No Indicators

[thedonal]

As it says- the indy circuit is not working at all.

At Spanner Man's suggestion, I had a look at the fuses, switch and the relay.

The switch looks mechanically sound, tested the fuse (swapped around with a working one), so I replaced the relay.

Still nothing. The relay delivered was labelled as a Bandit Relay (from Wemoto- bought as an SV unit), but given the design and fit, I would expect that they're the same design.

I guess it could still be the switch, or the wiring.

Any more suggestions?

Cheers Muchly

The D

[sunshine]

short out a connection in the switch with a small piece of wire that will show if there is any problems with it, if that doesnt do the trick start learning how a multi-meter works

[thedonal]

Yes- my metering skills are fairly inadequate!!

Cheers- will do.

[G]

Take them off and use your arms?

Technically legal... could become a pain though lol

[sunshine]

after connecting the power from the live side of the switch to each indicator, connect it to the lights live aswell as that will give you a idea of where the fault is, if on the cable, before the switch or after it, or confirm it is the switch. let us know your findings

[thedonal]

Nice one Sunshine.

G- good plan! Though use of arms can be a challenge when clutching in to shift down at a roundabout!

I felt very aware of the lack of indys on the commute home on Friday! Luckily, I can use my Bro's bike for a few days...

[thedonal]

Right- I've had the switch apart.

Mechanism is definitely sound. Nothing happens when bridging left contact with middle, or right contact with middle. (I'm assuming that the middle is one side of the circuit and the left/right contacts the other.

Don't have time tonight to test from the line to each indicator, but if one of those had a broken signal, surely it'd just flash double time, as when a lamp blows?

I did run a wire from the battery positive to the left and right contacts- the relative rear indicator came on solid for each, but not the front.

So- I'm guessing it's signal to the relay that is the problem.

[yorkie_chris]

Sounds like it, you got a multimeter?

[thedonal]

Yes- what setting do I put it on- I guess it'd be 20V DC?

Where do I connect the prongs?

Cheersy..

[thedonal]

Right- I'm going to attempt to look at this problem again shortly- I guess I'll be measuring resistance from the centre connector to the relay.

Any tips on this? Does it run from there straight into the relay? I've a feeling this is the most likely circuit to be broken.

The Haynes manual doesn't give a load of info on the indicator circuit.

Thanks

D

[yorkie_chris]

Wiring diagram is there in back.

Wire goes into relay from fusebox (short Y piece of wire .. orange and blue maybe something like that direct from SIGNAL fuse) ... this should have 12V

Wire comes out of relay, sky blue one IIRC... goes to indicator switch... should have 12v on/off current

This wire goes to connector to switchgear... check it here, short this wire out with brown or whatever it is to bypass the switch and see if indis light then



You just need to follow path of current and see where path is broken

[sunshine]

test it straight from the switch to the relay, if its broken it could be a loose connection in the back of the head light where all the cables are connected up, its easy enough to trace which cable it is as it should be the only of that colour connected to that block.
Your prongs should be small enough to fit in the connected block to see which it is, most like the run from the back of the head light to the relay, but thats the easiest to replace tbh.

[thedonal]

Cheers guys- there's signal from the switch to the lights. so it must be between the switch and the relay.

I shall have a gander shortly...

[thedonal]

So- had the right fairing off. Gave the wiring a wiggle around the block-connector and got indicators back. Gave the area a clean, tested a few times- seemed OK, then put the fairing back on.

Then the indicators went. And the dash- as the indicator fuse had blown (I thought this would be on the 'meter' fuse? Or is that just for the speedo?)

Replaced the fuse and tried again. Had the left indicators working OK. Tried the right indicator- nothing. The dashboard flashed with the relay going, but no turn signal light on the dash or indicators going. The indicators didn't work at all with the engine running and the fuse went again.

Now perplexed but it seems a little beyond my experience with wiring now. Could it just be a short? Seems more related to the right hand indicator than the left.

I may well need to see Spanner Man again...

[Stuuk1]

What do you have, a curvy or a pointy?

[thedonal]

It's curvy 99 SX.

[yorkie_chris]

Probably that connector under fairing is rotted to death

[thedonal]

The connector itself seemed OK, judging by the connectors on the male side- but Im tempted to get the switchgear from SV Spares- I assume it's the 610mm length. The indicators started working when I wiggled that side of the connector block...

[sunshine]

disconnect the plug, see if you get a reading from the indicator with no bulb in between live and earth there should be no reading if there is theres a short to earth and then one of the cables is going to need replacing remember to remove both bulbs.

[thedonal]

Do you mean the connector to the indicator itself, or the connector between the switchgear and the dash?

edit- this'll have to wait for a few days- until I can get some fuses...

[sunshine]

dont need a new fuse in using you multi meter take you indi bulbs, disconnected the plug behind the fairing/headlight and connect the probes of you multi meter to the connections of the bulbs there should be no resistance (no circuit being made) if there is a reading on your meter something is making contact with earth, but you will need some new fuses soon anyway

[thedonal]

Gotcha- cheers. Will have a look after work tomorrow.

[thedonal]

Hi,

In addition to the above, I think I'm going to get the switchgear off and test the wiring there in the (relative) comfort of my own home- rather than blindly replace it in the hope it'll solve the problem- that sort of activity can be expensive!-

In the event that some wiring needs to be replaced, which ampage wire should I use? The fuse is 15a but judging by the wire that's there and the 17 amp wire I've got indoors, I'd guess it's less than this.

[sunshine]

i use 1mm stranded thin wall and i have never had any problems, i used it for the ignition on a bike for a few weeks while waiting for some bigger to arrive and had no trouble.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php (http://www.vehiclewireproducts.co.uk) is where i get it from as well

[yorkie_chris]

Just because you did doesn't mean that is a good idea

[sunshine]

its fine for lighting not the ignition, i know that.
1mm thin wall is about 16/17 amps i think and fused to 15a means it will do the indicators

[thedonal]

Halfords only seem to do 5,8,10 and 17 amp wire. I'm assuming it'll be somewhere between 5 and 15?

[yorkie_chris]

indicators 21W

P = IV 21 = I x 12 I = 21/12 = 1.75A per lamp or 3.5A going through switch.

[sunshine]

if it uses a 15 amp fuse the cable should last longer than the fuse so you would need the 17 amp stuff.

So yc it should be on a 5amp fuse with 0.5mm cable then

[thedonal]

Wow- the 17a wire Halfords do is HUGE! Seems much bulkier than the wire on the loom.

Chris- does that not just cover 2 of the lamps? Surely, as there are 4 lamps, it'd be 7a? Though I suppose only 1 side's going at a time...

[yorkie_chris]

if it uses a 15 amp fuse the cable should last longer than the fuse so you would need the 17 amp stuff.

So yc it should be on a 5amp fuse with 0.5mm cable then

You can bend that rule a little IMO, since fuse will blow a lot faster than the wire will burn.
Obviously 2A signal wire on a 50A fuse is a bad idea though.

Have you actually isolated the problem yet then?

[thedonal]

No- I'm going to test the wiring on the RHS indicator and also the wiring from the switch to the block. It seemed to be around the block that was the issue- just not sure if it's the wiring between the switch and the block or the block and the next block behind the dash. (hope this makes sense!).

It seems more likely to be the wiring between the switch and the block. But I'll find out later... (at work atm)

[thedonal]

Right. Had another go tonight.

First problem- the outer sleeving on the RHS front indicator was split- as was the insulation around each wire. Taped them off. A fuse still blew.

Got the switchgear off- tested the continuity from terminal to block- fine. Got the connectors on the block out and gave them a quick file and cleaned the lot with contact cleaner.

Got it back together.

The indicators work with the engine off.

The indicators work with the engine on, lights on and idling.

The indicators stop when the revs above idle. But fuses seem to have stopped blowing.

So I'm now thinking there's a short somewhere between the connector block I've checked and the next part of the loom- I think this has been opened up before, when my dash failed. I'll have a look at that, probably tomorrow and if not, it'll have to go and see Spanner Man again.

[sunshine]

sounds weird, if its blowing at revs i would of said a cable is vibrating and touching a metal part somewhere but im not sure if th at would happen.

Are they standard indi's or aftermarket? how are they attached to loom? some people just twist the wires together to connect them, (very bad practice) and they can come loose and when you rev the cable touches something metal and then it earths and shorts out blowing the fuse. nice theory want to go check tonight?

check for nicks in the cable touching something, metal other than that im out of answers.

[thedonal]

They're standard indicators- connect via a plug- I assume this is standard wiring. Looks that way. It looks like someone had nicked the wiring with a pair of cutters (pic will follow).

The wiring above the headlights has been opened before (previous mechanic fixed something there when the dash went last year- I'm hoping they weren't setting themselves up for more lucrative loom repairs- probably not)- I'm going to open that up next and have a look- I think the wiring from the switchgear meets the lighting part of the loom around there- so will be checking/cleaning all of the plugs (new can of switch cleaner there- is going to get well used!) and seeing if any more wires have stripped insulation anwhere.

I'm coming down with a cold at just the wrong time- feeling rather unmotivated! Will be stripping all fairing from the bike tonight for starters so I can check all of the loom where it runs along the Frame and so on.

Also, I stripped down the indicator switch yesterday and completely cleaned it- but I've either got rid of some graphite lubricant (just looked like grime to me) or I need to check the assembly again, as it's not sprining back into place properly. Should the switch components be lubed?

Ta for all help and advice (also to Spanner Man who gave me more useful info on the blower yesterday). Will keep you posted!

[BBadger]

Make sure you havent over tightned the screw which holds the slider switch in place to tightly that could stop it from moving back and quick spray / grease wont hurt it.

[thedonal]

Could be that- but I did back it off a little when reassembling.

It's worst when the casing is fully tightened, so I'll have to have a look at where the wire is threaded- it's all a bit tight in there.

[thedonal]

You won't believe this...

[BBadger]

it wasnt plugged in?

You didnt have the ignition on ?

[thedonal]

:) Not that bad- I ain't THAT daft.

Often!

No- the first thing I did, before removing a single panel, was to put the original Diode/Relay box back in. Just out of sheer curiousity, not expecting it to make a jot of difference.

I have discovered that Bandit diode boxes are not compatible with SVs. It seems that Wemoto may have sent me the wrong part. I initially went with it because I thought "Hmmm- Bandit part, SV part- both perform the same function. They fit the same. So it'll work...". Apparently not!

I will be in touch with Wemoto- see if I can get it back to them and the money returned (worth a go!).

Incidentally- the siff (oo-er) switch issue was me. The wires weren't routed around the switch right, so the switch wasn't seated proply. Thought that was likely the case.

So- having done the happy dance (possibly prematurely at the time!) and taken her for a spin to Boxhill and back (some nice Ducatis and an E-Type Jag with the hood up- gorgeous!)-

Houston, we have bike!


So- Spanner Man- I may not be seeing you with more work for a bit longer (until next month, when she throws something else up!)- but I'll stop by for a cuppa soon so yourself and Wild Bill can have a giggle at my expense!

But above all- I've learned some things and feel more confident about going into the electrics in the future. So all's well!

It was wierd getting used to it again after borrowing my Bro's CBR400 for the last week or so!

[BBadger]

Soooooo what was wrong with the old relay then?

[thedonal]

Nuffink. It was just a strong possibility- always a risk that- buying stuff before you KNOW what's wrong (and what qualified mechanics are there for!).

To be honest- I'm surprised I didn't spot the nick in the indicator wire. That was all it was, really....!

[sunshine]

5 pages to find a nicked cable and your using the wrong relay???

haha brilliant, visual inspection always comes first with electrics :P

[BBadger]

Nuffink!

In that case change the last line of your sig:rolleyes:

[thedonal]

5 pages to find a nicked cable and your using the wrong relay???

haha brilliant, visual inspection always comes first with electrics :P

In that case change the last line of your sig:rolleyes:

:) Again- lots of lessons learned, so not a wasted experience!

Look- I can stand up and take it on the chin, right!

[BBadger]

Only joking.
Any news on wemoto and returning the bandit bit?

[thedonal]

I know!

Haven't contacted them yet- been a mad week at work and came down with a stinker of a cold over the last few days, so haven't really thought of it!

I'll email them tomorrow and see what I can swing. It's probably a bit late in the day, but yac'nonly ask!

It's nice to be back on The Yellow Peril though!