View Full Version : Volcanic ash
Nobbylad
16-04-10, 09:51 AM
Has meant my eldest son has still not returned from skiing in Whistler.
He got to Amsterdam yesterday afternoon and then had to go to a hotel in Rotterdam, where it's looking like he'll be until tomorrow sometime.
Last night his Facebook wall read along the lines of "Stuck overnight in Amsterdam...looks like I'll be doin' a bit of window shopping".
He's 14 :rolleyes:
Nobbylad
16-04-10, 09:56 AM
I was quite proud in a kind of 'That's ma boy' kind of way and then realised I'm going to Amsterdam with him in May anyway for his football team's tournament and now I'm thinking I need to keep more of an eye on him!
Electro
16-04-10, 10:02 AM
Its when he tells you the names of some of the girls in the windows you need to worry lol.
plowsie
16-04-10, 10:06 AM
Make sure he has no cake :lol:
Littlepeahead
16-04-10, 11:04 AM
Its when he tells you the names of some of the girls in the windows you need to worry lol.
Dangerous to assume they are girls! For some it is questionable.
Owenski
16-04-10, 11:43 AM
good lad!
Bluefish
16-04-10, 05:05 PM
Haha, he will be able to show you the best places to go/girls that go.
carternd
16-04-10, 06:43 PM
As long as it's only window shopping all is well.
my family and me are stuck in tenerife. Life is hell :)
Nobbylad
16-04-10, 08:54 PM
My lad is stuck in Rotterdam until at least tomorrow afternoon...I think the novelty is wearing off :(
They only have their hand luggage with them, so he's just washed his socks and boxies in the sink....the lad he's sharing with said he couldn't be ar$ed....my lad says the room is minging lol!
I have two friends stuck overseas, one in vegas (now LA) the other in hong kong
the latest updates are:-
LA friend, earliest flight back is 26th April
HK friend, earliest flight back is 11th May!! He's now looking at a 7 day rail journey through China/Russia, to Europe then catch Orient Express to Northern Europe. Not sure what Visas he needs to get through Russia...
All in all, horrendous!
Milky Bar Kid
19-04-10, 08:24 AM
Got a pal stuck in tenerife, definately no flights til 29th and one of my colleagues hs been stuck in Brussels and has had to get a ferry back! Nightmare!
Owenski
19-04-10, 08:51 AM
Out of interest, those who are standed and need to find an alternative route home (like your HK friend Keith) do they pay for the alternative them selves or is it covered by insurance?
Also for the ones stuck in places like LA, do they pay for accomodation or do the airline. Same for the foods etc, who pays for all this stuff?
plowsie
19-04-10, 08:59 AM
Don't you think Iceland are going to be down on the popularity list right now...
First the banking savings they buggered up for quite a few people, now destroying worldwide airspace :lol:
Out of interest, those who are standed and need to find an alternative route home (like your HK friend Keith) do they pay for the alternative them selves or is it covered by insurance?
Most insurance won't cover you, but some may. if you have insurance, you need to check the policy wording.
Also for the ones stuck in places like LA, do they pay for accomodation or do the airline. Same for the foods etc, who pays for all this stuff?
depends if it is an EU carrier or not. If it is, then they should have food and board until the carrier can get them to their original destination (by whatever method). Don't know the rules for US airlines/other non-EU
Out of interest, those who are standed and need to find an alternative route home (like your HK friend Keith) do they pay for the alternative them selves or is it covered by insurance?
Also for the ones stuck in places like LA, do they pay for accomodation or do the airline. Same for the foods etc, who pays for all this stuff?
oddly friends in LA are having hotels and meals paid for by BA, but HK friend has been told no chance. Whether its the fact one is a business trip (HK) and the other is a holiday I don't know but there seems to be conflicting reports everywhere...
dizzyblonde
19-04-10, 09:19 AM
the YCs are stuck in Spain, meh not much to complain about eh?
Unfortunately Chris has final year project around his ears, and I know he was set to be rather busy on his return, be even more now won't he!
dizzyblonde
19-04-10, 09:20 AM
Have just been in the garden and found a pack of fish fingers, a tub of ice cream, a family pack of burgers and a bag of frozen chips. I suspect it's the fallout from Iceland.
Bahhhh dahhh dummmm tshhhhh!!!
metalangel
19-04-10, 09:42 AM
A rather smug article on "A World Without Planes" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8626000/8626927.stm) here. Damn greeny weird beards.
metalmonkey
19-04-10, 09:43 AM
Got a pal stuck in tenerife, definately no flights til 29th and one of my colleagues hs been stuck in Brussels and has had to get a ferry back! Nightmare!
My parents are in Tenerife as well not sure when or how they will be getting home, they were on a short break as my dad isn't best amused as he was meant to work today and a lot of work to get done. It seems they are not covered either:( On the up side he making the best of a extend hoilday it will do him so good!
Also MOTO GP is off:mad: now that just makes me mad.
The Guru
19-04-10, 11:16 AM
Have just been in the garden and found a pack of fish fingers, a tub of ice cream, a family pack of burgers and a bag of frozen chips. I suspect it's the fallout from Iceland.
Bahhhh dahhh dummmm tshhhhh!!!
Iceland haven't seen this much powder since Kerry Katona was doing their adverts. :rolleyes:
Apparently "Airline crisis has greater economic impact than 9-11" - suppose that would depend which country you were sitting in.
Apparently "Airline crisis has greater economic impact than 9-11" - suppose that would depend which country you were sitting in.
bit of an obvious statement really, after 9/11 planes could still fly just beefed up security was required. problem now is they literally cant go anywhere.
plowsie
19-04-10, 12:26 PM
Economically, though Keith?
Economically, though Keith?
yes...i stand by my statement! :)
to me it would be obvious, maybe im missing a point, but of course 9/11 cost a lot of lost revenue, increases in overheads, but this is far worse (economically)
plowsie
19-04-10, 12:48 PM
Dow jones shut for 5 days because of 9/11, some 684 points drop when it re-opened. I think we are pretty far off something like that just yet. However, I can see you point, and if things don't start to look up sometime soon, we could get close.
ah i thought the post was in relation to the airline industry economically not economy as a whole
fizzwheel
19-04-10, 12:55 PM
Chap I work with is in the USA and stuck and cannot get back.
His flight took off and during the flight they shut UK airspace so his plane turned around and diverted to Chicago, which is now where he is stuck. Not looking good for him getting back for a while yet...
plowsie
19-04-10, 12:55 PM
ah i thought the post was in relation to the airline industry economically not economy as a whole
Good point. Which one of us is wrong?
My kids are stuck in Barbados instead of returning to school today.
News had report of a family paying €2,500 for taxi from Barcelona to Calais.
Airlines are complaining that the ash does not affect the planes as bad as it's claimed.
Owenski
19-04-10, 01:04 PM
Tell that to the BA flight or the KLM flight which keep coming up in news reports.
Airlines are complaining that the ash does not affect the planes as bad as it's claimed.
this is what i have heard/read too. the biggest danger is when flying directly over a "spewing" volcano and into its ash cloud, not necessarily the dust that is over us largely.
that said i'd rather wait and not take a chance given the option! :D
Tell that to the BA flight or the KLM flight which keep coming up in news reports.
You mean the one that restarted the engines and was absolutely fine? :roll:
As Keith says I'm sure there's a difference between flying right over the volcano & flying, what, a thousand miles from it :smt102
You mean the one that restarted the engines and was absolutely fine? :roll:
Ģ80m worth of new engines is not fine.
Owenski
19-04-10, 01:41 PM
lol I didnt actually know about the 80million damage, just wiki'd it and sure enough. 80m in damage to its 4 engines. The plane itsself is still in service with KLM.
Mr T was right... flying is for fools.
Both planes needed 4 new engines and other replacement parts. Which is not good. Aside from the actually monetary damage, can you imagine being in a plane when the pilot tells you that all 4 engines have failed? Restart or not, I don't consider that fine.
They did unknowingly fly through the plume, which is not what we are talking about here.
my guess will be not long now...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100419/tuk-ba-jumbo-completes-atlantic-test-fli-dba1618.html
jamesterror
19-04-10, 02:39 PM
I was in Meribel, South France snowboarding last week..
We got a coach back from the Meribel to Calais, then to Gatwick and were left there to get back. I'm really impressed how fast our travel company (Skiworld - a letter of thanks will be written to them) acted in ensuring we were back safe and sound.
Thursday night they told us a contingency plan was being put in place in case we couldn't get home, 22 hours of travelling was worth it being home rather than stuck like some people are.
cornflakes
19-04-10, 02:48 PM
i'm due to fly into london on the 3rd of may! god damn volcano better **** off by then! :(
3 of our teachers are stuck in New York with 30 13 - 15 year olds.
Don't know which is worse really, being stuck there with that lot, probably getting bored/homesick/stircrazy or actually coming back to school and teaching them!
_Stretchie_
19-04-10, 03:14 PM
Has meant my eldest son has still not returned from skiing in Whistler.
He got to Amsterdam yesterday afternoon and then had to go to a hotel in Rotterdam, where it's looking like he'll be until tomorrow sometime.
Last night his Facebook wall read along the lines of "Stuck overnight in Amsterdam...looks like I'll be doin' a bit of window shopping".
He's 14 :rolleyes:
Ha haa haaaaa
Dangerous to assume they are girls! For some it is questionable.
Ooop. :smt103
Rich and I have just been for a run and it was really misty. Then we saw a wave of what looked like fine mist going across the lake near us. When I got closer the smell was horrid and my eyes started to sting. Was weird - you couldn't see the top of the high rise flats. Bit spooky really.
Today I saw...
An aeroplane* :shock:
was a small jet at low altitude
*My spellchecker says I've spelt it wrong giving me the choices hydroplane, monoplane aerospace or cropland wtf :???:
Owenski
19-04-10, 08:24 PM
cropland lol, i love spell check.
keith_d
19-04-10, 09:38 PM
Well, I was due to fly out to Holland tomorrow (tues) but even if they open Heathrow in the morning I doubt the shorthaul flights will be getting slots. I looked at taking the bike over instead but I can't find a space for it on the ferries. So it looks like two days of crappy conference calls instead. Poo!
I think the government has been spectacularly inept over all this. No leadership, no testing of the scientific evidence, I think the airlines are right to complain. Seems nobody considered the impact on people stranded around the world, we can hardly send the Ark Royal to New York to rescue the teachers and schoolchildren Messie refers to:rolleyes:
we can hardly send the Ark Royal to New York to rescue the teachers and schoolchildren Messie refers to:rolleyes:
Exactly, have they even considered sending some Hercules or other turbo prop planes - are they affected ???
I think the government has been spectacularly inept over all this.
Did you expect better? :roll:
Exactly, have they even considered sending some Hercules or other turbo prop planes - are they affected ???
Did you expect better? :roll:
I would say all engines that use a compressor would be affected thus turboprop planes would be.
Turboprop engines are similar to a turbofan engine found on most airplanes, diffrence being it has no large fan making the core engine smaller, the output shaft going though a gearbox and into the propeller.
There is more to it but thats the simple exp.
Owenski
20-04-10, 08:23 AM
Will they wont they... seems no ones quite sure if flights are going or not.
punyXpress
20-04-10, 11:56 AM
Solution:
Knit a double-G bra cup for each engine using air filter material.
Go on your way rejoicing.
Simples.
yorkie_chris
20-04-10, 03:25 PM
Weīre still stuck in spain. Got a replacement flight booked for Thursday, if that doesnīt happen as is looking possible then it looks like 24 hours or mores worth of train journeys to get back to Calais.
At least MYC is getting a tour of Europe and the beers cheap :smt082
Exactly, have they even considered sending some Hercules or other turbo prop planes - are they affected ???
I thought this crap was at some level or another carried by the jet stream... no reason a heavy jet canīt fly under it except for fuel cost.
maviczap
20-04-10, 03:35 PM
Exactly, have they even considered sending some Hercules or other turbo prop planes - are they affected ???
Did you expect better? :roll:
All the c130's are probably out in Afganistan, we could use the Royal flight couldn't we.:p
We once had a merchant navy that we could use in times of crisis, but all that really remains of that is plying between Dover & Calais.:???:
All the commercial ships that were used in the Falklands are long gone, the vast majority of the stranded tourists could have been transported back on the QE2 and Canberra in comfort.
But thanks to shareholder greed P&O and Cunard exist in name only, and are owned by overseas interests.:smt018
All British airports open as of 10 tonight
phew. and relax...
All British airports open as of 10 tonight
Not because it is any more safe than it was (don't know how unsafe it was before cos I'm not an expert), but because the BA CEO held the government to ransom.
MR UKI (1)
20-04-10, 08:57 PM
First plane has landed at Heathrow. BA it appears have ganged up on the authorities. For the last couple of hours several BA planes have been holding over Ireland, Birmingham and Cornwall refusing to land anywhere but Heathrow :D
personally i think its been tough for all concerned. lack of data, lack of knowledge of flying through the ash (as opposed to flying directly in the cloud) leaves it as being either a 1 or a 0 in the win column. the plane either lands fine, or it dont and if it dont then that doesnt bear thinking about
Graciepants
21-04-10, 07:02 AM
anybody wanna get me out of cyprus pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
ıve been here 3 weeks now and there ıs no end ın sıght!!
at least ıts unusually hot and ıts beıng 30c here atm!
plowsie
21-04-10, 09:05 AM
How weird is your keyboard...
ALWAYS DOT YOUR I's.
hindle8907
21-04-10, 05:41 PM
i wish i was stuck abroad . (sorry to those who are really stuck lol)
Biker Biggles
21-04-10, 06:58 PM
anybody wanna get me out of cyprus pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
ıve been here 3 weeks now and there ıs no end ın sıght!!
at least ıts unusually hot and ıts beıng 30c here atm!
Ill swap with you.One of the best places to be stuck .
I would say all engines that use a compressor would be affected thus turboprop planes would be.
Turboprop engines are similar to a turbofan engine found on most airplanes, diffrence being it has no large fan making the core engine smaller, the output shaft going though a gearbox and into the propeller.
There is more to it but thats the simple exp.
Asides from the engine failure that may occur a far more likely failure is from the Pitot tube, which effects pilot instruments such as airspeed...
A clogged Pitot tube from ash, instant instrument failure, plane looses airspeed, plane crashes.. not rocket science.
Oh but hey lets congratulate BA for pushing the CAA into making safety decisions based purely on commercial reasoning.:rolleyes:
i wish i was stuck abroad . (sorry to those who are really stuck lol)
Yeah it's tough :D:D:D
just booked the earliest flight we could get. 30th April.
:sunny::smt040:smt040:smt040
yorkie_chris
22-04-10, 02:45 PM
We're back :)
There are a lot of annoyed looking people in Alicante airport
Not because it is any more safe than it was (don't know how unsafe it was before cos I'm not an expert), but because the BA CEO held the government to ransom.
I heard that guy and KLM CEO went up on planes of their own firm, shows commendable balls compared to most.
I heard that guy and KLM CEO went up on planes of their own firm, shows commendable balls compared to most.
Not in the least another publicity stunt then :rolleyes:
The fact that all airlines had to do at least one test flight in their own planes, prior to allowing passengers to go up, had nothing to do with it in the slightest I suppose:rolleyes:
yorkie_chris
22-04-10, 08:22 PM
What's wrong with a publicity stunt? It's good for their business'
So long as the decision on what safe numbers of particles are is up to the people who make the engines then surely that's the natural order of things and all is well?
About the pitot tube, IIRC there are procedures for dealing with a pitot blocked with ice, so pilots know what this problem is and how to avoid disaster in case of it.
What's wrong with a publicity stunt? It's good for their business'
So long as the decision on what safe numbers of particles are is up to the people who make the engines then surely that's the natural order of things and all is well?
The engine and airframe manufacturers have long stated ZERO: 5 days of no flights and suddenly there is a number. I don't believe that it is unsafe to fly at the moment, but this is not a number derived from testing rather a relatively small number of publicity stunt flight.
The airline industry does not normally change standards so quickly which makes one wonder if it is a commercial rather than safety decision.
yorkie_chris
22-04-10, 09:13 PM
Problem I see is there isn't much data. Where do you find information of "ZERO"? Air has dust in it, that is fact. Arid country with a wind blowing has lots of it! You saying they don't allow airplanes to fly to Dubai?
Who knows, only problem I see is normal erosion which would create no problems if service intervals are shortened a bit and then you get a handle on what the problems are.
The airline industry doesn't normally change standards so quickly, but it doesn't normally get brought to a standstill either!
Look at it from my perspective, I was stuck in Spain, the chances of catastrophic engine failure would be less than me stacking a bike into a truck if I hired one to ride home. That's betting odds if you ask me :P
What's wrong with a publicity stunt? It's good for their business'
So long as the decision on what safe numbers of particles are is up to the people who make the engines then surely that's the natural order of things and all is well?
About the pitot tube, IIRC there are procedures for dealing with a pitot blocked with ice, so pilots know what this problem is and how to avoid disaster in case of it.
Pitot tubes normally are fitted with heating elements to prevent blockage with ice, not ash particles.
I am not saying the decision isnīt made on saftey basis but it was strongly pushed by commercial reasons.
It is more then normal erosion, as fusion on turbo blades were found on earlier test flight,s so a bit more then wear and tear of an average flight.
These are very obviously very unusual circumstances, and as such no real data has been gathered to really know the full effects on aircraft of flying through zones of this quantity of ash. Therefore the decisions to ground air traffic were in my mind fully justified.
If any plane were to have crashed due to this, I am sure that the general public would have been the first ones to be up in arms about it.
metalangel
23-04-10, 06:19 AM
About the pitot tube, IIRC there are procedures for dealing with a pitot blocked with ice, so pilots know what this problem is and how to avoid disaster in case of it.
The tube is heated anyway, to prevent that (Flight Sim fans will know this as button 'H' to turn it on!)
There was also abrasive effect on the windshield from the particles of ash.
BigBaddad
23-04-10, 06:58 AM
Still it's done more to tackle immigration in 6 days than the Labour party in the past 10 years:smt043
Owenski
23-04-10, 08:26 AM
ba dumm tshhh!
i just know this muddyfunster is going to disrupt my flight to the States 4 weeks tomorrow ... :(
BanannaMan
18-05-10, 02:04 AM
As long as it's gone by August.
Can't be messing up my trip to the AR!!!
davepreston
18-05-10, 08:45 AM
am risking going to airport now for my flight,wish me luck peeps
@ Ophic - I was stuck in Tenerife at the same time you were - an extra free week in the sun was most welcome!
@ Ophic - I was stuck in Tenerife at the same time you were - an extra free week in the sun was most welcome!
I wondered if there might be other org members out there, or friends/family of org members.
I was pining for my bike
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4618353114_3907c83543.jpg
we found a bike hire place that had a nice Ducati and also a Bimota - I didn't even dare ask how much of my spending money would disappear if I'd hired one for the day!
And anyway, my blood alcohol level was wayyy to elevated to risk riding tbh :D
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