More HP?

[SuperLC]

Hey everyone, Im new here so bare with me.

I would like to know if anyone has any ideas on how to improve the performance of my SV650s (1999) version. Im looking for slightly more acceleration & a little more top speed (only had it at 136 mph flat out, I was doing that speed for quite some time thinking it would maybe ease up to 140-142 mph'ish but no luck) I already have a touch of Nitrous Octane in the petrol, a scorpion exhaust fitted (which is slightly lighter than the old one) & a hps performance air filter and it doesn't really seem to have gave it a major boost of what I was expecting =S and no I haven't got any heavier, my weight has remained pretty much the same (about 82KG, 180 lbs) So if anyone has any tips (without having to spend over £100) then I would appreciate the feedback

~Thanks

[Spoon]

A few easy things for various amounts of gain:

Full exhaust system
Better flowing air filter (BMC)
Rejet to suit
Cam swap

In total the above cost me <£200 and a bit of time

Then there are many many other options such as busa pistons, rebore e.t.c. depending on how far you want to take things/how much you are willing to spend

[fastdruid]

Lol, nothing for ~£100 is going to give you a lot.

You could get some pointy cams which would give you a few more hp but not going to blow your socks off.

Really unless you want to spend a lot you're better off selling it and buying a 600/4, you can get a CBR6 for peanuts these days and they're much faster.

Druid

[yorkie_chris]

What the f*ck is nitrous octane?

[ophic]

I thought this was a thread about sauce :mad:

[Stu]

What the f*ck is nitrous octane?
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

[TazDaz]

What the f*ck is nitrous octane?

haha

Well I did see these fuel additives and the brand was called Nitrous and definitely had word octane on the bottle and claimed* to increase the RON value of fuels....but I think OP meant oxide! :smt028

Big emphasis on 'claimed'!

[yorkie_chris]

So on googling "nitrous octane" second site that came up is "essex racing".
Seems like it will be good match for burberry cap and blue LEDs in windscreen washers.


for a start have a read on here, it's been asked loads of times. But let's be brutally honest for £100 you ain't getting sh*t! You can start saving for some proper tuning by not buying chav crap octane boosters.

You want easy higher top speed fold mirrors in :)


P.S for purposes of bike top speeds, weight doesn't matter.

[yorkie_chris]

...but I think OP meant oxide! :smt028


I don't!

You don't put N2O in the fuel, it has its own injection system and comes as a liquified gas in a pressurised bottle

[SuperLC]

I don't see it as 'chav crap' I see it as something to add a bit more power to my bike. Well Im on a budget now and I told you how much I can only spend right now so why bash that?

[TazDaz]

I don't!

You don't put N2O in the fuel, it has its own injection system and comes as a liquified gas in a pressurised bottle

Argh...didn't read he put it in the fuel! Yeah...I know the cycliders.


Spend the £100 on gym equipment and become a waif, if you're not already.

[yorkie_chris]

Why would it add power?

You literally CANNOT increase an engines power by pouring different stuff in there out of a tin. Especially not chav crap. Double especially not chav crap with NOS written on bottle, I don't even like their nitrous oxide kits and they do add power.

Right your chav crap in bottle there does not add power. That is not bashing. It purports to be an octane booster.
Why would you want to boost octane. A stock SV650 runs fine on bog standard pump fuel.

[sinbad]

Teehee, you're always going to get a bit of a playful response to this kind of thread :)

I think you should pay me £100 to modify your speedo to over-read even more :)

[BBadger]

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

Read page 2 of that linky....i spat my drink out!

[yorkie_chris]

Playful when people get offended when you tell them truth lol



Point number 2, that air filter did nothing either unless you rejetted it. BMC race RS filter which is one of best ones for SV needs main jets like 8-10 sizes bigger otherwise the bike is completely unrideable and will probably melt pistons.
If your bike is still rideable with air filter and stock jetting then it does not flow any better than stock and thus did not give you any power.

[davepreston]

ok this is not a bash just the answer to your question (abite a little bit more diplotaticly than yc)
simply you own a sv, it is a budget bike and therfore not a highly tuned race rocket. to add noticeable bhp it costs silly money and time, cheap claimed bhp adders are all in genral just a waste of cash, if 120 odd mph isnt fast enough for you (remember 136 was your indicated speed not actual, big differance) you would be far better as previously stated buying a new more speed focused bike,
hth
dave

[Sid Squid]

More HP?
In a word; no.

Not without spending far more than you would buying a more powerful bike which will also be more reliable. Also, depending on the exact details, a modifiied bike can become a problem to insure too.

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.permatex.com/documents/msds/01_USA-English/12103.pdf

Sure pouring diesel into tank will add power

[SuperLC]

Playful when people get offended when you tell them truth lol



Point number 2, that air filter did nothing either unless you rejetted it. BMC race RS filter which is one of best ones for SV needs main jets like 8-10 sizes bigger otherwise the bike is completely unrideable and will probably melt pistons.
If your bike is still rideable with air filter and stock jetting then it does not flow any better than stock and thus did not give you any power.

I wasn't offended, you may be respected on these forums but you seem like a smart ass to me so keep your ideas/comments to yourself if it's nothing useful. Thanks to the other people that actually answered my question with respect!

*yeah and regards to your claim that the Octane Booster doesn't add any power at all, I only put the recommended amount into my petrol (full tank) which was only like 110ml give or take, however one of my mates poured out nearly a full bottle into the petrol and he had a significant power increase which can ruin the engine, but I ain't doing that. The octane burns the fuel quicker.*

[yorkie_chris]

I'm sincerely sorry if my forthrightness comes across as rude to those too dense to do research before spending money.
If you don't like it there is an "add to ignore list" button within easy reach.


What was not useful anyway?

I am serious about filter, if you fitted better filter and did not rejet then it could do damage.

[ophic]

*yeah and regards to your claim that the Octane Booster doesn't add any power at all, I only put the recommended amount into my petrol (full tank) which was only like 110ml give or take, however one of my mates poured out nearly a full bottle into the petrol and he had a significant power increase which can ruin the engine, but I ain't doing that. The octane burns the fuel quicker.*
Please stop proving your ignorance. :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

*yeah and regards to your claim that the Octane Booster doesn't add any power at all, I only put the recommended amount into my petrol (full tank) which was only like 110ml give or take, however one of my mates poured out nearly a full bottle into the petrol and he had a significant power increase which can ruin the engine, but I ain't doing that. The octane burns the fuel quicker.*

Sorry, but I don't believe you.

And you've got a serious hole in your knowledge, or perhaps more hole than knowledge about what octane is.

All an octane rating is, is the ability of a fuel to resist detonation.

[yorkie_chris]

Ok read here
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.howstuffworks.com%2Fengine.ht m&ei=ix6YS6D6K42OjAfj04n4Dw&usg=AFQjCNH1_szFND1fS8aEoH_XxlpiEw9d1w

Then read EVERYTHING on this site
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/

This guy is a genius, I had one of his cylinder heads on a car and the thing went like stink. Until you've understood how an engine works stop buying chav crap from essex!

[SuperLC]

Sorry, but I don't believe you.

And you've got a serious hole in your knowledge, or perhaps more hole than knowledge about what octane is.

All an octane rating is, is the ability of a fuel to resist detonation.


So everything I have been told and looked at about Nitrous Octane Booster is all False according to you?

*And your also quite patronising, which just isn't a good thing*

[fizzwheel]

IMHO £100 isnt going to get you anything, you'd be better off keeping the £100 in your pocket or going on a trackday and learning ( unless you can already ) to wring the SV's neck and get the most out of it.

Unless you are track riding why chase top speed that you cant use without getting yourself into trouble license wise. Gear the bike down and it'll accelerate harder and give you more of a rush that way. I would imagine you'd be able to get a sprocket kit cheaply enough.

As said above, if you really want to go faster, buy a bigger bike.

[sinbad]

So everything I have been told and looked at about Nitrous Octane Booster is all False according to you?

It would appear that everything apart from that it increases the Octane rating of the fuel you add it to, is, if not complete fiction, not applicable. If you require an octane boost, it certainly wouldn't be because you wanted the fuel to burn faster :)

Here's a simple article: http://www.fueltechexperts.com/2008/07/18/do-you-really-need-an-octane-booster/

[yorkie_chris]

So everything I have been told and looked at about Nitrous Octane Booster is all False according to you?

Yes.
Link I posted, it is right there in front of you on MSDS sheet. Stuff is 95% paraffin.
It would not surprise me if this stuff has lower octane rating than pump fuel.


I'll take some into the lab and see about getting it squirted into the rapid compression test machine if you paying.
Mate of mine is currently doing masters project funded by shell on this machine, I'm sure they know nothing about fuels.


If you want to be taken seriously, put bike on a dyno with this stuff in, then flush tank out and do another run on pump fuel.

[SuperLC]

Yes.
Link I posted, it is right there in front of you on MSDS sheet. Stuff is 95% paraffin.
It would not surprise me if this stuff has lower octane rating than pump fuel.


I'll take some into the lab and see about getting it squirted into the rapid compression test machine if you paying.
Mate of mine is currently doing masters project funded by shell on this machine, I'm sure they know nothing about fuels.


If you want to be taken seriously, put bike on a dyno with this stuff in, then flush tank out and do another run on pump fuel.

Fine then, do what you must, test it and get back to me about it ?

[CheGuevara]

So everything I have been told and looked at about Nitrous Octane Booster is all False according to you?

*And your also quite patronising, which just isn't a good thing*

It might be possible that if it were cleaning some gunk out of the carbs it could restore some power that had been gradually lost over time, but otherwise yeah, it would seem people have been filling your mind with bad info.

Take a bit of time to maybe read some of the links posted and gain a better understanding of the subject. Doesn't mean you need to become an expert, but might help you filter out fact from fiction.

[yorkie_chris]

Not on my money. I'll send an email to guy and see how much it is for couple of test shots.

[SuperLC]

Not on my money. I'll send an email to guy and see how much it is for couple of test shots.

Anyways I will see if I can find a dyno somewhere and get it tested on that with & without. So what does this machine actually do?

[Tim in Belgium]

At least the higher octane should help with the knock sensor on the SV engine.

[yorkie_chris]

Do you understand what octane rating means yet as this won't make much sense otherwise.

The chamber gets preheated and a charge of fuel and air is "loaded", then on pushing the little red button the piston gets whacked up into the chamber rapidly compressing the fuel. A pressure transducer measures the pressure spike in relation to chamber pressure, piston position and temperature.
I think this one can run as spark ignition and compression ignition.

From that you can get a pretty good indication of octane rating, I know he has tested winter blend of V-power, couple of alcohols, and octane and heptane baseline fuels.

You also get some pretty pictures of the burn in progress.

[SuperLC]

Do you understand what octane rating means yet as this won't make much sense otherwise.

The chamber gets preheated and a charge of fuel and air is "loaded", then on pushing the little red button the piston gets whacked up into the chamber rapidly compressing the fuel. A pressure transducer measures the pressure spike in relation to chamber pressure, piston position and temperature.
I think this one can run as spark ignition and compression ignition.

From that you can get a pretty good indication of octane rating, I know he has tested winter blend of V-power, couple of alcohols, and octane and heptane baseline fuels.

You also get some pretty pictures of the burn in progress.

After testing all those other fuels, how do they differ from each other? as in like from start (burning) to finish, performance or whatever terms you use with this machine ?

[yorkie_chris]

But actually thinking about it, this is pointless for this discussion. The standard SV doesn't NEED a higher octane rating. In fact you can advance the ignition further still without running into detonation issues.

Proof in pudding is your dyno test.


Ok some alcohol like methanol has a very high octane rating, meaning you run about 15:1 compression ratio. Octane is 100RON, Heptane is 0, methanol above 100.
But unless you are going to increase your compression ratio to actually need higher octane there cannot be a power gain.


You design an engine to work with a fuel, it works best on this fuel. Stock SV engine is designed for 95RON.

[SuperLC]

But actually thinking about it, this is pointless for this discussion. The standard SV doesn't NEED a higher octane rating. In fact you can advance the ignition further still without running into detonation issues.

Proof in pudding is your dyno test.

So.. Without buying a more powerful bike, seriously what 3 main things would you do to increase the power output of the SV650? if you would be kind to just give an answer.

[Tim in Belgium]

Skim the head then for a higher compression ratio, more power, and fine if there's no knock issues as standard. Then the supposed octane booster may help when mapping the ignition (no idea how this is changed on the SV though).

[Tim in Belgium]

I'd spend the money on better front springs and fork oil, a much better way of making the SV a faster machine.

[Tim in Belgium]

Have a fun discussion, I'm off to bed, got to get up early for a stag do in Bulgaria.

[yorkie_chris]

So.. Without buying a more powerful bike, seriously what 3 main things would you do to increase the power output of the SV650? if you would be kind to just give an answer.

Full exhaust system £200
flatslide carbs £7-800
cam swap £100

Plus dyno time. This could get you a strong 85-90bhp depending on the optimism of the dyno.

Now you see why people are laughing when you want to add power for £100? There really isn't anything you can do for that price to gain any significant power.

[SuperLC]

Full exhaust system £200
flatslide carbs £7-800
cam swap £100

Plus dyno time. This could get you a strong 85-90bhp depending on the optimism of the dyno.

Now you see why people are laughing when you want to add power for £100? There really isn't anything you can do for that price to gain any significant power.

right okay..

Well it was just a question of if it were possible to gain significant power for that amount of cash. But it looks like I clearly can't, so it will need to do for now, ah well.

[yorkie_chris]

If you want to add top speed, fold your mirrors in. That'll probably add more mph than a few hundred quids worth of tuning.


Seriously you've got the wrong bike for top end speed. Any fool can wally the throttle in a straight line.

[SuperLC]

If you want to add top speed, fold your mirrors in. That'll probably add more mph than a few hundred quids worth of tuning.


Seriously you've got the wrong bike for top end speed. Any fool can wally the throttle in a straight line.

Yeah, good for straight lines against certain 'boy racer' cars. But when it comes to some corners, they try acting smart and obviously want to win you over it so they can just easily swerve a little making you slow down if the bike is close to them. Usually have a blonde haired girl in the passenger seat, that's when they become dangerous!

[yorkie_chris]

Why are they anywhere near you in corners?

OTFP (http://forums.sv650.org/album.php?albumid=563&pictureid=4041)

[SuperLC]

Usually round about's... if they see me, lets say doing maybe 10mph quicker than you would normally do on a round about on average depending on the ground & weather conditions. The have an 'urge' to pass me going off the same exit & cut infront of me =S

[yorkie_chris]

How long you been riding?

[SuperLC]

well... done off-road since i was around 11-12. Then on-road started on a 125cc about 3 and a bit years ago then around 2 years ago got the SV650s

[stratman_001]

I dunno what boy racer cars your on about but iv never had any boy racer with a dustbin for an exhaust and bumpers rubbing on the floor ever come close to me around a round about.... all you want is a better shock and some progresive fork springs dude :-D

[yorkie_chris]

Maybe some better tyres would help if you have crap ones fitted now, other than that spend money on handling and otfp.

[SuperLC]

Maybe some better tyres would help if you have crap ones fitted now, other than that spend money on handling and otfp.


I have pretty good tyres on it just now, only done around 1000 miles on them. And im fine with the handling considering I can see by the tyres how far I have been leaning on them and it's right at the ridges.

@ stratman_001 (http://forums.sv650.org/member.php?u=12724):

sometimes they are ****ty things, other times I have a Evo 8 up my ass.

[Mej]

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

thats is quite possibly the stupidiest thing i have ever heard of!!! :smt081

[yorkie_chris]

I have pretty good tyres on it just now, only done around 1000 miles on them. And im fine with the handling considering I can see by the tyres how far I have been leaning on them and it's right at the ridges.

@ stratman_001 (http://forums.sv650.org/member.php?u=12724):

sometimes they are ****ty things, other times I have a Evo 8 up my ass.

There's more to it than just getting to the edge, it's putting the power onto them and braking.

Fast 4 wheel drive car like that will be a challenge if driver knows what he's about. If he is up your ass point is proven, let him by!

thats is quite possibly the stupidiest thing i have ever heard of!!! :smt081
Funniest!

Not quite as funny as the ECU driller killer though.

[Mej]

you have to be pretty special to mistake a drink for NOS, and then put both bottles in. lmao.

ECU Driller Killer????

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-6r-forum/14462-fi-light-need-help.html

[SuperLC]

I would say im fine with the breaking and accelerating out of corners and such, obviously not perfect but not sh*t! and yeah SV's will struggle with car's like that. Me and my mate had a race in a straight line when it was quiet and no one was about. He has a Subaru Impreza STI 310bhp 04 plate. He couldn't keep up with me from around 0-90 mph, after 100 mph he was right up my rear. And could have easily passed

[ophic]

let him by!
First piece of really good advice in this thread.

Grow up. Trying to be the fastest is a sure way to end up in an early grave, especially on 2 wheels.

[Mej]

pmsl, people never cease to amaze me!!!!!

[Mej]

other times I have a Evo 8 up my ass.

you are gonna need something a sh*tload faster to stand anychance of getting away from an Evo 8. God i loves those cars!!

I would imagine the sv wont really get away from one of them in the straight line or corners.

[SuperLC]

you are gonna need something a sh*tload faster to stand anychance of getting away from an Evo 8. God i loves those cars!!

I would imagine the sv wont really get away from one of them in the straight line or corners.

Sometimes im infront for a short period of time, it's kind of like this 20-70 mph im infront by 3 or 4 car lenghths, 70-100 mph pretty equal and anything after that (same with the impreza) I back of because I only see the back end of it =/

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ysn15dm0Q

Or a CD100 or something at rush hour LOL

[SuperLC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Ysn15dm0Q

Or a CD100 or something at rush hour LOL

Have you seen that one with I think it's the twin turbo mustang thrashing a GSXR-750? I kept thinking no way.

[jamesterror]

YC has spent time on your ignorance which I don't understand, but his point is more than proven.

If you want more top end speed more powerful bike, if you want to live longer don't race in the environment which I assume you are doing so.

[Mej]

lol, i do love that vid YC.

if you watch those stupid riding vids he is racing with an evo in that and it keeps up most of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv75bCm7lZs&feature=PlayList&p=06E355253DD118EC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

same old argument car vs bikes.

but imo you need a quicker bike if you are looking to win against cars like that, 1000s will beat most on the road especially in a straight line.

[stratman_001]

If all else fails (and it obviously has) you'll just have to go and get yourself some boy racer go faster stripes :D it obviosuly works for the cars why wont it work for you??

[Drew Carey]

SuperLC, if you want more power to beat chavy cars from the line etc, then IMHO you are not starting correctly. Even with a bog standard SV, there are "some" cars on the road that can beat you in a 0-60 drag. However, from my expereince, there aren't many drivers who can do so.....especially kids in their newly financed scooby!!!!

I have had many scoobies / evos etc try and beat me off the line. I know that driven correctly, it can beat me......but I've yet to have someone beat me as they are never driven correctly, usually short shifting and not using the gears correctly.

If however, you want a faster bike buy a different one, but there are many many experienced riders on here (not me) who can ride an SV quicker than a lot of guys on R1's etc.

[Sid Squid]

First piece of really good advice in this thread.
Now I'm offended :(. I put an irritatingly sensible post in earlier and you just ignore me.

You are sooo off my christmas card list :p.

[SUPERSTARDJ01]

Power commander, full Akrapovic system or even better, sell it and get a ZX6, GSXR or R6 no need to upgrade any of them.

[yorkie_chris]

The akra's about the worst of the SV performance systems...

[fastdruid]

The akra's about the worst of the SV performance systems...

<fingers in ears> LA LA LA I'm not listening</fie>
(I only paid £36 for it so I'm not really that bothered).

Druid

[yorkie_chris]

+1 micron was only just better, TWF did bunch of dyno tests, but I got my micron set for £50 and sold them for £80 15,000 mile later. Bargain.
(M4 was not so cheap though lol)

[demonicus]

clearly the best thing to do is paint it red. easily the best way of gaining hp.

[fastdruid]

Yeah, would still like the M4 but kind of hard to justify as even s/h not seen many go cheap. TBH I think I only gone mine that cheap as it was missing the silencer, sold as an unknown make exhaust and had a dent in the front downpipe. I worked out later it was Akrapovic.

Druid

[yorkie_chris]

Paint it black. A million black sabbath and stones fans can't all be sober.

[demonicus]

spose you are going to tell me now that v-power doesnt add another 10hp too! and yes black is a better colour but only cos radar guns cant see it lol

[fastdruid]

V-power adds a 100 million hp, Shell say it so it must be true.

Druid

[demonicus]

i heard if you go for a dump and eat special k then that gets you another 2 miles an hour

[Sid Squid]

Swap the plug leads over - this changes the firing order and makes it into a big-bang engine. Completely and utterly guaranteed true that is*.

































*For certain values of 'true'.

[demonicus]

wow. what kind of noise would that make with a scorpion exhaust! lol

[yorkie_chris]

Kinda like an SV cranking over with the odd pop, then a lot of clicking... then silence.

[Sid Squid]

wow. what kind of noise would that make with a scorpion exhaust! lol
It would sound fantastic!

As in - it running would be a fantasy.

[demonicus]

and there was me thinking it would make the engine run backwards.

[Sid Squid]

and there was me thinking it would make the engine run backwards.
Rear wheel steering? Cool, you'd be backing it in everywhere!

[demonicus]

fnar fnar

[ophic]

Now I'm offended :(. I put an irritatingly sensible post in earlier and you just ignore me.

You are sooo off my christmas card list :p.
That was good advice. Just not really good advice. Now send me a card at xmas or else :twisted: