First ever Tank Slapper.

[Milky Bar Kid]

I decided about half two that I would go for a ride, picked a route that would take about and hour and a half.

Weather wasn't great here this morning, raining until about midday and since then, the wind has picked up. Most of the roads around me have dried pretty well with the wind so I decided to go for it.

So off up the A712 I went. Road was dry to begin with, nothing much interesting, not much traffic on it. I did the first section of twisties, again, nothing to report. I came to the next set of twisties, the road was wet at this point, like properly wet. I was taking it nice and steady, came into a left hander but on the exit there was diesel all over the road! I didn't see it until it was too late and the bike just went into this mad tankslapper!![-o< [-o< [-o<

It threw me onto the opposing carraigeway and towards a steep drop of a banking with lots of pine trees. I started looking at the trees thinking, Oh no....this is going to hurt...but then I just started shouting at myself "LOOK AT THE ROAD, NOT THE TREES! LOOK AT THE ROAD, NOT THE TREES!" And somehow, I recovered it.

I pulled into the next available layby and got off. could hardly get my gloves off I was shaking soo much! I went another 5 miles or so up the road and then decided to come home. What a slow ride home it was....

Anyway, got me thinking...what should you actually do in that situation? Apart from looking where you actually want to go, the only other concious thing I did was keep throttle steady, thinking if I lost power I might lowside and if I added power I might high side. I have no idea if that was the right thing to do or not...

[Bluefish]

I don't think what happened was a tank slapper, more the front wheel sliding on the wet/diesel road causing the steering to turn, as to what to do all anybody can say is to do what you did as it all worked out in the end. Good job nothing was coming the other way and you didn't go off the road, buy a lottery ticket, you never know. :-D ps in tank slappers some say to speed up some say slow down? :rolleyes:

[Milky Bar Kid]

It was a tank slapper. It started as a slide but it ended up in a fooking tank slapper...the insides of my thighs will tell you that! I am glad I don't have balls..!!!

[dizzyblonde]

Tankslappers, keeping blonde burds on their toes eh?

Yup know that one, tankslappers can range from the mild to the rediculous.
Makes your whole brain go into hyperdrive, as all your thoughts come at once!

[fatneck]

Well recovered mate, that must have been pretty scary. Quite hard to not look at what you're about to hit, well done!

Didn't Rossi or someone say to just wheelie out of a tank slapper :-)

[Milky Bar Kid]

Tankslappers, keeping blonde burds on their toes eh?

Yup know that one, tankslappers can range from the mild to the rediculous.
Makes your whole brain go into hyperdrive, as all your thoughts come at once!


Never mind on my toes, I was nearly on my fooking butt!!

Hmm, I would say this was in between the mild and the ridiculous. And yeah, brain went into superhyper drive!!



Well recovered mate, that must have been pretty scary. Quite hard to not look at what you're about to hit, well done!

Didn't Rossi or someone say to just wheelie out of a tank slapper :-)

Yep, defo scariest moment yet on the bike! If something had been coming the other way I would have been toast!

And yeah, I'll do a Rossi next time..lol!

[fatneck]

I fell off 3 weeks ago and broke my thumb. That included sliding across the other side of the road, I'm also thanking my lucky stars nothing was coming the other way!

Well played :-)

[dizzyblonde]

Never mind on my toes, I was nearly on my fooking butt!!

Hmm, I would say this was in between the mild and the ridiculous. And yeah, brain went into superhyper drive!!
!


Its what happened when I hit the deer.

If you stay on you have super uber powers;)

[Bluefish]

It was a tank slapper. It started as a slide but it ended up in a fooking tank slapper...the insides of my thighs will tell you that! I am glad I don't have balls..!!!


Sorry don't believe you, will have to check your thighs, you offered ;) anyhow all's well, that ends well. :smt038

[tanis34]

glad it wasnt worse for u m8

[Seggons]

Did it look something like this MBK?

LZ1srcQMa_0

:D

[Milky Bar Kid]

lol! To a lesser extent, yes!

[thedonal]

Nice work recovering that MBK! Glad you're still all in 1!

[_Stretchie_]

I am glad I don't have balls..!!!

Not sure I agree with that statement


Glad your ok chuck

[2hys]

so you saved it, did it look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A&NR=1 whoo hoo, go girl

[Milky Bar Kid]

Totally looked like that.....lol!

[yorkie_chris]

so you saved it, did it look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A&NR=1 whoo hoo, go girl

That's not a tankslapper, it was a highside he just forgot to fall off. :mrgreen:

You probably had a big wobble/slide not a tankslapper. A tankslapper is where the bars oscillate like in video seggons posted.

completely different from losing the back end and a load of snaking around which is more what this sounds like.


maybe pedantic but they are 2 completely different methods of crashing :smt040

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vzHO9Evb1g

Wonder how he got that nickname :P

[Milky Bar Kid]

That's not a tankslapper, it was a highside he just forgot to fall off. :mrgreen:

You probably had a big wobble/slide not a tankslapper. A tankslapper is where the bars oscillate like in video seggons posted.

completely different from losing the back end and a load of snaking around which is more what this sounds like.


maybe pedantic but they are 2 completely different methods of crashing :smt040


No, I know what a tankslapper was, and thats what it was.

[Sid Squid]

thinking if I lost power I might lowside and if I added power I might high side.
Most commonly the other way around - chopping the throttle puts you over the top, and the reverse is true too - too much and the back end comes out from under you, until the unexperienced chop it and then, well you get the picture.

[Geodude]

Well done on the recovery and well done for not getting hurt :)

[yorkie_chris]

No, I know what a tankslapper was, and thats what it was.

Only one I ever had constant throttle did not come into it because it threw my hands off the bars :eek:

Then had second rude shock that I had no brakes because pads had moved!

[TazDaz]

Someone must have been hooning it! :P

[Milky Bar Kid]

Only one I ever had constant throttle did not come into it because it threw my hands off the bars :eek:

Then had second rude shock that I had no brakes because pads had moved!


I will grant you that it started as a slide, fook knows what I did but next thing the bike was flinging itself (and me) side to side, my legs were flying about all over the bit! I have had slides, and had a pretty big'un coming home from work at 2am one morning this winter, and I've had wobbles...and this was faaaaaaaaaaaar more than a wobble!

[Fruity-ya-ya]

I will grant you that it started as a slide, fook knows what I did but next thing the bike was flinging itself (and me) side to side, my legs were flying about all over the bit! I have had slides, and had a pretty big'un coming home from work at 2am one morning this winter, and I've had wobbles...and this was faaaaaaaaaaaar more than a wobble!

Good skills, sounds like if you had nuts then at least one of 'em would have bought the farm!

Well done.

[dirtydog]

Blimey!

In 13 years of riding I've never had a tank slapper, had a few wiggles from the bars on the Raptor but that's it

[yorkie_chris]

I will grant you that it started as a slide, fook knows what I did but next thing the bike was flinging itself (and me) side to side, my legs were flying about all over the bit! I have had slides, and had a pretty big'un coming home from work at 2am one morning this winter, and I've had wobbles...and this was faaaaaaaaaaaar more than a wobble!

Heh.
when you can make it shake it's head a little bit it's ace. But the half-a-highside type thing is never fun! Mainly 'cos it means you came within a hairs distance of wearing your bike as a hat :smt040

Funny, with new shock fitted which is very much more planted I cannot make front end wobble at all, despite the steering being a hell of a lot more aggressive. (335mm > 355, probably 4" rise at seat)

[dizzyblonde]

so you saved it, did it look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A&NR=1 whoo hoo, go girl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vzHO9Evb1g

Wonder how he got that nickname :P

Seen both those before, I reckon he does it on purpose to add a bit of excitement into going round, and round, and round, and round a track:-D

[yorkie_chris]

Seen both those before, I reckon he does it on purpose to add a bit of excitement into going round, and round, and round, and round a track:-D

You got a license?

[Milky Bar Kid]

Heh.
when you can make it shake it's head a little bit it's ace. But the half-a-highside type thing is never fun! Mainly 'cos it means you came within a hairs distance of wearing your bike as a hat :smt040

Funny, with new shock fitted which is very much more planted I cannot make front end wobble at all, despite the steering being a hell of a lot more aggressive. (335mm > 355, probably 4" rise at seat)


yep, I was bracing myself for coming off, I have no idea how I didn't.

[Von Teese]

Slapper!!!!......well I do know of....
Ah! hang on, nevermind!

Well done you for keeping shiney side up chick!
I will let you sleep inside tonight while you get over the shock but then back to the dog kennel tomorrow night as usual! ;)

[ravingdavis]

yep, I was bracing myself for coming off, I have no idea how I didn't.

Well done for hanging on! My crash started as a rear wheel slide then into a tank slapper that got worse and threw me off... If only I had your skills!

[Milky Bar Kid]

Slapper!!!!......well I do know of....
Ah! hang on, nevermind!

Well done you for keeping shiney side up chick!
I will let you sleep inside tonight while you get over the shock but then back to the dog kennel tomorrow night as usual! ;)


Thanks Mistress, can I have a massage too? Please? [-o<

Well done for hanging on! My crash started as a rear wheel slide then into a tank slapper that got worse and threw me off... If only I had your skills!

I don't think skill had much to do with it...probably more luck...

[Von Teese]

Thanks Mistress, can I have a massage too? Please? [-o<
I suppose I can make an exception this time!
Besides I need you in top shape, dont I ?

[Milky Bar Kid]

I suppose I can make an exception this time!
Besides I need you in top shape, dont I ?



Note to self: *must have a scary experience more often if it results in Mistress allowing me a massage....**

[Von Teese]

hehee x

[carternd]

Bloody hell! Good one getting out of it - luck or judgement, who cares? No crash is GOOD THING!
I'd probably have given up on the ride too, I don't normally get shaken up by near misses but the thought of one of those things really freaaks me. Don't let it stop you riding, if you get a bit edgy, just take things easy for a bit.

[-Ralph-]

Fish tail, Tankslapper, Half a highside? Meh. Who cares, the bike behaved like a fish in a panic and you stayed on it, and kept it on the road, well done. Lets call it a tankslapper for the sake of argument.

Sounds like you did very little about it other than minimal input to keep it heading in the right direction, and the bike returned to stability on it's own. You did exactly the right thing, which says to me you have a pretty natural instinct for bikes.

If it's so bad that it's getting progressively worse and the bars start bouncing off the lock stops, you're going to crash. If it's not that bad and you leave the bike to it's own devices it'll recover on it's own. Either way what is going to happen is going to happen, you can't control it.

Up to the point where a bike becomes so unstable that a crash becomes inevitable, the bike wants to reach equilibrium and run straight, so the best advice for the kind of "tankslapper" you had is don't try to take control and fight with the bike. Take a metaphorical "hands-off" bars, seat and pegs. Be a passenger and let it sort itself out underneath you, then take control again once the drama is over. Try and control it and you'll crash.

Riding a dirt bike on mud is the best way to learn. Check out this little kid, controlling a road bike in a "tankslapper" will feel completely natural to him when he's older. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARp0GUV4_sg. Something on his bike is probably completely knackered or loose, but he has no fear so he doesn't try to fight it, he just accepts that is what the bike does sometimes and lets it wobble underneath him.

[yorkie_chris]

Fish tail, Tankslapper, Half a highside? Meh. Who cares,

Me.

Tankslapper; something is awry with your bike. You have a serious issue with rear shock and/or general chassis setup. Think stock TLS... Think about doing some setup work or fitting a damper if it's otherwise sweet.

Fishtail/highside; you opened the throttle or some crap on the road caused it. Not much you can do about this.

[-Ralph-]

Me.

Tankslapper; something is awry with your bike. You have a serious issue with rear shock and/or general chassis setup. Think stock TLS... Think about doing some setup work or fitting a damper if it's otherwise sweet.

Fishtail/highside; you opened the throttle or some crap on the road caused it. Not much you can do about this.

I realise the difference, but my point is that MBK is calling it a tankslapper, if she used the wrong terminology for it does that matter? I don't see the point in people arguing with her about whether it was actually technically a tankslapper or not.

She's told us she hit a diesel patch, and how the bike reacted, so we all know what happened, regardless of what terminology she used to describe it.

If she'd told us she was going fast down a on a bumpy bit of road and suddenly the bike wagged it's head violently in a true tankslapper, then we might be telling her to get her bike looked at, but that's not the case here.

[yorkie_chris]

Because newbies who don't know the difference will read this and it will reduce their confidence if they think the bike is prone to shaking its head without serious prodding

[Milky Bar Kid]

Erm, I think Diesel on a wet road is probably a fair bit of prodding. Even if I had hit that in the car I would have lost control.

[-Ralph-]

Erm, I think Diesel on a wet road is probably a fair bit of prodding. Even if I had hit that in the car I would have lost control.

By prodding, YC means provocation by the rider.

What happened to you was a highside, not a tankslapper, you were leant over in a bend, your rear wheel lost traction on the diesel, putting your bike into a rear wheel out slide, like you see in flat track racing, with your bars turned to the outside of the slide. Then your rear wheel regains grip and kicks back in the way, leaving your bike upright and heading for the outside of the bend, but your bars are still turned to the outside of the bend. They turn further, hit the stops and bounce back round the other way and start oscillating, which looks similar, feels similar, and many riders mistake it for a tankslapper.

Wikipedia Definition
A highsider, highside, or high side is a type of bike motion which is caused by a rear wheel gaining traction when it is not facing in the direction of travel, usually after slipping sideways in a curve.[7] This can occur under heavy braking, acceleration, a varying road surface, or suspension activation, especially due to interaction with the drivetrain.[38] It can take the form of a single slip-then-flip or a series of violent oscillations

A tankslapper is oscillation of the bars around the headstock, and it usually occurs at speed or under power (hence provocation by the rider) and whilst the bike is upright. It's essentially a form of speed wobble, the same as you might get with the small wheels of a shopping trolley if you run across a car park with it.

But it doesn't really matter, we know what you meant.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Yep, nail on the head with that there Ralph.

[simesb]

What happened to you was a highside, not a tankslapper

Being pedantic, was it not an attempted highside, as MBK didn't actually leave the bike on the high side?

[-Ralph-]

Being pedantic, was it not an attempted highside, as MBK didn't actually leave the bike on the high side?

Wikipedia Definition
... It can take the form of a single slip-then-flip or a series of violent oscillations


There is your answer right there, the name leads you to thinking only about slip-then-flip

[yorkie_chris]

It was a highside she just forgot to fall off :)

[simesb]

There is your answer right there, the name leads you to thinking only about slip-then-flip

If you want to quote Wikipeadia

A highsider or highside is a type of motorcycle accident which is caused by a rear wheel gaining traction when it is not facing in the direction of travel.

So no accident, just nearly one (too close for her liking I'm sure).

[yorkie_chris]

Last time that happened to me I nearly had an accident in 2 ways then

[-Ralph-]

If you want to quote Wikipeadia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipeadia
A highsider or highside is a type of motorcycle accident which is caused by a rear wheel gaining traction when it is not facing in the direction of travel.
So no accident, just nearly one (too close for her liking I'm sure).

The difference between my Wiki quote and yours, was that I chose one that I was happy with the accuracy of.

Wikipedia Definition
A highsider, highside, or high side is a type of bike motion which is caused by a rear wheel gaining traction when it is not facing in the direction of travel, usually after slipping sideways in a curve.[7] This can occur under heavy braking, acceleration, a varying road surface, or suspension activation, especially due to interaction with the drivetrain.[38] It can take the form of a single slip-then-flip or a series of violent oscillations

Mine doesn't mention anything about a bike accident, it calls it a "type of bike motion".

so you saved it, did it look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A&NR=1 whoo hoo, go girl

This didn't result in an accident, but it was without doubt a highside.

[RayRay]

i was doing wheelspins in the snow on my dt down my road... that wasn't a tank slapper, it was downright stupid. funny though :)

[simesb]

The difference between my Wiki quote and yours, was that I chose one that I was happy with the accuracy of

Thought as much, unfortunately being happy with it does not make it true (actually your quote is true, just not all the story). Try some other (http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2192) places, they all say the same as the full wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider)entry.

This didn't result in an accident, but it was without doubt a highside.

That is fair enough, but at not point did MBK mention being thrown out of the seat. An uncontrolled slide is scary enough on a bike, but I don't think you can call it a high side.

[Milky Bar Kid]

Thought as much, unfortunately being happy with it does not make it true (actually your quote is true, just not all the story). Try some other (http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2192) places, they all say the same as the full wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider)entry.



That is fair enough, but at not point did MBK mention being thrown out of the seat. An uncontrolled slide is scary enough on a bike, but I don't think you can call it a high side.


It was more than an "uncontrolled" slide! But anyway, do we really need to argue over the "name" of what happened?

[-Ralph-]

It's not the uncontrolled slide that made her think it was a tankslapper, it was more than just a slide and recovery, it caused an violent oscillation. The tyre re-gripped and flipped the bike back into the upright position, as opposed to a lowside where the opposite happens and the bike ends up on it's side. Just 'cos that flip back upright wasn't violent enough to throw the rider, it doesn't change the dynamics of what happened to the bike.

I don't think you can call it a high side.

I do, c'est la vie :smt102

It's a common enough occurrence in motorcycling, if it's not a highside because the rider didn't get thrown, find me another name for it.

[simesb]

It's a common enough occurrence in motorcycling, if it's not a highside, find me another name for it.

Front running wide on diesel - understeer?
Back coming round on diesel - snap oversteer?
Struggling to control the bike while correcting - getting crossed up?

Not everything has a name.

If I said I had "highsided today", most people would think that I came off. If I said I "nearly highsided today" everybody would think I'd stayed on.

[-Ralph-]

If I said I had "highsided today", most people would think that I came off. If I said I "nearly highsided today" everybody would think I'd stayed on.

Well done for hanging on! My crash started as a rear wheel slide then into a tank slapper that got worse and threw me off... If only I had your skills!

And "most people" would have called it a tankslapper...

[yorkie_chris]

It was more than an "uncontrolled" slide! But anyway, do we really need to argue over the "name" of what happened?

It can't have been that uncontrolled since you didn't crash :)

Course we do :smt040

[yorkie_chris]

http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40391&p=533253

Crunchy. you can see what happens with the rear stepping out in a bit more detail there, this time though it looks like him hitting full lock is what causes the flip rather than the rear tyre regaining grip.

[-Ralph-]

http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40391&p=533253

Crunchy. you can see what happens with the rear stepping out in a bit more detail there, this time though it looks like him hitting full lock is what causes the flip rather than the rear tyre regaining grip.

It a combination of both in a classic over the bars highside, the tyre re-gripping and the bike flipping back upright gives the riders ar$e the upward momentum it needs to leave the seat, then the bars hitting the stop slows down the front of the bike, throwing the rider forwards. The you tube clip that 2hys posted shows it very nicely.

In the case where the rider doesn't get thrown, the slide is just not big and fast enough, and the re-grip not violent enough, to create the initial momentum. The SV rear shock probably helps with this too as the force on the tyre is not transmitted into the seat the same as it would do on a race replica (maybe the size, weight and inertia of MBK's ar$e had something to do with it too ;) ).

[-Ralph-]

so you saved it, did it look like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fa0GmdSN4A&NR=1 whoo hoo, go girl

The other interesting thing about this clip, is watch how the bike recovers equilibrium and starts to run straight again, completely on it's own, whilst the rider is still trying to turn himself from Superman back into Clark Kent. It shows in video what I was saying earlier about not trying to control the bike, but let it recover of it's own accord.

[ArtyLady]

It was a highside she just forgot to fall off :)

I've done that - very scary - like MBK I miraculously rode through mine - the guy behind told me what had happened - I wouldn't have had a clue what it was, it happened so quickly! :o :mrgreen:

[-Ralph-]

I've done that - very scary - like MBK I miraculously rode through mine - the guy behind told me what had happened - I wouldn't have had a clue what it was, it happened so quickly! :o :mrgreen:

Done it twice on the SV. Last time I did it on the SV I opened the throttle a bit too hard and too early coming out of a slow tight bend, so there wouldn't be much more than a dented pride and some dents on the bike if I had come off, but it was just enough to get my ar$e out of the seat, and throw my balls forwards onto the tank! OUCHO!

The first time was on an SV Ecosse rideout at about 70mph, no warning, probably diesel the same as MBK, well out of the seat, legs everywhere, but somehow managed to keep it upright. Guy in front nearly crashed himself 'cos he was so transfixed on his mirror watching me, and he said afterwards he thought I was coming off for sure. Whilst I **** myself at the time, it was on the solo ride home hours later that it hit me, arrived home white and shaking, and then I couldn't stop thinking about it for a week.

[ophic]

http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40391&p=533253

Crunchy. you can see what happens with the rear stepping out in a bit more detail there, this time though it looks like him hitting full lock is what causes the flip rather than the rear tyre regaining grip.
How to surf on an SV:
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s81/ofcounsel/Highside%20at%20Chuckwalla/Apr-04-2010-SoCalTrackdaysTurn09-35.jpg
That has to be the most awesome action shot of an SV ever!

[yorkie_chris]

Guy over here did same and parked it on his head... caught on camera too.

[Milky Bar Kid]

It can't have been that uncontrolled since you didn't crash :)

Course we do :smt040

LOL! Chris, there was certainly NOTHING controlled about any of that!!

[Bri w]

Nice going MBK!

Had plenty of wobbles and twitches down the years, and the odd mega slide. Only one proper tankslapper tho'. I got out of it by opening the throttle, and getting the weight off the front of the bike. Once I got over the brown trouser moment, and got the bike home I took the cheap hanblebar fairing off that I'd fitted to it that had upset the balance and fitted new fork springs and oil.

For the most part, in a (rear wheel) skid/slide the rear wheel doesn't have traction, in a tankslapper it does.

[simesb]

Crunchy. you can see what happens with the rear stepping out in a bit more detail there, this time though it looks like him hitting full lock is what causes the flip rather than the rear tyre regaining grip.

Kudos to the photographer - that's a fabulous sequence of shots.