View Full Version : Hydraulic Brake Switch not working
Hi all,
I've fitted rearsets to the GSXR and a brake light switch. Trouble is it won't work! I've tried two switches for I'm fairly confident the problem lies with me. I've bled the system and the pedal is firm, no more air coming through the nipple.
Where I soldered the switch into the existing wiring I've shorted across it and brake light is fine so it's definately from that point down.
I've fitted braided lines a few times before and never had any problems bleeding brakes so I don't think it's wholly me? Bike is an 08 GSXR 600 so I doubt there's much wrong with the brake system either.
Any ideas?
yorkie_chris
06-04-10, 04:52 PM
Try the switch wires the other way around?
Try the switch wires the other way around?
Possibly although I don't think it matters does it? Would it be worth cable tieing the brake pedal down just in case there is air in the system or doesn't it work in the same way as the front brake?
fastdruid
06-04-10, 06:36 PM
Try the switch wires the other way around?
I'm pretty sure it makes no difference.
You could just have a dud switch :(
Druid
I'm pretty sure it makes no difference.
You could just have a dud switch :(
Druid
I thought that so I had another delivered and it's the same...hmmmmm.
yorkie_chris
06-04-10, 06:52 PM
Possibly although I don't think it matters does it? Would it be worth cable tieing the brake pedal down just in case there is air in the system or doesn't it work in the same way as the front brake?
If it's getting pressure it should activate the switch.
Regarding the wires, dunno. Might affect it, depends on how the switch works, I tihnk it is some semiconductor rather than a simple plunger and contact arrangement.
fastdruid
06-04-10, 10:23 PM
Is there maybe a 'bubble' of air just in the banjo stopping it from working?
Druid
barwel1992
07-04-10, 12:44 AM
^ to get rid of that, take the bike out for a spin and use the rear brake as much as possible, should clear the air (rumble speed bumps are good for this as well )
then re-bleed the system had no problems what so ever with my rear brake banjo
rictus01
07-04-10, 01:00 AM
^ to get rid of that, take the bike out for a spin and use the rear brake as much as possible, should clear the air (rumble speed bumps are good for this as well )
then re-bleed the system had no problems what so ever with my rear brake banjo
Hmmmm, a braking system with a known issue, go out and find some bumpy roads...... remind me not to use that golden nugget of information.
On a more practical note, unbolt the caliper from the carrier and hold it above the rest and bleed it, pressure switches are none user serviceable so you can't really do anything with them however you can test them on the front circuit by replacing a normal banjo and meter the switch, generally it makes no difference which way the wirers go as it's a simple connected circuit.
Cheers Mark.
barwel1992
07-04-10, 01:07 AM
if the brake works then i dont see the problem, as he says the leaver is hard if there is a small amount of air stuck in the banjo then its not going to have a huge affect on braking power ..... and its not like hes riding it around with out functioning front brakes (i hope)
rictus01
07-04-10, 01:14 AM
On the presumption your advise was "vibration will help", then a good shake of the system or tap with a spanner will do the same, you don't go to play on the roads with a known defect, and especially one with the brakes, I've no idea if you're qualified to say what is and isn't safe or if the OP is, but to advise someone else to do it is irresponsible at best, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was illegal as well.
Cheers Mark.
yorkie_chris
07-04-10, 08:04 AM
if the brake works then i dont see the problem, as he says the leaver is hard if there is a small amount of air stuck in the banjo then its not going to have a huge affect on braking power ..... and its not like hes riding it around with out functioning front brakes (i hope)
If there's an air bubble in it, how is the lever hard?
ThEGr33k
07-04-10, 08:21 AM
If there's an air bubble in it, how is the lever hard?
I know how, Pull it really hard. It compresses the air and makes it feel like its got no air in it.
Infact that might help with the switch... Try pulling it REALLY hard :p
Cheers for the advice, I won't be able to work on it until tomorrow night now but I'll give the system a tap with a spanner, if that fails I'll raise the caliper and re-bleed.
Rear brake does it's job, it's never been as good as my SV rear brake and has been slightly 'spongy' from brand new, wonder whether this could have anything to do with it?
Failing that anyone near Wiltshire willing to take a look? Bloody annoying as it's not exactly complicated!!!
barwel1992
07-04-10, 11:18 AM
Hi all,
I've fitted rearsets to the GSXR and a brake light switch. Trouble is it won't work! I've tried two switches for I'm fairly confident the problem lies with me. I've bled the system and the pedal is firm, no more air coming through the nipple.
Where I soldered the switch into the existing wiring I've shorted across it and brake light is fine so it's definately from that point down.
I've fitted braided lines a few times before and never had any problems bleeding brakes so I don't think it's wholly me? Bike is an 08 GSXR 600 so I doubt there's much wrong with the brake system either.
Any ideas?
If there's an air bubble in it, how is the lever hard?
i was mearly going by what the op sead ..
pop a multimeter across the terminals and test it that way, check for continuity (zero resistance) when the pedal is pressed.
...also, check that the banjo didnt have some kind of plastic plug/cover that needed to be removed, the braking equivalent of leaving your lense cap on ;-)
pop a multimeter across the terminals and test it that way, check for continuity (zero resistance) when the pedal is pressed.
...also, check that the banjo didnt have some kind of plastic plug/cover that needed to be removed, the braking equivalent of leaving your lense cap on ;-)
That's the first thing I did, no continuity across the terminals and no kind of cover that I can see.
That's the first thing I did, no continuity across the terminals and no kind of cover that I can see.
well, the multimeter wont lie, if it aint switching it aint switching.
If everything is bled correctly then the switch is duff.
yorkie_chris
07-04-10, 08:30 PM
Only explanation I can think of.
Regardless of bleeding, if you've got pressure, you've got pressure...
Only explanation I can think of.
Regardless of bleeding, if you've got pressure, you've got pressure...
its possible though that an air pocket could reduce the amount of pressure acting on the switch just enough for it not to work.
yorkie_chris
07-04-10, 08:34 PM
Pressure acts uniformly, you pushing the pedal probably makes a few hundred psi... that is one strong air bubble!
Pressure acts uniformly, you pushing the pedal probably makes a few hundred psi... that is one strong air bubble!
yeah I guess, seems a little unusual for two switches to be dodgy, not unheard of though.
ThEGr33k
07-04-10, 10:36 PM
Im sure I have read something about pressure switches being a bit... crappy somewhere else you know. Unfortunatly I cant remember seeing the outcome :(
Out of interest, can you not simply get a switch like normal people? :p
barwel1992
07-04-10, 10:38 PM
what brand switch are u using ? i used a goodridge one and it worked fine
I'm using a HEL one. I can't use a normal switch as I've got race rearsets on it so there isn't anywhere for the spring to attach without me modifying the pedal.
If I can't get it to work tonight I'll give HEL a ring directly and see fi they have any ideas.
Right, I'm getting really hacked off now! Have wacked the system with a spanner whilst pumping the lever to try and get rid of any air, have elevated the caliper above the master cylinder and it's still the same!
I've taken a picture to make 100% I've fitted it correctly:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/bikerandy/IMG_2406.jpg
Does this all look OK? Copper washer above and below the bolt? Any other ideas, may order another one from another company and see if that works.
Fitted perfectly, I think you have a duff switch. Where was it from?
did you take off the protective sheath.....
only joking!!!
:0) taxi 4 ... 1
Fitted perfectly, I think you have a duff switch. Where was it from?
It was from a HEL supplier in Ireland, he's a trader over on Gixerjunkies.
did you take off the protective sheath.....
only joking!!!
:0) taxi 4 ... 1
Sod..you had me going for a split second.
I'm going to phone HEL if I get a chance tomorrow see if they have any ideas.:confused:
ThEGr33k
12-04-10, 07:38 AM
I'm going to phone HEL if I get a chance tomorrow see if they have any ideas.:confused:
Keep us upto date!!!
Sod..you had me going for a split second.
I already asked you that one a few pages ago :-), you're getting paranoid.
Just to check though, we discussed checking for continuity across the terminals earlier. Did you check for this with the pedal pressed and without? These switches are available either 'normally open' or 'normally closed'. Make sure the switch isnt connected to the loom on the bike when you test with the meter.
I think you've already answered this question in an earlier post, but have you tried shorting out the two wires from the switch while installed? I think you said you shorted them during install and it worked, try it again. Maybe you blew a fuse or something when this happened?
If the lights go on, there is only one thing left un-tested in the circuit...the switch! If there is definately no sign of an air lock then by process of elimination it must be the switch. I know someone said something along the lines of "pressure is universal", but we use hydraulic oils because they are much better at transferring pressure than air. If air is in the hydraulic circuit, it could well be enough to stop it working.
Even if the brakes are working 100% there is no guarentee that the switch isn't airlocked.
The only, rather wastefull way, i can think of to eliminate the airlock question is to assemble the system in a bucket of break fluid...Not very good for the old hands either...or the switch for that matter...
If there is a question over whether or not the switch is polarity concious, just swap the wires round. 2 minute job to be 100% sure.
RE: hitting things with spanners for airlocks. Reminds me of an old fitter I used to work with, "If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's electrical".:p
Cheers for the advice Philbo (and everyone else). Phoned HEL yesterday and they said they did have a problem with a batch of switches so I may well have been sent two duff switches. HEL HQ are going to send me a known working switch ASAP so lets see if that works...I bloody hope so :)
Paul the 6th
13-05-10, 08:05 AM
I've had the exact same problem with the pressure switch fitted to my brembo master cylinder and from the same supplier HEL n.i.
Luckypants pointed it out to me on the isle of man "You're slowing down very quickly but your brake light is only coming on at the last second"... we stood around for five mins squeezing the brake lever and noticed the brake light was coming on at the last 20-40% of lever travel... Not good.
Should I give HEL n.i. or HEL direct a call?
ThEGr33k
13-05-10, 08:15 AM
Cant you use a switch on the brembo master? Which sort is it, radial or same old school as mine?
Paul the 6th
13-05-10, 08:24 AM
Old school afaik? hydraulic pressure switch which screws through the banjos at the top of the brake lines...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/rsyodi/wicked750/23ba8a1e.jpg
yorkie_chris
13-05-10, 08:26 AM
That is radial
Paul the 6th
13-05-10, 08:27 AM
radial afaik
yorkie_chris
13-05-10, 08:28 AM
Purdy 8)
Paul the 6th
13-05-10, 08:28 AM
whats the difference between radial and non-radial m/c? I understand about radially mounted calipers but the mc?
yorkie_chris
13-05-10, 08:32 AM
Just direction cylinder is pointing.... radial one points forwards like your... axial mount points outward like your original one.
No difference, difference is in quality of master, piston size and leverage ratio.
Paul the 6th
13-05-10, 08:39 AM
nice :) certainly lots more feel than stock.. when I can afford it I'll prolly go mental and look for some super duper calipers but they're good for now :)
yorkie_chris
13-05-10, 08:42 AM
I would be looking to revalve forks before anything like that
ThEGr33k
13-05-10, 10:43 AM
Radial;
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-accessories/2008/brembo-radial-clutch-cylinder.jpg
Normal like mine;
http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/12146/2163135140076697328S600x600Q85.jpg
Which one is yours? If its the later you can get a normal switch which will work much much better, or actually work ha ha.
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