View Full Version : More tech advice - Oil and fault light
Just incase there are new people reading this thread who has not seen the other posts I've made.....
The bike recently had a new front coil, new plugs and new front plug cap. HT leads checked and was running great again. Then Wootton Bassett where bike was running very hot due to standing around for ages and slow riding.
Went for a ride last week and noticed an occasional loss of power, like losing one cyclinder again. Check all the usual and topped up the oil and water. Unfortunately I over filled the water but didn't think it would harm and left it in there. Bike running fine again.
Took her out yesterday, checked the oil again and noticed it was low again. Put some more in and did a 30 mins journey no problems, opened her up and got her hot. Had lunch so bike had time to cool but on way home about 15 mins in I had loss of power, red light and FI on display. Pulled in as soon as I could and it recovered. Bike ran fine again all the way home.
Got home and realised the oil was "bubbling" but when I turned the bike off the bubbles disappeared and it looked fine - not creamy or white.
Been out there today and removed the excess water and checked the oil. It is about half way between F - L, hard to see when on your own! Checked the bottle of oil that I bought and its had about 200ml in it within the week.
Girlie needs to understand question ..... when the bike is running obviously the oil is doing its job, Should I see any oil in the window??
Have re-checked all the connections on the new coil and all looks good. Turned the bike on and let it warm up today and it sounds sweet. Confused!!!
Any ideas, help welcome xx
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 12:31 PM
Girlie needs to understand question ..... when the bike is running obviously the oil is doing its job, Should I see any oil in the window??
No, if the bike is running it should have sucked the oil from the sump and be pumping some of it around the engine, only when the engine stops and it all flows back into the sump will it show up on the window
Good, thats what I thought. So is a top up of 200ml oil alot or about right??
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 12:37 PM
Good, thats what I thought. So is a top up of 200ml oil alot or about right??
If it's 200ml low then it's perfect... If not I can't recommend it...;)
For a short trip it does sound a little excessive, to put it another way, the KTM used about the same amount riding to Germany and back
Alpinestarhero
29-03-10, 12:40 PM
200ml is not too bad; i recall pete and lissa had to top up 200ml every 200 miles. Keep an eye on your milage and on your oil level, and see how frequently you need to top up with a note of the volume; manufactures often say 1000 ml for every 1000 miles is acceptable, but personally I dont think you should need to top up more than 200 ml per 1000 miles, unless you really really rag the bike hard.
That would have included the Wootton Bassett run so no, not a short journey just seemed alot all in one go but then it was working hard that day.
Think Im worrying about nothing. The main issue is the fact the light and FI come on and can't seem to work out why.
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 12:52 PM
i recall pete and lissa had to top up 200ml every 200 miles.
I know he topped it up with heavy oil at some point...
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 12:53 PM
Think Im worrying about nothing. The main issue is the fact the light and FI come on and can't seem to work out why.
The ECU should have logged a fault code that caused the light, a dealer has the necessary diagnostic tool to read the fault codes and tell you what thee engine thinks has gone wrong...
The ECU should have logged a fault code that caused the light, a dealer has the necessary diagnostic tool to read the fault codes and tell you what thee engine thinks has gone wrong...
Ahhhhhhh ....
sunshine
29-03-10, 01:01 PM
Just start an Amanda in trouble thread get it stickied and post in there every time your having trouble it would be easier for you surely :D
have you considered selling your k3 and getting a sv which wont cause this many problems, maybe a curvy would cause you less trouble?
In her defence I have not had any problems with her until now. Yep I dropped her so that showed the bung problem which has now been sorted - by me YAY!!
Coil problem a bit unavoidable and now this, which I think is due to a combination of wootton bassett and getting caught in the rain last monday.
.... SO shut up!!!!!!
(love ya really)
sunshine
29-03-10, 01:06 PM
this is your 4th thread about her this year now??? not looking good is it?
do you ride women often Amanda? :D ;)
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 01:07 PM
The ECU should have logged a fault code that caused the light, a dealer has the necessary diagnostic tool to read the fault codes and tell you what thee engine thinks has gone wrong...
A paperclip :)
If you look up the "TPS adjustment" thread it shows you how you can put the bike in dealer mode yourself to check for fault codes. Just one connector under the seat you need to pop a wire across.
The ECU should have logged a fault code that caused the light, a dealer has the necessary diagnostic tool to read the fault codes and tell you what thee engine thinks has gone wrong...
Or you can put it in dealer mode yourself (as per TPS (http://www.sv650.org/sv_faq.htm) instructions) and we can then look the fault code up.
Meh!!! who's counting. It's a learning curve more than anything. When I can understand the bike better I won't need to post but in the meantime I am abusing the wealth of knowledge available in the org.
... what happens on the SV, stays on the SV !!!!!!
Make sure you check the oil level with the engine off, preferably hot but a minute or two after stopping the engine, and with the bike held upright. If the bike is on the sidestand and oil is visible in the window it'll be overfull and will tend to blow it out of the breather so appear to be using a lot.
While the engine is running the oil will have bubbles on the surface due to all the rotating bits throwing it around and "whisking" it up (the bulk oil itself will be aerated too, but this will be very small bubbles, a few percent by volume is normal). As long as it doesn't begin to look milky when cold (water emulsion) then all is probably fine.
Re the "hot" comment, is the fan working? It should come on when it reaches something around 100C or thereabouts (can't recall the switching temps according to the book).
Oh crikey -YC is contributing to the thread. Does that mean I have to un-ignore???? lol
A paperclip :)
If you look up the "TPS adjustment" thread it shows you how you can put the bike in dealer mode yourself to check for fault codes. Just one connector under the seat you need to pop a wire across.
That has disaster written all over it??? What are the chances of me electrocuting myself??
sunshine
29-03-10, 01:13 PM
Amanda i would be more worried that embee has no faith in your ability to check your oil properly.
if yc turns up you know its going to get fixed right, and how to do it at home.
You cant electrocute yourself on a 12dcv supply
Hahahaha!!
Thanks for humouring me guys. Like I said its a learning curve and keeps the cost down doing it yourself than running to the garage. Just bare with me and the newbie questions.
embee - thanks for the advice in "laymans" stylie. I understand now! and yes the cooling system is fine and seems to kick in over 90 and brings the temp down to low 80's so that looks OK.
Will have a go at getting the fault codes - seems to be the only thing that will shed some light.
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 01:20 PM
There's no shame in double checking your methods, most of the "bikes burning oil" are people checking it in different ways.
No chance of you zapping yourself on that connector.
But I'm not sure if the fault will still be stored. Either way, access dealer mode, it's something useful to know how to do.
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 01:21 PM
Or you can put it in dealer mode yourself (as per TPS (http://www.sv650.org/sv_faq.htm) instructions) and we can then look the fault code up.
Ah yes, I was wondering if I'd heard that about the SV or another bike and was too lazy to go look it up:rolleyes::p
Argghhhh! It's started raining. Not gonna happen today, better go tuck it away in it waterproof blanket
_Stretchie_
29-03-10, 01:28 PM
No one has mentioned checking the airbox for oil.
Or is that just curveys..??
Sorry, I've only ever had proper bikes (no one mention the Thundercat) so not sure about these SV's of which you lot speak, do you wind them up or put batteres in them??
:smt044
Gets popcorn and watches from the corner
.....huh... on an SV forum too. Shame on you, go wash out your mouth with bleach!!
Cough ....airbox, oil ...... cough wasssat??
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 01:41 PM
Normal :)
Soooo... just read through the TPS adjustment thread.
To get the fault codes I just do point 8 for linking the terminals on the Dealer Mode Activation Connector and then turn on the ignition?? This will give me a code for the error. :thumbsup: cool
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 01:57 PM
Exactly.
Then google fu suzuki fault codes... there's a page on TLplanet the tells you what all the codes are if any come up. (c00 means "all gravy")
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 01:59 PM
Soooo... just read through the TPS adjustment thread.
To get the fault codes I just do point 8 for linking the terminals on the Dealer Mode Activation Connector and then turn on the ignition?? This will give me a code for the error. :thumbsup: cool
Don't be surprised if it gives you a "♀" error
:smt058
_Stretchie_
29-03-10, 02:02 PM
Ha haa haaaaaaa
Don't be surprised if it gives you a "♀" error
:smt058
*thwack*
Exactly.
Then google fu suzuki fault codes... there's a page on TLplanet the tells you what all the codes are if any come up. (c00 means "all gravy")
Or check it in the K3 workshop manual so handily downloadable from a certain well know sv650 org site ;)
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 02:04 PM
*thwack*
:smt005:smt079
:smt047
Garrrrhhhh!! Just done it and no error code just c00
Does this mean it hasn't logged the fault??
I have put my little paperclip friend in the tool kit so if it does happen again I can do it straight away.
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 02:43 PM
Yeah it means it has not stored the code. Pop it in dealer mode if it does it again.
I think it only stores the codes for one ignition sequence. Get FI light, switch off, paper clip, ignition back on.
OK, I'll keep it in my kit and if it comes up again I can do it straight away.
This bike is definitely female, temperamental, hormonal and when there's a problem she does the silent treatment.
This bike is definitely female, temperamental, hormonal and when there's a problem she does the silent treatment.
Expensive too?
this sounds like a dodgy connection or faulty coil. Dodgy connections have a habit of breaking down when hot.
Also, dont assume that the new coil isnt at fault, it has been known. I would double check all the coil connections and give 'em a good clean with wet/dry paper (or a nail file :-) )
I'm a little surprised to hear that you have oil bubbling away, is the cooling fan coming on ok?
one other thing, very unlikely but possible.....I had a problem years ago on an FZR400 I used to race, it had a blocked fuel filter. The fuel would get through when the engine wasnt consuming it particularly fast but then under hard riding the float bowls would empty and starve the engine causing it to get hot. I know its not running on carbs but its another thing to consider.
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 02:53 PM
"If it's got tits or wheels, it will cost you".
You sometimes get oil bubbling/frothing in the sightglass... it's not the same as it boiling away. No way it can get that hot and not seize.
Expensive too?
.. but worth it for the thrill of the ride!!! :smt026
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 02:57 PM
In whose endo?
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 03:07 PM
How many dead babies does...........
Chris!!!
I'm shocked and appalled:shock:
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 03:07 PM
Lol don't start that sh*t again!
Chris!!!
I'm gay and I want your bum cushion now :shock:
Amended x
the_lone_wolf
29-03-10, 03:10 PM
Amended x
Who let you out of the kitchen???
:p
In whose endo?
Are you saying its not worth the ride??? Crikey hang up your leathers now ....
Nobbylad
29-03-10, 04:49 PM
Can't your other half help with stuff like this? (while you cook his tea, hoover, etc etc)
Can't your other half help with stuff like this? (while you cook his tea, hoover, etc etc)
Well, yes. However, I want to learn to be self sufficient and be able to do the basic stuff without having to run to him in a girlie way. Also he works all week long days, sometimes in London. This means nothing gets done till the weekend and even then my bike is not always his main priority.
Today I have ordered the Haynes Motorcycle Techbook and the Sv manual book of lies. I don't expect to know the complete ins and outs of the engine and how to fix everything but I do want an understanding of how it works and whether I can tinker with it or take it to the pros. :smt079
sunshine
29-03-10, 05:54 PM
using the org is free so why not use yc's knowledge, and then we get to make jokes about how many times you break your bike and that you should be cooking while someone else fixes your bike :D
Ah BUT maybe one day your bike will break and that is the time I will swoop in and take my revenge!!!
yorkie_chris
29-03-10, 06:02 PM
while someone else fixes your bike :D
Like me. For lots of money :cool:
sunshine
29-03-10, 06:12 PM
my bike is always broken, i just botch it back together and carry on.
Good maintenance keeps the bike working fine, unlike woman, no matter how much money you throw at a woman shes still never happy :D
I don't believe it. Managed to get the bike out today after work and took it for a spin. Still very noticable that something is wrong AND on the way home it cut out and I had the FI warning. It recovered and I got it home, did the paper clip connection and it never come up????
I have to take the key out of the ignition it get the seat cowl off to get to the connector so why the devil is it not logging the fault??
sunshine
02-04-10, 02:03 AM
because your a woman and doing it wrong!
you sure you dont want this stickied so next time you break down you can find it easier?
good luck with fixing it
does it give the fault code when it breaks down? us curvy owners dont break down so we dont need fault codes
Shut Up!!! what you doing up at 3am in the morning anyway ..
If you read the post proper like you would see that I said I tried to get the fault code straight after it happened but it didn't log it again. Confused ....
Is it because I turned off the ignition BUT it can't be cos I have to do that to unlock the seat cowl to get to the dealers connector.
Can hear it still struggling on tick over. Me thinks it may have been a dodgy front coil put on so gonna run it back to the garage on Tuesday.
Seggons
02-04-10, 11:27 AM
If you read page 2-12 of the owners manual it does look like you need to have the engine running to get the fault code. :)
OK just read the haynes manual and it says to put one end of the wire in then start the bike then put the other end of the wire in???
Will try that and see if it gives me a code.
yorkie_chris
02-04-10, 12:48 PM
OK just read the haynes manual and it says to put one end of the wire in then start the bike then put the other end of the wire in???
Will try that and see if it gives me a code.
That makes no difference, you're not making any circuit there.
You can start it in service mode.
not all faults will generate a fault code
not all faults will generate a fault code
That is true, if it is water temp you get alternating FI and temp display on the LCD.
I don't know what the devil is going on with the thing. Just took it on an hour's ride and nothing, no error lights, no FI warning. Did sound lumpy, throttle not smooth and a couple of back fires but nothing obvious to hone in on.
sunshine
02-04-10, 05:34 PM
Amanda i work nights i just got home at 3am.
Your bike is screwed, your going to need to get a new one to fix it.
Hi Amanda, I've had some fun with the FI light n fault codes so heres my pennys worth:
If its an intermittent fault ie comes n goes then when u turn off the ignition the FI system resets and the code is lost. The trick is either to ride it in dealer mode so the code will show directly it happens or if u dont like that idea leave it running while using the spare key to open the seat and connect the dealer wire.
*** just dont touch the wire to any incorrect connections or the metal parts of the bike as this could seriously damage its brain! ***
I rode around today with the seat cowl off so when it happened I could put the wire straight in without taking out the key. No warning light today but still didn't feel smooth.
fizzwheel
02-04-10, 07:24 PM
I don't know what the devil is going on with the thing.
Then take it somewhere that will be able to find out whats wrong with it. No point keep riding it around like that, you'll end up getting frustrated with it.
I know you want to fix it yourself, but interemitant problems are the worst kind of b*gger to try and diagnose and fix. Especially if its electrical faults.
Yeah Im gonna run it back to the garage that put the coil in on Tuesday anyway.
yorkie_chris
03-04-10, 10:37 AM
If it still doesn't feel smooth it could definitely be a coil issue. Maybe something as simple as a damaged HT lead.
Sid Squid
03-04-10, 12:00 PM
Is it possible that the original coil was not the problem? Has the problem altered since the coil was fitted?
Whether that or not, as was said earlier in this thread, not all faults will give a code - the system simply isn't able to report all possible faults. As this has already shown itself to be the case, there's no benefit in continuing with your attempts to diagnose - it will have to go to someone who is capable of a diagnosis.
Patience, I know its annoying but sure as hell the FI light will come up again - its sneaky and waits until you cant put it into dealer mode! And its no good going to dealers, many are useless on electronics and anyway if the code has gone they say 'it's got no problem'........I know.glang
FIXED!!!! Was the front coil as thought. Finally got the 024 error code, gave the connector a wiggle and worked fine. Although it was the first thing I checked it keeps working loose but is a bugger to get to. Gonna copper grease it and keep an eye
fizzwheel
04-04-10, 05:55 PM
Gonna copper grease it and keep an eye
Umh... now I am no expert but I would have thought putting copper grease on an electrical connector is probably not a good idea...
Chris says it's the same as what you put on battery terminals on a car.
yorkie_chris
05-04-10, 10:37 AM
Who the hell puts copper slip on battery terminals in the car? Use vaseline.
If connector is wiggling loose so easily then you need to tighten it or replace it or reroute wiring. You can't fix a wiggling issue with grease.
I'll have a proper look at it on Wednesday and see if I can tighten the connector. Trouble is its the bottom one and blooming awkward to get to.
yorkie_chris
05-04-10, 05:21 PM
Try remove it, and give the metal part a very gentle nip with pliers just so there's a bit of resistance on putting it on.
yorkie_chris
05-04-10, 05:35 PM
careful though, if you nip it too much it will not push back over the spade. If you balls it up you'll need to replace it... just normal female spade... less than a penny.
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