View Full Version : Motorbike Warning from MP
rick0361
23-03-10, 01:31 PM
This makes my blood boil.
Huddersfield MP Barry Sheerman is quoted as saying in todays Huddersfield Examiner, page 5 that "Around 650 people on motorbikes die each year, which is an astonishing figure. In two years nearly as many people are killed in motorbike crashes as British soldiers killed in combat in the last 40 years.....If you have a husband, boyfriend or son who wants a motorbike, please try and persuade them to get something with four wheels instead"
What a ****!
Who the hell does he think he is.
In response I would say .. if you want your child to grow up to work at being immoral, irresponsible , a cheat, a swindler and a thief .. then tell him don't go for a life of crime - be an MP The hours are more sociable for starters!
Members of Parliament - when you are so good, that you are a shining example to the rest of us then we might listen to you - until then go back to your two houses, one of which WE are paying for, go back to filling in your claim forms for your moat cleaning and duck houses or whatever.. but please don't tell me how to live my life and that of my friends.
Oh and by the way I also believe that no British soldiers life is worth the sh!t you are selling us to justify YOUR wars which no doubt you are doing for the benefit of the arms manufacturers of this country. In my mind 650 britsh servicemen and women might have died doing their jobs but they sure as hell did not deserve to die for trash like this.
Phew!
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 01:34 PM
Before I send him a polite email, what is the source of this?
gettin2dizzy
23-03-10, 01:35 PM
Source?
I wouldn't get your knickers in a twist. It's not an election winning point.
+1 to what Chris said - I want to have a proper read for context before calling for his hanging.
rick0361
23-03-10, 01:40 PM
Source is todays Huddersfield Examiner Page 5 column 1 second story
BTW I don't actually favour hanging - public impalement is more my thing.
That or sending him out hunting IED's in Helmand province!
Source?
I wouldn't get your knickers in a twist. It's not an election winning point.
Does that matter? I want people of all classes and professions to stop spouting uninformed nonsense, so I may as well start with something I enjoy doing.
Mr Speirs
23-03-10, 01:45 PM
I wonder how many people die driving cars each year, or from smoking, or falling over.
People if you have husbands, son's or boyfriends who want to use their legs tell them no...they might fall over. If you have a wife, daughter or girlfriend who has legs that's okay as apparently they don't fall over.
the_lone_wolf
23-03-10, 01:46 PM
Considering this 'tard was:
99% in favour of "Iraq 2003 - For the invasion" and only 1% in favour of "Iraq Investigation - Necessary"
From his voting history (http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/1645), perhaps he should be looking inwardly before comparing how many bikers die to the number of soldiers his votes unnecessarily sent to their deaths...
******:rolleyes:
rick0361
23-03-10, 01:51 PM
Does that matter? I want people of all classes and professions to stop spouting uninformed nonsense, so I may as well start with something I enjoy doing.
Him or Me ?
rick0361
23-03-10, 01:52 PM
Source?
I wouldn't get your knickers in a twist. It's not an election winning point.
Perhaps not but this is the sort garbage that this current shower seem to come out with at the drop of hat rather than face the reality of what their ilk have done to this country since then end of the last war
Him or Me ?
Him - his words are more influential to the unenlightened citizens of this world.
Biker Biggles
23-03-10, 02:11 PM
Lots of people die every year,including MPs.Just one of lifes little certainties.
rick0361
23-03-10, 02:12 PM
Him - his words are more influential to the unenlightened citizens of this world.
Damn - I still have no influence!!
;)
How will I make the wife ever listen to me!!
How is it uninformed nonsense? Its probably not that far from the truth and thats that. Personaly i think he has a point. i know that my parents never wanted me to get a bike, and even after 12 years on 2 wheels, me mum still isnt 100% about it.
I still say that if bikes were invented today, they wouldnt see the light of day due to Health and safety etc.
metalangel
23-03-10, 02:20 PM
If you have a wife, daughter or girlfriend who has legs that's okay as apparently they don't fall over.
They don't ride motorbikes either, don't forget.
Triv650
23-03-10, 02:29 PM
I'm going to send a polite e-mail to Barry Sheerman but I'm not sure how to end it. "Up yours" or "Feck off" Choices, choices...
Srsly though, who does he think he is. Not that I'm trying to diminish the importance of what he is saying, but isn't this like an MP saying "If someone you know is trying to join the military, please persuade them not to as there is a chance they may die" I don't know whether he has the best intentions but I'm sure the vast majority of people don't need Barry's guiding hand of golden light when choosing a mode of transport.
davepreston
23-03-10, 02:37 PM
well ive survived a war or 2 does that mean i may as well ride a bike?
i know i'll sell my new bike and buy at ticket back to iraq as its safer
Triv650
23-03-10, 02:43 PM
well ive survived a war or 2 does that mean i may as well ride a bike?
i know i'll sell my new bike and buy at ticket back to iraq as its safer
Haha, sounds like a good move. Interesting how buying a motorbike is often considered stupid but taking part in extreme sports that aren't half as dangerous is often considered brave. Never understood that really.
That was why I'm interested in finding the source article - I suspect the ellipsis is hiding the bit I'm targetting, where we'll find something that is grade A nonsense.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 02:45 PM
If I didn't ride a bike or do any extreme sports I'd have to shoot myself in the head out of boredom, and statistically that's REALLY f*ckin dangerous!
The guy's a d!ck.
It's open mouth and spout some well meaning drivel just to keep his name in the spotlight at election time.
But hey, lets stop rocking climbing, sky diving, pot holing, Scuba diving, rugby, boxing and crossing the road. Don't forget, smoking, drinking and Cadbury's creme eggs.
It's his 15mins of fame. Don't even worry about it.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 02:47 PM
It's his 15mins of fame. Don't even worry about it.
On p5 of a local newspaper? Poor barstard doesn't aspire to much...
Even I've been on front page of my local rag :laughat:
timwilky
23-03-10, 02:50 PM
What is worrying is this guys sits on a parliamentary committee for transport safety.
Triv650
23-03-10, 02:53 PM
Anyone sent him an e-mail yet?
If I didn't ride a bike or do any extreme sports I'd have to shoot myself in the head out of boredom, and statistically that's REALLY f*ckin dangerous!
every cloud... ;)
Bikers die often at the hands of irresponsible car drivers. If being vulnerable is a crime, perhaps we should legalise weapon ownership so you can defend your property. Or shoot the idiots who don't see you. That ought to reduce accidents.
ChrisSV
23-03-10, 02:55 PM
TW*T!! springs to mind here
but on a serious note, this may seem like nonsense to alot of us, and we may be clever enough to know to ignore it, and just take it as a pre election rant, meaning nothing, But just take into account all the people that will read this, that arnt enlightened or clever enough to realise its just a confidence boost to him, and how many people are goin to read this and go "yeah good point" and pass it on, more than a few i bet!
rick0361
23-03-10, 03:27 PM
Found this - so if it was said in the Houses of Parliament it would be reported in Hansard
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?&topic-id=387623
rick0361
23-03-10, 03:28 PM
From Hansard 18/3/2010
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100318/debtext/100318-0002.htm#10031848000028
beabert
23-03-10, 03:40 PM
Doesn't bother me, no one listens to em anyway. Also If i had a child i would persuade them not to get one, id rather them drive a a car.
rick0361
23-03-10, 03:48 PM
Doesn't bother me, no one listens to em anyway. Also If i had a child i would persuade them not to get one, id rather them drive a a car.
I have a child and I want to ensure that in the future he is able to make his own choices - not have some "well meaning" (yeah right) person tell him how it is going to be
Works for me - I'd say Mr Clark was fairly clear in his rebuttal, without resorting to the emotive language of Mr Sheerman. May still be worth writing to him all the same though, if you live in his patch, and point out the error of his ways.
MP stands for massive pri*ck
Triv650
23-03-10, 04:05 PM
MP stands for massive pri*ck
Comments like that make me wonder if they will ever get public respect...
Respect is earnt, not just a title.
MP stands for massive pri*ck
Not all are that bad but I do understand why their rep is so bad.
But equally its like saying all bikers are ........... pick a typical non-biker response.
yeeh yeeh obviously not generalising, but in regards to this thread, and this MP, I believe sir, that it is a fitting comment!
"Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Often, it is the drivers of four-wheeled vehicles who cause the harm. But, what steps is the Minister taking to try to stop ordinary pedal cyclists going through red lights, cycling the wrong way and endangering pedestrians"
I like this dude already which party and where can i vote for him!!!
On a side note my parents (well my dad) doesnt like my bike but he respects my choice to ride and now looks for bikers where he didnt before. Should I have kids (lord help us no) i'll let them choose if they wish to be bikers or not, as for anything else (assuming its not illegal!)
metalangel
23-03-10, 05:18 PM
My parents do not approve. They didn't before my off, they extra don't after, though my father disapproves more than my mother (who is a closet petrolhead)
rick0361
23-03-10, 05:22 PM
Having recovered from the fit I had when I read the article in the first place I would like to point out what I feel to be the solution and it has probably suggested before.
1) It should be compulsory for all car drivers before they can even attempt a car test to have undertaken at least the CBT for motorbikes so that they can gain an appreciation of road sense on two wheels and the world from the two wheeled perspective.
2) All car drivers under the age of 21 should, in the same way as bikers, be restricted to cars which have a certain brake horse power and power to weight ratio. The concept and reality of 17 year old child getting behind the wheel of a powerful car seems somewhat akin to watching an African Child soldier handle an RPG7 Rocket launcher
3) All new drivers should have to display a mandatory sign on the vehicle to indicate to other road users that they are within 12 months of passing a test
Int his way at least we all gain some respect for the dangers of the roads that we all face daily (Thanks for the pot holes Kirklees) and for the other road users all around us.
I took my bike test late in my life having been interested all my life and it has made me a better, more alert driver to everything on the roads around me.
To the OP. A person (OK an MP) says he doesn't recommend males riding motorbikes
It's OK to hunt Chavs then?
Someone will recommend hunting bikers next - good grief!
Specialone
23-03-10, 05:30 PM
Havent read all the posts, but more people die from smoking related death than ever will on a bike.
Also, i read last year somewhere that more people are hurt (and killed) in domestic incidents ie, busts ups than bike related injuries and deaths.
So ride a bike, dont get married, its safer ;)
On a serious note, i wanna make that decision about riding myself, not have it made for me, so mp whoever you are, f**k off.
-Ralph-
23-03-10, 05:30 PM
If you have a... son who wants a motorbike, please try and persuade them to get something with four wheels instead"!
My two and a half year old had his first wee trip up the driveway and into the garage on Sunday night, jammed in between Daddy and the petrol tank.
Yesterday morning my wife and I were laughing at him chattering to himself in bed in the morning
"I went on Daddy's red bike"
"Daddy's red bike goes fast!!"
"I don't touch Daddy's bike because it's hot!"
"I like it! I'm not scared!"
Jeez, I'm such a bad father :D
the_lone_wolf
23-03-10, 05:42 PM
My parents do not approve. They didn't before my off, they extra don't after, though my father disapproves more than my mother (who is a closet petrolhead)
When I floated the idea of a bike aged ~19 both my parents had fits
When I was 21 I told them I was doing DAS and they worried but softened when they saw how much I was investing in it, ie: not taking it lightly
They gradually got more comfortable until I binned the 675 last year, it changed my attitude to riding but they were quite shook up (understandably) by seeing me in plaster and the bike in bits
Since then they've got gradually better, and since a close business friend of my Dad's announced he was going to pass his test and buy a GS he's been gently dropping hints - doubt anything'll come of it but you never know...
Oh, and there's the small fact that in her rebellious youth my mum used to ride pillion side saddle up the M1 with nothing more than a lid to protect her, on the back of Aaron Zanotti's father's bike:cool: - so she instantly lost all bargaining chips when that little gem came out;)
Now they worry about how far I'm going away and where I'm going to... Germany to camp in the snow brought furrowed brows, Morocco questions of health insurance and when I recently floated the idea of London to Ulan Bator in 2011 I got some pretty disbelieving glances over dinner:D
Havent read all the posts, but more people die from smoking related death than ever will on a bike.
Also, i read last year somewhere that more people are hurt (and killed) in domestic incidents ie, busts ups than bike related injuries and deaths
Yeeh but it's all about percentages really. More people smoke, and more people are married than ride bikes so that is why.
My parents HATE the bike with a serious passion, and don't see why I'm risking life and limb for a piece of metal. Kind of hard to reply with, 'it's fun'. What I really don't tell 'em is that it's addictive, and once you pop, you can't stop.
madcockney
23-03-10, 06:34 PM
The guy's a d!ck.
It's open mouth and spout some well meaning drivel just to keep his name in the spotlight at election time.
But hey, lets stop rocking climbing, sky diving, pot holing, Scuba diving, rugby, boxing and crossing the road. Don't forget, smoking, drinking and Cadbury's creme eggs.
It's his 15mins of fame. Don't even worry about it.
Everyone points the finger at others. My years ago we used to have horses and ponies and we and the kids competed with them. One day there was a situation where some pot holers had got trapped and my ex stated that they should not be allowed to pot hole as they were putting others lives in jeopardy trying to save them. I pointed out that it was other pot holers that were attempting to rescue them. Made no difference. So I then raised the question whether we should be stopped competing with the horses and ponies as horse riding is considered to be one of the most dangerous sporting and hobby activities. It suddenly went very quiet.
If you take the fun and evaluated risk element out of life what's the point of living.
rick0361
23-03-10, 06:40 PM
If you take the fun and evaluated risk element out of life what's the point of living.
+1 life is hard enough at times without having some fun. On the flip side I rock climb and that is not exactly safe either. Its only one step but its fardling big one if you make a **** up (no soup intended).
There has to be some risk in everything we do or we would never get off the bed in a morning
rick0361
23-03-10, 06:42 PM
To the OP. A person (OK an MP) says he doesn't recommend males riding motorbikes
It's OK to hunt Chavs then?
Someone will recommend hunting bikers next - good grief!
Yep coz the two little turds that assaulted me at the traffic lights last year got off scott free - not enough evidence even though it was in front of about 20 witnesses.
Yep coz the two little turds that assaulted me at the traffic lights last year got off scott free - not enough evidence even though it was in front of about 20 witnesses.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Some people have similarly stereotypical negative views about bikers.
All I'm saying is, it's OK for someone to have an alternative opinion to yours, and to express that opinion in public. Like you have.
I think that people are right to voice concern about bike KSIs. But I don't like the emotive language in the Hansard report - 'widow makers, 'orphan makers' and so on.
Life is full of other people wanting to impose their views on others, to repress minorities. Why should bikes be any different I spose...
Specialone
23-03-10, 07:00 PM
I'm sorry to hear that.
Some people have similarly stereotypical negative views anout bikers.
All I'm saying is, it's OK for someone to have an alternative opinion to your, and to express that opinion in public. Like you have.
Having an opinion is one thing and thats fine, but if you're in the public domain, carry influence, celebrity etc you should be careful on what you say as it will be taken by some as gospel and not factual.
harry04
23-03-10, 07:41 PM
What a ****!
Who the hell does he think he is.
In response I would say .. if you want your child to grow up to work at being immoral, irresponsible , a cheat, a swindler and a thief .. then tell him don't go for a life of crime - be an MP The hours are more sociable for starters!
If there was a "like" feature on svforums like facebook i'd defiantly like this comment.
gettin2dizzy
23-03-10, 07:57 PM
1) It should be compulsory for all car drivers before they can even attempt a car test to have undertaken at least the CBT for motorbikes so that they can gain an appreciation of road sense on two wheels and the world from the two wheeled perspective.
2) All car drivers under the age of 21 should, in the same way as bikers, be restricted to cars which have a certain brake horse power and power to weight ratio. The concept and reality of 17 year old child getting behind the wheel of a powerful car seems somewhat akin to watching an African Child soldier handle an RPG7 Rocket launcher
3) All new drivers should have to display a mandatory sign on the vehicle to indicate to other road users that they are within 12 months of passing a test
More bureaucracy is JUST what we need :lol:
To answer:
1. BONKERS idea. Most people aren't cut out for driving a car never mind a bike. What next, everyone to drive a bus? HGV? Jumbo? Come on ...
2. That already operates. It's called insurance. Try running some quotes for a 21yr old on a slow ancient volvo never mind 17yr old in a SEXO STI. Not many 17yr olds have 5k to burn on insurance on a 1k car.
3. New drivers don't cause that many accidents, and putting plates on isn't going to prevent their errors. I don't think any kid would drive with them on anyway. I didn't own a set of Ls for my 125 for 18 months :rolleyes: They're optional right? ;)
Truth be told, we manage quite well on our crowded little island all in a stressed rush driving around 1.5 tons of steel faster than we should. We can't whinge about the 'nanny state', take no responsibility ourselves and then whinge when new rules are introduced.
Facts:
People will drive with phones - Hey it's boring and your phone is in reach
People make mistakes - Even our idols Tiger Woods and Ashley Cole :rolleyes:
Cars are dangerous - You wouldn't drive your garage at 40mph down the high street
**** happens - Every ... single ... day.
-Ralph-
23-03-10, 08:10 PM
Having recovered from the fit I had when I read the article in the first place I would like to point out what I feel to be the solution and it has probably suggested before.
1) It should be compulsory for all car drivers before they can even attempt a car test to have undertaken at least the CBT for motorbikes so that they can gain an appreciation of road sense on two wheels and the world from the two wheeled perspective.
2) All car drivers under the age of 21 should, in the same way as bikers, be restricted to cars which have a certain brake horse power and power to weight ratio. The concept and reality of 17 year old child getting behind the wheel of a powerful car seems somewhat akin to watching an African Child soldier handle an RPG7 Rocket launcher
3) All new drivers should have to display a mandatory sign on the vehicle to indicate to other road users that they are within 12 months of passing a test
Int his way at least we all gain some respect for the dangers of the roads that we all face daily (Thanks for the pot holes Kirklees) and for the other road users all around us.
I took my bike test late in my life having been interested all my life and it has made me a better, more alert driver to everything on the roads around me.
1. If they can't handle a moped, or learn to handle one, should they be allowed in control of 2 tonnes of metal?
2. Agreed, insurance doesn't control it, loads either drive uninsured or they manage to find the money somewhere. How many 17 year olds do you see in a 1.6 16v Saxo that does 0-80 in under 9 seconds and has 120bhp? How many 20-25 year olds in a Subaru Impreza STI? If a copper could look at a driver and look at a car, and know straight away it was illegal without even needing to see an insurance certificate, there would be very few young people driving powerful cars. Bikes have a 33bhp limit, why can't cars have something similar.
3. Just as Gettin2Dizzy has demonstrated, you will get the idiots who refuse to use them, but that happens now with L plates, you won't change that. Just make it a 6 point offence and make then have to retake the test the first time they get caught. Other countries have a new driver plate and the majority of new drivers display them as they should, why should it be any different here.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 08:14 PM
How many accidents are caused by youngsters with too much power?
You're just as sore hitting the side of a nissan micra 998cc that pulled out on you.
the_lone_wolf
23-03-10, 08:19 PM
How many accidents are caused by youngsters with too much power?
You're just as sore hitting the side of a nissan micra 998cc that pulled out on you.
If he'd been in a Lambo he'd have cleared the junction and no accident would have occurred...
Specialone
23-03-10, 08:21 PM
1. If they can't handle a moped, or learn to handle one, should they be allowed in control of 2 tonnes of metal?
2. Agreed, insurance doesn't control it, loads either drive uninsured or they manage to find the money somewhere. How many 17 year olds do you see in a 1.6 16v Saxo that does 0-80 in under 9 seconds and has 120bhp? How many 20-25 year olds in a Subaru Impreza STI? If a copper could look at a driver and look at a car, and know straight away it was illegal without even needing to see an insurance certificate, there would be very few young people driving powerful cars. Bikes have a 33bhp limit, why can't cars have something similar.
3. Just as Gettin2Dizzy has demonstrated, you will get the idiots who refuse to use them, but that happens now with L plates, you won't change that. Just make it a 6 point offence and make then have to retake the test the first time they get caught. Other countries have a new driver plate and the majority of new drivers display them as they should, why should it be any different here.
Since i done my CBT, i am firmly behind the cbt before car debate, i went to mine thinking i couldnt learn anything new, but i was 100% wrong, i learnt loads and i had been driving 18 years + at the time.
Made me have a better understanding of how and where motorcyclists are vulnerable.
Why shouldnt new car drivers under 25 be restricted the same as bikers, insurance as a deterrent doesnt work, what about the asian kid whose dad bought him a 944 porsche who crashed it and killed somebody, insurance would have been as much as the car, but if you have money it will be irrelevant.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 08:21 PM
Or he would have gone through the wall sideways... either way he wouldn't still be doing a million rpm trying to muster enough torque to get across your path and out of the way!
Specialone
23-03-10, 08:25 PM
How many accidents are caused by youngsters with too much power?
You're just as sore hitting the side of a nissan micra 998cc that pulled out on you.
Its not just about them pulling out, its the racing around the streets with no skill level for the power their car has.
Quite a few under 19's have been killed in the midlands while racing and losing it on bends and hitting trees, i know this can happen with insurance group 1 cars but its more likely in faster cars.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 08:28 PM
Sorry but so what, s**t happens. People get killed. It's harsh, but it is natural. I don't really care about the odd under 19 wrapped around a tree, same as I accept the risk of death and injury every time I get on the bike.
I for one am happy accepting the scant chance of being killed by an out of control chavmobile while walking home from the pub when compared to the oppressive governance which even slightly reducing this threat would entail!
Hell we've got laws to deal with this, we DO NOT need more of them!
gettin2dizzy
23-03-10, 08:28 PM
2. Agreed, insurance doesn't control it, loads either drive uninsured or they manage to find the money somewhere. How many 17 year olds do you see in a 1.6 16v Saxo that does 0-80 in under 9 seconds and has 120bhp? How many 20-25 year olds in a Subaru Impreza STI? If a copper could look at a driver and look at a car, and know straight away it was illegal without even needing to see an insurance certificate, there would be very few young people driving powerful cars. Bikes have a 33bhp limit, why can't cars have something similar.
3. Just as Gettin2Dizzy has demonstrated, you will get the idiots who refuse to use them, but that happens now with L plates, you won't change that. Just make it a 6 point offence and make then have to retake the test the first time they get caught. Other countries have a new driver plate and the majority of new drivers display them as they should, why should it be any different here.I wrote an answer. But it was too long considering how many things you'd massively overlooked.
You live in your bureaucracy-riddled state, and I'll take the airline with no X-ray machine thanks.
Risk...It's a number
Specialone
23-03-10, 08:32 PM
Sorry but so what, s**t happens. People get killed. It's harsh, but it is natural. I don't really care about the odd under 19 wrapped around a tree, same as I accept the risk of death and injury every time I get on the bike.
I for one am happy accepting the scant chance of being killed by an out of control chavmobile while walking home from the pub when compared to the oppressive governance which even slightly reducing this threat would entail!
Hell we've got laws to deal with this, we DO NOT need more of them!
In that case then remove the restricted license for bikes then, cos its unfair for them and not for cars.
BTW, if it was a member of your family that was killed by a under qualified driver in a fast car, you'd feel different (i havent btw)
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 08:42 PM
In that case then remove the restricted license for bikes then, cos its unfair for them and not for cars.
BTW, if it was a member of your family that was killed by a under qualified driver in a fast car, you'd feel different (i havent btw)
I don't agree with the 33bhp license as it is currently used.
But, there's no such thing as under-qualified. Why should an individuals actions make me change my mind about the system? Sure I'd want the individual stringing up by the knackers but it wouldn't be the systems fault.
That attitude is the "won't somebody please think of the children" whinging "it's all the systems fault" set of ideals which are an endemic rot on society. You wish to remove free will and choice and replace it with an even more invasive system of government.
To take this to an extreme example of why people who've been involved in these issues shouldn't be allowed near the law because they go all "helen lovejoy" about it is that lass whose daughter was murdered by some nutter. So they managed to ban extreme pornos based on this lasses misguided "logic".
Specialone
23-03-10, 08:51 PM
I don't agree with the 33bhp license as it is currently used.
But, there's no such thing as under-qualified. Why should an individuals actions make me change my mind about the system? Sure I'd want the individual stringing up by the knackers but it wouldn't be the systems fault.
That attitude is the "won't somebody please think of the children" whinging "it's all the systems fault" set of ideals which are an endemic rot on society. You wish to remove free will and choice and replace it with an even more invasive system of government.
To take this to an extreme example of why people who've been involved in these issues shouldn't be allowed near the law because they go all "helen lovejoy" about it is that lass whose daughter was murdered by some nutter. So they managed to ban extreme pornos based on this lasses misguided "logic".
Just because there is already a system in place and you dont want anymore, doesnt mean its the right one.
I hate legislation as much as you, but other 'bad' things are controlled by new laws and this is one i think would benefit.
Kids in fast cars with no regard for the road doesnt help any of us, eventually it will mean even tighter restrictions imposed and MORE legislation, better to try and control it now imo.
ceeshaw
23-03-10, 09:04 PM
In my opinion, the fastest solution to reduce the number of biker fatalities (as a percentage, absolutes are pointless) is to help introduce more youngsters to biking...
1. Offer FREE CBT's to all under 21's
2. Subsidise Test Fees (say half price?) for the same group
3. No road tax on small capacity bikes - reduced VAT on new purchases of small bikes etc.
More kids riding will make bikes a more acceptable mode of transport ("Well, if the government is encouraging it - it must be okay?"). It's cheaper. It's far greener -- the UK will be seen to be introducing new 'commuters' to a more environmentally friendly alternative than another car with one person in it. A lot of them will progress to cars anyway, but when they do they'll have that riding experience to fall back on and we all know riding makes us better drivers.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 09:09 PM
Just because there is already a system in place and you dont want anymore, doesnt mean its the right one.
I hate legislation as much as you, but other 'bad' things are controlled by new laws and this is one i think would benefit.
Kids in fast cars with no regard for the road doesnt help any of us, eventually it will mean even tighter restrictions imposed and MORE legislation, better to try and control it now imo.
A new system would be no better, look at the 33bhp one, it causes more bother than it saves injuries.
What other bad things are controlled by new laws?
Specialone
23-03-10, 09:19 PM
A new system would be no better, look at the 33bhp one, it causes more bother than it saves injuries.
What other bad things are controlled by new laws?
Speeding, smoking etc etc, when this government dont like something they legislate against it.
Like i said, the existing laws about young drivers dont work either, so we're no better off.
Defo think some change is needed, we'll have to agree to disagree i think.
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 09:24 PM
Speeding law is not new. Smoking law is a load of bollox, people should be allowed freedom of choice but that's another argument.
The existing laws don't work, the new ones wouldn't work either, so you're left in the same place with more of a PITA for responsible people. Just like the 33bhp law which restricts the bikers who wouldn't wally the throttle anyway, or the gun laws which take guns away from people not inclined to shoot people.
Specialone
23-03-10, 09:25 PM
Speeding law is not new. Smoking law is a load of bollox, people should be allowed freedom of choice but that's another argument.
The existing laws don't work, the new ones wouldn't work either, so you're left in the same place with more of a PITA for responsible people. Just like the 33bhp law which restricts the bikers who wouldn't wally the throttle anyway, or the gun laws which take guns away from people not inclined to shoot people.
It was when it came out :rolleyes:
ChrisSV
23-03-10, 09:30 PM
The problem with legislating and making laws against "bad" things, is teh fact that young drivers, and young people in general, plus anybody really, get a thrill from doin things they shouldnt, like breaking laws etc, so the more you ban the harder things are gonna be to control and keep under control
yorkie_chris
23-03-10, 09:30 PM
Motorway limit in 1965? Fairly old in the context of this discussion.
Specialone
23-03-10, 09:41 PM
Motorway limit in 1965? Fairly old in the context of this discussion.
Theres been more than 1 speeding law you know, it had to go through parliment to get speed cameras introduced AFAIK.
Speeding anyway was a quick one i could think of, there must be loads of laws around that we probably dont realise are there.
Carrying a knife is another, imitation weapons etc
rick0361
23-03-10, 10:54 PM
The biggest danger from someone like BS coming out with the statement that he did is that it becomes a bandwagon and every well meaning clod jumps in there with him.
With reference to this you only have to look at the wonderfully effective guns laws passed in 1997 I think that stopped private citizens from legitimately owning a hand gun.
This was the typical knee jerk reaction to a couple of tragic incidents and the reasons given at the time was that this would reduce gun crime.
Has it - I think not. The ones who want a gun to commit a crime can still get one the way they always could and the majority of law abiding gun owners were left wondering WTF happened.
This country has enough rules, regulations and laws controlling what we do on this tiny island without some clown wanting to add more.
The biggest danger from someone like BS coming out with the statement that he did is that it becomes a bandwagon and every well meaning clod jumps in there with him.
With reference to this you only have to look at the wonderfully effective guns laws passed in 1997 I think that stopped private citizens from legitimately owning a hand gun.
This was the typical knee jerk reaction to a couple of tragic incidents and the reasons given at the time was that this would reduce gun crime.
Has it - I think not. The ones who want a gun to commit a crime can still get one the way they always could and the majority of law abiding gun owners were left wondering WTF happened.
This country has enough rules, regulations and laws controlling what we do on this tiny island without some clown wanting to add more.
Yup spot on! Saw plenty of gun crime when I was at uni in Salford in the early 2000's.
The guys a fool, pure and simply. I'm with YC, if i want to ride a bike cos I enjoy it i bloody well will. I'm sick of the nanny state telling me what i can do with my life and what isnt safe. If I ride like a tit and fly off a cliff in france i'm sure no frenchman would bat an eyelid. If it happened in the UK i bet they'd demand a speed restriction of 20mph and 9ft high barriers to be erected ruining the beauty of said cliff.
I fear what this country will be like in 50 yrs at this rate. It'll be illegal to walk down the street without your state appointed safe walking officer.
Geez
rick0361
25-03-10, 01:13 PM
have to laugh Bamdwagon Barry got a slagging in the local newspaper today for being sexist on top of his anti motorbike statements.
Lots of good comments from local MAG groups saying basically lots of bikers do get hurt but usually by car drivers who need further and better training!
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.