100bhp Power Limit!

[-Ralph-]

ABS is a pre-requisite for my next bike, not because I'm in the habit of grab and lock, but because when I have had to emergency stop, I'm probably not applying as much pressure as I could do. I have either already lifted the the rear end and inch or two, or if the surface is wet or a bit gravelly, I've squeezed as hard as I dare and I don't know how much grip I have left before I end up loosing the front. I feel sometimes its a bit of a lottery between either hitting the car that's pulled out on you, or hitting the deck. It's lack of confidence with the brakes.

Real emergency braking is something you probably only do once or twice a year, and unless you find an empty car park and take the time to do so, not something that you can get practice with. Even if you do practice in a car park, as soon as you move onto a wet, gravelly or just worn smooth road surface, your back to not knowing how hard you can squeeze. All practising in a car park really does for you is trains how to brake properly, and gives you some idea of how quickly your bike can stop, but it doesn't teach you how hard you can squeeze on a cold wet road.

Racers know how hard they can brake, because they brake at full potential every lap of the circuit and they do it in wet, dry, hot and cold, on a fairly good constant surface it's their job, ie: they get lots of practice, on the road we can't.

Better IMO just to have the ABS.

[G]

I am not sure about ABS. I can see the benefit I guess but I dont like the way high end sports cars have gone, where most stuff is done for you and I can see sports bikes going the same way and becoming less enjoyable because of it.

It takes the fun out of the driving/riding experience. For example I have recently driven a friends Lamboghini Galardo with E Gear tiptronic.

It had a couple of buttons, no gear stick or anything like you would even expect in an automatic... purely paddle flaps. I could not get used to it at all, I could not rev it as i liked, stick it in whatever gears as i like etc... this to me is to help people who are unable to change gear correctly (americans :rolleyes:) But it ruins the fun for the people who buy the machines for the driving experience by taking the actual driving controls away from them.

Ferrari are now the same, none of their cars will come with gear stick as standard.

Yes you can probably go faster easier and safer, but more boringly.

[-Ralph-]

It takes the fun out of the driving/riding experience...

Yes you can probably go faster easier and safer, but more boringly.

True, if you get your kicks out of the danger of it, and having ABS then takes some of that danger away.

Treat ABS in isolation, we are not talking about traction control, stability control, anti-wheelie, anti-stoppie or anti-lean angle technology to try and create the uncrashable bike.

ABS in isolation doesn't stop you from doing anything that's fun on the bike, unless you get your kicks out of locking wheels on wet roads, in which case your a bit nuts and you probably don't need it anyway, 'cos you already get plenty practice and know where the limits of grip are.

It should actually make pulling a stoppie a hell of a lot easier in terms of having the confidence to try it ;-)

[-Ralph-]

On the subject of traction control, the Bike journo's are writing in articles about the S10000RR that they have MORE fun with traction control, because it gives them the confidence to get on the gas earlier out of bends.

[fastdruid]

Real emergency braking is something you probably only do once or twice a year, and unless you find an empty car park and take the time to do so, not something that you can get practice with. Even if you do practice in a car park, as soon as you move onto a wet, gravelly or just worn smooth road surface, your back to not knowing how hard you can squeeze. All practising in a car park really does for you is trains how to brake properly, and gives you some idea of how quickly your bike can stop, but it doesn't teach you how hard you can squeeze on a cold wet road.

Racers know how hard they can brake, because they brake at full potential every lap of the circuit and they do it in wet, dry, hot and cold, on a fairly good constant surface it's their job, ie: they get lots of practice, on the road we can't.

You're not trying hard enough then. Seriously. I've practised wet, dry, icy, gravelly, muddy. I can brake pretty much as hard as my bike will allow.

Saying that I'd still have ABS if it was an option because it works everytime, if you're tired and not thinking etc etc.

Druid

[-Ralph-]

You're not trying hard enough then. Seriously. I've practised wet, dry, icy, gravelly, muddy. I can brake pretty much as hard as my bike will allow.

Well done Rossi! ;)

But how regularly do you ride on a track? You may not realise it, but that contributes to your ability and gives you practice.

I've never ridden a bike on a track.

I don't claim to be a riding god, and don't think the majority of riders can brake as hard as the bike allows in poor conditions, and know for sure that they are not going to bin it.

[Stu]

When you consider that they are dropping a lot of the speed limits on rural roads to 50mph, Are we supposed to give in to that too? :roll:



It should actually make pulling a stoppie a hell of a lot easier in terms of having the confidence to try it ;-)
Confidence to try it, but it could stop you achieving it IMO the rear wheel spinning in the air at the old speed while the front wheel slows down? All ABS will do is recognise the differential in wheel speeds & cut braking power to the front.

Or alternatively, combined abs - rear wheel in the air is also braked so it stops, you then have no abs control on the front

[fastdruid]

It doesn't need riding on a track it just needs the will (or effort) to do it. I was good at braking well before I was doing lots of trackdays.

The other year I took a few learner friends to a car park and got them to practice emergency stops, by the end they had *halved* their stopping distances! I also found that the VFR750 will stop 1ft later than an RVF400 from 30mph, the RVF is limited by keeping the rear on the ground, the VFR by grip and suspension. Locking the front wheel adds 1-2m to stopping distances.

On the road I practice by braking early but hard, by aiming to be at a certain speed by a certain limit and by well braking hard.

Druid

[Stig]

It won't happen. (in my opinion)

[Dicky Ticker]

Stu---Nobody is stopping you from speeding but it is a FACT,they have already dropped a lot of rural roads from 60 to 50mph

[fastdruid]

Stu---Nobody is stopping you from speeding but it is a FACT,they have already dropped a lot of rural roads from 60 to 50mph

My fav route to work used to be NSL, it is now a 40. Apart from a short stretch which is now 50 and a very very short stretch which is still NSL. :(

I used to religiously obey 30's 40's, 50's and just go a little mad from time to time in NSLs, now I'm getting to the point of "f*ck them".

Druid

[ranathari]

It doesn't need riding on a track it just needs the will (or effort) to do it. I was good at braking well before I was doing lots of trackdays.

The other year I took a few learner friends to a car park and got them to practice emergency stops, by the end they had *halved* their stopping distances! I also found that the VFR750 will stop 1ft later than an RVF400 from 30mph, the RVF is limited by keeping the rear on the ground, the VFR by grip and suspension. Locking the front wheel adds 1-2m to stopping distances.

On the road I practice by braking early but hard, by aiming to be at a certain speed by a certain limit and by well braking hard.

Druid

There comes a point where it doesn't matter how good you are, you just simply cannot react/control your reflexes quickly enough. That's where ABS comes in even for skilled riders.

Are we supposed to give in to that too? :roll:


Confidence to try it, but it could stop you achieving it IMO the rear wheel spinning in the air at the old speed while the front wheel slows down? All ABS will do is recognise the differential in wheel speeds & cut braking power to the front.

Or alternatively, combined abs - rear wheel in the air is also braked so it stops, you then have no abs control on the front

The new ABS systems are sophisticated enough to be able to distinguish between locking the wheel and trying to pull a wheelie.