View Full Version : Damaged helmets - and using them again
My head had a brief tarmac interface resulting in some minor damage.
Now I have bought a new helmet for the road however, would anyone still use the below helmet for track use only?
From the memory I have of the incident my head did not actually hit the ground with any significant impact nor from any height, it was mainly a momentary grazing once I was already sliding along the ground.
I am thinking the damage is purely surface damaged and that with the lack of impact there would be no real issue with using this as a track only lid?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/graemepaterson/DSCF1077.jpg?t=1268168286
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/graemepaterson/DSCF1081.jpg?t=1268168251
speedplay
09-03-10, 09:00 PM
No track will let you use that.
It's done it's job, just replace it and move on.
Take it to your nearest ambulance or fire station and ask if its any good to them for using in training.
Bluefish
09-03-10, 09:02 PM
i wouldn't but it's up too you, would you not be better buying a cheaper lid with the 5 star rating for use on track? at least then you know you're fully protected.
Nobbylad
09-03-10, 09:07 PM
Not sure there's much difference in a bike running over your head on a road or a track...better off chucking/donating/using it as a hanging basket I would have thought.
dizzyblonde
09-03-10, 09:11 PM
I could give you the garb one of my mates would tell you, she was the clothing and helmet seller in the bike business with her husband, but i can't remember it all properly, in fact it was Friday night we had a conversation about lids.
In a nutshell, its not the outer shell you need to worry about, its the inside materials that are damaged on impact.
Would you carry an egg in a damaged box? Its the same as putting your brains in a damaged lid, they run the risk of getting scrambled if theres an impact.
Sounds like flower pot it is then lol
dizzyblonde
09-03-10, 09:20 PM
That would be your best bet. At least it would have use.
Put it this way, when my lid had a head tarmac interface, there was a scuff the size of 50pence piece, the impact felt quite hard compared to how much damage there was. The paint was only slightly scuffed compared to your pics.
I've never worn it since.
fastdruid
09-03-10, 10:52 PM
That would be your best bet. At least it would have use.
Put it this way, when my lid had a head tarmac interface, there was a scuff the size of 50pence piece, the impact felt quite hard compared to how much damage there was. The paint was only slightly scuffed compared to your pics.
I've never worn it since.
You can barely see any damage from when my wife crashed her NC35 at cadwell (the first time) but still retired the helmet because she banged her head. Then she had the cheek to complain about having to borrow my lid[1] and it being non-too fresh and a bit worn.
Druid
[1] Same make, model, size (different paint) and bought at the same time just mine had done about 40k more than hers! ;)
Oh dear i wont tell you that im still using mine then after it scraped the road (visor and what looks like a stone chip on the chin gaurd)
dizzyblonde
09-03-10, 10:58 PM
[1] Same make, model, size (different paint) and bought at the same time just mine had done about 40k more than hers! ;)
You'd be surprised at how many helmets the same size are completely different. I've gone through a shop full before finding the right fit.
My new lid is the same make and model as the old one, but different design too, but for some reason I had to go away with a size smaller:smt017
IIRC all the outer shells are all the same in their particular size, its down to all the padding that make them all so varied.
Did some research into lids when getting back into biking and found out some useful stuff....
The outer lid is just for grazing or massively hard pointed impacts. Majority of head injurys result from the g force of your head inside the lid going from Xmph to stop. The inner padding is what lessens that impact - its got little to do with the outside shell, that just there to stop it all splitting like an egg.
So... if you drop your helmet with nothing inside it onto the floor, its only going to damage the outside shell as nothings hitting the inner shell so its prolly ok to wear again, regardless of scuffs and scrapes on the outside. However any bang with a weight inside the helmet, could be your head, could just be a pint of milk inside your lid, that will impact the inner lining and significantly reduce its ability to reduce gs next time. Think of the inner lining as a 1 off shock absorber basically, like styrofoam that is squeezed.
Judging by the state of that helmet, I wouldnt wear it and think it was safe, on track or road. Really hard to tell if the helmet did only graze the ground when you crashed or your head was cushioned from it by the inner lining but has now degraded that lining.
hth
fastdruid
09-03-10, 11:21 PM
You'd be surprised at how many helmets the same size are completely different. I've gone through a shop full before finding the right fit.
My new lid is the same make and model as the old one, but different design too, but for some reason I had to go away with a size smaller:smt017
IIRC all the outer shells are all the same in their particular size, its down to all the padding that make them all so varied.
The previous ones were AGV X-Vents as I'd previously had an X-Stream and the X-Vent was the model up, mine was this one
http://www.fastdruid.co.uk/albums/cadwell2006/thumbs/640x480cadwell2006_04-08-2006_465.jpg
Hers was this one
http://www.fastdruid.co.uk/albums/rockingham/thumbs/640x480Rockingham_07042007_019.jpg
Totally identical when bought we both tried both then agreed on the paint job we preferred. :)
When it came to a replacement tried *loads*, thought as I'd got on with AGV previously would try the (new) AGV but didn't like it. Ended up with a Ti-Tech instead.
Druid
yorkie_chris
09-03-10, 11:23 PM
mainly a momentary grazing once I was already sliding along the ground.
Probably fine then.
Question is your acceptable risk.
given your account of how the damage occurred, I'd probably use it.
yorkie_chris
09-03-10, 11:27 PM
In a nutshell, its not the outer shell you need to worry about, its the inside materials that are damaged on impact.
Basically the polystyrene foam inner lining acts like the crumple zone in a car. You need the lid to absorb the force of an impact.
If your head hits the deck hard enough for the foam to do owt, you know about it. My caberg hitting the deck sounded like a building collapsing from inside it.
Milky Bar Kid
10-03-10, 12:18 AM
Speedplays suggestion is a great idea, give to an ambulance or fire station. They can be invaluable for practice. Certainly when I did my training again the other week we did it at a fire station and didnt really have enough helmets for everyone to have a go. I was lucky enough to get a go.
BanannaMan
10-03-10, 05:12 AM
If the "crumple zone" effect of the helmet inner liner worked as intended it's quite likely you may not realize how hard your head hit the deck.
Whilst highsiding July 2008 my HJC was the first thing to hit the deck with the full weight of both bike and rider on top. However I felt absolutely no impact to my head at all. (I did hear it smack the tarmac)
On the outside there's only minimal scratches and there is no visable damage what so ever to the inside...but obviously there has to be.
Given you already have another.....Is it really worth the risk to wear this lid?
Also consider the likelyhood of landing on the same spot on the helmet in a future off. Is the shell going to survive that much abrasion in the same location.
It's done it job mate. Toss it in the bin.
(or donate it as others mentioned)
metalangel
10-03-10, 08:10 AM
Don't use it again... except to wear while playing racing games on the Xbox for added 'realism'. Indeed, buy a knackered old headset from Blockbuster and wire it up to the helmet so you can still call people fagorts whilst racing :p
The only way to be certain would be to get it inspected by the manufacturer - the Arai I was wearing that day had been previously adjusted, but I got it checked out and they gave it a clean bill of health.
If that isn't possible, then I'd go with the donation idea in case I needed the next one removed for me.
The only way to be certain would be to get it inspected by the manufacturer - the Arai I was wearing that day had been previously adjusted, but I got it checked out and they gave it a clean bill of health.
If that isn't possible, then I'd go with the donation idea in case I needed the next one removed for me.
I think, but i may be wrong, Arai are the only people to offer that service, but worth an ask, there is also no such thing as a X-ray machine according to the Arai rep i spoke too
there is also no such thing as a X-ray machine according to the Arai rep i spoke too
They'll be denying God exists next :D I wonder what hospitals use to take pretty pictures of one's insides if Arai are right?
I've carried on using a helmet that has made contact with the road but that only had a scuffing on it. Nothing to the extent in that picture. If it were mine, I wouldn't wear it again.
I've carried on using a helmet that has made contact with the road but that only had a scuffing on it. Nothing to the extent in that picture. If it were mine, I wouldn't wear it again.
To be fair I did have a sore neck for weeks, perhaps the helmet just absorbed a lot more of the impact than I am giving it credit for.
I'll probably give it a miss and look into passing it on for training somewhere.
yorkie_chris
10-03-10, 12:12 PM
That would probably be explained by the jarring effect of the road slowing the lid down. Do shoei offer testing of possibly damaged lids?
But anyway, surely you knew the answer you were going to get before you asked the question :-P
That would probably be explained by the jarring effect of the road slowing the lid down. Do shoei offer testing of possibly damaged lids?
But anyway, surely you knew the answer you were going to get before you asked the question :-P
To be fair I was seriously tempted to use it again. In hindsight thinking back to the contact probably a bad idea.
When I did marshalling, the sidecar passengers often fell off with similar damage to mine and the clerk of the course always allowed them to continue... and that just got me thinking, maybe I could use it track only as people fall off all the time on the track and surely dont go out buying a new one each time.
When I did marshalling, the sidecar passengers often fell off with similar damage to mine and the clerk of the course always allowed them to continue... and that just got me thinking, maybe I could use it track only as people fall off all the time on the track and surely dont go out buying a new one each time.
The dynamics of track crashes do tend to be different - sliding rather than colliding. Impact accidents do happen, just not as frequently; but would I take the chance - no!
yorkie_chris
10-03-10, 12:26 PM
I'd probably buy a cheaper lid for the track
Physicologically I'd never want to wear a helmet thats hit the deck again ....
Superstition more than science ...
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