View Full Version : handing in notice
so i've been very fortunate to have been offered a nice new job with a good company with a nice salary increase. all good! so i say to my boss this morning i'm wanting to hand in my notice. he took everything really well (i was expecting a shouting match!) but then he tells me he wants me to work 4wks notice.
now this isnt an unreasonable ammount of time, however ive only been in the job 5months, i asked about getting a copy of my contract in january but it would appear they havent written me one. i'm paid weekly, and site based guys here are only on 1wk notice. i thought i'd be the same. but felt i would offer 2 wks. but he's saying 4wks unless he finds someone to replace me sooner. so basically he's covering himself so he doesnt get dropped in the sh!t.
so what do i do? do i offer my 2wks and if he doesnt accept just have to leave on bad terms? or should i stay for the 4 even though he's never bothered with a contract?
Depends on what suits you. If you've signed a copy of a contract, it's binding even if you don't have a copy (though if they refuse to furnish you with a copy promptly on request you can argue that it's null and void).
He's unlikely to do anything if you do walk, if you need to get out of there speak to your HR representive to get the lay of the land first.
Jambo
The rules are generaly these. If you are paid weelky then a weeks notice is allt hats needed. If youa re paid 4 weekly, or monthly then its a months notice, all unless specified in your contract to the contary.
Verna had to work 4 weeks notice after handing in her notice 3 days into her new job.
My contract states that i can leave immediatly and loose 2 days pay for every week i dont work!
You could always go sick ;)
ive never signed or been given a contract. ive only seen the contract that others have. problem is its a very small company, me, boss, admin woman and another office guy working on other stuff. so its the admin woman who would deal with all this. now i know legally i can just leave and theres nothing he can do, for one i dont even have a contract! but im trying to leave on good terms, but if he will only stick to 4wks notice i dont see any other option apart from just not turning up!
Is there a problem with working 4 wks? if there is ask for it in writing normally its the pay period for notice
Are your new employers keen to see you start. If you explain to them the situation it can show commitment and flexible working.
Have you explained why you thought your notice was less to the boss? maybe once he's cornered they will relent to your terms or offer a fuller explanation
do you have holiday due to you that could reduce your notice period? Depends if you are likely to mix in the same circles as your current boss, as most industries are reasonably small circles and you may bump into him again later on. You're onto a good thing in your new job unless there is some time pressure from your new position i'd hang it out for as short as possible.
Mr Speirs
20-04-10, 12:52 PM
Say that you are unable to work the 4 weeks you are being asked to and say that you can work 2 weeks notice.
If he doesn't like it then explain that you don't have a contract binding you to work any notice and 2 weeks is all that you can work.
He'll either ask you to leave or accept 2 weeks.
Never burn bridges.
If your current boss is in the same industry he could harm your reputation, and you never know if you may need a reference or even a job in the future.
Talk to him. Explain that you feel that as you are weekly paid 4 weeks notice seems excessive. Offer to meet him half way, or offer to help out if there are projects that need finishing before you go. But always try to leave on good terms.
If at the end of the day he won't budge, and you feel strongly enough about, walk out when you want. You might have some hassle getting paid if he's awkward or he may hang onto your P45 longer than he should.
Was there any mention of the notice period when you were offered your current job?
If not it sounds like you're on pretty solid ground - especially as others with written contracts are one weeks notice.
So he's unlikely to sue you for breach of contract but you might make an enemy. As has been said, many industries are like villages and this tends to be more so in Scotland. People I've pi**ed off have a nasty habit of reappearing in my life.
Assert your rights but, if possible, in a non-confrontational way.
Good luck and congrats on the new job BTW.
yeah all good points, i think i need to speak to him about it. the new employers are keen to get me started as soon as possible, they need the help! so basically i'm wanting to start the new position quick as i can.
and yes i work in construction in scotland and its not the biggest industry in the world and i really dont want to p!ss anyone off if i dont need to, but i feel 2wks notice is adequate, especially as i dont really have a contract, i think once i explain that to him he'll come round. i think he's just a bit shocked that i'm leaving.
heres hoping it stay amicable!
Legally all you have to give is 1 week's notice, no more and no less.
This talk of giving/working 4 weeks notice if paid monthly and 1 week if paid weekly is not correct. It makes no difference how often you are paid, the same notice term applies for both. Your employer cannot force you to work 4 weeks notice and he must pay you for any notice period you do work, so expect 1 week's money if that's all you work.
If you've given him 2 week's notice then he should think himself grateful you're giving him an extra 7 days in which to find a replacement. In the current economic cimate he shouldn't have much trouble, unless he's a known bad employer, in which case you're lucky you're getting out. As Bri said, don't burn bridges, but equally don't do anything that may harm your chances of starting your new job when you have agreed to.
Remember, an ex-employer cannot give a bad reference, at worse he can just refuse to give one at all but must legally confirm your start and leaving dates if asked.
-Ralph-
21-04-10, 09:10 AM
Is your new offer of employment subject to successful references? Is your current employer one of those references? As said try not to burn bridges, but if you do have to walk out, discuss it with your new employer first and ensure they will support you in the event that your current employer refuses to give a reference or tries to bad mouth you within the industry.
nah its looking like its all sorting itself out. my boss is still talking of the 4wks notice 'unless i find someone to replace you sooner'. but i spoke over with the admin woman (who deals with all the paper work) and she said she's gonna sort out everything so i am paid up and finish next friday as that is when ive said i am working until.
i'm gonna have all my work done up to a point where i can leave everything sitting for someone else to take over and see where i've left things. whether its a new surveyor, or my boss. i've also given someone his details as i know of a surveyor out of work and needing a job, i've also got someone else who said theyd be willing to come in over evenings/weekends and help him out, whilst they work there other job.
so i think i've been more than reasonable with him and i wont be leaving on bad terms.
as for new job, all is fine there. i am not waiting on references or anything like that. i found out about the job through someone from my old work (i was made redundant from there in sept) so they spoke guys at my old work about me and thats basically how i got the job!
but it looks like things are sorting themselves out and i'll be starting my new job a week on monday as planned! but i'm very happy with the new job and taking a sizeable pay increase into the bargain!
Legally all you have to give is 1 week's notice, no more and no less.
This talk of giving/working 4 weeks notice if paid monthly and 1 week if paid weekly is not correct. It makes no difference how often you are paid, the same notice term applies for both. Your employer cannot force you to work 4 weeks notice and he must pay you for any notice period you do work, so expect 1 week's money if that's all you work.
Where is the evidence of facts please Loz? My contract dictates I must give 4 weeks notice. Are you saying this is not factual? I would have no issue on leaving on a bad note from my current employers. But have already found when applying for new positions outside of the company, the 4 week notice has been an issue.
If I have proof I can submit to my current employers regardless of what my contract stipulates and the fact I signed the contract. I'd keep that one on the back shelf for a time when I might need it. There have been a lot of redundancies here and each one of them have either worked the 4 week notice or been made redundant within the week but had an additional months wage included in their redundancy package.
Where is the evidence of facts please Loz? My contract dictates I must give 4 weeks notice. Are you saying this is not factual? I would have no issue on leaving on a bad note from my current employers. But have already found when applying for new positions outside of the company, the 4 week notice has been an issue.
It's 1 week unless the contract (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Resigningorretiring/DG_175837) states otherwise. The implied term is often taken to be the same as the pay period (weekly, monthly).
Stig -
the stat minimum notice perios any employee needs to give his employer is one week. HOWEVER the contract will state in fuller terms the expected notice the employee shall give.
Only if the contract is silent will the Stat Min Notice Period take precedent if you have worked one month or more (the caveat as always A much longer notice period may however be implied if it is reasonable in all the circumstances (i.e. what is normal for a person of that seniority and in the industry such as MD's and Directors)
So you are right to state that your notice is 4 weeks as this is stated in your contract
Evidence employment law notes from Unite trainig course
Remember also that notice periods may be in referenced conditions of employment; not in the contract itself, but to another document the contract refers to.
Where is the evidence of facts please Loz? My contract dictates I must give 4 weeks notice. Are you saying this is not factual?
Sorry Si, I should have pointed out I was refering to Malk's particular case where a contract is not in force. As Simes has pointed out, if your contract states 4 weeks then you are obliged to stick to the contract.
The reference to monthly or weekly paid employees having the same notice period does hold true though.
timwilky
21-04-10, 06:24 PM
My contract says I have to give 3 months notice, I can hardly see them trying to enforce it.
However some employers are damm unreasonable. My daughter got a job offer conditional that she could start in 4 days time. Fortunately her current employer was sympathetic, agreed she could take holiday entitlement and accrued flex to increase her notice.
My contract says I have to give 3 months notice, I can hardly see them trying to enforce it.
Nobody can MAKE you work it, but it is polite. Remember that notice periods are there for the protection of both you AND the company. How long would it take to recruit/train your successor?
ethariel
21-04-10, 07:48 PM
My notice period is 3 months, so was my ex bosses, he worked 3 weeks and got given the remainder of ther 3 months notice as a 'golden handshake' in a meeting as I was changing the passwords on everything, hiding his company laptop and disabling his account (the previous day he told the client the truth about something that has been going on, no longer was he wanted near the office for the next 10 weeks LOL).
However on your case in point, did your offer letter of employment mention a period of 'Probation' (often 6months) during which you or your employer can usually terminate employment with lottle or no notice period.
Colin
-Ralph-
21-04-10, 07:58 PM
Nobody can MAKE you work it, but it is polite
When most employers make redundancies, or enforce policies to the letter regardless of the circumstances, few are worried about being polite!
I once had an employer ask me to stay a week away on business when I had only planned and packed for two days. It was before I had children and it wasn't any major bother, so I agreed. That night I went to the supermarket and spent a no more than £25 on three more shirts and underwear for the remaining three days, they rejected the expense claim saying that they do not pay for employees clothes! When I raised it with my boss, the same guy who had asked me to stay away for longer and also a company director with the power to override it, he upheld the policy. The same guy used to look at his watch if you left at 5:15 on a Friday, when you had been away from home all week and had arrived home from the airport at midnight the night before.
I was on a 3 month notice period, needless to say I told them that I would only be working a months notice as my new employer would offer the job to somebody else if they had to wait that long. Unless you are a company director (I am the next level down within a £100 million organisation) a three month notice period is a real handicap to being offered a new job. Very few can afford to "be polite" and honour it.
When most employers make redundancies, or enforce policies to the letter regardless of the circumstances, few are worried about being polite!
But you'd expect your company to honour the three months if they ended the contract?
-Ralph-
21-04-10, 08:46 PM
But you'd expect your company to honour the three months if they ended the contract?
I'd expect them to pay me for the amount of time I worked for.
I'd expect them to pay me for the amount of time I worked for.
Not what I asked. If they dismissed you, you would still expect paying for your notice period not just the day they marched you out the office.
I don't understand why some people refuse to see employment as a CONTRACT. You are providing services for reward, and notice periods protect the employee and the employer.
-Ralph-
21-04-10, 09:04 PM
Not what I asked. If they dismissed you, you would still expect paying for your notice period not just the day they marched you out the office.
I don't understand why some people refuse to see employment as a CONTRACT. You are providing services for reward, and notice periods protect the employee and the employer.
I understood exactly what you asked and I replied accordingly.
In my circumstances I would consider it reasonable to work for a month if giving notice, and I would consider it reasonable to be paid for a month if notice was given to me.
If I was given three months notice, and expected to work for three months, I would expect to be paid for three months. If I found a new job two months later I would leave and start with the new employer immediately, and expect to be paid for two.
I have never had poor performance or been negligent at work, so being marched out of the door is a very unlikely scenario for me. I've never had an employer that wasn't disappointed to see me go and didn't try to do something to keep me. I have never been for a job interview and not eventually been offered the job. On the few occasions where I have been out of work so have attended interviews for more than organisation concurrently, I have always ended the process by making a choice between the job offers on the table.
Being out of work does not concern me at all. If I didn't like my job I'd leave and find another one. How exactly does a three month notice period protect me? In my circumstances a three month notice period may theoretically protect both parties, but the reality is that it only exists to protect my employer.
Very few CONTRACTS run their full course, and operate to the letter of the contract wording throughout. Not working a three month notice period is often just a little bit of realism coming into play.
So let me ask you a question. If you were down to the final two in an interview process for a great new career move, with a significant salary increase and the new employer is struggling to make a decision over who to select. You get wind of the fact that your opposition is on one month and you are on three, and the new employer needed somebody quickly so that was enough to swing it, and they told you you needed to be able to start within a month, would you turn it down, just to "be polite" to your old employer?
I'd expect them to pay me for the amount of time I worked for.
If I was in a position where I had to give 3 months notice and my employer laid me off, I would expect 3 months salary, even if he told me not to come in the next day. They expect it from you, you should expect it from them.
In fact, when I left Nitro Helmets I gave 8 weeks notice to give my boss a decent amount of time to find a replacement. I was semi-retiring and not moving to a new position so could stay that long. The MD of the company told me I was on gardening leave for the 8 week period and paid me my full salary calculated from previous months commission based earnings for that time too. On my last day of gardening leave I drove my company car back to the office and took a train home in a 1st class carriage
What's good for the goose etc....
speedplay
21-04-10, 09:31 PM
You could always go sick ;)
Exactly what I thought.
So let me ask you a question. If you were down to the final two in an interview process for a great new career move, with a significant salary increase and the new employer is struggling to make a decision over who to select. You get wind of the fact that your opposition is on one month and you are on three, and the new employer needed somebody quickly so that was enough to swing it, and they told you you needed to be able to start within a month, would you turn it down, just to "be polite" to your old employer?
You speak to your current employer and try to negotiate a shorter notice period. The more senior the position, the more your new employer understands that you are likely to have a long notice period. 3 months is by no means the longest notice period you can have - a year is not uncommon for some positions - you may be on gardening leave, but you aren't working for a competitor.
I'm glad you are so employable, but not everybody is so lucky. 3 months notice gives an income stream to somebody who is not as employable as you for whatever reason but still has financial commitments.
Stating that contracts seldom run their course may have an element of truth, but is no reason to totally disregard them. I would never employ somebody who I thought would not honour their side of the bargain...
-Ralph-
22-04-10, 08:23 AM
You speak to your current employer and try to negotiate a shorter notice period. The more senior the position, the more your new employer understands that you are likely to have a long notice period
Agreed, which brings us full circle, back to the advice given which was "don't burn your bridges"
It's a negotiation, just like any other, but not having that negotiation because it's polite to work your notice period doesn't come into it in the real world.
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