say, I would never trust any dog, even the nicest, softest dog in the world as they are unpredictable by their very nature.

Most fatal dog attacks are on children and they are killes by a dog in their own family...because the parents say things like "oh, the dogs amazing with kids" and so relax and get complacent. One day, that child does something that is normal to humans, but triggers a reaction in the dog and game over.

As for the proposed laws, I would love to see licensing again, but doubt it will happen. My dogs are covered 3rd party in their insurance already and if they put the price up, I'll pay it because I'm a responsible owner.

I can't see there being too many cases of provoking dog attacks just to get a claim because most dogs would just ignore it and the kind of dog that would react and bite, should be on a lead with a muzzle on. I don't walk one of our collies without his muzzle because I don't trust him. He's the softest, most loving dog in the world when he knows you, but when he doesn't, I know he'd nip if he felt threatened. If someone provoked an attack and the dog did react, wellit would only be able to if not under the full control of the handler.....so not the dogs fault. If it happened and the dog was off the lead, well....the dog owners would have to take the responsibility. If you bought a car and were told that if you don't keep the fuel tank at least half full, the brakes would fail, you would either fix the problem or make sure you always had more than half a tank of fuel in......so you didn't cause an accident. Likewise, if you know your dog can have issues with people......put a muzzle on it or keep it on a lead and under your control.

I honestly think that it would be just as prudent to fine people for back yard breeding as it would to microchip and insure. Our vet insists that any animals registered with him be nuetered unless they are registered breeding dogs belonging to owners registered to breed (or something like that). He's fed up with the amount of puppies being badly bred and sold to owners that want a status dog. There are not enough homes for the dogs in this country as it is.

I do agree with what you're saying and unfortunately, it will never be black and white enough to find a proper solution.

Maybe postal workers can register an address where they feel the dogs pose a threat to them and then they can insist on a lockable postbox to be fixed to the exterior of the property/fence so that they never have to enter a property where threatening dogs are loose?

Who knows. I don't want to pay more, but something needs to be done. As for dog attacks on private property, I honestly think that if you know you have a dog that may bite someone, don't leave it unattended where people may come into contact with it, even your own garden. At least put a muzzle on.

Sorry, long post and I'm all confused now and can't remember what I've written...lol

[Mighty Boosh]

dog on private property. By all means come up my drive, knock on my door or put mail in the mailbox secured to the wall.

Try to prise open the silicon sealed letterbox (idiot window licking freeby paper delivery fool) or go through the gate at the side of my house, expect to be bitten.


Fair point but this was not the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1100716/Rottweilers-savage-postman-delivers-Christmas-cards.html

The second picture in my oppinion is totally inapropiate.

[gruntygiggles]

Fair point but this was not the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1100716/Rottweilers-savage-postman-delivers-Christmas-cards.html

The second picture in my oppinion is totally inapropiate.

Agreed...media hype at its finest eh! Rotties, like all other dogs can be lovely and most of the time are just that...lovely dogs. What people forget about Rottweilers is that they were bred to herd as well as guard so like collies, they can go for someone that they feel threatened by without any warning whatsoever. They are just much more powerful and can cause a lot more damage. A lady that runs a Rottie rehab centre near us has a big male that was incredibly aggressive to people and dogs 4 years ago. Now the dog is rehabilitated and plays happily with dogs and people, whether he knows them or not. Quite rightly though, she will never trust him, so takes measures to ensure he can't ever harm anyone.

[flymo]

Being a runner I come across angry dogs quite often. It really annoys me when these animals are not under control. Often the owners will just give you this daft look and say "he wont bite you dont worry", yeah right.

I dont see how insurance is going to help at all other than to fuel a claiming culture. It wont prevent dog attacks and it wont save kids being killed by the odd occasional dangerous dog going nuts.

[yorkie_chris]

so takes measures to ensure he can't ever harm anyone.

Good luck, big powerful dogs can hurt when they come and say hello :smt081

[ophic]

Often the owners will just give you this daft look and say "he wont bite you dont worry", yeah right.
Yeah I can say that. I tend to gloss over the part about knocking you flying, pinning you down, licking your face off and then humping you within an inch of your life. :D

[dizzyblonde]

Yeah I can say that. I tend to gloss over the part about knocking you flying, pinning you down, licking your face off and then humping you within an inch of your life. :D


You can, and hes not overly choosy who he tries humping either:p

Or indeed how many giant dogs do you see running in the opposite direction with his tail between his legs when someone even hints about saying...

boo:smt081

[gruntygiggles]

"he wont bite you dont worry"

I honestly believe that no owner can ever say that about any dog. You just don't know. 2 Jack Russells both over 10 years old and belonging to the same owner all that time had never shown any aggression or negative behaviour to anyone until one day, owner left her young grandchild in a cot in the living room to go make a cup of tea and the two jack russells attacked and killed the child.

Never say Never!

I don't blame you for being annoyed. One of our dogs was used as a pup as bait for fighting dogs in Knowle West in Bristol. She has understandable issues with other dogs, but through me working with her over the last three years, she's pretty much ok. What annoys me is, If I see other dogs, I get her and teh other three under my control....but other people just think, "my dog loves playing with other dogs, oooh look, there are four over there, great!" I'm left holding four dogs while some idiot allows theirs to run up, under zero control and they think I am the one with a problem when I look less than impressed that their precious "baby" just wanted to say hello.

It's so irresponsible, if for no other reason....why would anyone let their dog run up to another dog they don't know....it might not come back alive and it would be partly THEIR fault.

Some people are just idiots!

[ophic]

You can, and hes not overly choosy who he tries humping either:p

Or indeed how many giant dogs do you see running in the opposite direction with his tail between his legs when someone even hints about saying...

boo:smt081
I wouldn't call it running. More a kind of clumsy floppy bounding :-?

[dizzyblonde]

I wouldn't call it running. More a kind of clumsy floppy bounding :-?

Well neither would I. :p

Good job he don't have long ears, or he'd be in trouble!

[CheGuevara]

Being a runner I come across angry dogs quite often. It really annoys me when these animals are not under control. Often the owners will just give you this daft look and say "he wont bite you dont worry", yeah right.


This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Around here very few people use a lead when they're out with their dog, and it seems that a large percentage (majority?) of the dogs are of the bull terrier variety. I think it's irresponsible and inconsiderate and it really hacks me off that my wife can't feel safe walking down the sidewalks in our area when these people are around.

Don't get me started on all the dog cr*p on the sidewalks and green spaces (despite numerous dog-waste bins) - I've got to keep my eyes to the ground in front of me at all times when I go for a walk or run. You can spot the offenders as they walk ahead of their dogs (not on leads) and pretend not to notice what's going on behind them. Makes me want to carry a shovel so I can fling it at their heads!

Is there no legal requirement to keep your dog on a lead in public spaces?

[Milky Bar Kid]

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Around here very few people use a lead when they're out with their dog, and it seems that a large percentage (majority?) of the dogs are of the bull terrier variety. I think it's irresponsible and inconsiderate and it really hacks me off that my wife can't feel safe walking down the sidewalks in our area when these people are around.

Don't get me started on all the dog cr*p on the sidewalks and green spaces (despite numerous dog-waste bins) - I've got to keep my eyes to the ground in front of me at all times when I go for a walk or run. You can spot the offenders as they walk ahead of their dogs (not on leads) and pretend not to notice what's going on behind them. Makes me want to carry a shovel so I can fling it at their heads!

Is there no legal requirement to keep your dog on a lead in public spaces?


Unfortunately not no.

There is a law about allowing a dog to defecate though. Our wardens issues £40 fixed penalty tickets for it.

[CheGuevara]

Unfortunately not no.

There is a law about allowing a dog to defecate though. Our wardens issues £40 fixed penalty tickets for it.

Shame that. At home leads are required with the exception of designated off-lead areas (dog parks or sections of parks set aside for this), and it works quite well.

And seems there is a shortage of wardens in our area. Maybe upping the fine to £400 for failing to scoop-the-poop would persuade more owners to take responsibility.

[gruntygiggles]

No laws, but I thought you could get in trouble for not putting your dog on a lead if asked to do so by a figure of authority???

I'll hold my hands up, I never have my dogs on a lead when we are in the fields. They are 4 dogs that all need a lot of exercise. Stig has his muzzle on 90% of the time we are out. It only comes off when I am in certain fields that give me enough of a view to be able to take it off so that when I throw a stick....he can bring it back as it's not fair to throw it for the others when he can't pick it up...plus he's the one that comes and drops it on my feet. That said, He follows my every move as anyone that knows him will tell you. If I even turn around, he runs to me, so he always comes when I see a dog in another field and want to put his muzzle back on.

Round here...there is 1 dog poo bin. It is hardly ever used, it's crazy. At last years AR, there was so much old poo around when we arrived, I went around and picked it all up as, having four dogs, people automatically assume it's us that don't pick up, so I pick up after others just to avoid being tarred with that brush.

I made the exception of picking up after Kaiser though, firstly because it was always done immediately anyway and secondly because I would have needed an IKEA bag and four large hands....lol

[ophic]

I made the exception of picking up after Kaiser though, firstly because it was always done immediately anyway and secondly because I would have needed an IKEA bag and four large hands....lol
Let's face it, it's not as if we have to watch him... just wait for the pungent breeze and look for the area everyone else is moving away from :-?

[PoRk ChOp]

Don't get me started on all the dog cr*p on the sidewalks and green spaces (despite numerous dog-waste bins)

This drives me insane! I had a lady who consistantly let her dog crap right outside of my house, even after I confronted her about it and reported her to to the local dog wardens (who are useless) In the end I picked it up with a shovel and put it on her door step, her dog **** so she can have it.

Never happened again!

It's not hard to pick dog **** up, if you cant manage to do it then you shouldnt have a dog imo.

As for insurance, I'm currently paying about £35.00 a month for my 3 dogs (health and public liability) I know that its going to rocket WHEN this law comes in. Once again the wrong people are being targeted.

I may get flamed for the following but I truely believe you should have to have some sort of test to be able to own a dog, upon completion get issued with a dog license.

[yorkie_chris]

I may get flamed for the following but I truely believe you should have to have some sort of test to be able to own a dog, upon completion get issued with a dog license.

Not flamed at all, but this is exactly the same as the firearm laws or the 33bhp laws. All it would do is create vast inconvenience for the law abiding while the scumbags would just completely ignore it!

The government that governs best governs least.

[CheGuevara]

I may get flamed for the following but I truely believe you should have to have some sort of test to be able to own a dog, upon completion get issued with a dog license.

That makes sense to me, particularly if it could be administered by a dog owners association of some sort (ie made up of responsible dog owners) -self-governing is the way to go.

[PoRk ChOp]

All it would do is create vast inconvenience for the law abiding

Really??? If someone said to me that I needed to take some sort of test that lasted a few hours or even a day so I could walk my dogs in public I would do it.


while the scumbags would just completely ignore it!

Totally agree with that comment though.

[gruntygiggles]

This is all coming about due to dog attacks and the desire to cut them down drastically...not a bad thing at all. However.....instead of moaning at dog owners, increasing insurance costs for the responsible while remaining just as incapable of controlling the irresponsible, why not educate people on how NOT to get yourself bitten by a dog.

I made a comment about posties reporting properties where they felt they may get bitten and requiring an external post box....or even that mail for that property has to be collected.

As for children getting bitten by family pets....it's not the dogs fault as most people agree, but a lot could be done educate owners in how unpredicatable the lovable family pet can be.

For the other attacks, many are made up of children who are not under the control of their parents, running up to stroke the cute doggy and getting bitten because of it. That's not necessarily the dog owners fault as very often, you don't see or hear a child running up behind you in a field, so have no warning and a dog that has never bitten before can be startled by the child, feel under threat and bite as a result.

If you don't want to get bitten by a dog......avoid it or completely ignore it. Even looking and holding the gaze of some dogs is enough to cause a reaction....poking, startling, screaming at (like all kids do when excited) etc are all triggers. Parents need to take a little responsibility if they're not going to stop their children running up to strange dogs without the dog owners consent.

[ophic]

Not flamed at all, but this is exactly the same as the firearm laws or the 33bhp laws. All it would do is create vast inconvenience for the law abiding while the scumbags would just completely ignore it!

The government that governs best governs least.
Gotta agree here. If the govt actually bothered to enforce the laws properly, it wouldn't be such an issue, but they only seem to bother with the easy targets, which are most likely the people that weren't causing a problem in the first place.

[Bluewolf]

.

[yorkie_chris]

Really??? If someone said to me that I needed to take some sort of test that lasted a few hours or even a day so I could walk my dogs in public I would do it.

So you've got to go to a government approved training center which will be at least 50 miles away (look at the recent module 1 riding test debacle...) and pay an exorbitant sum of money... taking a full day off work, or pay extra to have the test on a weekend.

Meanwhile you still get bitten by some pikey mutt on the local council estate!

[the_lone_wolf]

I made a comment about posties reporting properties where they felt they may get bitten and requiring an external post box....or even that mail for that property has to be collected.

Or do what I did after warning the owners of one particular house many times that their dog was attacking me when I tried to deliver to them: Crack it over the nose mid jump with a rolled up magazine

Never came near me again after that...;)

[yorkie_chris]

Gotta agree here. If the govt actually bothered to enforce the laws properly, it wouldn't be such an issue, but they only seem to bother with the easy targets, which are most likely the people that weren't causing a problem in the first place.

Exactly. It's the same with every law these bloodsucking scumbags have passed.

Not that other governments have been entirely innocent of it, with the complete cluster-f***/knee jerk of the Firearms ammendment act 1988.

[gruntygiggles]

Bollox. There's always a warning, whether the human realises how the warning manifests itself is the problem.

Not bollox. Especially with breeds like collies. People get bitten and nipped by collies all the time, especially children and there is no warning. The dog is just doing its job and keeping the "flock" from running away, so when a kid runs, the collie nips the ankle.

Now....that is in respect to a nip...not an attack. One of our collies is fearful of strangers. If he's not happy, he doesn't growl, bark, become puffed up and confrontational, he just goes silent and still....that's when I know he's super peeved and about to bite. Hence, he always wears a muzzle and is never allowed to get away with that behaviour, but not everyone can tell that this silent, stiff exhibition is warning of a bite, so the belief is that there is no warning. I think I just didn't make that very clear, my bad.

Totally agree about humans not realising what the warnings are, hence my comment about educating people about how to prevent getting bitten by just understanding what the triggers can be and how to recognise that a dog is unhappy.

[missyburd]

Sorry if this has already mentioned, I may have missed it but this whole dog insurance malarky, would it not be an idea to have to only pay third party if your dog is in one of the top 20 dog breeds most likely to be/become aggressive? I know this is somewhat hard to judge with every dog having the potential to become aggravated and snap at someone, but breeds such as bull terriers, rottweilers, GSDs and so on (with somewhat of a reputation and more commonly used as guarding breeds) are possibly more a problem?

N.B. this is merely an idea, by no means am i suggesting everyone owning one of the breeds mentioned should have to pay third party ....


I'll hold my hands up, I never have my dogs on a lead when we are in the fields. It only comes off when I am in certain fields that give me enough of a view to be able to take it off

I was the same when I used to walk our Alsatian. Just because of his breed I wouldn't walk in public with him off the lead, people get funny about Alsatians, and with good reason the reputation they have! As long as I could see there was no livestock about or people approaching then he was allowed off, he was so obedient off the lead anyway but I was never willing to take the risks.

[ophic]

What is this insurance for though? Your already liable for any damage or injury your dog causes, even on your own land.

Our old GSD Byron grabbed a burglar climbing into our kitchen window, and pulled him down on to the worktop, and sat there growling at him until they were discovered in the morning. Outside the kitchen window there is at least 10 yards of our garden. The only bit of the window that opens is a fairly narrow pane at the top and its well above head height.

The judge ruled that because the guy wasn't more than 50% inside the house, he wasn't actually burgling, and that the dog pulled him inside. Miss Ophic had to pay damages to the guy, and Byron was taken away to be assessed. Fortunately, being the intelligent, well behaved creature he was, he came back shortly after.

Sometimes you wish he wasn't so well trained, and had ripped the intruder to shreds.

[dizzyblonde]

Sorry if this has already mentioned, I may have missed it but this whole dog insurance malarky, would it not be an idea to have to only pay third party if your dog is in one of the top 20 dog breeds most likely to be/become aggressive? I know this is somewhat hard to judge with every dog having the potential to become aggravated and snap at someone, but breeds such as bull terriers, rottweilers, GSDs and so on (with somewhat of a reputation and more commonly used as guarding breeds) are possibly more a problem?

.

I should imagine any pet insurance policy already has this in place. I think mine pays upto a million quid if one of my dogs was to person, property or other animal. (not sure of the correct rule but its somewhere near that).

You could bounce up and down all day to get Bob to snap, and being half breed of your top 20, he is supposed to be categorised with all the riff raff that do. However I reckon you've more of a chance with Honey showing her true colours and shes none of your list of top 20....

so how can someone anyone put any dog into a category? The law for this would be somewhat flawed, as you can't judge every dog on a preconception of a breed, or indeed heinz 57.

[the_lone_wolf]

Has anybody mentioned that your 3rd party liability risk is already covered by most home insurance providers, meaning it's double handed to insure yourself for the same risk again...

[simesb]

Has anybody mentioned that your 3rd party liability risk is already covered by most home insurance providers, meaning it's double handed to insure yourself for the same risk again...

Your home insurance usually has a get out about "if not covered by other insurance" otherwise cars/cycles/photographic gear/credit card purchases would all be double insured (depending on what insurances you have).

[the_lone_wolf]

Your home insurance usually has a get out about "if not covered by other insurance" otherwise cars/cycles/photographic gear/credit card purchases would all be double insured (depending on what insurances you have).
Err... So don't take out dog insurance and your TP liability cover is valid, making the supplementary dog insurance worthless:-?

I thought this was obvious?:smt017

[dizzyblonde]

The third party thing is just part of dog insurance in general, or house.
Your house insurance can't pay you for massive vet bills if poochy is knocked over, or has a cut paw....which costs one of your arms, legs or kidneys if you aren't insured.

Come on it costs less than 15 quid per month to insure each of my dogs. I've had to use it once when they had a big scrap(thankfully one has grown balls and the other has decided she can live with him without eating him ).
Sure the 50 quid excess stings a bit, but compared to thousands if you aren't covered if poor dog has broken leg and internal bleeding (and any other really nasty thing you can think of for illustration) on top of over night care, operation, drugs......

...I'd rather pay my premiums thanks, and my home insurance.

[fastdruid]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article7052392.ece

Druid

[maff]

Nobody is sure of exactly what this insurance will be yet. As these are just proposals but knowing the government they could end up being pretty ridiculous.

I havent read all of the replies to this and ive only jut got out of bed so most of this post could be drivel.

There was one report that mentioned that chipping all dogs could lead to them being tracked from above, so if an attack does occur then they can pinpoint where and when the attack happened. Wether thats true or not i dont know but even that is stupid idea in itself. My dog is already chipped and she isnt being chipped again.

I think somebody mentioned that you should prove you can control your dog to a certain extent before having a license for the animal, the kennel club already have something similar in place for the bronze award basic training, but i cant see chavs turning up to their local village hall on a friday evening for puppy training by a fat woman who has her dogs face on her jumper can you? I did and i loved it. A couple of weeks ago i saw some chave loitering outside the local spar, one of which had a staffy. They found it amusing to watch the dog eat chips that were thrown on the floor and pour beer onto its tounge, these people have no brains!

I still think dogs will only attack if provoked. You tease the dog and beat it when its a pup then it will be wary of people for life and it will go for you if you p*** it off. Even approaching it when it doesnt want you to, be it enetering their territory or outside a shop, whatever, to them its threatening. All the kids that have been mauled in the past by dogs have in some way P***** the dog off therefore provoking the animal, but you shouldnt leave kids with dogs anyway imo

My collie has nipped me quite a few times, for wht reason i can never figure out but its never an angry nip, its always through play. Shes even nipped my 4yr old nephew. Ive told him countless amount of times not to tease her so when she did he deserved it. If it went any further and attacked i would have no problem taking the dog out the back and drowning it in the pond but i know for a fact she wouldnt go any further, so if this insurance is a seperate one from a usual pet insurance then pffff... im not paying it.

Probably havent covered everything and like GG, ive lost track of what im saying now

[the_lone_wolf]

The third party thing is just part of dog insurance in general, or house.
Your house insurance can't pay you for massive vet bills if poochy is knocked over, or has a cut paw....which costs one of your arms, legs or kidneys if you aren't insured.

True but unrelated to the point I was making, the proposals put forth are for dog owners to be forced to take out 3rd party liability cover in case their dog bites someone, but this risk is already covered by most people's home insurance

As for vet's bills, we self insure...

[maff]

But does your house insurance cover you if your dog bites somebody half a mile away from your house if your out walking?

[ThEGr33k]

Money making exersice No 5,459,000 introduced in the last 15 years. Sigh.

Labours 3600 ways to make you a criminal.
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1052636/Labours-3-600-new-ways-making-criminal.html)

[the_lone_wolf]

But does your house insurance cover you if your dog bites somebody half a mile away from your house if your out walking?
It's cover for your third party liability as you go about your personal business, not restricted by your geographical location

[fastdruid]

We have laws against causing explosions in public places but that didn't stop them bringing in the new anti terror laws.

Ah yes and with all these new laws what did they charge the London bombers under? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't under any laws passed this Century. Or even last Century, they were charged under laws passed in the 1800's!

Druid

[dizzyblonde]

True but unrelated to the point I was making, the proposals put forth are for dog owners to be forced to take out 3rd party liability cover in case their dog bites someone, but this risk is already covered by most people's home insurance

As for vet's bills, we self insure...

Well there will be lots of people very angry if they are made to take out a second 3rd party liability insurance for their dogs.

The only way I think they could possibly find out if a dog is already covered is by its microchip. My twos microchips numbers are there somewhere on the insurance computer. So if the government was to bring this in I would expect them to go through the thousands of already chipped dogs to countercheck they also are insured..

Like I said, they are already covered for biting someone.

[ophic]

If my doggy insurance goes up any more I won't be able to afford to feed him.

Do you reckon I could hide him under the stairs?

[dizzyblonde]

Do you reckon I could hide him under the stairs?

http://mvamastiff.com/images/OLD_ENGLISH_MASTIFF_mvaa.jpg
Not sure...think you may need to find a big box;)

[yorkie_chris]

What is this insurance for though? Your already liable for any damage or injury your dog causes, even on your own land.

Our old GSD Byron grabbed a burglar climbing into our kitchen window, and pulled him down on to the worktop, and sat there growling at him until they were discovered in the morning. Outside the kitchen window there is at least 10 yards of our garden. The only bit of the window that opens is a fairly narrow pane at the top and its well above head height.

The judge ruled that because the guy wasn't more than 50% inside the house, he wasn't actually burgling, and that the dog pulled him inside. Miss Ophic had to pay damages to the guy, and Byron was taken away to be assessed. Fortunately, being the intelligent, well behaved creature he was, he came back shortly after.

Sometimes you wish he wasn't so well trained, and had ripped the intruder to shreds.

What a complete load of b*ll*cks!

Mate of mine had similar thing with finding a guy in his garage... he just called mates and they wrapped him in gaffer tape and left him in central reservation of M62 in the niff. He never heard owt more about it. :smt081

Not worth calling police if you find an intruder, just batter the crap out of them and dump somewhere. Find out where they live too in case they fancy any funny business later.

[Sosha]

& the effect of Pet insurance is ludicrously high vet bills.

The only people who are going to bother with 3rd party is the law abiding/ resposible people. One more for buerocrats, Mr Whiplash, and ambulance chasers.

Is third party insurance going to cut down on "Dog Attacks"?

Er no.

Educations always good but *hit does occasionally happen.
People will continue leaning off ladders, sticking forks in toasters and falling out of windowa.

And the presses "Ooh large dangerous dogs flee for your lives" sensasionalism doesn't help either.

That said most horse owners have third party. Presumably for when their nag jumps over someone's mondeo.

Yet more pointless legislation. They'll be how to change a lightbulb legislation next.

meh.

[Sosha]

The judge ruled that because the guy wasn't more than 50% inside the house, he wasn't actually burgling, and that the dog pulled him inside. Miss Ophic had to pay damages to the guy, and Byron was taken away to be assessed. Fortunately, being the intelligent, well behaved creature he was, he came back shortly after.

Sometimes you wish he wasn't so well trained, and had ripped the intruder to shreds.

That sucks.

How'd you prove he was only "halfway in the house" anyway?

[missyburd]

so how can someone anyone put any dog into a category? The law for this would be somewhat flawed, as you can't judge every dog on a preconception of a breed, or indeed heinz 57.
No, but I'm fairly sure most dog attacks that have been recorded will also have the breed recorded and therefore someone with a fair amount of time on their hands could run up a chart of top 20 breeds most commonly associated with attacks. Just a thought anyhow.

[ophic]

That sucks.

How'd you prove he was only "halfway in the house" anyway?
The scrote's own testimony, I think. There were no witnesses. Gullible judge or what.