Anyone ridden an R1200S?

[ThEGr33k]

Just been thinking about what I might replace the falco with when it comes around to it... Im really not certain to be honest... Id rather have a twin or V configuration. Im really not a big fan of IL4 screamers (as you probably know).

The bikes I have looked at are:

R1200S
RSV (put some riser clip ons on and it might be pretty comfy?)
Sprint ST 1050 (but my best mate has one so might look a bit... you know)
RC8 - but they are expensive and apparently the fuelling at bottom end sucks which isnt much use on the road imo.

I think the R1200S is a strong contender and it generally gets good reviews but im wondering what people who have rode them think? I guess if you have ridden any Boxer engine then that will give you an idea.

cheers :)

[philbut]

I rode the old R1100rs. It was a heavy brute and the clutch was heavy too, but the engine was nice and the weight was low down too. I'd have one for commuting.

Not much help to you as the 1200 is much newer but i'd say the boxer engine is very nice IMO.

[skyline]

Never ridden one so I'm not much use here but...

I reckon an R1200S would be an awesome bike, I love the look of them! Would be plenty powerful too. There's a forum thread on the net somewhere where an owner fits new pistons, heads etc and got something like 130bhp, I can't remember properly at the mo. Sound lovely with a good pipe too!

From what I've read about them the suspension might take a bit of getting used to, being a Telelever system and cos the engines air-cooled it might get hot in traffic. The main downside I reckon would be cost of parts, what with it being a BMW...

[ranathari]

I've ridden an R1200R (naked version of the S) in Sweden while on holiday and I wouldn't recommend it. The clutch is heavy as hell and takes forever before it bites and the gearbox feels like it came off a tractor; it was making horrific crunching noises every time I changed gear as well as forcing me to stamp on it to get it to move. The suspension is divine though - does a fantastic job of separating braking and steering so you can keep braking deep into a corner without upsetting the bike. ABS wasn't intrusive and I wasn't aware of it until I deliberately tried to provoke it with an emergency stop. I found the ergonomics pretty uncomfortable but I generally prefer sport touring positions rather than the upright nature of nakeds so that's a personal preference (and doesn't really tell you anything about the R1200S).

As much as I wanted to love the bike, I could not see myself putting up with that dreadful clutch and gearbox all the time. It drove me mental over the few days I had on the bike and it just felt agricultural. I got used to the bizarre button layout BMW favour after a while but that wasn't pleasant either.

[skyline]

Here ya go...shiny engine parts ahoy! :cool:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/448455-warning-bike-guts-piston-rod-job-underway.html

Probably an urban myth or something but I've heard that if you keep the bike on the sidestand, because of boxer configuration the oil drains from the r/h cylinder and and collects in the l/h one and when you start the engine you hear lots of noises for a few second before the oil gets back to the r/h head...:pale:

Might need to rock the bike side to side or crank the engine on the starter only to redistribute the oil before it gets started properly. Or fit a rockerlube maybe...

Sorry for all the excitement and weird info! I was interested in these bikes a while ago but would cost too much for me at this point

[ThEGr33k]

Hmph. Shame about the gear box... Not worried about the clutch, my falco clutch is very heavy, infact after riding the falco for a while I pulled the SV clutch in and thought it was broke, it was so light!!!

Gearbox would be a bitch though, how old was it? could it just have needed running in?

[GeneticBubble]

Get an rsv purely because they look the sex :cool:

or an rc8 for the same reason.

[carternd]

I want one! Might need to save for a bit. They look the business in the flesh, and sound great.

[ranathari]

Hmph. Shame about the gear box... Not worried about the clutch, my falco clutch is very heavy, infact after riding the falco for a while I pulled the SV clutch in and thought it was broke, it was so light!!!

Gearbox would be a bitch though, how old was it? could it just have needed running in?

2 years old. BMW gearboxes are just poor in general, it seems (except the new generation of bikes).

[fatneck]

Rc8 ftw !!!

[fatneck]

Why won't it let me type in capitals FFS?

[fatneck]

Rc8 ftw

[Ploppy]

I think its because it thinks you have just accidentally stuck caps on... Leave one lower case and it will leave the rest alone.

[fatneck]

How annoying! Anyway I think you should try the RC8, its a pretty sharp looking bike, adjustable everything so comfy or attack mode. Give it a go, see if you agree with Squirrelhunters review of it.

[the_lone_wolf]

rc8 ftw

RC8 FTW

LOL LOL ALL CAPS MUTHA****A

:p

;)

[MattCollins]

Nothing wrong with r1200 gearboxes except that they require deliberate shifts. You don't get to poke at them like Japanese gearboxes.

[ranathari]

Nothing wrong with r1200 gearboxes except that they require deliberate shifts. You don't get to poke at them like Japanese gearboxes.

I didn't realise stamping so hard you're worried about snapping the lever was a deliberate feature rather than poor design that interferes with your riding rather than enabling you to smoothly ride fast.

[MattCollins]

I was talking generally and the post was aimed at ThEGr33k's comments. Best bet is that he gets out and ride one.

I have no idea what was going on with the bike you rode.

[ThEGr33k]

Suppose you do get the odd bad one and lets hope the one you rode ranathari was a bad one...

I think when it comes to the time (will be a little while yet me thinks) ill see about getting a test on as many bikes as I can. Would love the RC8 but ill need it to be able to do town work really, well unless I get a commuter and have that for fun.

[carternd]

BMW's are famous for clunky gearchanges. And having different indicators that confuse the life out of reviewers. And lead-lined clutch cables. The oil pooling in the left hand head is nothing new either. And yet they still sell and most people prefer the R series, despite the design of the engine (in very general terms) being hopelessly outmoded. Can they all be wrong?

Clunky gearchange - follow the system of bike control and plan ahead.
Heavy clutch - man up.
Oil pooling - centre stand. (though I dunno if the R1200S has one...)

[Sid Squid]

R12S is excellent, a subtle but significant improvement over the 1100, (the 1100 probably only scores by being generally considered better looking, but that's a very personal thing obviously), there's no question that both are by any reasonable standard large and heavy, but both are also impressive and extremely capable real world motorcycles. The thing about them is that they're Beemers, which rather splits opinion - try one, you'll know soon enough whether you'll get on with a Beemer or not, but, be prepared to be surprised, BMWs may have a reputation for being staid and dependable but lacking in fun, but that's just not true, both are serious VFR competition - both practical and enjoyable.

Im really not a big fan of IL4 screamers
Yawn: Most fours simply aren't 'screamers' - whatever that means.

[ThEGr33k]

There isnt a lot of info on the R1200S really. Shady! :( Infact they arnt even on BMW's site!? :-?

Apparently the R1200S is 195KG dry which is pretty comparable to the Jap thous... How it caries the weight though might make it feel heavier though,




Yawn: Most fours simply aren't 'screamers' - whatever that means.

Asin the configuration, the standard IL4, firing every 180*, seems to have something missing for me...

[Lozzo]

I despise newer BMWs mainly because the later oilhead 1200 engines have terrible reputations for shagging gearboxes and electronics. they also have problems with the servo assisted brakes which can leave you with no braking power. i'd avoid one like the plague.

As far as the IL4 BMWs go, aside from the S1000R, which I havent ridden yet, I would avoid those too as they are huge great, heavy, unwieldy beasts that go quite well but lack every kind of finesse and character found in their competition. I've ridden a few and hated every minute spent aboard them.

Also, wtf is it with the switchgear on BMWs? - three indicator buttons to do the job that just one can manage quite succesfully on every other motorcycle produced. What are BMW trying to prove, because it doesn't work, it's not intuitive and it's downright bloody confusing as well as needlessly overcomplicating the electrical system.

[ThEGr33k]

On the plus side I dont think the R1200S has servo on it...

[carternd]

I despise newer BMWs mainly because the later oilhead 1200 engines have terrible reputations for shagging gearboxes and electronics. they also have problems with the servo assisted brakes which can leave you with no braking power. i'd avoid one like the plague.

As far as the IL4 BMWs go, aside from the S1000R, which I havent ridden yet, I would avoid those too as they are huge great, heavy, unwieldy beasts that go quite well but lack every kind of finesse and character found in their competition. I've ridden a few and hated every minute spent aboard them.

Also, wtf is it with the switchgear on BMWs? - three indicator buttons to do the job that just one can manage quite succesfully on every other motorcycle produced. What are BMW trying to prove, because it doesn't work, it's not intuitive and it's downright bloody confusing as well as needlessly overcomplicating the electrical system.

Servo brakes has been fixed. Gearbox (apparently) is getting better. Indicators is an idiosyncrasy, but my SV and my Honda Cub have indicators on opposite sides and I don't get confused chopping and changing. And the gearchanges are backwards between them. R1200S is a boxer twin. Not an S1200rr. Greek has a famous prejudice against IL4's, hence his barrel-scraping to find a new interesting bike that he hasn't already owned.

BMW Motorrad are just deliberately bloody-minded and idiosyncratic, which is why I'm going to get either an R1200s or a K100. And I bet I enjoy riding either as well!

[yorkie_chris]

Guy up the road has some panzer with a weird front end. He says it's a good laugh to ride and you'll crap yourself the first time you need to brake, as the lack of dive makes it feel like you're not stopping.

[Stu]

195KG dry which is pretty comparable to the Jap thous...
On what planet?
the K5 GSXR is 199kg Wet!
my zx10 is 175kg I know there's lies, damned lies, and motorbike weight figures, but I'd rather they were claiming it was 20kg less :)

[yorkie_chris]

Anyway gr33k boy if you had heard Jamessunhills GSXR750 you would not harbor such a dislike for the noise :-P

[ThEGr33k]

Tested weights are a fair amount more than the weights that the factories quote, infact I dont ever bother reading what the factories claim anymore as its rubbish and just look at when people like you and me find... Weights wet for all the Jap thous are a little over 200KG's, the SS600's are about 200KG's wet, as a side note, a SV650 is about 5KG's lighter than the 08 Gixxer 600!!

On a side note, one of the few factories not to bull **** on spec's is KTM from what I've seen. I like their style :)

[embee]

It might not be a valid comparison, but FWIW...

I tried a friend's R1150RS. I found it a big big machine, liked the suspension, disliked the transmission (and I have a 1975 R90S!), hated the indicator switches, loved the electric screen, loved the mile-munching 6th gear for motorways, overall I can see why some will like them but not for me, just "too much bike". The reliability issues would concern me a bit too (rear suspension bearings, electronics etc). Another friend had a F800 which did the infamous random brake disappearance which landed him in the middle of a crossroads a couple of times, so he got rid. That would worry me too.

[simesb]

as a side note, a SV650 is about 5KG's lighter than the 08 Gixxer 600!!

Didn't feel like it - maybe the SV just has a higher centre of gravity which makes it feel heavier.

[ThEGr33k]

Didn't feel like it - maybe the SV just has a higher centre of gravity which makes it feel heavier.


Indeed, probably just where it holds the weight.

Sounds like the BMW's arnt so reliable? :-? Would have thought they should be among the best! hmph.

I know I mentioned it before but im pretty sure the S dont have any servo's so shouldnt be an issue.

[MattCollins]

Sounds like the BMW's arnt so reliable? :-? Would have thought they should be among the best! hmph.

That's a load of bull. :) 327k mi and still strong when I parked my '04 and it hadn't lunched a gearbox, clutch, FD or electronics and had never left me standing by the side of the road.

It is just my opinion that because BMW's reputation is based on reliability and durability that people expect perfection from an imperfect piece of machinery and when expectations are not met (ie the first problem) they make a huge fuss about it. Add to that a new generation of overpaid yuppie riders who wouldn't know a camshaft from a dipstick and problems are compounded.

[ThEGr33k]

Fair point MattCollins.

My old man used to have an R1100RS (I think thats what it was), I asked him about his gearbox and he said "yea clunky and a little agricultural, but at least you knew you were in gear".

hmm

[STRAMASHER]

Love them. Gorgeous looks. Rare. Relatively cheap. Torque.

Luckily the luggage and pillion accom means its a no-no for me.

So I don't have to consider, £300 yearly extended warranties, final drives packing in early and repeatedly, r/h cylinders going pop, and £1000 out the stealers for a clutch change plus the numerous othe BM "character traits" already mentioned.

For balance they sell loads and loads of R series bikes, so the moans are going to be more and the beardy BM mob have always been famous for being vocal, even pre-internerd.

But I can't afford to be stranded...or just afford, for mega repair bills.

If you knew a good indie-dealer who works on them, then maybe worth a pop (no pun intended):p

Love these things below too, but constantly have the same arguement as above ,with myself :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/stramasher/599919214_KDszP-O.jpg

[ThEGr33k]

To be fair the clutch shouldn't be a big issue, my Dad managed to change his on is old 1100 so I can bully him into helping should I need it.

Right hand cylinder going pop? Something to do with the oil starvation someone mentioned? Surely that cant be right!?

How do the final drives give up?

[orose]

Well, our local plod do run R1200RTs, when they haven't broken them... probably says a lot that BMW replaced the S in their range with the K1300s in the current range.

[MattCollins]

If you are going to do the clutch then I'd suggest looking at the sprung centre RSR ceramic plate. These will take a tremendous amount of abuse.

I know nothing about the RH cylinder going pop.

There have been a few cases of the FD parting company at the pivot. The rest of the swingarm remains attached. This is a catastrophic failure.
The other is where the bearings and seals fail. I am not sure which fails first here and how much the rider contributes. IIRC, this affected some of the earlier R1200 bikes. Mine was amongst those that might have failed but the source was the web. ie unreliable. Again, I am not sure the extent of this issue, but there were certainly a few people making a lot of noise.

[MattCollins]

In Oz we get the HP2 Sport which on paper appears to be close to the R1200S. Nice bike but it does appear a bit of a contradiction with a couple of cylinders sticking out of a fairly slim fairing.

[ThEGr33k]

I like the look though Matt. I think it looks GREAT. I heard one lapping at Catalunya when I went there for the Motogp and it sounds sweet! :)

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Ef2bOAkQT8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Ef2bOAkQT8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

From about 1:20... Of course the mic dont do the bike justice but then they rarely do :(

[MattCollins]

That's fair and all that matters. I don't mind it myself, but I reckon it is a bit of an oddball and that the owner would have to be a die hard or slightly eccentric... None of which is a bad thing.

Out of your short list of bikes, I'd probably take the RSV.
If I wanted a bike that I could live with long term as a four seasons daily commuter, weekend scrapper, and Euro tourer I'd have a hard look at the R1200RS if they are still produced - NLA in Oz, but I wouldn't want one here. They're not exactly a sports bike in the company of the others on your list, but it is more than capable of holding its own and a great wind up for the sports bike riders. Totally different image though.
The boxers are bikes that you really do not put down without crash bars and this bike won't look out of place with lower crash bars (and a set of spots) to protect those vulnerable cylinders.

[Lozzo]

Servo brakes has been fixed. Gearbox (apparently) is getting better. Indicators is an idiosyncrasy, but my SV and my Honda Cub have indicators on opposite sides and I don't get confused chopping and changing. And the gearchanges are backwards between them. R1200S is a boxer twin. Not an S1200rr. Greek has a famous prejudice against IL4's, hence his barrel-scraping to find a new interesting bike that he hasn't already owned.

BMW Motorrad are just deliberately bloody-minded and idiosyncratic, which is why I'm going to get either an R1200s or a K100. And I bet I enjoy riding either as well!

I know exactly what engine configuration the R1200S has which was why I mentioned the IL4s in a seperate paragraph. I also know that BMW Motorrad have been using their customers as their test riders for the past 15 years with disasterous results for many of them. Any other manufacturer would have sorted an issue like malfunctioning brake servo assistance before the bikes got to launch.

Quite why any motorcycle needs servo assistance is beyond me anyway - unless they are so damned heavy they need it, in which case, why not concentrate efforts on reducing the weight, rather than adding expensive unreliable electronics to counter the effects of it.

The gearboxes are getting better? Surely by now a company with BMW's supposed engineering prowess and reputation should have sorted something as basic as a gearbox by now. It's not like they designed the boxer twin a couple of years ago, they've been churning out the same bag of crap for the past 70 years and still haven't perfected it yet.

Another thing that is beyond my comprehension is why people buy BMW in the first place. They aren't nice to ride no matter how hard you try to like them, and believe me, I really have got on every single one I've ridden with an open mind just hoping to be pleasantly surprised and been seriously disappointed. They are all (S1000RR excepted) hideously overweight, slow, ungainly, bad handling, uneconomical, unreliable and plain damn ugly. What most BMW owners call character I call design flaws or annoyances. Speak to any RAC or AA man about what bike they are most commonly called out to breakdowns for and they will all tell you it's BMW.

[Stu]

uneconomical,.
I thought the R1200RT was allegedly quite economical and the F800's at a claimed 60mpg were legendary for their economy.

[Lozzo]

I thought the R1200RT was allegedly quite economical and the F800's at a claimed 60mpg were legendary for their economy.

If you want more lies than a Labour Party manifesto, listen to a BMW owner raving about his fuel consumption and reliability.

[the_lone_wolf]

Come on now Lozzo, stop sitting on the fence and tell us what you really think...