Daytona 600

[demonicus]

ok i know its not an sv! there is such a wide knowledge base on here i thought i would give someone on here a try.
a mate has a 54 plate daytona 600. it has decided not to start 60% of the time all of the time. i have tried disconnecting the ecu and reconnecting it, i have made sure the battery is fully charged, checked all connections i can see. cleaned clutch switch, sidestand switch, nuetral light comes on. kill switch operates normally, fuel pump primes and relay gives a meaty click. when it starts it is absolutely sweet as a nut. revs up to redline on the road so not a fuelling issue methinks. oh and i have ripped out the datatool factory standarrd s3 alarm and binned it! blanking plug installed in its place.
i am talking to various chaps on triumphtorque, and i try everything they say.....its not even my bike and i am now pulling my hair out. the guy does not have much spare cash to take it to a dealer so as a few guys on here have trumpys i thought someone may shed light.
oh and i have also told him to sell it and buy a curvy.:D

[demonicus]

forgot to mention the bike turns over quite happily when not starting, voltage on battery is 13.5 at start,drops to 11.55 while cranking and goes back up to 12 ish when ign on and not cranked. when it does run battery shows 12.5 and a blip of throttle will see it climb into the high 13's so guessing reg/wreck not duff

[Sid Squid]

It sounds as like something as simple as a loose connection might be the trouble, as the problem is intermittent. However the other probable cause is a sensor/electronics problem.
There is no realistic way to tell what and where the fault might be without some sort of diagnostic tool, Tuneboy for instance.
However such things are expensive, the only sensible way to procede is to take the machine to a suitably equipped dealer, probably a Triumph dealer, even though everyone, without exception, that works in the motorcycle trade is a thief and worthy of being labelled a 'stealer'.

[ThEGr33k]

TBH that voltage with it running is a little low imo. Tickover on my bike is 14.2V and at 4000rpm 14.4V. The battery should be 12.8V when fully charged. You say that when the bike is off the battery is at 13.5V?

Does seem a slightly odd issue ill agree... Ill try and think about it.

[yorkie_chris]

I had similar problem with a GSXR. It would start fine from jump but not from battery even though battery was otherwise healthy... changed plugs and all was well.

even though everyone, without exception, that works in the motorcycle trade is a thief and worthy of being labelled a 'stealer'.

Ok so these honest businessmen will not be cheap :smt081

Do you need the expensive tuneboy keycode to do the diagnostic stuff?
See if you can find local boy who has tuneboy cable.

[demonicus]

to be fair i have managed to track down a trumpet owner with a tuneboy, unfortunately he lives in chesterfield and my mate is worried about making it. apologies for the stealer ref sid. but have you seen how much a triumph dealer charges just to answer the phone! that being said, did manage to get a blanking plug for the datatool for free even posted to us as my mates wife would not let him spend any more on his bike! could the plugs really be a prob chris? as i said it runs lovely when it starts, but it is as non comittal as a politician as to whether it will.

[AndyBrad]

I would have thourght its the plugs or more likely the coils. Does it have a problem after hes washes it? Mine just cranks over if i havnt put it in neutral stange thing that it is... Also it takes a while if i have given it a good soaking. So dont :)

[demonicus]

nope he never washes it. he was using it through winter, as i said when it starts, it gets nice and warm , then i have redlined it up the road through the gears and there is absolutely no hesitancy or indication that there is a fault of any description. just wont bleeding start. then you shout at it, and vroom it will fire up. do that a couple of times then back to original problem! do they have a throttle position sensor on them? and would that make a difference, if so where would it be. i only know a bit about carbed bikes not a jot about injection. as sid has said it is likely to be a connection somewhere, but you take the tank of a trumpy and its like spaghetti under there!

[Sid Squid]

Do you need the expensive tuneboy keycode to do the diagnostic stuff?
I can't remember what you can and what you can't do without the key. You may well be right.
to be fair i have managed to track down a trumpet owner with a tuneboy, unfortunately he lives in chesterfield and my mate is worried about making it.
As above, may be worth asking the Tuneboy owner what can and can't be done without the key, before embarking on a journey the bike may not complete.

I appreciate that professional services do not come cheap - at the moment however the bike is the best part of useless, thus it seems to me a false economy not to spend whatever's required to at least diagnose the trouble. A Daytona 600 is a lot of money to have as an ornament.

[AndyBrad]

Does it have an engine warning light?

[Stu]

worthy of being labelled a 'stealer'.
Considering we have dealers on this board willing to give their advice for free, it is a rather strange approach to take. :lol:
A bit like coming on and asking for some legal advice from all the piggy's* :roll:
*not that we have any of those.

[demonicus]

engine managment light cimes on with ignition but goes out when cranking, so does what its supposed to do. only time it stayed on was when i took the fuel pump relay out.( i put it back)

[demonicus]

i have already apologised for that reference, maybe should have said "main" and "triumph" in the reference, only cos they wanted 90 quid to put the datatool plug in and rip out alarm something that took about 22 minutes to do! i apologise once again! tempers are a bit frayed with this flipping bike!

[demonicus]

if we dont get it fixed his wife has said he has to sell it and buy a fiesta for running the kids to school. and we dont argue with her!

[AndyBrad]

Oh ****!

Urm not sure what to sugest appart from take a look at all the plugs.

[demonicus]

will have to go at this slow and methodical. am i right in assuming that if it runs and runs well that it is def not an ecu problem or can they have intermittant faults? in which case he is getting a fiesta!(and it will be an old one....diesel)

[yorkie_chris]

That's a reasonable assumption.

If it's cranking it's probably not any of the cutout switches.

I'd try put a boost pack on it and see if it starts reliably then. It's possible that the juice needed by cranking and all the EFI gubbins is dropping the voltage below what the plugs will fire at.

[demonicus]

well i know its not advisable but started it off my car the other day, engine off lights on and it fired up straight away! is it possible that a relay jamming would bleed off power, and the likelyhood that it would do so intermittantly. sorry to ask seemingly dumb questions but it is the simple things that get overlooked. read somewhere that ecu will not action if the voltage drops below a certain point

[demonicus]

it is a new battery on the bike, bosch 12v 8ah. i have a suspicion this may be a bit weedy, but it was what halfords sold him and what had been on the bike previously...... would a 12 or 14ah battery make that much diff?

[demonicus]

also thinking about pulling the fuses for the lights as they come on as soon as ign is turned on, or is that inadvisable?

[yorkie_chris]

well i know its not advisable but started it off my car the other day, engine off lights on and it fired up straight away! is it possible that a relay jamming would bleed off power, and the likelyhood that it would do so intermittantly. sorry to ask seemingly dumb questions but it is the simple things that get overlooked. read somewhere that ecu will not action if the voltage drops below a certain point

Jumping it off the car is fine just don't do it with the car engine running.

Yeah it's possible something is doing that. you need a wiring diagram.

It's fine to pull the fuses.

[demonicus]

cheers chris! knew about not running the engine, although i would have tried it if it hadnt fired up thats how p£$%sed off we are! anyway just got hold of a local garage told them about the potential fiesta looming and they have said they will bang it ona tuneboy they have borrowed off someone, and not to worry about cash just yet! fingers crossed. mate is expecting to be dumped in 'stan where the sun is hot and the rockets are hotter sometime soon....again. so just want him to have one less worry and a bit of enjoyment

[demonicus]

bike only had 4000 miles on it in 6 years..... now i know why!

[AndyBrad]

get yourself over to www.daytona600.org (http://www.daytona600.org) somone there may be able to help

[demonicus]

oh excellent i didnt know there was even an org for them.cheers andy

[demonicus]

:Da lot of useful info over there, but nothing i havent had off you guys. just a bit more bike specific! will post if i finally fix it! or come back and pick some brains again:thumbsup:

[speedplay]

get yourself over to www.daytona600.org (http://www.daytona600.org) somone there may be able to help


Lol Doubtful.

There are some pretty knowledgable guys on there, but if a newbie on the site asks a question they tend to flame them.

Bit Clique' for my liking.

[cuffy]

If you need a wiring diagram i've got the manual on cd somewhere.
I don't need it any longer so drop me your address via PM and i'll send you the disc.
Cuffy

[demonicus]

If you need a wiring diagram i've got the manual on cd somewhere.
I don't need it any longer so drop me your address via PM and i'll send you the disc.
Cuffy
that is absolutely brilliant, thankyou pm sent

[lukemillar]

Do you need the expensive tuneboy keycode to do the diagnostic stuff?
See if you can find local boy who has tuneboy cable.

Nope, diagnostic stuff doesn't require a key (at least on the 675 it doesn't) you only need the key for TuneEdit - for downloading new fuel maps.

[demonicus]

managed to get someone with a tuneboy just hoping it nothing bad! thanks for everyones input. just waiting to get it on the checked out and see what happens!

[demonicus]

ok, took it to the garage, the guys laptop was prehistoric, and the tuneboy would not read the bike , off or running.
as i was riding it to the garage the throttle jammed on to about 3k revs and would not settle back down, riding was fine but kept returning to 3k at throttle closed. almost like it had the choke on( its fuel injected though)
could this be the tps causing the fault? or is there a possibility of some dodgy cold start sensor?

[Sid Squid]

If it likes being at a high idle, then it's possible that the cold running settings are being used, this could be a temperature sensor/connection/cabling failure, in the typical items OAT/airbox/coolant sensor/s. Have you checked the coolant level? Dependant on the sensor's position on the machine, if the coolant level is low the sensor may not be in the fluid to read it's temperature.
You say the computer is old - which OBD connector cable do you have? In my experience the serial one only likes older computers that have a suitable port, emulators or converters will result in a 'computer says no' experience.

[yorkie_chris]

Don't them trumps have a bypass valve for idle rather than throttle stop? If this was dicky it may not work to give the fast idle and now it's stuck open?

[demonicus]

will look into that sid, i know coolant level is ok, will have a nosey at the airbox and see what i can find, i think there is a sensor on the side of that. as to the computer i am a dunce at computing i am afraid. but i think it is a newish cable and a slab of a laptop. so maybe i can get the prog copied onto a newer lappy and try again?
chris if it was stuck open that could also flood the engine/swamp the plugs whilst turning over thus causing a starting problem!am i correct in this assumption?

[yorkie_chris]

No it's an air valve not fuel, if it was sticky and was stuck closed before then the engine might not have enough air to fire... or might be overfuelling expecting more air.

IAC valve or something like that, read about them c**king up on t595.net occasionally

[Sid Squid]

Don't them trumps have a bypass valve for idle rather than throttle stop? If this was dicky it may not work to give the fast idle and now it's stuck open?
The earlier ones with the software driven Sagem system did, yes. The Daytona has a non programmable Mikuni* system, that's more conventional - there's no IACV.

* As I remember, could be Keihin, in any case it's very different to the earlier TTs and the triples with the Sagem system.

OP: Clearly it's worth making sure everything electrical is correctly and securely connected, but, because of the nature of the system, unless there's something obviously disconnected or broken you're going to need diags of some kind - the Triumph dealer beckons.

[demonicus]

have persuaded mate that he is going to have to bite the bullet at least for a diagnosis. gives us a fighting chance. am ok on basic stuff,but not fuel injection......
cheers guys once again.
when i find the prob and fix the damned thing i will persuade him to buy a less complicated bike. like the cb500 he traded in!

[demonicus]

managed to find a triumph dealer in stoke that has said they will do a diagnostic on his bike for a tenner! that includes if they need to piddle about a bit to get it to read right, if it is just a reset(tps) they will do it free. obviously if something is needed to be repaired then thats when it will cost.....roll on friday!

[speedplay]

If he sorts out the problem, he won't want to look at a cb500 ;)

[demonicus]

yup until the next fault.... lol. to be fair it is a cracking bike when it runs, lovely to ride.but i think his wife is reluctant to part with money to do ANY work on his bike ever, so i think something as sensitive as the daytona is a bit beyond our capabilities for shed mechanics!

[speedplay]

So when he decides to sell it...

Let me know, I want a 2nd one.

[demonicus]

know its got next to no miles on it, and it would be immaculate if he ever cleaned it!

[speedplay]

Bit like mine then ;)

[demonicus]

well if he does give up on it i will let you know, although i think he will be so chuffed at it working he may forget for a bit what a pain in the butt it has been! lol

[yorkie_chris]

but i think his wife is reluctant to part with money to do ANY work on his bike ever

What nutter would let their missus tell them how to spend money on vehicles?

[demonicus]

lol chris, you aint met helen, she a northern lass and rules the family with an iron thumb!

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah, but... female? You'd end up driving around in a purple ford Ka 700cc with brakes that don't work because she liked the colour?

[demonicus]

my missus chose my bike cos she liked the colour.....it was either that or another year in the megane! you are obviously a lucky man. that being said i love my bike.

[speedplay]

my missus chose my bike cos she liked the colour.....it was either that or another year in the megane! you are obviously a lucky man. that being said i love my bike.


Good job she doesn't like yellow then.

I mean, who would ride a yellow curvy?!