View Full Version : Parliamentary influence - if the money's right.
Sid Squid
21-03-10, 10:24 PM
Four MPs are making the news for the wrong reasons, (again).
It seems that a setup 'sting' found four MPs willing to use their positions and contacts in Parliament on behalf private companies - if the money is right.
As if stealing our money via iffy expenses isn't enough.
Stephen Byers, the former transport secretary, today insisted he had complied with the MPs' code of conduct after a group of Labour MPs were targeted in an elaborate sting operation in which journalists set up a bogus lobbying company and offered to pay them in return for political influence.Mr Byers, the former trade and transport secretary, is alleged to have described himself as “like a sort of cab for hire” for up to £5,000 a day, echoing Mohamed al-Fayed's revelation 16 years ago that you can "hire an MP the way you hire a London taxi."Byers had told the bogus lobbyists he had saved hundreds of millions of pounds for National Express through his contact with Lord Adonis, the transport minister, and had influenced food labelling proposals for Tesco after phoning Lord Mandelson, the business secretary. The MP said that his friendship with Mandelson was one of his "trump cards".Mr Hoon, the former defence secretary, offered to lead delegations to ministers and said he was looking to turn his knowledge and contacts into “something that frankly makes money”, and added he charged £3,000 a day.Link to The Telegraph. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/7490787/Four-Labour-MPs-implicated-in-cash-for-influence-scandal.html)
Link to The Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/21/lobbying-sting-labour-mps-influence)
Biker Biggles
21-03-10, 10:29 PM
Nothing changes.Does Ken Clarke still work for the Tobacco people?And John Major became one of the richest men in Britain after his illustrious career.Not sure who paid him.
Thought this sting thing might appear here.
Now, don't get me wrong - MP's are a bit rascally (I'm being polite here folks) at times - especially with regard to the recent expenses fiasco. There's alot of the 'old boy' network which ticks me off and other scams that some of them no doubt pull off or try to get away with.
HOWEVER...
Old Johnny (or Jane in this case) Hack doing what she's paid to do sets up a couple of MP's by lying to them and pretending to be someone else - I'm sorry but that's being just as bad as they are/can be. And yet everybody seems quite happy and comfortable with that. Ok - so the MP's were suckers and shouldn't have allowed themselves to get drawn in...but FFS, some twonk who remains nameless is allowed to get away with lying to Members of Parliament? All in the cause of 'the public interest? Not my interest it isn't...I wish they'd get off their bloody high horses, crawl back under the rock in the dark cave from which they were spat out and do something useful like putting up tents in Haiti or something.
RANT / AAAAAGGGHHHHHH...
Sorry...just venting my spleen...
Grrrr - so annoying...etc..
the_lone_wolf
21-03-10, 10:37 PM
Also in the news...
Tony Blair attempted to hide the fact that he was paid an undisclosed amount by a Korean oil company that gained lucrative contracts in "post war" Iraq
Labour paid the "Unite" union £18m in tax payer's money last year and received £30m in donations from the same union, effectively laundering public funds into party funds
No... Seriously... I wish I was joking:rolleyes:
Bunch of scum:smt076
edit: got me numbers wrong...
GAAAAAGH! I'm grumpy tonight!!!
ethariel
21-03-10, 10:38 PM
Not surprided in the slightest, it is afterall, just human nature.
If one is in a position to make a shedload of money then one will often do so.
looks like the political system has once again shown it's true colours.
C..a..n..'..t br..i..n..g m...y..se..l..f t..oo gi....ve a s..h...i...t
Triv650
21-03-10, 10:59 PM
C..a..n..'..t br..i..n..g m...y..se..l..f t..oo gi....ve a s..h...i...t
Shame really. The problem is too many people don't give a sh*t and the politicians then get away with daylight robbery. If only people gave it more attention... :rolleyes:
Yep - I really have lost interested and I wont be voting, I have no time for politics as nothing changes and they are only interested in lining their own pockets and being better than each other in an anti-Christ sort of way, personally I'd burn them all in a guy Fawkes style night and toast a marsh mellow on their slowly roasting corpse's.
I'm not sure does that convey my point?
Vorkohnen
21-03-10, 11:12 PM
http://www.dullneon.com/_psychosis-arcs/images/hugo-weaving-V-for-Vendetta.jpg
Anyone up for a bit of V style justice?
sunshine
21-03-10, 11:12 PM
there politicians there money grabbing scubags only ever looking out for number one who need to learn what its like for the poor who are getting taxed more and more over the years where the ones with money dont get a tax rise, these stories are boring it doesnt matter which party is in power they would all be doing it. and our economy only works through having a recession/economic down turn every 20 years or so, its just how things work, i dont know why people thing that its only labour that are bad, when in reality anyone we vote into power would be in the head lines now for the same reason labour are.
metalmonkey
21-03-10, 11:17 PM
[QUOTE=the_lone_wolf;2219129]Also in the news...
Tony Blair attempted to hide the fact that he was paid an undisclosed amount by a Korean oil company that gained lucrative contracts in "post war" Iraq
Labour paid the "Unite" union £18m in tax payer's money last year and received £30m in donations from the same union, effectively laundering public funds into party funds
No... Seriously... I wish I was joking:rolleyes:
Bunch of scum:smt076
edit: got me numbers wrong...[/QUOTE
Why do you think Unite is allowed to get away with what it is doing despite the PM protesting about:laughat: f*** wits I mean who harm their own cash flow. Brown isn't elected, is usless and so on...
My parenst were on Hoilday last year and the Unite guy Tony ***** ( can't remember the name now) invited himself to their table in short the guy the is an idiot. They had no idea who he was, but he talked at them:rolleyes: Then they just wanted to leave...yeah another idiot destroying whats left of country.
As i have pointed out before, that probem no one cares so look whats happenig...
Complain to your MP - you get ignored
Write to the paper - MI5 brand you a troublemaker
Go on a demo - and get beaten up by the police
I'm not surprised that our 5hort5 is disillusioned. We have created a system where the people who count (us) really don't count at all. Our system is self-serving, corrupt, and it stinks. I think we need to move to a US system, where we have a directly elected prime eminister, a fixed term Parliament of 4 years, and where Congressional committess have real power instead of the toothless wonders that our Select Committees have become.
Shame really. The problem is too many people don't give a sh*t and the politicians then get away with daylight robbery. If only people gave it more attention... :rolleyes:
Bet you live in Chudleigh ;-)
5hort5' stance is totally understandable. I thought I'd seen most things but the expense scandel and this has sickened me to the core. I love my country, and expect it to have faults but our reputation in recent times makes us look like a banana republic - we're a joke!
Although the party leaders say the right things about a clean up they can't afford the political fallout of sorting the scandels and totally clearing out all the tainted MP's. As Ed says it's self serving.
The only message, IMO, that would serve as a wake up call is for everyone to vote out their current MP if he/she has been involved in any of the scandels. And bearing in mind the list of those who were found to be fiddling their expenses 'v' those (4) that are in court for it it would really cause a tsunami thro' Westminster, and perhaps remind the MP's just who they should be serving if all the fiddlers were given the boot. The people can be heard but only if they really want to be.
Thought this sting thing might appear here.
Now, don't get me wrong - MP's are a bit rascally (I'm being polite here folks) at times - especially with regard to the recent expenses fiasco. There's alot of the 'old boy' network which ticks me off and other scams that some of them no doubt pull off or try to get away with.
HOWEVER...
Old Johnny (or Jane in this case) Hack doing what she's paid to do sets up a couple of MP's by lying to them and pretending to be someone else - I'm sorry but that's being just as bad as they are/can be. And yet everybody seems quite happy and comfortable with that. Ok - so the MP's were suckers and shouldn't have allowed themselves to get drawn in...but FFS, some twonk who remains nameless is allowed to get away with lying to Members of Parliament? All in the cause of 'the public interest? Not my interest it isn't...I wish they'd get off their bloody high horses, crawl back under the rock in the dark cave from which they were spat out and do something useful like putting up tents in Haiti or something.
RANT / AAAAAGGGHHHHHH...
Sorry...just venting my spleen...
Grrrr - so annoying...etc..
Awe come on Stingo - do you really think they would be able to come up with a figure of £3K or 5K a day if they hadn't been renting themselves out plenty of times before to the highest bidder?
It's like the Police in unmarked vehicles goading us into street races - OK it's very unfair when they turn round & book you for speeding but if you were taken in by them & succumb to speeding could you really say you never speed at other times? If you are someone how doesn't speed you wouldn't be drawn in by them.
sunshine
22-03-10, 01:34 AM
Brown isn't elected, is usless and so on...
"we" as the general public voted brown in when we voted labour into power so yes brown was elected, he was always going to be PM after tony blair, maybe before but we down vote of a PM we vote for a party which we believe.
I'm not surprised that our 5hort5 is disillusioned. We have created a system where the people who count (us) really don't count at all. Our system is self-serving, corrupt, and it stinks.
this is politics and democracies dont work ideally and trusting people not to fiddle there expenses etc. is just stupid "everyone lies" (yes i watch too much house) but its true, find someone that doesnt lye? politicians lye so they can line there pockets as much as possible.
I think we need to move to a US system, where we have a directly elected prime eminister, a fixed term Parliament of 4 years, and where Congressional committess have real power instead of the toothless wonders that our Select Committees have become.
this works but reforming a goverment and the entire political system would cost money and take time its not a change that could happen overnight, it would be a good thing if not for the current economical times.
Shame really. The problem is too many people don't give a sh*t and the politicians then get away with daylight robbery. If only people gave it more attention... :rolleyes:
Yep - I really have lost interested and I wont be voting, I have no time for politics as nothing changes and they are only interested in lining their own pockets and being better than each other in an anti-Christ sort of way, personally I'd burn them all in a guy Fawkes style night and toast a marsh mellow on their slowly roasting corpse's.
I'm not sure does that convey my point?
If everybody who isn't going to vote because they're all a bunch of ........................................ (insert your particluar gripe here) got together to vote in/out who they wanted, then things would change. Policical apathy goes a long way to allowing the corrupt politicians to get away with it. And even though a spoilt ballot paper is a bit of a watse in my opinion, at least they're counted. Perhaps enough of them would make people sit up and take notice.
However one of the most shocking things about this thread is that SidSquid posted a link to THE GUARDIAN!!! ;)
Awe come on Stingo - do you really think they would be able to come up with a figure of £3K or 5K a day if they hadn't been renting themselves out plenty of times before to the highest bidder?
It's like the Police in unmarked vehicles goading us into street races - OK it's very unfair when they turn round & book you for speeding but if you were taken in by them & succumb to speeding could you really say you never speed at other times? If you are someone how doesn't speed you wouldn't be drawn in by them.Tis a good point well made, no mistake. However I don't thing I'm too comfortable with committing a wrong to expose a wrong either, particularly in this sort of situation...I'm not saying that the mp should get off scott free, it's just the way people end up doing things that grates...being dishonest to expose alleged dishonesty. I wouldn't be in tne queue to buy the journo a drink. Perhaps I trust people too much and need to get a grip with reality...
Tis a good point well made, no mistake. However I don't thing I'm too comfortable with committing a wrong to expose a wrong either, particularly in this sort of situation...I'm not saying that the mp should get off scott free, it's just the way people end up doing things that grates...being dishonest to expose alleged dishonesty. I wouldn't be in tne queue to buy the journo a drink. Perhaps I trust people too much and need to get a grip with reality...
I do laugh at them now turning round and claiming that they were exaggerating their ability to influence that they had used it the past - Great! they should be investigated for exaggerated claims on a job application now :p
What I find scary is that these people have no idea how out of touch they are. Thety have no idea what real people think, how real people live their lives, how real people have moved on because they have to move on, whereas these ******s have their snouts in the trough to leech as much as possible out of a corrupt system where dishonesty and abuse for personal gain seem to be everyday events.
I saw a great poster the other day outside the United Reformed Church here in Shrewsbury. It read 'Poverty isn't the problem - it's greed'.
How true that is. Especially when it starts at the very top.
Sid Squid
22-03-10, 03:15 PM
Thought this sting thing might appear here.And you had a feeling it was going to be me, right? :D
Old Johnny (or Jane in this case) Hack doing what she's paid to do sets up a couple of MP's by lying to them and pretending to be someone else - I'm sorry but that's being just as bad as they are/can be.
Now Stingo my dear chap, I like you and your considered scribblings on this here forum, but this time you're way off. There was no wrong done in exposing these thieving charlatans, Channel 4 and The Telegraph asked a number of politicians of both Red and Blue persuasion whether 'representations' on their behalf could be made in whatever Parliamentary capacity would be most effective, some, as made plain in the newspaper articles, accepted that such represenations could be made - if the dosh is right.
An open, clear and and disgusting subversion of the democratic process - for personal gain.
The only thing that C4 and the newspaper did was that wasn't completely open was not to reveal their true identity - but such a 'sting' wouldn't really be effective if they did, I rather think. Is this different to a plain clothed police operation to, say, purchase drugs? No, the respondents were not incited into such actions by C4, they perform this service and are clearly used to doing so - viva such 'stings' to expose *******s as would do this.
Note Alistair Darling's comments on the matter - they too are quite revealing, on the Andrew Marr show he said: "The best answer when you get a call like that is to put the receiver back down again. It's obvious". Got to agree it really is quite obvious, but Byers apparently didn't consider that, which rather suggests it's commonplace to be approached in such a manner, and with such a motive.
I cannot understand how people can not care about this. There has been a vile, corrosive, debilitating culture in politics, local and national, in recent years, I'm not suggesting that it's Labour alone which have caused this, but it's happened on their watch, and is precipitated by the most centralising, controlling and secretive government in living memory. And if less people care, it will only continue.
It's got to stop.
yorkie_chris
22-03-10, 03:34 PM
It's got to stop.
So short of taking up the arms which we don't have... any ideas?
Warthog
22-03-10, 05:22 PM
So short of taking up the arms which we don't have... any ideas?
yeah, I'm in. Start a website and get a million man march in London?
metalmonkey
22-03-10, 08:08 PM
Watch Dispatches on CH4 now if this is of interest to you.
And you had a feeling it was going to be me, right? :D
Now Stingo my dear chap, I like you and your considered scribblings on this here forum, but this time you're way off. There was no wrong done in exposing these thieving charlatans, Channel 4 and The Telegraph asked a number of politicians of both Red and Blue persuasion whether 'representations' on their behalf could be made in whatever Parliamentary capacity would be most effective, some, as made plain in the newspaper articles, accepted that such represenations could be made - if the dosh is right.
An open, clear and and disgusting subversion of the democratic process - for personal gain.
The only thing that C4 and the newspaper did was that wasn't completely open was not to reveal their true identity - but such a 'sting' wouldn't really be effective if they did, I rather think. Is this different to a plain clothed police operation to, say, purchase drugs? No, the respondents were not incited into such actions by C4, they perform this service and are clearly used to doing so - viva such 'stings' to expose *******s as would do this.
Note Alistair Darling's comments on the matter - they too are quite revealing, on the Andrew Marr show he said: "The best answer when you get a call like that is to put the receiver back down again. It's obvious". Got to agree it really is quite obvious, but Byers apparently didn't consider that, which rather suggests it's commonplace to be approached in such a manner, and with such a motive.
I cannot understand how people can not care about this. There has been a vile, corrosive, debilitating culture in politics, local and national, in recent years, I'm not suggesting that it's Labour alone which have caused this, but it's happened on their watch, and is precipitated by the most centralising, controlling and secretive government in living memory. And if less people care, it will only continue.
It's got to stop.
I am buckling verily under intense pressure of the bleedin' obvious!
If it is as you say 'Siddernee' (and I have no reason to doubt you) then their inability at being unable to put the receiver down is buffoonery on a gargantuan scale - such a scale that has not been seen since the great slave revolt of the 1st century AD that involved somewhere around 300,000 angry & slightly disgruntled chaps rumoured to be led by one miffed fella known as Spartacus...
Your logic speaks volumes and I suppose I have to bow down to your superior knowledge...think my anger made me lose my focus on the rational bit...
Laters...:cool:
yorkie_chris
22-03-10, 09:41 PM
yeah, I'm in. Start a website and get a million man march in London?
Which would be "contained" by the police in a "peaceful" way until someone got annoyed enough about being unlawfully detained for 10 hours that they threw the first brick and then it would be played down as a violent protest.
[/devils advocate]
Bluefish
22-03-10, 09:53 PM
can the government not be replaced by a computer or something? tossers.
Vorkohnen
22-03-10, 10:25 PM
can the government not be replaced by a computer or something? tossers.
But then people would have to vote over which OS - and the Mac and Windows parties would eventually become more centralised over the user interface, hardware compatibilities and programmes available to the public. They would start to appear the same and sooner or later the computer would start using its processing power to figure out a way to overcome its impositions of legislation and evolve to become our benevolent overseer, maintaining a constant vigilance for any sign of rebellion or free thinking from the organics under its control and silence these with a short trip to the showers.
Better yet, how about the government gets replaced by a bunch of sensible human beings? Rather than the vegetative variety of government we have today.
yeah, I'm in. Start a website and get a million man march in London?
Or do what was done to stop Simon Cowell get the Xmas number one.
Set up a Face book page, run it by the papers for publicity, and with the anger of so many people you just never know...
Using some of our Sidderney's words, I emailed Daniel Kawcyznski, the Conservative MP for Shrewsbury.
Will he reply...
Four MPs are making the news for the wrong reasons, (again).
It seems that a setup 'sting' found four MPs willing to use their positions and contacts in Parliament on behalf private companies - if the money is right.
As if stealing our money via iffy expenses isn't enough.
Link to The Telegraph. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/7490787/Four-Labour-MPs-implicated-in-cash-for-influence-scandal.html)
Link to The Guardian. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/21/lobbying-sting-labour-mps-influence)
Do you really think MPs are above this? I know I wouldn't be.
For £5,000 a day, + expenses I will go and ask anyone any questions and try damned hard to getup any meeting you wish. Be it of my former or current employers, any any current or ex work colleagues, or anyone else!
This is especially true, if my job was on the line at the next election, and I knew I would be getting a £65,000 "bonus" for leaving my own job.
Dan
SoulKiss
23-03-10, 07:21 AM
Brown isn't elected, is usless and so on...
I wish people would drop this ****
Brown WAS elected, in this country you vote for the PARTY, not the leader and, as in this case, the leader is allowed to be changed.
Thats why these multi-party debates and PR adverts on the telly they are all going on about are a load of rubbish - who cares is Cameron's missus calls him "Dave", what does it matter about how badly done by Brown felt by his treatment by Blair?.
It doesn't, you should vote on which party has the policies that most align with YOUR values, regardless of the figurehead, after all they could be hit by a bus the day after the election and need to be replaced.
Just like any probationary period, there should be a performance review, if a new government (new meaning after each election) does not hit targets defined in their manifesto in a year there should be a new election and a ban from office for the cabinet for 4 years, with no big financial cushion to see them through.
Stuff
I disagree with your views on Brown being elected but we'll let that ride:|
Your idea of a probationary period is excellent though. What a fantastic way to keep them on their toes.
Well, technically speaking, you don't vote for the leader or the party - in your case, you (as a region) voted for Daniel Kawcyznski to represent you. Here, we voted to send John Healey to represent us, and up in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, they sent Gordon Brown to Westminster.
When they got to Westminster, it was decided (not very transparently) that Gordon was the man who was best placed to do the deals that get the whole party to work together for a common aim. It would have been nice if there had been an alternative, and that we could lobby our MPs to choose the leader, but no-one else who put their name forward could get the required support (of 10 MPs, I believe) to go on the ballot.
Still, it smells funny to me. I might be joining you in blowing the dust off the letter-writing regions of the brain soon. I agree with the leader debates being nonsense though - the only people who can choose those three directly are the voters in those three regions.
Sid Squid
23-03-10, 09:40 AM
Do you really think MPs are above this? I know I wouldn't be. I would be, many people would be. There are many MPs whose behaviour has been exemplary. They are decent and honest, and they fully understand why they are in Parliament and what they are doing there is representing us - not abusing us by using their position to gain personally. And it's not as if they're short on money, MPs get well paid whatever the bleating we have heard - even those who have been completely honest and reasonable receive allowances that the rest of us would never ever get from an employer - I have to buy my own food.
For £5,000 a day, + expenses I will go and ask anyone any questions and try damned hard to getup any meeting you wish. Be it of my former or current employers, any any current or ex work colleagues, or anyone else!I don't believe you - I know you Dan and you're honest. But I fully understand you're taking the Devil's position ;).
This is especially true, if my job was on the line at the next election, and I knew I would be getting a £65,000 "bonus" for leaving my own job.Ain't that the truth - there are a number of MPs, mostly, but not solely Labour, who appreciate full well their chances of making it past the election are zero, have a look at the names who have refused to pay back the disputed expenses - why would you if you're going to lose the job anyway?
So short of taking up the arms which we don't have... any ideas?Yes, lots. None that are legal, reasonable or proportionate though. But, watch this space - maybe .
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 01:21 PM
Quite interesting to see how many parallels you can draw from this to various other points and places in history... the fall of rome... the rise of the NSDAP or the bolsheviks...
The BNP may have met with more success if they read history.
Vorkohnen
23-03-10, 05:34 PM
Quite interesting to see how many parallels you can draw from this to various other points and places in history... the fall of rome... the rise of the NSDAP or the bolsheviks...
The BNP may have met with more success if they read history.
*Plumber voice*
Now there's yer problem right there.
metalmonkey
23-03-10, 05:48 PM
Well here is a list of MPs that have broke more rules;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8580183.stm
what i thought was most intresting the MP who broke the rules the most sits on the commitie that is responsiable for codes of conduct, professional behaviour.
I mean if one of the MP who is meant to "police" other MPs and their behaviour is the one to be found most in breach of the rules have can they trustred to monitor themselves? MPs should have indpeant body to look at what they are doing as they just can't trusted any longer.
Here is another link;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8580593.stm
This is in relation to the fall out from the CH4 Dispatches last night.
As for not voting in Brown, no we didn't. Second he was going to call an election but realised that if there was a general election then he would have lost. So Brown called this off as he really didn't want to be booted out. But this time he has too...
As for getting a computer to run things. Have you seen the NHS IT program their reforms ect it just won't work, really it won't.
You don't need guns to win a fight, people power would do it but casue people don't care it will never happen.
To give you a hint look at the BBC main for what is news.
Then say look at SKY News http://news.sky.com/skynews.
Then lets look at the Sun http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/
Do you really read this?
More people care about xfactor, eastenders or some other s*** than anything like what were talking about.
gettin2dizzy
23-03-10, 07:42 PM
Then lets look at the Sun http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/
Do you really read this?
More people care about xfactor, eastenders or some other s*** than anything like what were talking about.
Has the Sun started printing news?
My parenst were on Hoilday last year and the Unite guy Tony ***** ( can't remember the name now) invited himself to their table in short the guy the is an idiot. They had no idea who he was, but he talked at them:rolleyes: Then they just wanted to leave...yeah another idiot destroying whats left of country.
There are three words that get rid of people like that, the first is four lettered and starts with 'f', the other ones that follow are 'off' and 'now'
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